Condominium Juristic Person

[krakatoa]

I have owned a condominium here in Thailand for some 12 and a half years.

Until this year the Juristic Person, was, let's call him Mr. Y

It is my understanding that he was one of the developers along with some

of his friend's when the building was first constructed around 15 plus years ago.

Over the years the building was very badly managed (no management committee,

no financial statements, no balance sheet, etc., provided to apartment owners)

Around five years ago we “expat owner's started a bit of a push to have things done

in an open and transparent manner (I know it is Thailand but don't fall down laughing)

An annual general meeting (AGM) was held around four years ago and a committee

was elected. A balance sheet or financial statement was distributed to the folk attending the AGM.

Please remember Mr Y is still the juristic person.

Any way for the next couple of years regular committee meetings were held bi-monthly,

minutes were taken and financial updates provided.

Another salient aspect associated with this particular condominium had many, either unsold

units or units, on which no condo fees were being paid.

Some were in default for more than twelve years and as much a Baht 3 - 4 million Baht was outstanding in

un-paid fees.

Other units were taken over by the banks because the owners were not repaying their loans. (and in fact by now had zero equity in their apartments)

So far what I have written will be of no surprise to anyone who has lived in the realm for any length of time.

The crash of 1997 saw Thai's owing somewhere around 65 billion dollars in un-paid repayments.

Around 50 or 51 of the 53 financial companies in Thailand went to the wall. Some banks

collapsed. And of course then the Asian financial crisis spread to most countries around Asia

but one should never forget that it germinated in Thailand

So this particular condominium was slowly going down the gurgler money wise.

We paid off staff who were doing nothing and finances slowly improved.

Well the long and short of it was that Mr Y had grown tired of being under the

microscope as it were and announced that he was standing down as the Juristic Person.

He announced that a new man, who let us say is Mr X and he is now going to be the new Juristic Person.

There were no nominations, no vote took place, so Mr X is now the Juristic Person.

Now we are seeing a dictatorship of sorts where Mr X does not even consult

the management committee with his proposals or to have them endorsed by majority

vote of the management committee members.

So as in the title and description of this thread how is a Juristic Person appointed.

There are I am sure that there are hundreds if not thousands of Thai Visa members

who will have had similar experiences, e.g. bad management, money unaccounted for,

staff being engaged in other work (moonlighting) whilst being paid by the owners and residents from their fees

(body corporate fees)

Any feed back will be gratefully received. Please try and keep to the facts.

It is a serious issue and one that I am sure will be affecting many of you as well.

One could very well add with a high degree of certainty that Mr Y (the original Juristic Person) is still the "puppet master" pulling the strings and taking his cut.

Edited September 11, 2009 by krakatoa

[hhgz]

Your post rambles on and on and on.... We understand where Thailand was in 1997 and it's not necessary for you to rehash old news.

"Condominium Juristic Person, How are they appointed and by whom"

The latest Condominium Act is available online, and it answers your questions.

[john b good]

Your post rambles on and on and on.... We understand where Thailand was in 1997 and it's not necessary for you to rehash old news.

"Condominium Juristic Person, How are they appointed and by whom"

The latest Condominium Act is available online, and it answers your questions.

Thank you for your very constructive contribution.

I am sure the OP will be just so happy to hear your advice.

But in the absense of any thing else have you got a link to share with us all ?

[hhgz]

Several URLs have been posted, and a little initiative might go a long way.

[eljeque]

Your initiative is limited to being insulting.

[samtam]

Section 49 of the Condominium Act BE 2551 is the relevant section - not less than 25% of co-owners are required to remove or appoint a Juristic Person manager.

Section 49.58 The following resolutions shall require not less than

one-fourth of the total number of votes of the joint owners:

(1) An appointment or a removal of the manager.

(2) A designation of businesses that the manager has the power to

assign other persons to act on his/her behalf.

[krakatoa]

Section 49 of the Condominium Act BE 2551 is the relevant section - not less than 25% of co-owners are required to remove or appoint a Juristic Person manager.

Section 49.58 The following resolutions shall require not less than

one-fourth of the total number of votes of the joint owners:

(1) An appointment or a removal of the manager.

(2) A designation of businesses that the manager has the power to

assign other persons to act on his/her behalf.

Thank you for this information "samtam"

Yes, "eljeque" you are absolutely correct and it is patently clear that 'hhgz' is a perfect "chok wow" who when he has nothing constructive to say just lets fly from his fundamental orifice.

[Jaydillon]

I think now is the time to sort out the mess ones and for all,All you paying residence should get together as a team and seek professional advice from a good reputed lawyer,then Mr X and Y can put forward there proposals.Don't let these people take the piss .I an sure a lot of codo owners have similar problems,good post

Good luck and keep us posted.

[krakatoa]

I think now is the time to sort out the mess ones and for all,All you paying residence should get together as a team and seek professional advice from a good reputed lawyer,then Mr X and Y can put forward there proposals.Don't let these people take the piss .I an sure a lot of codo owners have similar problems,good post

Good luck and keep us posted.

I agree. We will have a meeting of concerned parties and seek some legal advice.

I don't see it being resolved in the near term but we are going to keep trying.

One of the problems is with number of units now in the hands of banks or other institutions and other owners who have defaulted on paying their body corp fees is that (a) the banks are only concerned with getting what they are owed and ( those who aren't paying their fees are mostly non resident, their units are not tenented, and they have already had their utility services cut off.

And finally the Thai's who own units just don't seem to give a shyt anyway.

Thanks for your input "and the good luck"

And as you say we are sure that there are many others in the realm in the same boat.

I have heard quite a number of horror stories.

[thaihome]

Sounds like a real mess. Poor Management, many foreclosed units, no system in place to collect delinquent dues, etc. Makes me really appreciate living in a well run condo development. We have yearly AGM meetings that are attended by over half the owners, elect a committee that overseas the management (a separate company from the developer) and approves all expenditures, and delinquent fees are dealt with quickly.

Oh, and did I mention that out of the 200 units, only 12 are farang owned?

TH

[samtam]

Can anyone tell me whether it's legal for a non Thai without a work permit to be:

1) Juristic Person manager

2) Committee member

[samtam]

Anyone?

[mark5335]

Can anyone tell me whether it's legal for a non Thai without a work permit to be:

1) Juristic Person manager

2) Committee member

I read a long thread last year which touched on this topic to some extent. Apparently, a non-Thai would require a WP to be JP Manager given that the role requires being the representative of the the condo for signing of documents, receiving official correspondence, working with the management company on general day to day admin of the condo etc. However, a non-Thai would not require a WP to be a member of the Owners Committee as this simply entails general oversight of the management of the owner's investment of a condo unit.

Perhaps it could be argued either way, but I consider the aforementioned also makes sense. The JP Manager of my condo receives remuneration of about 10,000 baht p/m so, if a non-Thai, she would clearly require a WP.

[samtam]

Thanks mark 5335.

[cheshiremusicman]

On 9/14/2009 at 12:20 PM, thaihome said:

Sounds like a real mess. Poor Management, many foreclosed units, no system in place to collect delinquent dues, etc. Makes me really appreciate living in a well run condo development. We have yearly AGM meetings that are attended by over half the owners, elect a committee that overseas the management (a separate company from the developer) and approves all expenditures, and delinquent fees are dealt with quickly.

Oh, and did I mention that out of the 200 units, only 12 are farang owned?

TH

I would be very interested to know how your 'deal with deliquent payers'?