How Many Of Thailand's Prime Ministers Were/are Of Chinese Decent?

[EvilDrSomkid]

Now I am sure, LaoPo. You are Dutch. Not that it matters, but it was something which was playing in my head.

I am not envious of people who have "made" it. Lets make that clear. What does piss me off is if those same people push others, in this case Thai, but also us "westerners", out and repress them.

Does it surprise you there is strong anti-Chinese sentiment in the world? The PRC will rule the planet effectively, now by proxy in North Korea and Burma, in not many years. The Chinese are buying up African mineral resources, they own the USA effectively and are seriously ramping up their Naval forces. Do you deny this?

Do you not think that the PRC and (expat) Chinese are not a threat to the rest of the people on this world? What the country has accomplished since 1976 is amazing. I have never been to the PRC. I don't have any plans of going either, not because of something ridiculous like hatred, but it's just not on my plans right now.

But the Chinese do scare the shit out of me. Because they are taking over the world and I do not consider them benevolent rulers.

There is no nation in the world that has the strength nor will to oppose them.

[Heng]

Resistance is futile.

[EffectiveAnger]

What is "a flood of Chinese"; 1.000's, 10.000's, 100.000's ? apart from the fact that "two generations back...." is nonsense since migration in this Asian area is happening since thousands of years and not since 2 generations.

I agree that the "flood of Chinese" comment was not only biased, but also incorrect when combined with "two generations back..."

"The Chinese population in Thailand jumped from 230,000 in 1825 to 792,000 by 1910. By 1932, approximately 12.2% of the population of Thailand was Chinese.^[15]However, early Chinese immigration consisted almost entirely of Chinese men who married Thai women. Children of such intermarriages were aptly called Sino-Thai^[16] or known as Luk-jin (ลูกจีน) in Thai.^[17] This tradition of Chinese-Thai intermarriage declined when large numbers of Chinese women began to emigrate into Thailand in the early 20th century."

A mass migration of Chinese starting from around the turn of the century to 1932 and thereafter? And the intermarriage with Thai women tactic also declined too at about the same time. Of course we could use more data for precise numbers.

[onethailand]

One useful thing Field Marshal Pibulsongkarm did was to simplify Thai spelling, cutting out odd letters that were not pronounced. Unfortunately when he fell from power they reverted back to traditional spelling.

A very good book on the Chinese diaspora is "Lords of the Rim" by Sterling Seagrave.

Yes indeed, that is a super book.

When I first came to Thailand, someone taught me a very simple way of distinguishing Thais from immigrants - if they have 4 or more syllables in their name, they're not ethnic Thai, with rare exception.

The other thing I remember from somewhere was that one of the Kings said something along the lines of "if you want to be Thai, you must have a Thai name". Thus the Chinese immigrants, in a bid to assimilate, all took Thai names - but all the shorter names -already belonged to other Thais.

I do believe that, in order to become Thai, you still require the permission of the King who will grant you a name - so the above story has some basis somewhere.

And someone else mentioned something about the original Chinese name being incorporated - that's correct, it's also a tip-off - but Banharn's last name is an adaptation rather than incorporating the original "Ma" into the name. Still, whoever caught that was sharp, that's one I definitely wasn't sure about (except for the number of syllables).

The above are my observations - they may not necessarily be 100% fact as I haven't gone out of my way to verify them.

[LaoPo]

Now I am sure, LaoPo. You are Dutch. Not that it matters, but it was something which was playing in my head.

I am not envious of people who have "made" it. Lets make that clear. What does piss me off is if those same people push others, in this case Thai, but also us "westerners", out and repress them.

Does it surprise you there is strong anti-Chinese sentiment in the world? The PRC will rule the planet effectively, now by proxy in North Korea and Burma, in not many years. The Chinese are buying up African mineral resources, they own the USA effectively and are seriously ramping up their Naval forces. Do you deny this?

Do you not think that the PRC and (expat) Chinese are not a threat to the rest of the people on this world? What the country has accomplished since 1976 is amazing. I have never been to the PRC. I don't have any plans of going either, not because of something ridiculous like hatred, but it's just not on my plans right now.

But the Chinese do scare the shit out of me. Because they are taking over the world and I do not consider them benevolent rulers.

There is no nation in the world that has the strength nor will to oppose them.

It's amazing but with a small hammer you hit an enormous nail right on the head ..your own head that is because you speak out of FEAR; the same fear the west has about and for China BECAUSE they know so little about this phenomenon.

1. No, it doesn't surprise me that there's an anti-Chinese sentiment (also in Thailand).

Why it doesn't surprise me ? : F E A R, fed by western press, especially financial and economical press agencies combined with the GREAT WALL of the unknown in China and it's people.

I experience that already for more than 30 years, coming to China and trying to explain the country and it's people to the ones who've never been there.

Do you think the Chinese in the streets of China are any different from you and me ? 1.338.000.000 people ? That's 1.3 Billion and some 38 million more (July 2009 est)? No they're not.

I know, since I've seen and experienced the enormous changes since 30 years and the only thing those people want is progress in their ability to survive, live peacefully and work hard for their families to create a nice life and if possible a good home and maybe....just maybe a car also in the far future. For many of us it's absolutely normal to own a car but for Chinese it's a dream.

2. I have yet to visit any other country on this planet where people work so hard and so many hours as in China.

That explains the success of many Chinese. They work harder and longer than the average worker in any country, including Thailand.

On top of that (and nobody mentioned it yet in this topic) they SAVE money and on average more than 30% (but many much more) of their daily/weekly/monthly income!!! They are, by far, the highest savers of income in the world.

3. No, I don't think that the PRC and/or (expat) Chinese is/are a threat to whomever; name me one country abroad where the Chinese as a group caused serious riots, uproar, fights; they're NOT interested in such as they're working and saving money whilst others complain.

Building up their army, navy, air force ? Sure, of course; China is a super power and they've learned their lesson in the late 1930's when Japan invaded them and murdered hundreds of thousands of civilians (I'm not even talking soldiers here).

What do you expect...that only the large countries in the west or Middle east may build up their armed forces ? Russia ? Come on!

And, about your "buying up" resources in the world. No, I don't deny that as much as I don't deny that China owns about 2 Trillion of American assets (bonds in particular). But where did that money come from ? Right, from profits made because the Americans wanted the Chinese products, right there around the corner in Wal-Mart.

When I read such articles, mainly from European, American and Ozzie press I have to smile because the other side-guys of the coin from those same countries in the west are flying business class to China -the same day that article is published- to buy more and more and more products to be produced by the Chinese.

They want, demand those products and I know as a black-and-white fact from my own experiences that those same buyers are squeezing the Chinese for the best possible prices.

BUT, to make and construct all these products, that the West wants, MATERIALS are needed. And where do these commodities come from ? Right, and if they wouldn't buy those resources, commodities, oil, gas, wheat, grain....who would be able to deliver the products the west wants ? Right!

In fact it's the West demanding that China buys those resources but on the other they (like yourself) complain about it.

It's a Perpetuum Mobile the world is circling in and there's no way anybody can escape from. We need each other.

I recognize the same fear amongst westerners -and Thai- about China as I did before when I noticed the same fear in the 60's when everybody was laughing their brains off when the Japanese started to deliver cars to the west ...copyists they were.

They copied everything, remember ? Radios, television, cameras, toys you name it. And now ? You tell me.

Watch out: the Chinese cars will be coming in a few years. Warren Buffett bought a substantial stake in a large mainland Chinese battery manufacturer -BYD- (start Googling) and this factory will boost the world with electrical cars. (producing already)

Back on topic:

I know what's going on in this topic and before anybody starts screaming I suggest that they look how and what I said before about the elite, the PAD, Thaksin and the rest of the people behind the velvet curtains, who are controlling this country. I wasn't so friendly about those people.

But of course they're defending their assets, powers, money, companies, shares and all the rest. And they will use all possible powerplay to defend teir own backyards. Would you defend your own house and backyard, your wife, your children for which you worked so hard; maybe even your Mia Noi(s) ?

I realize and know that the country is ruled by a few hundred very powerful families and many of them have Chinese blood.

But to blame "China or the Chinese and/or Thai-Chinese PM's" exclusively for the present situation, since the 1930's, in Thailand is silly.

If you or more members would do so, we would have to discuss the role(s) of the unmentionable/unspeakable highest also but that's out of the question; we all know that but it would be more fair than to -just- blame people with Chinese blood, but, I know: not allowed!

There's a lot more to it.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

What is "a flood of Chinese"; 1.000's, 10.000's, 100.000's ? apart from the fact that "two generations back...." is nonsense since migration in this Asian area is happening since thousands of years and not since 2 generations.

I agree that the "flood of Chinese" comment was not only biased, but also incorrect when combined with "two generations back..."

"The Chinese population in Thailand jumped from 230,000 in 1825 to 792,000 by 1910. By 1932, approximately 12.2% of the population of Thailand was Chinese.^[15]However, early Chinese immigration consisted almost entirely of Chinese men who married Thai women. Children of such intermarriages were aptly called Sino-Thai^[16] or known as Luk-jin (ลูกจีน) in Thai.^[17] This tradition of Chinese-Thai intermarriage declined when large numbers of Chinese women began to emigrate into Thailand in the early 20th century."

A mass migration of Chinese starting from around the turn of the century to 1932 and thereafter? And the intermarriage with Thai women tactic also declined too at about the same time. Of course we could use more data for precise numbers.

I see you did some homework and got your facts from Wiki

I like to see facts in perspective when one talks numbers:

1825: 230.000 Chinese population in Thailand(according to your figures, ok?) = 4.9% of total pop.

1825: 4.7 ca. million people in Thailand

1910: 792.000 Chinese population in Thailand = 9% of total pop.

1910: 8 million people in Thailand

1932: 1,5 million Chinese according to your 12.2% (of 12.5 million- below) = 12% of total pop.

1932: 12.5 million people in Thailand

2009: 9.1 million Chinese; being the 14% of which the CIA and other official Thai sources speak.***

2009: 65 million people in Thailand as of est. July 2009

Data from:

http://www.populstat.info/Asia/thailanc.htm

and:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...ok/geos/th.html

Conclusion -IMO -

If the Chinese have so much influence in business and politics in Thailand, knowing that their ancestors, great grandfathers and -mothers came to this country, dead poor.... what have the Thai been doing in the meantime, knowing they were also dead poor ?

If the average Chinese has more money than his Thai counterpart, what's the difference that created the difference ?

I think most of us know.

*** I would like to know the criteria the CIA and/or other official Thai sources handle when they decide to call someone in Thailand "Chinese".

Would be interesting to learn.

LaoPo

Edited September 2, 2009 by LaoPo

[Bukseeda]

I have no idea how this topic became a rant on anti and non-anti chinese. Or maybe i do know.

Anyway, for the more intellectual among us, I'll try to carry on.

Regarding chinese heritage, chinese ancestry, i think we have missed the point here. As many have alluded to, there has been Chinese migration to Thailand/Siam for hundreds of years with certain periods of mass migration for various reasons. As a result a large proportion of Thais will have some Chinese ancestry.

However, there is a large minority of the population, who identify specifically as Thai-Chinese. And that's a fact.

[Bukseeda]

On another note, Lao Po has alluded to his /her distaste of socialism. And brings up the tired old argument of the poor envying the "smart, hard-working rich".

What about good old meritocracy? You're quite right the focus should not be on someone's race but to postulate the argument that the wealthy are only there because of their smartness and hard-work is to insult the intelligence of us all. Are you suggesting that those at the top of society whether it be in Thailand or elsewhere DON'T use their influence to ensure THEIR children have the best opportunities, that THEIR companies don't get the government contracts? Give me a break...

[LaoPo]

On another note, Lao Po has alluded to his /her distaste of socialism. And brings up the tired old argument of the poor envying the "smart, hard-working rich".

What about good old meritocracy? You're quite right the focus should not be on someone's race but to postulate the argument that the wealthy are only there because of their smartness and hard-work is to insult the intelligence of us all.

Are you suggesting that those at the top of society whether it be in Thailand or elsewhere DON'T use their influence to ensure THEIR children have the best opportunities, that THEIR companies don't get the government contracts?

Give me a break...

If you would have read my posts properly, NO; I didn't suggest so. On the contrary.

In one of my last posts I wrote:

"But of course they're defending their assets, powers, money, companies, shares and all the rest. And they will use all possible powerplay to defend teir own backyards. Would you defend your own house and backyard, your wife, your children for which you worked so hard; maybe even your Mia Noi(s) ? "

Not only you or I would do the same but the 100% autochtonous/indigenous Thai who became rich and successful would do the same also; even a local stall owner would defend his property at all costs.

Nothing odd here and of course they will use THEIR companies to try and get - and bribe - government contracts, if they see the chance; I didn't say they wouldn't try and do so.

I would love to see meritocracy work but does it in reality?

LaoPo

Edited September 2, 2009 by LaoPo

[Bukseeda]

On another note, Lao Po has alluded to his /her distaste of socialism. And brings up the tired old argument of the poor envying the "smart, hard-working rich".

What about good old meritocracy? You're quite right the focus should not be on someone's race but to postulate the argument that the wealthy are only there because of their smartness and hard-work is to insult the intelligence of us all.

Are you suggesting that those at the top of society whether it be in Thailand or elsewhere DON'T use their influence to ensure THEIR children have the best opportunities, that THEIR companies don't get the government contracts?

Give me a break...

If you would have read my posts properly, NO; I didn't suggest so. On the contrary.

In one of my last posts I wrote:

"But of course they're defending their assets, powers, money, companies, shares and all the rest. And they will use all possible powerplay to defend teir own backyards. Would you defend your own house and backyard, your wife, your children for which you worked so hard; maybe even your Mia Noi(s) ? "

Not only you or I would do the same but the 100% autochtonous/indigenous Thai who became rich and successful would do the same also; even a local stall owner would defend his property at all costs.

Nothing odd here.

LaoPo

You said: But that's old news since smart, hard working people who became rich, Chinese or non-Chinese, all over the world, have always been envied by the poor(er).

America is one of the few nations on earth that is proud of it's people who "made" it.

It was in one of your older posts.

If you're suggesting, and correct me if i'm wrong, that we would all use any power we had to influence, defend etc. then that doesn't necessarily suggest that the same people are smart and hard-working, does it? Wouldn't corrupt nepotists be a better description?

Edited September 2, 2009 by Bukseeda

[LaoPo]

You said: But that's old news since smart, hard working people who became rich, Chinese or non-Chinese, all over the world, have always been envied by the poor(er).

America is one of the few nations on earth that is proud of it's people who "made" it.

It was in one of your older posts.

If you're suggesting, and correct me if i'm wrong, that we would all use any power we had to influence, defend etc. then that doesn't necessarily suggest that the same people are smart and hard-working, does it? Wouldn't corrupt nepotists be a better description?

Yes, I wrote so and is it incorrect what I wrote ? I don't think so.

I wasn't talking about intelligence since I know that the intelligentsia, intellectuals if you wish, are more interested in "creating" knowledge, books, culture etc. etc. rather than to chase money. But intellectuality alone doesn't necessarily bring (more) money also.

The world is complex and we need all kinds of social classes, intellectuals, business people, artists, musicians, politicians, workers, service people, also in Thailand but yes, (corrupt) nepotists for a certain group of people who "made it" is a good description.

We can bash upon those people whatever we want but the major problem in Thailand is still the lack in superb and very high education.

The elite is very well aware of this and send their offspring abroad to the best possible universities and thus the Perpetuum Mobile still runs and will continue to run if nothing changes.

The change in Thailand has to come from WITHIN but I'm afraid it will take a long time and since this topic is about PM's with Chinese blood I have to say that the mainland Chinese are a lot more intelligent since high education and studies at university studies are a high priority in Beijing.

6 million (!) students graduate each year and that is in China alone; not the ones studying and graduating abroad.

In the past 2 weeks, 10 million prospect students had to do a very difficult exam to try and reach admittance to one of China's universities; many will fail but the best brains will continue to study.

If we take the difference in population into consideration and know that Thailand is 20.5 smaller than China -qua population-, Thailand should deliver about 292,000 graduating students per year to follow the same track as China in order to try and speed the process of development in Thailand. And I'm not discussing the difficulty level/grade of the students in China versus Thailand.

Are there 292.000 students, graduating in Thailand, per year ?

I don't know.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

I have no idea how this topic became a rant on anti and non-anti chinese. Or maybe i do know.

Some people are smarter than others ...

Anyway, for the more intellectual among us,

I'm quite surprised you're still here after this line ...

Regarding chinese heritage, chinese ancestry, i think we have missed the point here. As many have alluded to, there has been Chinese migration to Thailand/Siam for hundreds of years with certain periods of mass migration for various reasons. As a result a large proportion of Thais will have some Chinese ancestry.

However, there is a large minority of the population, who identify specifically as Thai-Chinese. And that's a fact.

Who identify them ? They identify themselves ? Or is it some kind or discrimination ? From who ?

I asked that same question, here, in the last sentence:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-s-P...53#entry2985353

LaoPo

[Heng]

Are you suggesting that those at the top of society whether it be in Thailand or elsewhere DON'T use their influence to ensure THEIR children have the best opportunities, that THEIR companies don't get the government contracts? Give me a break...

They do exactly that (of course, without the gov't contracts) at the middle area, and bottom end of society as well. Over generations, that means a rise to the top or at least forward momentum.

I've never had a shot at a gov't contract, my kids likely won't either, but perhaps my grandkids. When one's family line finally starts thinking/working/planning like that, you have a chance to run parallel and finally compete.

[littlebigboss]

As for identifying i meant there are Thai people who call themselves Thai-Chinese. Is it a fact that they call themselves that or not. I'll answer shall i? Yes it is.

I've a few years experience working for an international company, based until recently in China but dealing also with our Thai colleagues. It has always mystified my Chinese colleagues that our Thai colleagues, despite their obvious Chinese origin, were not able to speak Chinese, like other Chinese from the diaspora. TheThai's answer ? Because we are Thai, not Chinese !

It's my feeling that the younger generation is rediscovering their Chinese origin and learning Chinese, but for economical reason, not cultural. And very few of them compare to other S E Asia countries

[Heng]

But that's old news since smart, hard working people who became rich, Chinese or non-Chinese, all over the world, have always been envied by the poor(er).

If you're suggesting, and correct me if i'm wrong, that we would all use any power we had to influence, defend etc. then that doesn't necessarily suggest that the same people are smart and hard-working, does it? Wouldn't corrupt nepotists be a better description?

Human nature and semantics. It's success on your own "merit" when you're the one who is successful. Folks also call it being "smart and hard working" when they are on the inside looking out, or in many cases when they are successful as well and can appreciate and identify these traits in others. As for "nepotism," in my experience, that's what it's called when you don't have any successful family members (not even in your extended family by several degrees of separation in any direction) at all, and those who are never call, don't really want to take your calls, and never write... and those with successful enterprises keep a firm grip on what they have built, giving you little chance to gain a foothold. And why would they? Would you?

Kind of like 'xenophobia' when you're the one doing visa runs, the law doesn't favor you, etc... but it's really called 'prudent protectionism, with the laws making good sense' when it's your own country and you're again on the inside.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Heng

[thaihome]

....

Are there 292.000 students, graduating in Thailand, per year ?

I don't know.

LaoPo

Probably closer to 400,000 graduate each year from Thai universities. Some people think this is too many, China is probably going to have the same problem.

Graduates flood labour market: The unsolvable problems

TH

[EffectiveAnger]

There have been some people here who’ve made the assertion that the Chinese have become successful not only in Thailand, but the world over and the reason being given is that they are (without debate) more honest, “hard working” people than most. I challenge this assumption. It is not a fact, but rather a biased opinion and broad overgeneralization. Moreover, if you read the links I posted, you’ll see exactly how the Chinese have come into power in Thailand through Triads and illicit or criminal activities as well as nepotism and favoritism.

[littlebigboss]

....

Are there 292.000 students, graduating in Thailand, per year ?

I don't know.

LaoPo

Probably closer to 400,000 graduate each year from Thai universities. Some people think this is too many, China is probably going to have the same problem.

Graduates flood labour market: The unsolvable problems

TH

Dumbest article ever ! At a personal level, the higher the education, the more choice you have. On a economical level, lowering the salary of the work force make the country more competitive on the international level.

Honestly, it's a worldwide first that someone complain a country creates too many educated people But somehow, it doesn't surprise me that the article has been written by a Thai. And I'm sure I can guess at 99% his political orientation. No wonder an increasing portion of the population is willing to shake the institutions that can produce such "thinkers".

[Heng]

There have been some people here who’ve made the assertion that the Chinese have become successful not only in Thailand, but the world over and the reason being given is that they are (without debate) more honest, “hard working” people than most. I challenge this assumption. It is not a fact, but rather a biased opinion and broad overgeneralization. Moreover, if you read the links I posted, you’ll see exactly how the Chinese have come into power in Thailand through Triads and illicit or criminal activities as well as nepotism and favoritism.

I know I'll likely favor my first born slightly more. Maybe even to the point that when it comes time, he'll get a few more pieces of property than my second born. Is that what you mean? Also, you seem to have the inside track, how does one get involved in a Triad, I think that would be totally badass if it's anything like all of those HK movies.

Funny how you retort to one generalization with one of your own. Surely yours is more "correct" because you thought of it in your own head. Human nature.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Heng

[EffectiveAnger]

since this topic is about PM's with Chinese blood I have to say that the mainland Chinese are a lot more intelligent since high education and studies at university studies are a high priority in Beijing.

Absurd ... and racist.

[littlebigboss]

There have been some people here who've made the assertion that the Chinese have become successful not only in Thailand, but the world over and the reason being given is that they are (without debate) more honest, "hard working" people than most. I challenge this assumption. It is not a fact, but rather a biased opinion and broad overgeneralization. Moreover, if you read the links I posted, you'll see exactly how the Chinese have come into power in Thailand through Triads and illicit or criminal activities as well as nepotism and favoritism.

Your nic says it all.

Anger management could help !

Furthermore I would like to have the mods opinion regarding obviously racist and discriminatory posts.

[Heng]

Nothing wrong with a little venom in their words. It shows fight and spirit. Important to check if they have good teeth though too, na.

[Moonrakers]

There have been some people here who've made the assertion that the Chinese have become successful not only in Thailand, but the world over and the reason being given is that they are (without debate) more honest, "hard working" people than most. I challenge this assumption. It is not a fact, but rather a biased opinion and broad overgeneralization. Moreover, if you read the links I posted, you'll see exactly how the Chinese have come into power in Thailand through Triads and illicit or criminal activities as well as nepotism and favoritism.

Oh, and this has what to do with YOUR OP?

I refer to my first reply on this thread, the whole thing was just a wolf in sheep's clothing of a thread.

[hughben]

An interesting thread.

The Thai concept of live today and not worry about tomorrow that one can find when in Thailand is contradictory to the usual Chinese concept of saving your cash.

Going out and blowing all your cash would be alien to many Chinese.

Of course it's a generalization, but I assume 'Ethnic Chinese' Thais manage to save a bit more than the 'Thais'?

[mauGR1]

An interesting thread.

The Thai concept of live today and not worry about tomorrow that one can find when in Thailand is contradictory to the usual Chinese concept of saving your cash.

Going out and blowing all your cash would be alien to many Chinese.

Of course it's a generalization, but I assume 'Ethnic Chinese' Thais manage to save a bit more than the 'Thais'?

I was thinking the same,but i didn't post cause i would not have been able to say it so clearly.

But i want to add that the Chinese seem sometimes to save money not only for their children,but for grand-children and grand-grand-children as well.

[samran]

Are you suggesting that those at the top of society whether it be in Thailand or elsewhere DON'T use their influence to ensure THEIR children have the best opportunities, that THEIR companies don't get the government contracts? Give me a break...

They do exactly that (of course, without the gov't contracts) at the middle area, and bottom end of society as well. Over generations, that means a rise to the top or at least forward momentum.

I've never had a shot at a gov't contract, my kids likely won't either, but perhaps my grandkids. When one's family line finally starts thinking/working/planning like that, you have a chance to run parallel and finally compete.

i've farmed out government contracts, and I've got a good chance of winning at least two this year. Got nothing to do with my influence. Got heaps to do with my experience...and perhaps due to my lack of insight into Thai culture, as someone remarked.

[samran]

As for identifying i meant there are Thai people who call themselves Thai-Chinese. Is it a fact that they call themselves that or not. I'll answer shall i? Yes it is.

I've a few years experience working for an international company, based until recently in China but dealing also with our Thai colleagues. It has always mystified my Chinese colleagues that our Thai colleagues, despite their obvious Chinese origin, were not able to speak Chinese, like other Chinese from the diaspora. TheThai's answer ? Because we are Thai, not Chinese !

It's my feeling that the younger generation is rediscovering their Chinese origin and learning Chinese, but for economical reason, not cultural. And very few of them compare to other S E Asia countries

i've never heard a Thai person refer to themselves as Thai chinese. Again, maybe my lack of insight into the culture...

[mmushr00m]

How long would they have to be in Thailand before they are considered Thai and not Chinese??

Are we talking about ethnicity or nationality?

They could be chinese ethnically but have no connections with China (Nation) at all, so they are Thai. Or will they always be considered outsiders?

Hijacking this part: The reason I ask is that ethnically I am chinese (with a few different bits thrown in) but the family have been in North America since the railroad building days. So what am I? I have always wondered.....

[littlebigboss]

So what am I? I have always wondered.....

Up to you ! A lot of American I know are proud of their family origin (Italian, Greek, Irish ....Chinese !) but consider themselves first and foremost American.

Nowadays it's getting popular amongst some "groups" to give their allegiance first to their religious or ethnic community, IMO it's the source of a lot of the troubles the world is facing now.

But at the end, it's up to you.

[Scott]

MushrOOm--you are who you decide you are.

Let's try to keep blatantly racist drivel to a minimum. The Chinese Triads, the Italian Mafia, the Japanese Yaksuki (or whatever they are called), have some bad apples and they do manage to get around.

The topic is interesting and we don't want to have to close it down.