Automatic Scooters, How Long Do They Last?

[justchillin]

I'm the process of buying an Automatic Scooter. I've looked at new and second hand, my preference at the moment is the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance as it seems to the be the biggest (I'm not small) without jumping up to the next price range.

I've had a look around for a second hand one and Dealers are charging extra for a warranty, saying there's a risk with all auto's not lasting. Is this a pitch to pay extra or do they really fail that often. If they do, then perhaps I should buy new and get a manufacturers warranty or avoid the auto thing, or Yamaha all together.

Has anyone had one for long enough to comment?

[JUDAS]

Can't give you any direct knowledge about the Yammy, but have never heard of any problems with the auto transmission from owners I know. I actually have 32 Honda Clicks and never a single mechanical issue of any consequence, changed maybe 4-5 batteries over the last few years. Maybe have a look at the Honda Airblade though it's still slightly smaller than the Elegance, I think.

Like any bike, maintenance is the key and also a money saver in the long term.

[guzzi850m2]

Judas is right.

Follow the manual regarding oil change etc, and better change oil earlier than late.

It it breaks down it will be relatively cheap to fix compared to Europe and other places. I am thinking spare-parts prices and work labour.

It is a very cheap commuter vehicle so don't worry too much about it.

My wife have a Fino and I am sure it will still be running in 10 years time, but we will probably have bought something new in the meantime, who knows.

[thaicbr]

Give ya an idea. My friends Suzuki transmission failed. And it cost her 1,250b to fix. Not sure what it was that was wrong, Guessing a belt failure. As long as the bike is standard i don't think Auto's are a problem, unless they have been Thaid.

[justchillin]

Thanks for your advice, I had an auto box blow up on a car once, it cost as much as the car to fix. I would imagine that all of the big manufacturers should be making pretty reliable machines but these comments came from several second hand dealers. Now I've checked, I'll go back and have a closer look, a low mileage, non modified example, from what you're saying should be OK.

[LivinLOS]

We have a bunch of nuovo MX's and airblade for rent..

All of the autos (to me) are far shorter lifespans than manuals.. And require lots more fiddling and repairs. By 20k kms they start needing a lot and by 30 plus they are down to really reducing rental profits due to service needs. CVT belts, the balance weights, etc etc just a pain. By contrast I have an old beater of a kwaker with over 60k kms on it and all it needs is oil and tyres.

The elegance is by far the best of the bunch in the thai priced autos.. But still I would have a zx130 every time.

[PeaceBlondie]

Aren't some automatics very thirsty?

[petertucker48]

Yamaha Nouvo Elegance as it seems to the be the biggest (I'm not small) without jumping up to the next price range.

Hi,

I,ve had a Nouvo since 2005 I weigh 64Kgs and have no problems,how ever with the GF on back (total weight 118 Kgs) the bike is slow to accelerate and drinks a lot of Petrol.

I lent my bike to a bigger guy ( ≤95 Kgs) and it came back making strange sounds in the rear !!!

If as you say "you,re not small" may I suggest a 130 or 150 cc manual say Honda Sonic with a decent set of wider tyres and possibly a higher set of handle bars for comfort.(I have done this now its a great bike, no good for shopping yet, until I get a top box)

Or even 135cc Semi automatic eg Honda Wave 135.

[CHdiver]

I have a Nuovo, 4 years old and 25k on the meter. Runs nice and beside of 2 headlights and a set of tyre nothing to replace till now. Warranty is included in the prize btw. however they where selling you most probably the theft Insurance for two years as an extra. Comunication problem me thinks.

[guzzi850m2]

Living LOS

Okay so your profit from rental decline after 20K km's due to maintenance on the autos.

How about a privately own/driven one, can't one say now my bike has reached the time (20-30K km) where I have to spend say 3000 bath on maintenance and the bike will be fine again, well it thats the case then its not too bad really.

[petertucker48]

Yamaha Nouvo Elegance as it seems to the be the biggest (I'm not small) without jumping up to the next price range.

Come on now how much "I,m not small" are you !!

[katabeachbum]

I'm the process of buying an Automatic Scooter. I've looked at new and second hand, my preference at the moment is the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance as it seems to the be the biggest (I'm not small) without jumping up to the next price range.

I've had a look around for a second hand one and Dealers are charging extra for a warranty, saying there's a risk with all auto's not lasting. Is this a pitch to pay extra or do they really fail that often. If they do, then perhaps I should buy new and get a manufacturers warranty or avoid the auto thing, or Yamaha all together.

Has anyone had one for long enough to comment?

6 years with yammy autos. Replace belt at 35-50k km at 990 baht. battery lasts 2-3 years. No other issues. at all. 5 nuovo, 3 mio.

Elegance only 1,5 year, but auto is much larger so should last longer than above.

Elegance with mag rims has much better tubeless tires, not one flat in 1,5 years on our 3 Elegances.

[LivinLOS]

Or even 135cc Semi automatic eg Honda Wave 135.

No wave 135..

There is a yamaha spark 135 and its X1R sport 135. Also a Kwaker ZX130 which is noticably stronger.

I am 105 - 110kg.. Then plus my GF we combine to 150kg.. An auto and a hill is a struggle.

[JUDAS]

Aren't some automatics very thirsty?

Indeed they are PB though the newer injection models are much more economical.

[jackcorbett]

I am now on my 2nd Yamaha Nouvo. This one's the new model Elegance and I'm calling it the new model because the paint alone seems to have changed but to my mind, the latest Nouvo Elegances are far prettier than the bikes from the previous year although all share the same 135 c.c. liquid cooled engine and other mechanicals.

Before this bike I had the Nouvo air cooled 115 c.c. MX. I had no flat tires. Had to replace a headlamp bulb and I did have new tires put on it at around 9000 km for a lot less than 2000 baht. Didn't need to really. I just wanted 100 % out of my tires. Replaced a brake pad in the rear for around 180 baht. This bike started every time. It never failed me, and as you can see, maintenance was next to nothing for the three years and 13,000 kilometers I had it. The bike's new owner reports nothing's gone wrong with it and it still drives extremely well.

As good as it was, the new Nouvo Elegance is a terrific step upwards. Its much quieter, it has nearly 25 % more horsepower, and its handling is substantially more refined. Now here's the way I look at it. I would have probably had the drive belt replaced in my old bike at 20,000 kilometers. That's around 1000 baht or $30.00 U.S. But I would have had my bike for 4 years so that's about $15.00 U.S. per year for transmission maintenance. Let's get real guys. Repairs for most of us here? When you compare this to what it costs to maintain a car in the U.S. what repairs? What maintenance? And after this bike's three years old I'll probably want to get a new bike anyway. And who knows what we will have to choose from then.

When I get back from our trip to Vietnam I'm going to rent a 250 Ninja for a day or two just for shits and grins. I'm sure I'll love it. But these new Yamaha Nouvos are the real berries for everyday driving in and around Pattaya. There are no adjustments to be made to a chain, no oil and no mess. They are quite easy to keep clean. You just get on them and go. Want to pick up a few books on the way, just put them under the seat. Its a dream to drive due to its ample power, fine handling for getting around in this area and user friendliness, especially in traffic because all you have to do is twist the throttle and reel the power in.

[LivinLOS]

And after this bike's three years old I'll probably want to get a new bike anyway. And who knows what we will have to choose from then.

But thats the difference between a buyer and a rental.. You buy it.. Owned it for 13k kms.. I am guessing maybe 1 - 2 years.. And lost probably 30k on sale (I can buy plenty at 20k or 25k for a clean one.. Last time I bought a 16,000 km used one for 16k baht)..

So your onto 30k depreciation over a couple of years.. Thats a big deal on rental where your getting 3000 - 3500 per month and maybe only rented 2/3rd of the year..

[BSJ]

Thanks for your advice, I had an auto box blow up on a car once, it cost as much as the car to fix. I would imagine that all of the big manufacturers should be making pretty reliable machines but these comments came from several second hand dealers. Now I've checked, I'll go back and have a closer look, a low mileage, non modified example, from what you're saying should be OK.

Hi Justchillin, it's like comparing cheese to chalk when you compare an auto in a car to an auto in a scooter. The auto in the scooter when it comes down to it is basically a centrifugal clutch, 2 plates, a few springs and a belt! The official name for them is Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) and from memory the first use was in a DAF (Dutch Auto Factory) micro car back in the early seventies.

[TheVinylMan]

I have just bought the new nuovo elegance and its a great bike the only thing i dont like are the factory supplied tyres on the mag wheels because they are bloody awful in the wet weather other than that its great and quite good on petrol

With regards to the auto box you see many of the motor bike taxis with them> do you think they would use them if there was a big mechanical problem?

Edited September 16, 2009 by TheVinylMan

[LivinLOS]

With regards to the auto box you see many of the motor bike taxis with them> do you think they would use them if there was a big mechanical problem?

Really ?? I nearly never see MB taxis on autos..

Waves.. Sonics.. Dreams.. All manner of geared bikes but almost never on an auto.

[jackcorbett]

And after this bike's three years old I'll probably want to get a new bike anyway. And who knows what we will have to choose from then.

But thats the difference between a buyer and a rental.. You buy it.. Owned it for 13k kms.. I am guessing maybe 1 - 2 years.. And lost probably 30k on sale (I can buy plenty at 20k or 25k for a clean one.. Last time I bought a 16,000 km used one for 16k baht)..

So your onto 30k depreciation over a couple of years.. Thats a big deal on rental where your getting 3000 - 3500 per month and maybe only rented 2/3rd of the year..

I got 3 full years out of my first Nouvo. It cost me 53,000 baht and I got 19,000 baht on the resale to my neighbor who knew the bike, felt it had been maintained well and therefore represented excellent value to him. So there's 34,000 baht depreciation cost or about 11,000 baht per year. That's a bit more than $300 U.S. and when we compare such costs with the maintenance costs to car ownership in the U.S. we are driving practically for free.

Your situation is completely different as you are pointing out as you are in the rental business. For one thing I'm sure the mileage really gets piled onto your rental bikes. Therefore a difference in maintenance costs that might be negligible for most bike owners will most likely be quite a bit more per bike in your inventory. Multiply such a difference times the total number of bikes you have to rent out and it's going to make a big difference. Also for anyone in the rental business who's buying a new bike to rent out is looking at around 53,000 baht for a new Nouvo versus 40,000 for a Honda Wave.

As for motorbike taxi drivers, almost all of them would prefer laying out just 40,000 baht for a Wave to putting up 53,000 for a Nouvo. The Waves are also more economical and this will make a big difference to a Thai who's working for Thai wages. An ex Thai girlfriend of mine said, "The only reason a Thai would prefer a manual transmission Honda Wave to an automatic is if they can't afford the automatic." This is not true for most Westerners who live here. If I put 120 baht of gas in my Nouvo per week, that might be a lot more than I'd be putting into a manual transmission Wave but this is still less than 4 bucks a week or $16.00 a month. So either way one goes it's dirt cheap. Now a Mio might cost 40,000 baht versus 53,000 baht for a Nouvo. That's just 13,000 baht difference and over three years that's just over 4,000 baht. The same comparison is true with the Nouvo Elegance over manual transmission Waves. That difference is trivial for those on Western budgets. I think the Nouvo Elegance is easily the king of automatics and that this additional one hundred dollars a year is a pittance when one takes into account the greater road worthiness of the Elegance over smaller tired, lighter, less powerful Mios, Clicks, and Finos with their single spring rear suspensions and much smaller under the seat storage capacities.

[justchillin]

Thanks again, I guess I was just looking for some confirmation before taking the plunge. I bought my wife a Honda Wave five years ago which immediately became her families main run about. I don't think its ever seen a Honda dealer since the day it was bought, its now on 90k, it makes some horrible grinding noises sometimes but still runs up and down their local hill. These one gear auto's seem to be fairly recent so I was just digging for some user feedback. I had another look around at some second hand examples this morning, and I'll probably opt for a new one and look after it. Thanks for taking the time to share your opinions.

[LivinLOS]

As for motorbike taxi drivers, almost all of them would prefer laying out just 40,000 baht for a Wave to putting up 53,000 for a Nouvo. The Waves are also more economical and this will make a big difference to a Thai who's working for Thai wages. An ex Thai girlfriend of mine said, "The only reason a Thai would prefer a manual transmission Honda Wave to an automatic is if they can't afford the automatic." This is not true for most Westerners who live here. If I put 120 baht of gas in my Nouvo per week, that might be a lot more than I'd be putting into a manual transmission Wave but this is still less than 4 bucks a week or $16.00 a month. So either way one goes it's dirt cheap. Now a Mio might cost 40,000 baht versus 53,000 baht for a Nouvo. That's just 13,000 baht difference and over three years that's just over 4,000 baht. The same comparison is true with the Nouvo Elegance over manual transmission Waves. That difference is trivial for those on Western budgets.

Then why do you routinely see guys in raiders ?? Thats a 55 odd thousand baht bike.. More expensive than a standard nuovo..

The reason MB taxis are on dreams / waves / sonics and raiders is they are a workhorse, they go further on less maintenance, they use less fuel, they have stronger engines (auto +- 20 % drive train loss in a CVT) and the bikes themselves last longer by a factor of years. The price on a 125i wave is 48500 which is just 2000 baht less than a Nuovo MX its MORE than a lot of the autos (mios / finos / skydrives / steps / etc) yet you dont see MB taxis on those but they are cheaper !! The whole idea these guys are riding a manual as they are cheaper to buy doesnt fit.

Also (and I dont mean this in a nasty fashion) I would question a Thai womans knowledge of mechanical engineering and factor in a big fat dollop of status obsession when it comes to 'shiny new auto' bikes over the 'poor farmers' wave.. Just because a TG thinks 'only poor people would ride that' when the bike itself costs more isnt seeing the wood for the trees.

I think the Nouvo Elegance is easily the king of automatics

Compared to the T-Max ?? I guess you mean king of the cheapies.

I agree tho.. The elegance is the best of the cheap bunch by a wide wide margin.. I just really hate them all, I live with steep hills all around me, I hate that theres no engine braking, I hate the freewheel stop / go on / off power feeling which feels so out of control (I guess 150 kg of me and the GF is a lot of strain for the brakes alone), I hate the single rev drone of a CVT.. I hate not being able to change down approaching a corner, or use the engine to control speeds on the downside of a steep hill. I understand if you only live in an urban flat area, to go to the 7/11 run etc they full fill a need, but if you have hills, or ride around the island gears simply win for me in every time. with no consideration of money I would take a 125 wave or pref a zx130 or X1R 135 spark over any auto even if I was being given it for free.

In fact its always an annoyance to me that the design focus all seems to be moving to the autos and none of the manuals are being made larger, more cc, more under seat room and storage.. The elegance has nice design details and its got good storage, if I just had some gears and not that slushbox I would be happy.

[Surfing Spleen]

I have just bought the new nuovo elegance and its a great bike the only thing i dont like are the factory supplied tyres on the mag wheels because they are bloody awful in the wet weather other than that its great and quite good on petrol

With regards to the auto box you see many of the motor bike taxis with them> do you think they would use them if there was a big mechanical problem?

I have the same; 2009 Nouvo with the mag wheels and I tend to slide around on wet roads too. Anybody have suggestions on an upgrade to stickier tires? I was also looking to get a bigger wheel for the rear.

[jackcorbett]

The reason MB taxis are on dreams / waves / sonics and raiders is they are a workhorse, they go further on less maintenance, they use less fuel, they have stronger engines (auto +- 20 % drive train loss in a CVT) and the bikes themselves last longer by a factor of years. The price on a 125i wave is 48500 which is just 2000 baht less than a Nuovo MX its MORE than a lot of the autos (mios / finos / skydrives / steps / etc) yet you dont see MB taxis on those but they are cheaper !! The whole idea these guys are riding a manual as they are cheaper to buy doesnt fit.

Also (and I dont mean this in a nasty fashion) I would question a Thai womans knowledge of mechanical engineering and factor in a big fat dollop of status obsession when it comes to 'shiny new auto' bikes over the 'poor farmers' wave.. Just because a TG thinks 'only poor people would ride that' when the bike itself costs more isnt seeing the wood for the trees.

I think the Nouvo Elegance is easily the king of automatics

Compared to the T-Max ?? I guess you mean king of the cheapies.

I agree tho.. The elegance is the best of the cheap bunch by a wide wide margin.. I just really hate them all, I live with steep hills all around me, I hate that theres no engine braking, I hate the freewheel stop / go on / off power feeling which feels so out of control (I guess 150 kg of me and the GF is a lot of strain for the brakes alone), I hate the single rev drone of a CVT.. I hate not being able to change down approaching a corner, or use the engine to control speeds on the downside of a steep hill. I understand if you only live in an urban flat area, to go to the 7/11 run etc they full fill a need, but if you have hills, or ride around the island gears simply win for me in every time. with no consideration of money I would take a 125 wave or pref a zx130 or X1R 135 spark over any auto even if I was being given it for free.

In fact its always an annoyance to me that the design focus all seems to be moving to the autos and none of the manuals are being made larger, more cc, more under seat room and storage.. The elegance has nice design details and its got good storage, if I just had some gears and not that slushbox I would be happy.

Mios, Finos, and Honda Clicks are neat little bikes, but hardly as robust as a Nouvo or an Airblade. First, they have smaller tires. Therefore they are not as stable. Second, they have just one spring in the back for a shock absorber. This might be fine for most situations but it certainly does not put them in the same category as the Airblade or Nouvo. Also it's a moot point what taxi drivers use. One reason alone is the fuel savings alone will convince them to go manual over automatic. Also, for all we know most taxi drivers might be buying used bikes rather than new to keep their costs down.

As for the ex Thai girlfriend not knowing anything about machinery she specifically mentioned chains, sprockets and spoke disparagingly about them as being more problem prone than automatic gearboxes. And in fact this was verified in part by a Honda dealership telling me that they replace chains twice as often as they replace belts on the automatics.

Lastly I'm with you on using a manual gearbox to brake down hills. I once drove from Aspen, Colorado to Sun Valley, Idaho in a snow storm. Had a VW diesel with a manual transmission and I think I would have been in serious trouble on those mountain roads had I had an automatic. I'd probably prefer a larger bike with manual transmission in many other places in Thailand. But here in Pattaya, I really believe the Nouvo Elegance is the king. As for the Trimax being king, it has excellent reviews in the motorcyle magazines and 100 miles per hour top speed. Great for American highways, but it's overkill for around here and I think it's too wide and bulky to be able to slither through narrow gaps in Thailand city traffic as well as the Nouvo can.

[LivinLOS]

Mios, Finos, and Honda Clicks are neat little bikes, but hardly as robust as a Nouvo or an Airblade. First, they have smaller tires. Therefore they are not as stable. Second, they have just one spring in the back for a shock absorber. This might be fine for most situations but it certainly does not put them in the same category as the Airblade or Nouvo.

Like my 900 blade you mean.. And the point is ??

Nothing at all wrong with a monoshock.. LOADS of real proper bikes are monoshock. From dirtbikes to streetbikes.. I fail to see your point.

Also it's a moot point what taxi drivers use. One reason alone is the fuel savings alone will convince them to go manual over automatic. Also, for all we know most taxi drivers might be buying used bikes rather than new to keep their costs down.

Just defending the point that 'anyone with money would buy a auto' by showing that professionals.. People that need to use the bikes day in day out.. For whom the strength, reliability, and performance are big issues.. DONT buy autos. Even tho the autos are cheaper than the bikes they do buy (raiders / sonics / even the wave)..

[jackcorbett]

Mios, Finos, and Honda Clicks are neat little bikes, but hardly as robust as a Nouvo or an Airblade. First, they have smaller tires. Therefore they are not as stable. Second, they have just one spring in the back for a shock absorber. This might be fine for most situations but it certainly does not put them in the same category as the Airblade or Nouvo.

Like my 900 blade you mean.. And the point is ??

Nothing at all wrong with a monoshock.. LOADS of real proper bikes are monoshock. From dirtbikes to streetbikes.. I fail to see your point.

Also it's a moot point what taxi drivers use. One reason alone is the fuel savings alone will convince them to go manual over automatic. Also, for all we know most taxi drivers might be buying used bikes rather than new to keep their costs down.

Just defending the point that 'anyone with money would buy a auto' by showing that professionals.. People that need to use the bikes day in day out.. For whom the strength, reliability, and performance are big issues.. DONT buy autos. Even tho the autos are cheaper than the bikes they do buy (raiders / sonics / even the wave)..

The point is your 900 Blade is a lot more expensive than either a Nouvo or a Mio. It is an entirely different animal. Sure it's stable. It's designed to go over 130 miles an hour. Although the Nouvo is higher priced than a Mio and the like it's not all that much more. And although it's nowhere near as capable on the open road as a 900 Blade, it's significantly more capable than the smaller bikes. And as far as Mono shocks, the single spring on the Mios, Finos and Clicks appears to be the same size as the springs used on a Honda Wave that uses two springs in the rear. If it was larger and stronger, I'd say, okay...not too shabby. But I thihk both Yamaha and Honda built such bikes for smaller riders while having larger riders in mind for the Nouvo. And they employed a single shock because it was cheaper for them to do so. There's a number of other cost cutting measures both companies have adopted for these smaller bikes and that's why they can sell them for 40,000 baht or so instead of 52,000. And as for Honda Waves and even Yamaha 135 c.c. Sparks, they have substantially narrower tires than the Nouvos have. That means less rubber on the ground and less stability. Also their seats are quite a bit narrower and less comfortable.

As to motorbike taxi drivers I hardly call them professionals except for the fact they get paid for driving people around. Just look at the way most of them drive. Not all are but most of them are the least law abiding drivers in Pattaya. They consistently show serious lack of judgment while driving, and they are some of the ruddest drivers out there. For the most part they are guys who can't get jobs doing anything else and to call them professionals is like calling a mouse a scientist.

Edited September 16, 2009 by jackcorbett

[jubby]

I got one of the first Nouvo's , I think about 5 or maybe more years ago. I left it when it was almost new for 6 months while I was back in the UK. I've had nothing but problems since. Mainly a problem with the starter motor. Sometimes it worked sometimes not. Just last week managed to find someone who could fix it properly instead of just changing the F^%ing Battery.

Anyway, Its running fine now. The new model is probably a diffferent vehicle altogether though.

If your going to use it regularly (daily) then you shouldn't have any problems.

[LivinLOS]

As to motorbike taxi drivers I hardly call them professionals except for the fact they get paid for driving people around.

I think you just made my point for me.

[jackcorbett]

As to motorbike taxi drivers I hardly call them professionals except for the fact they get paid for driving people around.

I think you just made my point for me.

And one of mine is they are paid because no one in their right minds is willing to pay them for doing practically anything else--including thinking. I would no more drive what motorbike taxi drivers drive than I would want to emulate their deplorable driving habits.

Incidentally, lately I've noticed large numbers of Nouvo Elegance 135 c.c. bikes in places that are heavily trafficked by Westerners. One example is my favorite bar here in Naklua. There were five Yamaha Nouvos parked in front. I'd say there were ten motorbikes total lined up in front of the place. And yesterday afternoon the Elegances were lined up in front of Carre Four. I am suggesting more and more the word is getting out with Westerners living here in Pattaya that the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance is the pick of the litter.

[katabeachbum]

As to motorbike taxi drivers I hardly call them professionals except for the fact they get paid for driving people around.

I think you just made my point for me.

And one of mine is they are paid because no one in their right minds is willing to pay them for doing practically anything else--including thinking. I would no more drive what motorbike taxi drivers drive than I would want to emulate their deplorable driving habits.

Incidentally, lately I've noticed large numbers of Nouvo Elegance 135 c.c. bikes in places that are heavily trafficked by Westerners. One example is my favorite bar here in Naklua. There were five Yamaha Nouvos parked in front. I'd say there were ten motorbikes total lined up in front of the place. And yesterday afternoon the Elegances were lined up in front of Carre Four. I am suggesting more and more the word is getting out with Westerners living here in Pattaya that the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance is the pick of the litter.

My gf got a new Airblade injection 2 months ago. She loves the color I was expecting some power with the injection engine, but my Elegance 135cc is just much faster and stronger.

My first Nuovo MX is 4,5 years old by now. Presently used daily by 3 teenage girls to and from school countryside 60 km a day. Still not replaced autobelt at 52k km. Only replaced battery, sparkplug, airfilter, tyres and lightbulbs.