People Warned Against Forwarding PM's Doctored Audio Clip

[webfact]

"Which tape??? There is no such tape... What? A tape... never heard of....!"

Very possible scenario and not far from reality. MHO there's a trap.

The entire day I am thinking of WaterTapegate...

Edited September 1, 2009 by webfact

[animatic]

Have the PTP denounced the clip yet and offered full cooperation in the investigation? That would be what you would expect of a party innocent of anything rather than being fooled by A.N.Other. Oh plus the party would normally also apologise for any hurt the PM suffered due to its people being duped.

Or will it be the usual threaten defamamtion and try to make poltical hay from a clip many if not most believe came from them.

A theory....

Working on a few assumptions; the people involved; the time frame; the probable intention and motive.

It is entirely possible that PTP had absolutely no involvement with the manufacture of the tape recording, but they do have a pretty good idea as to who is responsible, and why it was made in the first place.

As with most incidents like this, the most obvious motive is revenge, with the hope that the victim gets embaressed in front of his or her peers, and even better yet, that the victim goes totally over the top, claiming all sorts of conspiracy theories, involving the police, accusing totally innocent people, and going straight to the national press with remarks about National Security.

From what has been reported, the initial recording became available on Thursday 27th August, so an assumption can be made that the tape was manufactured on Wednesday 26th August. From what has been reported, the tape itself is a collection of various soundtracks possibly coming from the Prime Ministers Sunday broadcasts.

The quality of the doctoring was not of an especially high standard, so all the individual(s) would need would be a copy of some of the recordings, a simple audio mixing program, some technical knowledge and a bit of time.

Interesting enough, the day before (I assumed) the tape was made, several highly placed individuals who definately had a source for the recordings, definitely had some technical knowledge, probably had at least some simple software, and found themselves with quite a bit of time on their hands were sacked for incompetance of a National tv station, because they repeatedly couldn't get the Prime Ministers show on the airwaves.

Maybe a motive for revenge...

Now if this theory has any merit.

• Would you be expecting PTP to be denouncing the tape, or laughing themselves silly ?
  
• Would you be expecting PTP to be offering full cooperation in an investigation or being totally bemused ?
  
• Would you be expecting PTP to be offering any form of apology for hurt feelings of the Prime Minister ?
  
• Would you be expecting PTP to be taking full advantage of the situation ?
  

Mind you. its far more fun to blame it on some machavalian plot by political rivals...

It was said one reason the PM's shows were botched was "red infiltration" at the stations,

or at least not cleared out after the 1st cockup, so boss man fired/shamed for not cleaning house

and so screwing up again...AND WITH

direct access, to original sources, and basic editing knowledge, and maybe a red leaning grudge too..

This is quite plausible. But not forgivable. Fits the time frame well.

Edited September 1, 2009 by animatic

[CrossBones]

Is it illegal to record conversations in Thailand?

I have a recording of a Farang trying to extort money from me as well as making threats and publicly accusing me of something I didnt do (the guys totally crazy). I was told not to show this to the police because its illegal to record conversations without their permission. This recording was made in a public place (a hospital). I made this recording on my mobile phone hands free kit.

Ive let the whole thing go, but this is one of my trump cards (along with some other information) I can use if he wants to pursue the matter and cause any more problems. Could i present this recording to the police or a lawyer as a prosecution, or use it as a defense in court?

Thanks

Edited September 1, 2009 by CrossBones

[Rumfoord]

you don't know the newest tool of the MICT. you don't know [sizefont="Arial"]GIN[/font][/size]. everything is possible with GIN and even much more.

A very selective and misleading snip of an incomprehensible google translation article that has nothing to do with private companies like SC Asset.

i suggest you take a second and closer look at the GIN device. that might give you the idea what the MICT is capable of. look and you will see: there are no limits! everything is possible and much more. unbelievable amazing.

[Insight]

Considering the file was out on Thursday with PTP MPs bigging it up it is amazing they have taken so long to come out with a coordinated response. According to some reports Jatuporn and Chalerm are still saying it is real (they seem in a n increasingly small mionority on that one) and they know the source. It seems not everyone is on the same page yet as wasnt it meant to be found at a bus stop by the poor innocent employees of a Shin company. You just know butter wouldnt melt in the mouths of anyone PTP/red or of the Shin clan (and we know because they tell us) and that 100% of everything they are accused of is total fabrication always (and we know because they said so). This is the victim party or should that be we are incapable of accepting repsonsibility for our own actions party.

Oh and for the record the other side arent any different but they arent as completely entetaining to watch as all the denials and statements about peacefulness arent coming from purely comical characters with such badly tarnished reputations as Chalerm and Jatuporn. Even Suthep cant compete with those dudes. The old Shin army chief who was pretty useless at his job is quite amusing too. Give us Jakrapob, at least with him you got some reasonable talk.

Great entertainment right now.

Hammered - once again, you're not wrong!

Click the next Bangkok Post article to see his (utterly absurd) comments. Looks like there'll be some laughs parliament today

/edit - his = Charlerm's comments. Leader of the opposition in waiting

Edited September 2, 2009 by Insight

[Insight]

PM cautions more charges could be laid

Writer: POST REPORTERS

Published: 2/09/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

Anyone involved in the production and dissemination of a recording of the prime minister allegedly encouraging security personnel to use violence will face charges of threatening national security, Abhisit Vejjajiva says.

The recording, first distributed as a CD and later sent out on the internet, was intended to cause chaos, hatred and violence in the country, he said.

Those found guilty of its dissemination would face penalties for the offence against him as well as a charge of posing a threat to national security.

-- Bangkok Post

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2307...s-could-be-laid

Edited September 2, 2009 by Insight

[animatic]

you don't know the newest tool of the MICT. you don't know [sizefont="Arial"]GIN[/font][/size]. everything is possible with GIN and even much more.

A very selective and misleading snip of an incomprehensible google translation article that has nothing to do with private companies like SC Asset.

i suggest you take a second and closer look at the GIN device. that might give you the idea what the MICT is capable of. look and you will see: there are no limits! everything is possible and much more. unbelievable amazing.

GINet is basically just a backbone internet structuring to allow government offices

to actually communicate between each other. Connecting bureaucrats desks so

they have a idea what's happening in other offices, instead of waiting for the mails to work.

Incredibly sinister...NOT!

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cac...hl=en&gl=th

" The government hub

GINet (www.gits.net.th) stands for Government Information Network. As the name implies,

GINet links government organization and agencies. GINet is under a semi-government

organization called Government Information Technology Services (GITS). Apart from operating

GINet, GITS is in charge of providing IT services to government agencies.

°

Capacity. At present, GINet has 21 POPs all over the country. It provides dial-up

and node services. On top of these, GINet has services such as Virtual Private

Network based on L2TP and IPSec.

°

Members. Currently, there are 30 government agencies connecting with GINet.

°

Applications. Mostly, each government agency has its own applications that run

on GINet. However, GINet also provides other applications such as web hosting, e-

mail and digital signature.

°

Future plans GINet is planning to upgrade its capacity to Gigabit at the backbone.

For the access part, it will cover every province by this February. "

So yet another attempt to make the government scary over computer technology.

If you are going to try this disinformation act, try to have as clue about what you are posting.

You really aren't that good at this.

It really only takes one decent hacker at one computer to find out dirt from barely secured computers and networks here.

MICT only seens to ban stuff based on tips from outsiders usually pols who's daughters ran across porn or wives

across bad argments against... LM or Pols being dumb.

Their active search is understaffed, and under trained.

GIN... well I prefer Tangeuray or Gilbeys, and I only worry about GIN,

when I have too much and need to drive home.

Edited September 2, 2009 by animatic

[Wuffy]

---

For those who believe that it is nearly impossible to trace back email, I can assure you that you can use any account from Thailand, even a hotmail US account, modify or fake any part of it the way you want, traces of who was sending it are recorded, including the IP address you were using to send it. If you send it from home, your ISP will have the exact details of who is behind that IP address and the cop can visit you extremely quickly. Even if you send it from an internet cafe or a PDA using a wireless, there will be enough data recorded to identify you, simply because since the Computer Crime Act has been implemented, the person who provides you with the connection MUST record your identity and a number of other data to identify you. If they fail, they inherit the criminal responsibility of your act.

I hope it makes sense and will stop some more naive people from believing that they can play with this, it is serious.

flg

Even with a proxy and a VPN with a 256 encryption?

VPN and 256 bit encryption is Irrelevant.

Those are designed to stop people from tapping into the transmission not obfuscate origin and end point.

Proxy? Well depends what records the proxy server keeps and which proxy you used.

[Wuffy]

you don't know the newest tool of the MICT. you don't know [sizefont="Arial"]GIN[/font][/size]. everything is possible with GIN and even much more.

A very selective and misleading snip of an incomprehensible google translation article that has nothing to do with private companies like SC Asset.

i suggest you take a second and closer look at the GIN device. that might give you the idea what the MICT is capable of. look and you will see: there are no limits! everything is possible and much more. unbelievable amazing.

GINet is basically just a backbone internet structuring to allow government offices

to actually communicate between each other. Connecting bureaucrats desks so

they have a idea what's happening in other offices, instead of waiting for the mails to work.

Incredibly sinister...NOT!

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cac...hl=en&gl=th

" The government hub

GINet (www.gits.net.th) stands for Government Information Network. As the name implies,

GINet links government organization and agencies. GINet is under a semi-government

organization called Government Information Technology Services (GITS). Apart from operating

GINet, GITS is in charge of providing IT services to government agencies.

°

Capacity. At present, GINet has 21 POPs all over the country. It provides dial-up

and node services. On top of these, GINet has services such as Virtual Private

Network based on L2TP and IPSec.

°

Members. Currently, there are 30 government agencies connecting with GINet.

°

Applications. Mostly, each government agency has its own applications that run

on GINet. However, GINet also provides other applications such as web hosting, e-

mail and digital signature.

°

Future plans GINet is planning to upgrade its capacity to Gigabit at the backbone.

For the access part, it will cover every province by this February. "

So yet another attempt to make the government scary over computer technology.

If you are going to try this disinformation act, try to have as clue about what you are posting.

You really aren't that good at this.

It really only takes one decent hacker at one computer to find out dirt from barely secured computers and networks here.

MICT only seens to ban stuff based on tips from outsiders usually pols who's daughters ran across porn or wives

across bad argments against... LM or Pols being dumb.

Their active search is understaffed, and under trained.

GIN... well I prefer Tangeuray or Gilbeys, and I only worry about GIN,

when I have too much and need to drive home.

Thanks for all the info.

But the original poster was trying to make light hearted comment.

He says look at the picture, because it looks like the people are gathering around a crystal Ball.

Using a system called GIN (Djinn = Genies, Like from a Lamp)

Of course the humous is now well dead since the joke had to be explained.

[jasreeve17]

So the synopsis for those two people at this point as I try to follow it is:

.

They claim the CD came from another person that got it from someone handing them out at a bus stop. That is vary possible, without witness or proof one would have to take there word on that one for now. The questions then becomes did they really believe it was a true clip from that point on and is dissemination of audio not known to be false at the time a crime? and is the person that made the cd the one that is really responsible for that happening?

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/teleco...er-pm-riot-tape

A police source said the two were not responsible for producing or doctoring the clip. They were only accused of forwarding the clip through the email system at SC Asset.

The police source said investigators suspected Ms Kanthima, who worked in the company's business relations section, had been given a CD containing the clip by a female colleague.

The colleague obtained the CD as copies were being distributed at a bus stop at Nonthaburi's Pak Kret district where she was boarding a passenger van to go to work.

The source said that when Ms Kanthima listened to the clip, she decided to share it with friends and asked Mr Somsak to re-format it as a computer file.

This is what the police are saying. The papers put front page news saying that employees of Shinawatra were reponsible. . And note that at the time of sending these two had no idea that it was fake...

Two thoughts cross my mind:

1) The one-sided implementation of laws / power.

2) The draconian clampdown on freedom of speech / information transfer.

Abhisit: beacon of democracy.

I've just completed reading a Rushdie book called SHAME. The synergy with present day Thailand is frightening.

Edited September 2, 2009 by jasreeve17

[Plus]

Ha ha, someone produces a forged record of Abhisit ordering a violent crackdown and people cry "freedom of speech".

[Samuian]

Ha ha, someone produces a forged record of Abhisit ordering a violent crackdown and people cry "freedom of speech".

It's the "Master's" signature - turnin, twisting, manipulating,

the truth - all the way to lying, which is then masked as "honest mistake"..

Deceit, deceptiveness all along of this con Artist's and his servants path!

Edited September 2, 2009 by Samuian

[RKASA]

Ha ha, someone produces a forged record of Abhisit ordering a violent crackdown and people cry "freedom of speech".

No, I am not saying its an issue of freedom of speech.  I am not saying they had a right spread false information, only that it may have been a mistake with these two and really unfair to target them for that.  Its about not arresting everyone in site for something someone else is responsible for and doing and doing a full investigation first.  They will not be joining Thaksin on the run.  They can call them back later if need be.  I am sure the two won't do it anymore.  No need for this government to act like its being run by Stalin.

As I have posted else where  "the clip is a disgusting piece of work"

I am sure its breaking the law to knowingly be part of releasing it, but find who is and who made it, and try not to burn down the village looking.

[jasreeve17]

Ha ha, someone produces a forged record of Abhisit ordering a violent crackdown and people cry "freedom of speech".

Once again your blinkers prevent you from seeing, and your snippet abstracts further from the truth...

I'm not talking about an alleged (as Abby said) forgery, I'm talking about the aggressive clampdown on people that simply forwarded an email attachment; it's another politically motivated onslaught conducted upon the people by an army installed 'government'. Freedom of speech was poor under MrT (and I complained about it then), under Abby it has plummeted downhill at a frightful rate.

If it is proved a forgery then of course the people that made it should be prosectuted inline with normal legal practice...

[Rumfoord]

Ha ha, someone produces a forged record of Abhisit ordering a violent crackdown and people cry "freedom of speech".

It's the "Master's" signature - turnin, twisting, manipulating,

the truth - all the way to lying, which is then masked as "honest mistake"..

Deceit, deceptiveness all along of this con Artist's and his servants path!

about who and what you are talking about? why don't name names and bring evidence?

[ThNiner]

I'm talking about the aggressive clampdown on people that simply forwarded an email attachment; it's

But that simple forwarding of false statement that could harm the national security and not to mention a person's life (Abhisit's), was apparently against the law. So you suggest this gov't ought to run the country by not enforcing the rule of law as long as the reds can do whatever they please? That's your democracy? Nice.

[Siripon]

Ha ha, someone produces a forged record of Abhisit ordering a violent crackdown and people cry "freedom of speech".

It's the "Master's" signature - turnin, twisting, manipulating,

the truth - all the way to lying, which is then masked as "honest mistake"..

Deceit, deceptiveness all along of this con Artist's and his servants path!

about who and what you are talking about? why don't name names and bring evidence?

That'a the problem Rumfoord, when someome has told as many lies as Thaksin, ie 'share hiding an honest mistake, my kids selling to Themasek, not me, I won't dissolve Parliament, Somchai probably disappeared because he argued with his wife,' etc, then suspicion falls on that person for every wrongdoing. It's a form of karma. Nobody would ever say,' Mr Chuan is behind that!' He's too decent to, you reap what you sow.

[Plus]

That audio clip has been spread all over the place, uploaded on the Internet and what not.

Out of thousands that have been involved in this only people who have been arrested (and released) are the guys who started it all.

They can claim they got it from someone else and they didn't know it was doctored, and it will probably stand in court, but at this moment the police wants to scare them into giving up the source. Never seen this tactic with the small fry used in the movies?

I have no idea what was allegedly going on in their heads when they heard this recording. If they thought they were whistle blowers on Abhisit, it was their responsibility to check it out first. If they thought it was "fun", just like forwarding videos of showering neighbours, there's a law for that.

Next time think twice when you decide to spread something so potentially damaging to any other party, be it your ex-girlfriend or a country's Prime Minister.

[ThNiner]

That audio clip has been spread all over the place, uploaded on the Internet and what not.

Out of thousands that have been involved in this only people who have been arrested (and released) are the guys who started it all.

They can claim they got it from someone else and they didn't know it was doctored, and it will probably stand in court, but at this moment the police wants to scare them into giving up the source. Never seen this tactic with the small fry used in the movies?

I have no idea what was allegedly going on in their heads when they heard this recording. If they thought they were whistle blowers on Abhisit, it was their responsibility to check it out first. If they thought it was "fun", just like forwarding videos of showering neighbours, there's a law for that.

Next time think twice when you decide to spread something so potentially damaging to any other party, be it your ex-girlfriend or a country's Prime Minister.

I watched a news show on The Nation channel this morning and a news anchorman made an interesting point regarding the way these two suspected forwarded the doctored clip. He said, usually when people forward emails, they forward to people they know everywhere. But these two suspects only forwarded the clip to SC Asset employees only. He said it's pretty strange...and I agree with him.

[Insight]

^ Was there an invoice sent along with the attachment?

[ThNiner]

^ Was there an invoice sent along with the attachment?

Possibly.

[cmsally]

That audio clip has been spread all over the place, uploaded on the Internet and what not.

Out of thousands that have been involved in this only people who have been arrested (and released) are the guys who started it all.

They can claim they got it from someone else and they didn't know it was doctored, and it will probably stand in court, but at this moment the police wants to scare them into giving up the source. Never seen this tactic with the small fry used in the movies?

I have no idea what was allegedly going on in their heads when they heard this recording. If they thought they were whistle blowers on Abhisit, it was their responsibility to check it out first. If they thought it was "fun", just like forwarding videos of showering neighbours, there's a law for that.

Next time think twice when you decide to spread something so potentially damaging to any other party, be it your ex-girlfriend or a country's Prime Minister.

I watched a news show on The Nation channel this morning and a news anchorman made an interesting point regarding the way these two suspected forwarded the doctored clip. He said, usually when people forward emails, they forward to people they know everywhere. But these two suspects only forwarded the clip to SC Asset employees only. He said it's pretty strange...and I agree with him.

There's nothing strange about that, sent on an internal network such as an internal memo. If you are sending from work then less likely to be personal contacts if you separate your personal contacts.

[ThNiner]

There's nothing strange about that, sent on an internal network such as an internal memo. If you are sending from work then less likely to be personal contacts if you separate your personal contacts.

Ahh I see. You are saying the forwarded email was meant to be all about BUSINESS, not personal or just something fun or interesting to be shared among friends. Right?

[animatic]

And of course then, someone they sent it too, sent it to PTP offices, and THEY ran with it

and emailed it to the red and not sympathetic press like a press release, and now deny that.

Andf then the PTP leaders started trumpeting it as FACT... until Abhisit and police started a

LEGAL search and destroy mission, and their lawyer advisers said they were in the soup now.

QUICK!!!! back pedal furiously.

Makes no difference legally. It was obviously by most reports a shoddy hack job,

and THAT alone should have made ANY thinking person suspect it's truth...

except maybe those Truth Today people who would have drooled so hard they didn't think.

[Rumfoord]

Next time think twice when you decide to spread something so potentially damaging to any other party, be it your ex-girlfriend or a country's Prime Minister.

what happen if you spread some BS or potentially damaging whatever about a country's ex-Prime Minister?

[hammered]

That audio clip has been spread all over the place, uploaded on the Internet and what not.

Out of thousands that have been involved in this only people who have been arrested (and released) are the guys who started it all.

They can claim they got it from someone else and they didn't know it was doctored, and it will probably stand in court, but at this moment the police wants to scare them into giving up the source. Never seen this tactic with the small fry used in the movies?

I have no idea what was allegedly going on in their heads when they heard this recording. If they thought they were whistle blowers on Abhisit, it was their responsibility to check it out first. If they thought it was "fun", just like forwarding videos of showering neighbours, there's a law for that.

Next time think twice when you decide to spread something so potentially damaging to any other party, be it your ex-girlfriend or a country's Prime Minister.

I watched a news show on The Nation channel this morning and a news anchorman made an interesting point regarding the way these two suspected forwarded the doctored clip. He said, usually when people forward emails, they forward to people they know everywhere. But these two suspects only forwarded the clip to SC Asset employees only. He said it's pretty strange...and I agree with him.

There's nothing strange about that, sent on an internal network such as an internal memo. If you are sending from work then less likely to be personal contacts if you separate your personal contacts.

If it was traced back from what the Dems had passed to them it left the company somehow. I would guess one of the e-mails the Dems got was traced back to origin and these two were likely at the start of the chain or close to origin as sometimes weaker links are questioned first. Apparently a few more employees are now being questioned.

By the way, my personal experience of Thai companies is that a lot of persoanl e-mailing is done from company.

By the way two, on Thai forums there are some far more interesting stories of how this came into Dem hands and rather more quickly than was planned. One is very amusing and my favorite for being the truth which of course in the belief based whacky world of Thai politics is far more important.

[SHYTALK]

Another perfect example of why thailand has gone down the toilet.

Instead of putting the effort into solving all the many problems and issues of the place, what do you get, continued corruption.

The elite and dems just continue to demonstrate to the international stage what a set of self centred, corrupt, faschist buffoons they are.

All form a line for "Goose Step" practice.

[jasreeve17]

That audio clip has been spread all over the place, uploaded on the Internet and what not.

Out of thousands that have been involved in this only people who have been arrested (and released) are the guys who started it all.

They can claim they got it from someone else and they didn't know it was doctored, and it will probably stand in court, but at this moment the police wants to scare them into giving up the source. Never seen this tactic with the small fry used in the movies?

I have no idea what was allegedly going on in their heads when they heard this recording. If they thought they were whistle blowers on Abhisit, it was their responsibility to check it out first. If they thought it was "fun", just like forwarding videos of showering neighbours, there's a law for that.

Next time think twice when you decide to spread something so potentially damaging to any other party, be it your ex-girlfriend or a country's Prime Minister.

Complete speculation and different from what the police and Abhisit have stated...

You always shamelessly alter the facts. During my several years on this forum you are the absolute worst at this habit; above is a simple example. It's pathetic...

[RKASA]

So it was an inter office gossip clip that they e mailed around the local Intranet in the company and not on the internet.  Someone else put it out on the Internet?  Its a ?? not a statement.

[jasreeve17]

I'm talking about the aggressive clampdown on people that simply forwarded an email attachment; it's

But that simple forwarding of false statement that could harm the national security and not to mention a person's life (Abhisit's), was apparently against the law. So you suggest this gov't ought to run the country by not enforcing the rule of law as long as the reds can do whatever they please? That's your democracy? Nice.

False statement - you seem to know more than the police, Abhisit or anyone else.

Could - democracy doesn't survive long with these conditionals.

"this g..." Oh Please. The reds get arrested for throwing eggs. The Yellows shoot, run over, invade airports...

I simply want to see consistent and equal implementation of the law, as well as a stop to the current clampdown of civil liberties / freedom of speech.

Making this an anti-red debate is plain stupid. Any foolish red shirt, yellow shirt, blue shirt or any other colour shirt that just keeps on ranting their blinkered BS has lost the plot. It's time to wake up and smell the tank fumes...