Visa Worries - Non-o 'dependant' Visa Based On Child?

[PPG]

Confused again....

I have a Thai daughter who I support and share custody with her mother, whom I never married and have been seperated from for 4 years - we're on v. friendly terms (she lives in the same apartment building as me!!).

My question is regards the current situation on showing financial capability for the non-o visa based on dependant Thai child.

I have 7 years worth of Bangkok Bank pass books, but don't have savings of B400,000 which I understand you need to show... I have approximately B100,000. I also read if you can prove income of B40,000 you will be issued the non-o visa. How do you go about showing that? I work online, and have some money sent directly from the USA to my BKK Bank account, whilst other funds come in monthly from my old boss via a local Thai account. I don't do any work in Thialnd.

But I presume I can't say I'm doing work of any kind in the kingdom (online or not) when applying for non-o, correct?

Knowing my situation, what are the chances of getting the Visa?

Which would be the best consulate within the region? I can't get back to the UK until Christmas.

I'm currently on a tourist visa which expires in 6 days - can I get the 60-day 'visit family' extension, which I have just read about here, whilst contemplating my best options?

I have more questions... but will wait for any clarifications on the above first.

Thanks all.

[Mario2008]

If tyou will get the extension of stay will depend on the immigration office you are using. Some seem to require you have sole custody over the child and the child lives with you, others are less strict. Note that as this is a new regulation, there isn't much experience with this one yet.

You can get a 60 day extension on show of the birth cetificate of your daughter. Might be nice is she goesd along, at the same time you can inquire about that office requirements for an extension of stay based on having a Thai child.

If they deny an extension based on having a Thai child you can get a multiple non-O visa from Kuala Lumpur. You must show some money in a Thai bankaccount. The visa is valid for one year. Each time during that year you travel to Thailand you can stay for up to 90 days. After which you can return (the same day) as long as the visa is valid. By leaving and re-netering just before the visa expires you get a new 90 day permission to stay and can get almost 15 months out of the visa.

Working online without a work permit is illegal.

As for showing income. Income from within Thailand must be proven with tax documents, income from abroad must be proven with a letter from your embassy. The US embassy requires you to make a sworn statement, which they notarise. No additional proof of income is necesarry.

[PPG]

Thanks for your reply Mario.... a couple of questions based on your post:

If tyou will get the extension of stay will depend on the immigration office you are using. Some seem to require you have sole custody over the child and the child lives with you, others are less strict. Note that as this is a new regulation, there isn't much experience with this one yet.

Just to be sure...Is this answer referring to my question regards adding a 60-day extension to my tourist visa? Or do you mean when applying for an extension to a non-o? I'm in Bangkok, so I'll be going to Suan Phlu in a day or two to try for the 60 day extnesion (based on child) to my tourist visa. I can easily take her along. Although I share custody with her, I could get the official letter from the Thai Government stating I am the sole custodian. I've discussed this with my ex, and she is fine with that.

If they deny an extension based on having a Thai child you can get a multiple non-O visa from Kuala Lumpur.

I'm confused on this point. If they deny based on having a Thai Child, what other reason could I apply for a non-o? I'm not married.

The US embassy requires you to make a sworn statement, which they notarise. No additional proof of income is necesarry.

I'm from the UK - is it the same requirement?

Thanks again.

[Eclipse]

The UK Embassy will need proof of income.

[Mario2008]

Thanks for your reply Mario.... a couple of questions based on your post:

If tyou will get the extension of stay will depend on the immigration office you are using. Some seem to require you have sole custody over the child and the child lives with you, others are less strict. Note that as this is a new regulation, there isn't much experience with this one yet.

Just to be sure...Is this answer referring to my question regards adding a 60-day extension to my tourist visa? Or do you mean when applying for an extension to a non-o? I'm in Bangkok, so I'll be going to Suan Phlu in a day or two to try for the 60 day extnesion (based on child) to my tourist visa. I can easily take her along. Although I share custody with her, I could get the official letter from the Thai Government stating I am the sole custodian. I've discussed this with my ex, and she is fine with that.

I was talking about the 1 year extension of stay here. If you have sole custoody and take the child along it would be great and you will have less worry, provided your child says she lives with you.

For the 60 day extension immigration is not that strict, but taking the child along might help.

If they deny an extension based on having a Thai child you can get a multiple non-O visa from Kuala Lumpur.

I'm confused on this point. If they deny based on having a Thai Child, what other reason could I apply for a non-o? I'm not married.

I mean if immigration denies a one year extension on your non-O, you can still get a multiple non-O visa. The requirements for an extension are stricter than for a visa.

The US embassy requires you to make a sworn statement, which they notarise. No additional proof of income is necesarry.

I'm from the UK - is it the same requirement?

No, the UK embssy will demand proof of your income.

Thanks again.

My reply in blue.

[bigt116]

If they deny an extension based on having a Thai child you can get a multiple non-O visa from Kuala Lumpur.

I'm confused on this point. If they deny based on having a Thai Child, what other reason could I apply for a non-o? I'm not married.

I mean if immigration denies a one year extension on your non-O, you can still get a multiple non-O visa. The requirements for an extension are stricter than for a visa.

Is this true that KL will give a multi entry Non O to visit friends and family ? I have not read a single report about that

[Mario2008]

If they deny an extension based on having a Thai child you can get a multiple non-O visa from Kuala Lumpur.

I'm confused on this point. If they deny based on having a Thai Child, what other reason could I apply for a non-o? I'm not married.

I mean if immigration denies a one year extension on your non-O, you can still get a multiple non-O visa. The requirements for an extension are stricter than for a visa.

Is this true that KL will give a multi entry Non O to visit friends and family ? I have not read a single report about that

There are 2 things. First the non-O visa which will give you a single 90 day entry or unlimited 90 day entries during 1 year in case of a multiple non-O. This you get at an embassy or consulate.

Secondly you have the 1 year extension of stay you can get from immigration in Thailand if you have a non-O visa (single or multiple).

I was talking about the extension from immigration being denied, but was a bit confusing. The rules for the visa are not as strict as for the 1 year extension of stay from immigration. So if one is denied an extension of stay one could still apply for a new multiple non-O visa. Less convienient because you would have to leave the country every 90 days, but still better than visa exempt entries where you have to elave the country every 14 days.

[PPG]

Thanks Mario.

So worse case scenario is I could simply go to KL every 3 months and make a new non-o visa if bangkok immigration give me problems?

Do you have personal experience or know someone doing this?

How strict are they on the financial requirements in KL? My savings and income fluctuate. I have regular income coming in from the USA but no documentation to support that, other than the money landing in the bank.

I can also take my daughter with me when applying at KL.

Cheers,

[Mario2008]

Thanks Mario.

So worse case scenario is I could simply go to KL every 3 months and make a new non-o visa if bangkok immigration give me problems?

Do you have personal experience or know someone doing this?

How strict are they on the financial requirements in KL? My savings and income fluctuate. I have regular income coming in from the USA but no documentation to support that, other than the money landing in the bank.

I can also take my daughter with me when applying at KL.

Cheers,

Yes, if you can't get the extension just get a non-O every 3 month or every 15 months in case of a multiple.

Kuala Lumpur will even give a multiple entry non-O if you can show some money in the bank in Thailand. (20,000 at least. if you can show more in th bank when you apply the better. They just want to see your updated bankbook)

No need to take the daughter along, just the birth certificate will do.

[PPG]

Is there any minimum age requirement for Non-O based on Child?

I seem to remember a conversation with a guy who was told at immigration in Suan Phlu that he was too young to be considered for Non-O (based on dependancy of a child). He was 35 at the time ( I'm 38 btw).

Cheers.

[lopburi3]

That (too young) probably occurred in the last several years where there was a provision for those over age 50 to stay with child without financial requirements. The provision has been removed.

[PPG]

That (too young) probably occurred in the last several years where there was a provision for those over age 50 to stay with child without financial requirements. The provision has been removed.

Ok, cool..... good to know. So I'm officially old enough to be a father. Progress.

[AndyCanfield]

Throw in my note as one who has done it...

Every three months I go to the Thai consulate in Vientiane. I give them copies of the birth certificates and tabian bahns of my two sons. By luck I have a tabian bahn myself and give them a copy of that, too. They give me a three month non-O to live with my sons.

I can't get an annual extension. I have bank stattements proving past income but nothing guaranteeing future income. I live with and support my sons but I don't have legal custody.

Been doing that for a few years now. When the rules change my documents change, my procedures change, my visa changes. As long as they let me in, I'll be here taking care of my family.

Visas come from the consulate which is part of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs; extensions come from the immigration police which is part of the Ministry of the Interior. They have differernt rules. The visa is critical; the extension is convenient but not necessary.

[Mario2008]

Throw in my note as one who has done it...

Every three months I go to the Thai consulate in Vientiane. I give them copies of the birth certificates and tabian bahns of my two sons. By luck I have a tabian bahn myself and give them a copy of that, too. They give me a three month non-O to live with my sons.

I can't get an annual extension. I have bank stattements proving past income but nothing guaranteeing future income. I live with and support my sons but I don't have legal custody.

Been doing that for a few years now. When the rules change my documents change, my procedures change, my visa changes. As long as they let me in, I'll be here taking care of my family.

Visas come from the consulate which is part of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs; extensions come from the immigration police which is part of the Ministry of the Interior. They have differernt rules. The visa is critical; the extension is convenient but not necessary.

Note that you can qualify for an extension if you show an income of 40,000 baht a month OR if you show 400,000 in a Thai bankaccount for 2 months (3 months for next extension at some offices). Not having legal custody will also be a problem.

[marco07]

I have wrestled with all this for months and in the end decided the best thing to do is bite the bullet and go to a helpful consulate (there are a few of them).

I have just been to Hull on a visit to the UK and got a 12 month multiple re-entry non-O based on children at school in Thailand, no problems, no proof of income/savings etc.

Visa = GBP110, Return train ticket London/Hull GBP70. The biggest expense being the flight from Thailand to UK. If one is a Brit and has to make periodic trips back to visit relatives etc, then Hull is the most effective way of dealing with Visa issues.

[thaiphoon]

I have wrestled with all this for months and in the end decided the best thing to do is bite the bullet and go to a helpful consulate (there are a few of them).

I have just been to Hull on a visit to the UK and got a 12 month multiple re-entry non-O based on children at school in Thailand, no problems, no proof of income/savings etc.

Visa = GBP110, Return train ticket London/Hull GBP70. The biggest expense being the flight from Thailand to UK. If one is a Brit and has to make periodic trips back to visit relatives etc, then Hull is the most effective way of dealing with Visa issues.

Everyone's situation is of course different. With the above you would have do border runs every 90 days, whereas with extension of stay you would only need to do 90 day reporting, and for most offices that can be done by post.

[Mario2008]

I have wrestled with all this for months and in the end decided the best thing to do is bite the bullet and go to a helpful consulate (there are a few of them).

I have just been to Hull on a visit to the UK and got a 12 month multiple re-entry non-O based on children at school in Thailand, no problems, no proof of income/savings etc.

Visa = GBP110, Return train ticket London/Hull GBP70. The biggest expense being the flight from Thailand to UK. If one is a Brit and has to make periodic trips back to visit relatives etc, then Hull is the most effective way of dealing with Visa issues.

You could have applied by mail in Hull from London.Perth would have been closer by I believe.

Did you try to get a multiple non-O from Kuala Lumpur, (if your children are Thai and you can show something like 30,000 in a Thai bankaccount).

[christcourt]

I have wrestled with all this for months and in the end decided the best thing to do is bite the bullet and go to a helpful consulate (there are a few of them).

I have just been to Hull on a visit to the UK and got a 12 month multiple re-entry non-O based on children at school in Thailand, no problems, no proof of income/savings etc.

Visa = GBP110, Return train ticket London/Hull GBP70. The biggest expense being the flight from Thailand to UK. If one is a Brit and has to make periodic trips back to visit relatives etc, then Hull is the most effective way of dealing with Visa issues.

This is also what I do to get Multi Entry 'O', but based on Thai Marriage and looking after her son. If indeed going to Hull Consulate they are very quick to process everything and very friendly. I have done this many times and worth the expence of no hassel.

I do hear that the Laos Consulate office are more friendly [and you can mostly go by train] than Kuala Lumpor office in Malaysia. The one reason I do go home to my home country is that the Thai Immigration are always shifting the goal posts with the paperwork and what they perceive as the correct way of doing things correctly. Call me lazy but I work in malaysia too and find they can get abit authoritarian.

[thaiphoon]

This is also what I do to get Multi Entry 'O', but based on Thai Marriage and looking after her son. If indeed going to Hull Consulate they are very quick to process everything and very friendly. I have done this many times and worth the expence of no hassel.

I do hear that the Laos Consulate office are more friendly [and you can mostly go by train] than Kuala Lumpor office in Malaysia. The one reason I do go home to my home country is that the Thai Immigration are always shifting the goal posts with the paperwork and what they perceive as the correct way of doing things correctly. Call me lazy but I work in malaysia too and find they can get abit authoritarian.

Most embassies/consulates in the region will not issue multi-entry Non-O visas, as they expect you to extend permission to stay at immigration in Thailand. KL and Penang are exceptions.

[fred2007]

This is also what I do to get Multi Entry 'O', but based on Thai Marriage and looking after her son. If indeed going to Hull Consulate they are very quick to process everything and very friendly. I have done this many times and worth the expence of no hassel.

I do hear that the Laos Consulate office are more friendly [and you can mostly go by train] than Kuala Lumpor office in Malaysia. The one reason I do go home to my home country is that the Thai Immigration are always shifting the goal posts with the paperwork and what they perceive as the correct way of doing things correctly. Call me lazy but I work in malaysia too and find they can get abit authoritarian.

Most embassies/consulates in the region will not issue multi-entry Non-O visas, as they expect you to extend permission to stay at immigration in Thailand. KL and Penang are exceptions.

I agree KL and Penang are very good and also is Perth and Brisbane if you can affort to fly to Perth or Brisbane you will get it based on my experience and other friends wish you all the best

[PPG]

What a day! The saga continues.

I'm currently going through the process of getting legal custody of my daughter, with my ex gf's full consent.

Can anyone explain the exact process of doing this?

Today I went to the Wattana district office in Bangkok which is listed on her birth certificate, and after looking at me blankly for a while and a confused conversation with the ex gf, the official directed me back to the UK Embassy to get a letter of declaration stating I am her father ( despite this already being written on the birth certificate). I will pick this up on Wednesday.

What is the next step? I couldn't get much sense out of my ex who the official spoke with. Which office would we we need to visit to get the letter?

And next issue... My current visa expires on Wednesday, so I'm going to fly out to Malaysia to attempt to get a 3-month non 'o' based on the documentation I have already which includes......:

Letter from her School stating I'm her father and she attends said school

Lease from my apartment showing both our names on the contract

House Register which shows my name as father

Birth certificate ( again, my name is shown)

Letter from her mother saying I'm taking care of her

Letter from the Embassy stating I'm her father

Bangkok Bank book with around B60,000

But no letter from the government stating I have custody - because I won't get that in time as explained above

So two questions...

1. Do you foresee any issues?

2. Which consulate is more ‘visa happy’ these days.... Penang or KL?

Thanks very much for all your help so far....

PPG

[lopburi3]

The single entry visa should not be a problem with that amount of paperwork. The custody issue is an extension of stay issue with Immigration - not an issue for visa issue by a Consulate.

Most people seem to be using KL currently.

[Mario2008]

A recent report stated that KL wants to see over 100,000 in the bank before they will issue a multiple non-O. (They told the person making the report that next time he would have to show 100K or they would only give a single entry. You might be OK the first time). So you could try the multiple, to give you some more time.

At the amphur you can get a form stating one has custody of the child: Por Kor 14 form

From Thai Ministry of foreign affairs: http://www.mfa.go.th/web/473.php?id=3167

If the applicant was born to parents who did not sign a marriage certificate, only the mother of the applicant can sign the parental consent form. She will need to bring a letter guaranteeing sole guardianship issued by her domicile district office (Por Kor 14) accompanied by her ID Card which must bear the title ‘Miss’.