Somchai, Chavalit And Patcharawat To Face Criminal Charges

[webfact]

OCTOBER 7 CRACKDOWN

Somchai, Chavalit and Patcharawat to face criminal charges

By The Nation

National anti-graft commission will file criminal charges against ex-Premier Somchai Wongsawat, ex-deputy PM Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyudh

and Police Chief Pol Gen Patcharawat Wongsuwan for their involvement in the October 7 crackdown on yellow shirted protesters.

Wicha Mahakun, a commissioner of National Anti-Corruption Committee (NCCC), said the commission recommended severe disciplinary action against Patcharawat.

Wicha said Somchai and Chavalit would be charged with nonfeasance in violation of Article 157 of the Criminal Code.

The NACC also decided to seek both criminal and disciplinary actions against then Metropolitan police chief Pol Lt Gen Suchart Meunkaew.

They were among nine top officials alleged to have committed malfeasance in ordering and using force to disperse the crowd of PAD protesters rallying in front of the Parliament on October 7 last year.

Two protesters were killed and nearly 500 people were wounded or injured when police fired teargas into the demonstrators near Parliament and at Metropolitan Police Bureau headquarters.

Earlier National anti-graft panel said Monday it may delay today's ruling on the October 7 crackdown on anti-government protesters after the national police chief submitted a letter of complaint and new evidence to the panel.

Somluck Chadkrabuanpol, a member of the National Anti-Corruption Committee , said Police Chief Pol Gen Patcharawat Wongsuwan submitted his complaint and additional evidence to the panel.

The panel will meet Monday to verify the evidence.

"If his evidence is not important, the NCCC will conclude the case immediately," said Somluck, "but if the new evidence is significant to the case, we might delay the ruling."

-- The Nation 2009/07/09

[Oberkommando]

Criminal charges for doing their job.

If only they were so thorough in ensuring punishment for the yellow shirt paramilitaries that took over an international airport, laid siege to Government House for months and that cost the country billions in lost revenue and reputation.

[jasreeve17]

That's not the fault of a new (shortly to become ex) prime minister, of course...

Malfeasance is a ridiculous charge to bring against the PM in this case, indeed any country in the world would try to disperse crowds in this instance; the problem was the poor / lack of professionalism by the officers on the ground (if the senior officers had prior knowledge of their lack of training then a case could be made against them).

Let's hope the case moves as swiftly against the organizers who planned and conducted the 'assault' on the government buildings.

Law must be enforced, and seen to be enforced, equally.

[Thailand]

Criminal charges for doing their job.

If only they were so thorough in ensuring punishment for the yellow shirt paramilitaries that took over an international airport, laid siege to Government House for months and that cost the country billions in lost revenue and reputation.

Come on now, it was only 10 months ago - wheels within wheels- justice moves slowly in LOS depending on how you cut your cloth.

[animatic]

The airport was the second time in a row their incompetence was shown to all.

Oct 7th was handled so poorly, there is no comparison with a properly handle crowd disbursal.

It was visible to all that it was a punitive strike at an annoying group that had stymied their plans.

This goes a long way to explaining the charges for not PROPERLY doing their jobs.

Edited September 7, 2009 by animatic

[FarangForce5]

I agree they did a poor job at handling the airport incident, it definitely hurt the already tainted image of Thailand in the last few years. However I do not believe their actions call for criminal charges. The aggressive tactics were quite necessary at that point, and the little they did still didn't even resolve the matter!

[hammered]

I cant see they have done anything criminal unless they ordered deliberate violence. What next a rigged up tape:)

It will be interesting though to see what actually transpired on the day and the run up to it. This should now come out. At one point Chavalit and Somchai were blaming each other for something or the other. In the end it was also the BKK police chief who ordered an end to the disiastrous operation and not the police chief so that could be interesting to watch too. That was a time when nobody wanted to be in charge and every time there was a demo the whole cabinet went MIA. At least we should get some of that fleshed out. It is always interesting too to have what the elites get up to come out and this should be enlightening too. What happened to Kowit by the way? Did he not get charged?

[animatic]

Mr. Slinky this is about Oct 7th not the airport actually.

airport just was confirming they can deal with things.

And whatever military support they might still have had prior,

it was very nicely erased by their actions and/or lack of them Oct 7th.

I think the point will likely be that; '

they saw the excessive violence, and didn't reign it back in.'

It was plastered all over the television, they had to know.

If the did NOT know... it is either negligence, or deliberate allowing it.

Are they going to say they weren't paying attention?.

[dre1247]

Ohh, that's why Police Chief Pol Gen Patcharawat Wongsuwan is not favored anymore to make a decision on the next police chief. That Shovelit gets his time in court is long overdue, remember Romklao?? Thai forces at Ban Romklao, Phitsanulok in the late 80s. when Gen Chavalit was then army chief and cavalry troops sustained high casualties in the clash with Laos arising from strategic and tactical blunders blamed on the general. A bit of a Goofy if you know what I mean..

Well, never a dull moment in TH politics.

[Chunkton]

Ah well the theater of the absurd continues. The thugs that took over government house and the airport off scott free and the legal government that tried to remove them charged. Is this reality or some perverse Alice in Wonderland?

Can't wait to see the illiterate drivel the anti-Taksin mob brings to this. Supporting your side is all well and good, but supporting nonsense like this is just the not so thin end of the wedge of oppression and totalitarianism.

[DocHolliday]

There are several ways to "remove" people.

October 7 it was done by brute force and this was ordered by someone who denied to have ordered it...

there could have been other means of "removal"

[animatic]

Ah well the theater of the absurd continues. The thugs that took over government house and the airport off scott free and the legal government that tried to remove them charged. Is this reality or some perverse Alice in Wonderland?

Can't wait to see the illiterate drivel the anti-Taksin mob brings to this. Supporting your side is all well and good, but supporting nonsense like this is just the not so thin end of the wedge of oppression and totalitarianism.

No one is saying that PAD gets off scot free.

It has taken this long for this to come to court.

Pad is also in the court system has been for soime time.

TIT give it time, they'll git their day too.

If this 'legal government' had done it within proper bounds,

this would never have come to court.

[Samuian]

Criminal charges for doing their job.

If only they were so thorough in ensuring punishment for the yellow shirt paramilitaries that took over an international airport, laid siege to Government House for months and that cost the country billions in lost revenue and reputation.

For clearly OVERDOING their Job!

Don't want to refer to the 3.Recih, some have been

"doing their job" there just as well, some have been hung and shot

immediately after they got caught and it was understood what they had done!

Chavalit went into monk hood immediately after things went out of control on 7th October!

"Doing their job" means maiming and killing innocent demonstrators Mr. Oberkommando?

Ever heard anything about responsibility, accountability, respect and venerability?

isn't it part of the reconciliation process - or are in your view the PAD protesters "not worth it"?

[grandpops]

Criminal charges for doing their job.

If only they were so thorough in ensuring punishment for the yellow shirt paramilitaries that took over an international airport, laid siege to Government House for months and that cost the country billions in lost revenue and reputation.

For clearly OVERDOING their Job!

Don't want to refer to the 3.Recih, some have been

"doing their job" there just as well, some have been hung and shot

immediately after they got caught and it was understood what they had done!

Chavalit went into monk hood immediately after things went out of control on 7th October!

"Doing their job" means maiming and killing innocent demonstrators Mr. Oberkommando?

Ever heard anything about responsibility, accountability, respect and venerability?

isn't it part of the reconciliation process - or are in your view the PAD protesters "not worth it"?

Once they brought the country to its knees they were not worth it.

If they were such a mighty organisataion with such popular support, how did they manage to lose the rigged elections that put Samark and Somchai in place?

They are a stain on this country and a disgrace to the colour they wear on their shirts.

If they had been dispersed and the Government left in place we could have had a good high season and some stability. The PAD and their army masters could have gone on with plotting to win the next rigged election but that was not enough. They decided their masters snouts could not risk being out of the trough for another 4 years.

I think they were treated lightly considering what they did. Think an idiotic mob like that would have got into the Whitehouse, Houses of Parliament or the Kermlin.... Ballcocks!

Edited September 7, 2009 by grandpops

[animatic]

This last rant is brought to by Font of Irrelevance Inc,

Seeking to confuse issues for months on end.

This is not about PAD or Airports or Thaksin.

This is about 3 guys who allowed a gathering of demonstrators

to be attacked maimed and killed rather than be disbursed in an orderly fashion

and sent packing.

Do they allow geriatrics in the stormtroupers?

Edited September 7, 2009 by animatic

[geriatrickid]

There are several ways to "remove" people.

October 7 it was done by brute force and this was ordered by someone who denied to have ordered it...

there could have been other means of "removal"

What alternative methods were available? Is there any dispute over the fact that the police are neither trained nor equipped for such an event? The people charged were doing the best they could and it was up to the commanders on the ground to oversee their units. These 3 might be inept and incompetent but if they are to be charged, then alot more people need to also be charged along with them.

This last rant is brought to by Font of Irrelevance Inc,

Seeking to confuse issues for months on end.

This is not about PAD or Airports or Thaksin.

This is about 3 guys who allowed a gathering of demonstrators

to be attacked maimed and killed rather than be disbursed in an orderly fashion

and sent packing.

Do they allow geriatrics in the stormtroupers?

Did they really allow the gathering? Seems to me that they were overwhelmed by events and were relying on the leadership of the units at the locations to act. If the units did not behave responsibly, then that speaks to the officers and NCOs in charge at the time. And who still retain their ranks.

How would you have expected these 3 to stop the maiming and killing as you put it? Those were ill equipped, ill disciplined, ill prepared and poorly led personnel and they reacted as expected. I don't think the 3 ordered anyone to be maimed or killed. Yes, they lost control of the situation, but look at what they were working with: Police officers terrified that they would in turn be set on fire or shot. This is why the army when it mounts its coups always acts in force with tanks and what not so as to intimidate and terrify people into submission. The police had nothing with which to encourage peaceful compliance. The army sucks off the funds that could be better used for police training and equipment. (Even the honourable disciplined navy gets nothing.)

[webfact]

OCTOBER 7 CRACKDOWN

Somchai denies order violent crackdown

Ex-Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat has denied that he had ordered a violent crackdown on the yellow-shirted protesters led by People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) on October 7 last year.

The National Counter-Corruption Commission (NCCC) ruled Monday that it would file criminal disciplinary charges against Somchai, then deputy premier Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyut, Police Chief Pol Gen Patcharawat Wongsuwan and other high-ranking police officers for committing nonfeasance, for their involvement in the crackdown.

Two PAD protesters were killed and nearly 500 others were wounded when police fired teargas into them near Parliament and at Metropolitan Police Bureau headquarters.

Showing a document on special cabinet meeting's resolution of October 6 last year, Somchai Tuesday said the Cabinet on that day had assigned Gen Chavalit to be responsible for maintaining law and order after the PAD had blocked the Parliament with intention to obstruct the government's planned policy statement delivery.

He said the Cabinet did not order the police to use violence or to disperse the demonstrators. He affirmed that police had carried out their duties as part of their responsibility to maintain law and order.

While the PAD surrounded Parliament to protest against the Somchai government, then Prime Minister Somchai called a special Cabinet meeting on October 6, which resolved that the police should open a passage for members of Parliament, both members of the Lower House and the Senate, to attend a joint session for the government to present its policy package at Parliament as scheduled.

Somchai told a press conference Tuesday at Puea Thai Party headquarters that he believed the police and government officials on duty on that day should be rewarded for a job well done rather than being punished.

If there are similar incidents in the future, he said, the police would decide to do nothing as they may fear to be disciplined for carrying out their appointed duties.

As for the people who were wounded during the incident, former premier said he wanted a further investigation to clarify how they were injured.

Somchai stressed that he did not instruct the police on how to deal with the protesters as his government was preoccupied with presenting its policy statement to Parliament before taking full control of the administration.

Somchai said he did not deny responsibility but wanted to present the truth. He said he would gather documents and information during that period to clarify his defense and to fight against his accusers.

The NCCC should investigate the crackdown against the Red Shirt protesters United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) during last April's Songkran Festival as military personnel and guns were used, he said, but no guns were used during the police action against PAD.

Somchai said he felt pity for Gen Patcharawat as he also faces criminal and disciplinary charges.

-- The Nation 2009/08/09

[webfact]

Ex-Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat shows

on Tuesday cabinet resolution of Oct 6 last year

to prove his claim that he did not order violent

crackdown on yellow shirted protesters.//Sakol Sandhiratne

-- The Nation 2009/08/09

[hammered]

Ohh, that's why Police Chief Pol Gen Patcharawat Wongsuwan is not favored anymore to make a decision on the next police chief. That Shovelit gets his time in court is long overdue, remember Romklao?? Thai forces at Ban Romklao, Phitsanulok in the late 80s. when Gen Chavalit was then army chief and cavalry troops sustained high casualties in the clash with Laos arising from strategic and tactical blunders blamed on the general. A bit of a Goofy if you know what I mean..

Well, never a dull moment in TH politics.

I know people who lost relatives at Ban Romklao who partied the day Chatchai died and plan to have a bigger party when Chavalit goes. Mind you while Chavalit still thinks he can save the country most people regard him as having lost his marbles when he speaks these days or for the last half decade at least. He also suffered the ignominy of being turned down when he asked for class 5 help around destruction of the currency time (another of his great moments). Oddly enough his greatest achievment may have been the alliance with Chamlong against the military in 1992 for which class 5 seemingly never forgave him (siding with class 7 was just not the done thing). Make you right on "a bit of a goofy"

[hammered]

Ex-Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat shows

on Tuesday cabinet resolution of Oct 6 last year

to prove his claim that he did not order violent

crackdown on yellow shirted protesters.//Sakol Sandhiratne

-- The Nation 2009/08/09

Wasnt there stuff at the time of a chaotic cabinet meeting called at night with more than a few ministers drunk? No doubt we will never know but bear in mind also that certain influential PPP MPs (named on Thai weboards) had given shall we say heated speeches at the red shirt rally before they were escorted by the police several km to attack the yellow shirts on a previous occasion.

I doubt Somchai really wanted violence but it certainly isnt beyond a number of PTP powerful ones and the police had already been seen as taking sides at that stage.

Interesting period with diofferent sides trying to get their propoganda version accepted.

[Publicus]

Because TiT and anything can happen to any elected government official--any charge--we see why Abhisit must get the doctored tape matter straightened out and the principal culprits identified, charged and tried.

Doing so might open a trail elsewhere to other culprits in other crimes as well.

[jayboy]

Ex-Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat shows

on Tuesday cabinet resolution of Oct 6 last year

to prove his claim that he did not order violent

crackdown on yellow shirted protesters.//Sakol Sandhiratne

-- The Nation 2009/08/09

Wasnt there stuff at the time of a chaotic cabinet meeting called at night with more than a few ministers drunk? No doubt we will never know but bear in mind also that certain influential PPP MPs (named on Thai weboards) had given shall we say heated speeches at the red shirt rally before they were escorted by the police several km to attack the yellow shirts on a previous occasion.

I doubt Somchai really wanted violence but it certainly isnt beyond a number of PTP powerful ones and the police had already been seen as taking sides at that stage.

Interesting period with diofferent sides trying to get their propoganda version accepted.

Interesting however propaganda apart, isn't it useful sometimes to remind ourselves that no self respecting government in the world would have permitted an illegal occupation in a location like this? I personally had no problem in principle with a forcible ejection of the yellow shirts, sheer criminality on the leadership's part.After all several warnings had been given.Exactly the same with the red yobs in Pattaya later on.However the PAD leadership was thirsting for bloodshed and due to sloppy rather than criminal police work they eventually got it - although let's face it on a tiny scale unless one counts those morons who blew themselves up.

[TAWP]

due to sloppy rather than criminal police work they eventually got it - although let's face it on a tiny scale unless one counts those morons who blew themselves up.

Again with the lies and non-supported 'facts' being re-posted by the same posters.

You are saying that all damages, including those seen 'live' in the videos, are infact from peoples own devices and that the police actions did infact not kill anyway?

A yes or no is enough.

[animatic]

There are several ways to "remove" people.

October 7 it was done by brute force and this was ordered by someone who denied to have ordered it...

there could have been other means of "removal"

What alternative methods were available? Is there any dispute over the fact that the police are neither trained nor equipped for such an event? The people charged were doing the best they could and it was up to the commanders on the ground to oversee their units. These 3 might be inept and incompetent but if they are to be charged, then alot more people need to also be charged along with them.

This last rant is brought to by Font of Irrelevance Inc,

Seeking to confuse issues for months on end.

This is not about PAD or Airports or Thaksin.

This is about 3 guys who allowed a gathering of demonstrators

to be attacked maimed and killed rather than be disbursed in an orderly fashion

and sent packing.

Do they allow geriatrics in the stormtroupers?

Did they really allow the gathering? Seems to me that they were overwhelmed by events and were relying on the leadership of the units at the locations to act. If the units did not behave responsibly, then that speaks to the officers and NCOs in charge at the time. And who still retain their ranks.

How would you have expected these 3 to stop the maiming and killing as you put it? Those were ill equipped, ill disciplined, ill prepared and poorly led personnel and they reacted as expected. I don't think the 3 ordered anyone to be maimed or killed. Yes, they lost control of the situation, but look at what they were working with: Police officers terrified that they would in turn be set on fire or shot. This is why the army when it mounts its coups always acts in force with tanks and what not so as to intimidate and terrify people into submission. The police had nothing with which to encourage peaceful compliance. The army sucks off the funds that could be better used for police training and equipment. (Even the honourable disciplined navy gets nothing.)

Didn't you notice there was no comma there.

Hows about I make the line linear.

....about 3 guys who allowed a gathering of demonstrators to be attacked maimed and killed....

Any country, Any NATION, that can't field enough PROPERLY TRAINED riot control police is <deleted>.

As was noted at the time, these were border patrol police units, loyal to PPP and Thaksin,

not the Bangkok Police's riot control force that SHOULD have been used. Normally used.

Another reason why this can me called malfeasance.

"they reacted as expected" you hit the nail on the head.

There were properly trained an equipped officers available,

they were not used, and the ones that were acted violently... as expected....

No Somchai didn't 'formally ask for maiming and killing.'

But he had access to TELEVISION, and so did ALL INVOLVED.

I saw it live, why not the country's LEADERS....???

They did not act to diffuse the situation,

many hours after I would have ordered tactical retreat and negotiations,

they just let the carnage continue and spin even farther out of control.

And creating a VERY militarized PAD at the same time. Oct 7 planted seeds for sure.

Each time they were attacked they didn't back down, they got more angry.

We know where this led. PPP mishandled PAD over and over again.

What was just a barking, howling dog, they made into a mad dog.

Either incompetence or malfeasance through negligence or vindictiveness.

This needs to be settled in court, and not free pass to walk away from it.

Edited September 8, 2009 by animatic

[SHYTALK]

Because TiT and anything can happen to any elected government official--any charge--we see why Abhisit must get the doctored tape matter straightened out and the principal culprits identified, charged and tried.

Doing so might open a trail elsewhere to other culprits in other crimes as well.

Elected !....by who , the people in an election?

Appointed by the junta.

[SHYTALK]

Ex-Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat shows

on Tuesday cabinet resolution of Oct 6 last year

to prove his claim that he did not order violent

crackdown on yellow shirted protesters.//Sakol Sandhiratne

-- The Nation 2009/08/09

Wasnt there stuff at the time of a chaotic cabinet meeting called at night with more than a few ministers drunk? No doubt we will never know but bear in mind also that certain influential PPP MPs (named on Thai weboards) had given shall we say heated speeches at the red shirt rally before they were escorted by the police several km to attack the yellow shirts on a previous occasion.

I doubt Somchai really wanted violence but it certainly isnt beyond a number of PTP powerful ones and the police had already been seen as taking sides at that stage.

Interesting period with diofferent sides trying to get their propoganda version accepted.

Interesting however propaganda apart, isn't it useful sometimes to remind ourselves that no self respecting government in the world would have permitted an illegal occupation in a location like this? I personally had no problem in principle with a forcible ejection of the yellow shirts, sheer criminality on the leadership's part.After all several warnings had been given.Exactly the same with the red yobs in Pattaya later on.However the PAD leadership was thirsting for bloodshed and due to sloppy rather than criminal police work they eventually got it - although let's face it on a tiny scale unless one counts those morons who blew themselves up.

The PAD and yellow ones got off light, although any deaths and injuries are sad.

You should have seen how thatcher and the police broke up the "illegal" uk miners demonstrations in the past.

The PAD and yellow ones were there illegally and the cops had the job to move them on.

They decided they didn't want to go , so got what they sewed.

Some would say got exactly what the PAD had manouvred to get.

[SHYTALK]

Any country, Any NATION, that can't field enough PROPERLY TRAINED riot control police is <deleted>.

As was noted at the time, these were border patrol police units, loyal to PPP and Thaksin,

not the Bangkok Police's riot control force that SHOULD have been used. Normally used.

Hang on,

Nobody asked you what kept your ears apart.

Are you telling us that the PAD and yellow ones were there to RIOT?

So much for the propoganda peaceful PAD demo then.

Sounds to me the PAD and yellow ones were lucky that only the borders were there.

[jayboy]

due to sloppy rather than criminal police work they eventually got it - although let's face it on a tiny scale unless one counts those morons who blew themselves up.

Again with the lies and non-supported 'facts' being re-posted by the same posters.

You are saying that all damages, including those seen 'live' in the videos, are infact from peoples own devices and that the police actions did infact not kill anyway?

A yes or no is enough.

The answer is "no", but whether that's enough is a matter for me to decide.

Was the decision to order the enforced clearing the right one? Absolutely

The police action was incompetent, coupled with idiotic use of inappropriate tear gas projectiles which did most of the damage including the unfortunate fatalities.

Was there malicious intent by the police or the politicians who ordered the clearing.I doubt it.

Was the bloodshed, albeit minor, something that the PAD leadership was hoping for? Probably.

Was there a violent and thuggish element in the yellow ranks? Yes.

Were some yellow supporters carrying explosives which in least one case killed the person concerned? Yes

[animatic]

Because TiT and anything can happen to any elected government official--any charge--we see why Abhisit must get the doctored tape matter straightened out and the principal culprits identified, charged and tried.

Doing so might open a trail elsewhere to other culprits in other crimes as well.

Elected !....by who , the people in an election?

Appointed by the junta.

Yes, elected in open session by ALL the Mp's in the Lower House of Parliament

and then confirmed and installed by HRM.

As are ALL Prime Ministers.

What junta? There hasn't been one in years here.

Don't let facts get in the way of a 'Rant for Pay' job description.

[animatic]

Any country, Any NATION, that can't field enough PROPERLY TRAINED riot control police is <deleted>.

As was noted at the time, these were border patrol police units, loyal to PPP and Thaksin,

not the Bangkok Police's riot control force that SHOULD have been used. Normally used.

Hang on,

Nobody asked you what kept your ears apart.

Are you telling us that the PAD and yellow ones were there to RIOT?

So much for the propoganda peaceful PAD demo then.

Sounds to me the PAD and yellow ones were lucky that only the borders were there.

No, that is not what I said. But you are trying to say that.

Attempting to confuse a simple issue, because you can't win the argument.

And of course start with a flame that isn't even inventive.

Was there malicious intent by the police or the politicians who ordered the clearing.I doubt it.

Clearing out protesters, regardless of intent to riot or not,

is better done by trained professionals, not loyal thugs in uniforms.

The very fact that it was Border Police trucked in specially and atypically,

and not the Bangkok Police trained in this job, makes it obviously mal-intentioned.

No doubt one of the points in court will be, Who ordered this special border unit to come do this?

Edited September 9, 2009 by animatic