Thai Language Competency Test

[cysampan]

Does anyone know if or where the results of last year's Thai competency test are published?

many thanks, Cy.

[wasabi]

Anyone got an English translation of the test?

[kriswillems]

Does anyone know if or where the results of last year's Thai competency test are published?

many thanks, Cy.

They are not published. We just got a letter at home.

[cysampan]

Thanks Kris, that's what I meant. I accept what you say, but I think it's an odd test that you can neither pass nor fail, or know how you did in comparison with others. I think it will take many years before employers for instance will want to use the level gained, as the information is so scarce. I guess it's a personal thing.

[kriswillems]

Thanks Kris, that's what I meant. I accept what you say, but I think it's an odd test that you can neither pass nor fail, or know how you did in comparison with others. I think it will take many years before employers for instance will want to use the level gained, as the information is so scarce. I guess it's a personal thing.

I just got my score as a number between 1 and 6 for each of the skills.

I could compare with people from my school, but not with the whole group.

I think the scores they give are rather high (but most students are also well prepared).

I guess the average score for most subjects is between 3 and 4, maybe 3.5 or something.

If you want to have a peek at the scores of the students you could go to have a look in some of the better language schools.

You shouldn't do the test for any other reason than evaluating yourself and having a goal to work to. The diploma, as such, will probably not help you to find a job here.

[harrry]

The concept of Competency based Training and Assessmen for skills is not based on how you compare to others but on the capacity to perform the tasks asked. If you can perform the simpler tasks cometently you are assessed aas being competant at that level. This concept is similar to that used in Technical training in Australia and Europe of which I have had personal experience.l I do not know how much it is applied in the US.

Te level is not a grade. It is that you can perform competantly to that level.

[SoftWater]

The concept of Competency based Training and Assessmen for skills is not based on how you compare to others but on the capacity to perform the tasks asked. If you can perform the simpler tasks cometently you are assessed aas being competant at that level. This concept is similar to that used in Technical training in Australia and Europe of which I have had personal experience.l I do not know how much it is applied in the US.

Te level is not a grade. It is that you can perform competantly to that level.

Thanks Harry - I wish you'd tell the Thai Ministry of Education that. In Thailand, all the English tests that Thai students in state schools, colleges and univeristies do are 'norm-referenced' - which means the student gets a grade based on their percentile ranking and not according to whether they meet specific criteria set by native English speaking teachers. The result is that you have Thai students in universities getting As in English even though they can hardly hold down a 2-minute conversation (their A represents the fact that their English, no matter how bad, was better than all their classmates).

Not only is this a ridiculous way to assess someone's proficiency, it is also highly demotivating for the students. No matter how good the teacher, students recognise their relative abilities early on and few feel that they can get an A if it mean surpassing the top 10% of 'good' students. In the criteria-based system, everyone has an equal chance to get an A in principle, even if not in practice.

I'm not sure about the government Thai test. We sort of had this conversation on TV not long ago, where I think it was established that the test was a bit of both - there were basic competency levels but your were also ranked against each other (unfortunately, I didn't really understand how both ranking systems can be used together at the same time, so I'm not the one to explain how that works!).

[sorry if I've gone off topic - this is one of those educational issues that drives me nuts!]

[tombkk]

The concept of Competency based Training and Assessmen for skills is not based on how you compare to others but on the capacity to perform the tasks asked. If you can perform the simpler tasks cometently you are assessed aas being competant at that level. This concept is similar to that used in Technical training in Australia and Europe of which I have had personal experience.l I do not know how much it is applied in the US.

Te level is not a grade. It is that you can perform competantly to that level.

Thanks Harry - I wish you'd tell the Thai Ministry of Education that. In Thailand, all the English tests that Thai students in state schools, colleges and univeristies do are 'norm-referenced' - which means the student gets a grade based on their percentile ranking and not according to whether they meet specific criteria set by native English speaking teachers. The result is that you have Thai students in universities getting As in English even though they can hardly hold down a 2-minute conversation (their A represents the fact that their English, no matter how bad, was better than all their classmates).

Not only is this a ridiculous way to assess someone's proficiency, it is also highly demotivating for the students. No matter how good the teacher, students recognise their relative abilities early on and few feel that they can get an A if it mean surpassing the top 10% of 'good' students. In the criteria-based system, everyone has an equal chance to get an A in principle, even if not in practice.

I'm not sure about the government Thai test. We sort of had this conversation on TV not long ago, where I think it was established that the test was a bit of both - there were basic competency levels but your were also ranked against each other (unfortunately, I didn't really understand how both ranking systems can be used together at the same time, so I'm not the one to explain how that works!).

[sorry if I've gone off topic - this is one of those educational issues that drives me nuts!]

1. English: That's why there are standardized TOEFL and TESL tests for English, and the European Framework for other European languages. I would like to know of universities that ignore these international standards.

2. Thai: I got 74%. That gave me a pass rather than a fail. This was several years ago at the Ministry of Education, I don't know whether they have changed the system to be grades, I wouldn't know what for. Again, standardized.

Are you actually a teacher and know what you are talking about? - Just asking.

[SoftWater]

1. English: That's why there are standardized TOEFL and TESL tests for English, and the European Framework for other European languages. I would like to know of universities that ignore these international standards.

2. Thai: I got 74%. That gave me a pass rather than a fail. This was several years ago at the Ministry of Education, I don't know whether they have changed the system to be grades, I wouldn't know what for. Again, standardized.

Are you actually a teacher and know what you are talking about? - Just asking.

Let's not get personal, Tom. If you are a teacher in Bangkok and you DON'T know what I'm talking about you no doubt work in the private language sector; at any rate, you have never worked in the state education system. Your disbelief is not a surprise - it's incredible to people outside of it that the state education system works like this, which is exactly the point of my post above. However, there is a historical reason for this, which is that the system was brought in to ameliorate the tendency of thai teachers to be over-generous to their own students in grading formative work. For once, the MoE recognised that the Thai cultural tendency to 'favour' those that are in one's care over others that are not was counter-productive to good educational standards. Unfortunately, they picked the worst solution to the problem.

You would like to know of univeristies that have this practice? All the state universities (that includes Kasetsaat, Thammasat and Chula to name just the most famous ones), all state schools and, indeed, NIETS which runs the university entrance examinations use the norm-referencing sysem. Yes, some faculties do accept TOEFL and IELTS scores for entrance in some degree programs (particularly the international ones like BBA degress), but they use their own norm-referencing system for their own internal English courses within those programs.

Do I know what I'm talking about? According to my wife, not often... but in this case, I've worked in the Thai state education system for six years, and have had many arguments with administrators about this issue. We did run some international courses according to internationally acceptable criteria until recently in my institution, alas early this year the administration decided that a norm-referenced system would be 'better' (and since then they have had to conceal that fact, at least once to my certain knowledge, in order to get that particular course internationally accredited, but that's another, long and ongoing story)...

In short, I share your incredulity.

Edited September 20, 2009 by SoftWater