And Now More Scamming Gets Legalized !

[wolf5370]

Im going to Thailand for the first time and I didnt know about these scams. Neighter did I know about the jet ski scams. Im scandinavian, and here we have heard nothing about it. Thanks to this forum I now know, and will be aware of it.

The problem with the post above is that "everywhere else" you know what to pay. In Phuket you dont. I for sure gonne ask again and again and see the drink meny before I buy anything.

There are many nice places in this world, so if I get scammed this will be my last visit to thailand.

There are also many better places to visit IN Thailand than Phuket, where they are not completely run by the various 'outfits' (Songteaw TukTuk mafia, Jet Ski mafia, mafia this mafia that). Any tourist destination in the world will have conmen and scammers because they follow the money, but it doesn't mean you have to head for the nearest sewer.

[LivinLOS]

Is a scam a scam if it is evident? Are these tourists really that unsuspecting? I think if you did a random stop and question of 10 tourists on Bangla, and asked if they were aware of the touts, scams, tricks & pickpockets, the answer in all cases would be yes. I used to be one of the people that felt for the "victims" on Bangla, but those people are there to take advantage of the Bangla scene. These men that go to the go-go's are doing so because they think it's a great idea to go drool at impoverished women shaking their titties for a couple pound/euro/dollars. Sorry, I just can't feel bad for them. Back home they would pay 5-10X as much. After you factor in all the little surcharges and hidden costs, it comes out as a same-same deal, so are they really getting ripped off?

Yes they are being ripped off.. Its a simple case of trickery.. If they knew the price of the beer they wouldnt order..

Also the touts follow people and when the people go in a place entirely of thier own choosing they 'claim' that customer and collect the surcharge.

ok, so there are are drug dealers and crime syndicates running the operations. Yes. That's the nature of the business. That's what the scene is worldwide. Why is Thailand held to a different standard? When you go into one of these clubs elsewhere you are most likely patronizing organized crime operations. If you don't like that, then do not do it.

Because its the police running the criminals !! Because the police take payment to look the other way on drug dealing and violence and intimidation.. Becuase the people paid to stop this are the ones perpetrating it.. The same ones making a big deal about JJ the jetski guy and clampdowns on scams are while they say that PR <deleted> actually doing the exact opposite.

Oh sure, I can see people saying but they added on xxx baht. Look a it a different way. If you were somewhere else, you would be paying a steep entry fee, the drinks would be significantly more expensive and if you didn't tip you would get pounded. Part of that reason is due to things like taxes and overhead costs. In Thailand, the tax collection to pay for policing works differently. It's a user pay service if you will. Overhead is paid for differently. The Thai approach might actually be more efficient as there is less bureaucracy attached to the collection of the extra fees so costs are actually kept lower. Look at these customers. Take a really good look at them. Would you want them in your own home? Would you let them near your family acting like they do? I don't think so. So consider the added costs as additional fees to handle misbehaving gimps

Its more akin to a standover operation and taking money as a collection racket.. But done by the police !! The touts dont act as gogo security they act only for their own interests.

The gogos dont want them.. The customers dont want them.. They provide no service.. They simply scam !!

As to the behaviour in gogos most gogo patrons are often less roudy and drunk than your average bangla street frontage bar customers.. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about people going to places of adult entertainment, in which case perhaps they should shut down Bangla ?? Send all the girls back to farm rice ?? Etc etc.

[LivinLOS]

I didn't think that Suzys participated in the tout scheme.

Mitch, have you read any of the above posts mate? I wasn't blaming Suzy's. They participate because they have no choice. IE: they are not willing participants. Believe me I have seen it first hand. If they don't participate they get bullets coming through the front door like at Spicy. As was mentioned earlier and in many other threats, the touts don't work for the clubs, they are thier own entity, now licensed, and the club owners don't like them.

I believe that at one time they and the sister bar refused to pay the touts. I assume that has now changed following the physical damage and threats mentioned on here and other threads. I am fully aware of the system. I've never looked over my shoulder going in there before (NB I am only an occasional visitor) but now I will heed the warning.

I was of the understanding that SW's and CG's still did not accept touts.. But that his 3rd operation he had to..

[madmitch]

Is a scam a scam if it is evident? Are these tourists really that unsuspecting? I think if you did a random stop and question of 10 tourists on Bangla, and asked if they were aware of the touts, scams, tricks & pickpockets, the answer in all cases would be yes. I used to be one of the people that felt for the "victims" on Bangla, but those people are there to take advantage of the Bangla scene. These men that go to the go-go's are doing so because they think it's a great idea to go drool at impoverished women shaking their titties for a couple pound/euro/dollars. Sorry, I just can't feel bad for them. Back home they would pay 5-10X as much. After you factor in all the little surcharges and hidden costs, it comes out as a same-same deal, so are they really getting ripped off?

ok, so there are are drug dealers and crime syndicates running the operations. Yes. That's the nature of the business. That's what the scene is worldwide. Why is Thailand held to a different standard? When you go into one of these clubs elsewhere you are most likely patronizing organized crime operations. If you don't like that, then do not do it.

Oh sure, I can see people saying but they added on xxx baht. Look a it a different way. If you were somewhere else, you would be paying a steep entry fee, the drinks would be significantly more expensive and if you didn't tip you would get pounded. Part of that reason is due to things like taxes and overhead costs. In Thailand, the tax collection to pay for policing works differently. It's a user pay service if you will. Overhead is paid for differently. The Thai approach might actually be more efficient as there is less bureaucracy attached to the collection of the extra fees so costs are actually kept lower. Look at these customers. Take a really good look at them. Would you want them in your own home? Would you let them near your family acting like they do? I don't think so. So consider the added costs as additional fees to handle misbehaving gimps

Well spoken and absolutely correct ..

five to ten times as much? That's 2,500 to 5,000 baht for a drink! What's the equivalent back home anyway? I don't know anywhere in Europe or North America with ping pong shows or a-gogo bars. Lap-dancing clubs? Striptease pubs? Expensive, yes, but not 50 to 100 GBP for a drink! I have known of scams in Soho in London but there is one major issue here: the money is not going to the bar. It's going toa bunch of unwanted pain in the butt chancers who nobody wants around in the first place.

As for the customers, yes you get your fair share of lowlifes, rowdies and probably perverts but last time I went into Spicy Bar, the time I told the tout following me where to go, it was full of regular guys and couples. For some people a visit to a gogo bar is just part of the holiday in Thailand. The only time I go into these places is when I am with visitors to Phuket and even then I usually restrict myself to Suzy Wong's.

I fail to see how even the most avid Thailand defenders can condone this type of scam.

[gilmore34]

Maybe a stupid question, but is this just for the go go bars, or is it the same system for beer bars and other bars too?

[HOPALONG]

P-ss of back home ?? Fresh of the plane are we ??

I have lived here longer than I have lived any single place on earth. Wheres home ?? Was born in one country, moved to another while a toddler.. To a 3rd when about 4 (where my passport is from) and since being 16 have lived all over mainland europe, a stint stateside, some time in north Africa.. So please tell me.. Where am I booking this ticket to again ??

When you live here long enough, have a wife here, pay your taxes here, run businesses here, etc etc you are not 'a visitor'.. Thailand IS home.

Wow man "jai yen yen" Why all the venom?

Me. Fresh off the plane?? I came here on a 707..figure how long ago that is!

Hey i have had business[es] here and sold up way back because of expected tea money etc, etc..compr

ey?

I also still pay taxes, i also have wife and children[now grown] and probably have done alot more in Thailand , not just on this island than you could ever immagine or hope to do.

This is my business but i tell you the basics so you don't make the same generalisation again.ok,but essentially non of your business.Just to let you know the facts!As for my being a Thai..the above should correct your way off presumption ..plus i'd probably be the only 185cm,95 k thai around..lol.Iam a westerner but love and remember the old thailand..so here i stay forever..but i can at least acknowlege that ,even if i live here another 20 years i am still a visiter[very long term] but still a visitor!

To me being a visiter means respecting your host[thailand] and MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS..If i am a visiter in someones house and they do things that i don't like, i have got absolutely no right to correct them..I have the same choice as all of you...Stay and accept things or [as i have done a couple of times]..go home get the reality check..it IS the same everywhere ok .Like i said 'if you can fix it..fix it..but you can not you have to learn to live with it!

The point i am making is exactly as i said earlier.You can huff and puff about , not just this issue but the dozens of similar scams going on all over tourist orientated areas,and as a matter of fact all over the world in some form or other.

Do any of you really think that talking tough on a forum is going to change any of these deeply ingrained behaviours..get real.

Go to italy or usa and stop the mafia..go to hong kong and stop the triads..go to gold coast.. NO1 tourist strip in aust...stop the bikies gangs..etc,etc,etc..impossible Try stopping it in any of these countries and you're likely to not be able to communicate any more.The SINGLE difference to all the other counties is that here it is 'in your face'.. Likely here also ,when inevitably, shortly, times get harder,and the 'collecters' from the top to the bottom still expect their cut. This is going to escalate!

You all think that clown jj was something...he's nothing in the grand scale of things... a minow!

Face facts !! like myself..i don't care how long you live somewhere ,even paying taxes and having family,unless you go the whole hog and become naturalised and have a passport from that country,and have the power of the VOTE..you have very little say in what goes on ..sorry, cold, hard fact..no doubt some of you will not agree...entirely up to you!

I hope now that you understand what i was saying and keep any replies more civil huh!

One other thing for all you other 'longterm visiters'..QUERY; When the sh-t does hit the fan here eventually, do you think your longterm hosts are going to help you? Not likely people! If you expect that you are in for a reality check..big time.

Plan B...suddenly remember your real HOME country and call your embassy...Yes, most likely scenario i think.

Well, to the moderator and all the other triggerhappy posters who came out 'all guns blazing'..i hope you take the time,this time to conprehend what i have put to you and really hope that no sensitive souls have been offended.

Chill out,life goes on and T/land really is a beautiful place to be..enjoy the good stuff, forget the rest....life is too short.

[steelepulse]

If you have resided here, pay taxes here, have a family here, own a home here, are you really a visitor as defined by any thesaurus or dictionary? I'd say not.

What about immigrants from other countries that move to the UK, pay their taxes, raise their families, wait for citizenship (which of course foreigners can't do here without jumping through hoops), are they "visitors" for 20 years also or is there perhaps another term?

Please help me as I'm lost on the definition of a "visitor".

[HOPALONG]

I think HOPALONG is either a bar owner, a jet ski opp, or a memer of the police. Whoever he is he is not on the same planet as me. Obviousely Thai comeing out with that drivel havn't we heared these words before ( if you dont like it go back to where you come from) if i had my way hopalong i wish everyone would f... off so you could get back to what you did before tourism and you were all living in bamboo houses. fishing and collecting bufaloe shit. Shame the thai seems have forgotton how much the west helped them after the tsunami. Wonder where they'd be now without it. Let me give you a word of advice hopalong Do not bite the hand that feeds you steal from him rip him off or scam him once you understand these rules feel free to post.

OOOHHH so wrong about me... but good to see how you feel aboutThais and Thailand..where does all this hate come from ? wwooowww.Take a deep breath my friend and go smell the roses of life....

Also so right about not being on the same planet as you...sounds like your planet is not a very nice place..a lot of pent up anger from your planet huh.....

Edited September 17, 2009 by HOPALONG

[HOPALONG]

If you have resided here, pay taxes here, have a family here, own a home here, are you really a visitor as defined by any thesaurus or dictionary? I'd say not.

What about immigrants from other countries that move to the UK, pay their taxes, raise their families, wait for citizenship (which of course foreigners can't do here without jumping through hoops), are they "visitors" for 20 years also or is there perhaps another term?

Please help me as I'm lost on the definition of a "visitor".

Well the powers that be call us ALIENS>>>im not sure either but we ain't CITIZENS!for certain.

[steelepulse]

So based on your logic, since we are aliens, we are visitors.  Is that correct?

[KevinBloodyWilson]

If you have resided here, pay taxes here, have a family here, own a home here, are you really a visitor as defined by any thesaurus or dictionary? I'd say not.

What about immigrants from other countries that move to the UK, pay their taxes, raise their families, wait for citizenship (which of course foreigners can't do here without jumping through hoops), are they "visitors" for 20 years also or is there perhaps another term?

Please help me as I'm lost on the definition of a "visitor".

I'm not sure that is the right point with Hopalong. he says we should have no interest and not get involved. I say we got involved when we came here, and not to have or want a stake in our new home is both lazy and negligent. Might suit some, doesn't suit me. The whole point about being a westerner is that we have a different culture and a different approach to life. The Thai may well see something wrong and think "Mai pen rai, not my problem", whereas the westerner will see something wrong and try to contribute to putting it right.

I won't be told I don't have a stake in my chosen place of residence, I won't be told that I should just accept what is obviously wrong and try to contribute to Thais making it better, if we all did that then the 3rd world would always be the third world and Thais would still be in the stone age because Thais haven't invented any of the things they use which have bought increased wealth to their country. People sharing and giving a dam_n is how 3rd world countries get out of the 3rd world.

Also, I won't be told what I should and should not think - all that stopped when I went out into the world and started earning my own living and it isn't going to change back. No matter how much Hopalong and his ilk thinks they know better.

[thaiwanderer]

I'm not sure that is the right point with Hopalong. he says we should have no interest and not get involved. I say we got involved when we came here, and not to have or want a stake in our new home is both lazy and negligent. Might suit some, doesn't suit me. The whole point about being a westerner is that we have a different culture and a different approach to life. The Thai may well see something wrong and think "Mai pen rai, not my problem", whereas the westerner will see something wrong and try to contribute to putting it right.

I won't be told I don't have a stake in my chosen place of residence, I won't be told that I should just accept what is obviously wrong and try to contribute to Thais making it better, if we all did that then the 3rd world would always be the third world and Thais would still be in the stone age because Thais haven't invented any of the things they use which have bought increased wealth to their country. People sharing and giving a dam_n is how 3rd world countries get out of the 3rd world.

Also, I won't be told what I should and should not think - all that stopped when I went out into the world and started earning my own living and it isn't going to change back. No matter how much Hopalong and his ilk thinks they know better.

So how exactly have you 'got involved' and 'contributed' to making things better?

[HOPALONG]

So based on your logic, since we are aliens, we are visitors. Is that correct?

Come again,,?What is up with you guys? CHILL OUT DUDE!

In my post i called US 'visiters'..long term or whatever, because as i also could not find another word that dercribes our status here...YOU tell me ..What are we called in this situation?

After your Query i replied that the powers that be call us aliens[look at any documentation concerning us and ALIEN is the term used]

Your question is definately not a LOGICAL one my friend.

Why is it that most of you have to come in,like i said earlier,with all guns blazing when you dont agree or just dont understand a simple statement..?

[HOPALONG]

If you have resided here, pay taxes here, have a family here, own a home here, are you really a visitor as defined by any thesaurus or dictionary? I'd say not.

What about immigrants from other countries that move to the UK, pay their taxes, raise their families, wait for citizenship (which of course foreigners can't do here without jumping through hoops), are they "visitors" for 20 years also or is there perhaps another term?

Please help me as I'm lost on the definition of a "visitor".

I'm not sure that is the right point with Hopalong. he says we should have no interest and not get involved. I say we got involved when we came here, and not to have or want a stake in our new home is both lazy and negligent. Might suit some, doesn't suit me. The whole point about being a westerner is that we have a different culture and a different approach to life. The Thai may well see something wrong and think "Mai pen rai, not my problem", whereas the westerner will see something wrong and try to contribute to putting it right.

I won't be told I don't have a stake in my chosen place of residence, I won't be told that I should just accept what is obviously wrong and try to contribute to Thais making it better, if we all did that then the 3rd world would always be the third world and Thais would still be in the stone age because Thais haven't invented any of the things they use which have bought increased wealth to their country. People sharing and giving a dam_n is how 3rd world countries get out of the 3rd world.

Also, I won't be told what I should and should not think - all that stopped when I went out into the world and started earning my own living and it isn't going to change back. No matter how much Hopalong and his ilk thinks they know better.

Another one who has not taken the time to READ what i said.

Where do i say"we should have no interest and not get involved"? NOWHERE omg..read it again man and consider exactly what i said...I am in total disagreement with what goes on here,but at least i have the intelligence to realise that banging your head on the floor only gives you a head ache..it does not change what THE THAIS DO IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY..Hello!!

If you want to huff and puff on a forum thats up to you,if you really believe that that will change the world ..ITS NOT...wake up .

IT is an excercise in futility ..ok..it may make you feel good but it is not going to change anything at all.

I also said that when and only when you are a citizen and can vote, you possibly may get change.

Regarding your statement along the lines of' westerners' having a different oulook and want to contribute to puting it right....fine do it in a western country if you feel the need..good on you!

You sound like the 18 centary missionaries out to 'save the poor savages around the world and give them a good dose of western civilisation" and [also give tham a good dose!]

You are entitled to want to drag Thailand out of 3rd world as you call it[T/land is in fact NOT a third world country, it is a DEVELOPING nation]

Wow , if any thai read this you can understand why most hate the westerners..replies like this and another in particular are far from helpfull to getting on together.

Like i keep on saying"appreciate all the good things here" You wanto play with the soi dogs ..you gonna get fleas..get it...enjoy..

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I'm not sure that is the right point with Hopalong. he says we should have no interest and not get involved. I say we got involved when we came here, and not to have or want a stake in our new home is both lazy and negligent. Might suit some, doesn't suit me. The whole point about being a westerner is that we have a different culture and a different approach to life. The Thai may well see something wrong and think "Mai pen rai, not my problem", whereas the westerner will see something wrong and try to contribute to putting it right.

I won't be told I don't have a stake in my chosen place of residence, I won't be told that I should just accept what is obviously wrong and try to contribute to Thais making it better, if we all did that then the 3rd world would always be the third world and Thais would still be in the stone age because Thais haven't invented any of the things they use which have bought increased wealth to their country. People sharing and giving a dam_n is how 3rd world countries get out of the 3rd world.

Also, I won't be told what I should and should not think - all that stopped when I went out into the world and started earning my own living and it isn't going to change back. No matter how much Hopalong and his ilk thinks they know better.

So how exactly have you 'got involved' and 'contributed' to making things better?

I pay taxes (a lot of taxes), my company pays taxes (a lot of taxes), I share thoughts and opinions with Thais (sometimes they agree, sometimes they do not agree, sometimes they think about my view).

I support a Thai family (as a friend, not because I met some bar girl), I send their kids to the schools the government won't send them to, I refurbished their home from a shanty into a decent house at a personal cost of nearly 1m THB, I employ 5 Thais (one more than I need to). I buy and distribute shirts to the poor kids in this tambon, which the government refuses to do or doesn't care enough to do. I teach free of charge at the local school, and I help to educate Thai kids who want to be educated in the ways of the world.

And I share my views in here, as do others. Because I give a dam_n and because I don't just sit on the sidelines whining that I am only a guest and it isn't my business. In short my friend, I get up off my ass and i put my money (and my time and effort) where my mouth is.

What have you done?

Edited September 18, 2009 by KevinBloodyWilson

[LivinginKata]

Ok guys. as we seemed to have moved a long way from 'Scamming gets Legalised' it's now time to close this topic before it once again turns into a slanging match and general troll.

Thanks for your contributions.