Survey: Thailand Heading In The Wrong Direction

[webfact]

Survey: Thailand heading in the wrong direction

By Saksith Saiyasombut

Asia News Network/The Nation

In a latest survey by the Asia Foundation, most Thais believe the nation is heading in the wrong direction.

The survey, conducted on 1,500 Thais in 26 provinces, said that 58 per cent believe the nation is going in the wrong direction, with 64 per cent of them blaming the bad economic situation.

According to 60 per cent of respondents, the economic crisis is Thailand's biggest problem, followed by the ongoing political conflicts (24 per cent). Some 67 per cent of the respondents feel their own economic situation has deteriorated in the past two years.

Despite this, 53 per cent are satisfied with the current government and see democracy as the best form of government (95 per cent), even though 68 per cent agree it makes decisions difficult, because there is always conflict.

However - even if 70 per cent are satisfied with democracy in Thailand and twothirds see the nation as a democratic one, 80 per cent of Thais are still not convinced they have influence over national government decisions, with the majority feeling alienated by their politicians.

The survey also found a large portion of respondents are politically tolerant (79 per cent), meaning they would accept all political parties to hold meetings in their areas. This is the highest percentage compared to other countries in the region where the foundation has conducted similar surveys in the last decade.

The foundation's country representative, Dr. James Klein said the survey showed Thais have a "very deep and sophisticated understanding of democracy."

Currently, Parliament is discussing amendments to the 2007 constitution.

The survey found that a large majority of Thais (84 per cent) want these changes to be ratified by a referendum, while twothirds want public participation in shaping the amendments.

The controversial Article 237 - where political parties can be dissolved if any senior executives are convicted of electoral fraud - should not be subject to change, according to 62 per cent of participants. However 69 per cent think convicted politicians should not be pardoned, and more than half want the pardon for the coupmakers of 2006 revoked.

"The results show Thais are tired of the impunity of powerful elites," said Tim Meisburger of the Asia Foundation, who directed the nationwide survey.

The survey also asked Thai citizens about their trust in various institutions, resulting in high percentages for the courts (64 per cent) and the Army (44 per cent). The police are seen as the least trusted institution, with 39 per cent ranking their integrity as low or very low. They are also regarded as the most biased (84 per cent), equal to the media (84 per cent) and the electoral commission (67 per cent).

The results should provide lawmakers, politicians and other influential persons with a comprehensive picture of the Thai electorate, the foundation said while presenting the survey in Bangkok on Wednesday.

-- The Nation 2009/09/17

[bkkjames]

I would like to see the survey - over to you Mr. Klein.

[geovalin]

Of course, each of us will emphasis some figures and will forget the other ones.

At this little game let me paste this:

"more than half want the pardon for the coupmakers of 2006 revoked." this is very brave to dare to tell this [coupmakers are the most POWERFUL persons in the country] when it's so easy to condemn politicians and police [these one are weak].

[FatherF]

Is it time for a "Clampdown on survey's"?

FF

Edited September 17, 2009 by FatherF

[007]

Is it time for a "Clampdown on survey's"?

FF

Or, to use the other catch phrase: Thailand, the Hub for Surveys?

[losworld]

Is it time for a "Clampdown on survey's"?

FF

Or, to use the other catch phrase: Thailand, the Hub for Surveys?

Somewhat reassuring numbers.

Edited September 17, 2009 by losworld

[johnnort]

Surveys in Thailand???? The huge divides between the Thai classes make surveys less than useless. What cross section of people do they talk to??

[Thai at Heart]

Surveys in Thailand???? The huge divides between the Thai classes make surveys less than useless. What cross section of people do they talk to??

The methodology of the survey is in the report.

Quite extensive weighting by province etc. But yes, even within given provinces the diversity of population is very large, but still it is a survey with an attempt at scientific polling and apparently requisite randomness and diversity.

Some very interesting results and perceptions can be drawn from it, one of which having read it is that largely, coups are not wanted.

[jasreeve17]

According to 60 per cent of respondents, the economic crisis is Thailand's biggest problem, followed by the ongoing political conflicts (24 per cent).

Mmm, tough to believe, but if it's indeed true then it could mean: the economic crisis is hitting here very hard, Thais aren't as worried by the political divide as we are on TV, Thais don't feel engaged by the political process, anything else.

Surveys are surveys are surveys... meaningless more often than not.

[Plus]

Jasreeve, I also think Thais don't give a hoot about the "divide" or "reconciliation", I bet even those 24% are worried about the impact of actual rallies rather than the alleged reasons behind them.

There's another number in that survey - some 90+% of Thais think there's more to unite than divide them, and, as Nation's report shows, they are quite tolerant of other groups.

http://asiafoundation.org/resources/pdfs/T...portenglish.pdf

[jasreeve17]

Jasreeve, I also think Thais don't give a hoot about the "divide" or "reconciliation", I bet even those 24% are worried about the impact of actual rallies rather than the alleged reasons behind them.

There's another number in that survey - some 90+% of Thais think there's more to unite than divide them, and, as Nation's report shows, they are quite tolerant of other groups.

http://asiafoundation.org/resources/pdfs/T...portenglish.pdf

It's hard to know for sure.

On one hand, every Thai I meet seems pretty passionate about the political divide, all over the country. On the other hand, Thai politicians (the vast majority, if not all) and power-mongers are absolute scum who are happy to enlarge any problem if it suits their personal ambitions.

On the 90% number; that's positive isn't it - they believe in reconcilliation then (?). Why oh why oh why don't these power mongers heed the will of the people - oh yeah because they're money crazed scumbags who have no interest in the average Joe or Somchai or Pornthip... Of course the 90% number is great for these power-mongers to play the nationalism card too...

At the most basic level, the country needs to get out of the cycle of coups and take the power away from the gernerals - if Abhisit can lead down that path then great.

[Plus]

Ok, what I'm actually saying is that they need to get rid of Thaksin, then the fighting will subside and people will be left wondering what all the fuss was all about. Then they might realize that they've been pitched against each other by politicians.

Next big war will be people vs politicians, though it might not reach the same dramatic proportions as people vs Thaksin.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Jasreeve, I also think Thais don't give a hoot about the "divide" or "reconciliation", I bet even those 24% are worried about the impact of actual rallies rather than the alleged reasons behind them.

There's another number in that survey - some 90+% of Thais think there's more to unite than divide them, and, as Nation's report shows, they are quite tolerant of other groups.

http://asiafoundation.org/resources/pdfs/T...portenglish.pdf

It's hard to know for sure.

On one hand, every Thai I meet seems pretty passionate about the political divide, all over the country. On the other hand, Thai politicians (the vast majority, if not all) and power-mongers are absolute scum who are happy to enlarge any problem if it suits their personal ambitions.

On the 90% number; that's positive isn't it - they believe in reconcilliation then (?). Why oh why oh why don't these power mongers heed the will of the people - oh yeah because they're money crazed scumbags who have no interest in the average Joe or Somchai or Pornthip... Of course the 90% number is great for these power-mongers to play the nationalism card too...

At the most basic level, the country needs to get out of the cycle of coups and take the power away from the gernerals

Amen.

- if Abhisit can lead down that path then great.

Pass that pipe would you?

[jasreeve17]

Ok, what I'm actually saying is that they need to get rid of Thaksin, then the fighting will subside and people will be left wondering what all the fuss was all about. Then they might realize that they've been pitched against each other by politicians.

Next big war will be people vs politicians, though it might not reach the same dramatic proportions as people vs Thaksin.

See that there is our major disagreement, Plus.

I see the army as the problem, you get rid of MrT and it's back to business as normal. If Abhisit tries to out the army - he'll be out. Then the truly awful Newin will weadle his way in and let the army get what the want as long as he gets to steal to the nth degree. Then MrT's level of corruption will look like a light skimming.

The army, the same players over decades, their never ending coups and insane sense of national morality is Thailand's illness, for me. Look how rich these generals are for goodness sake...

I will say that if Abhisit gets the army out of politics then that's a job well done, and the process might, MIGHT, have proved worthwhile. But, I don't believe that a coup installed government has the intention or the power to kick the army back to the barracks.

[jasreeve17]

Pass that pipe would you?

Yeah, I know. But, maybe these old barsturds are vulnerable to his smile. It's just a hope...

On a more serious note, I find it very difficult to trust an old-school-tie Englishman (Etonite) to stop the elites from abusing the 'lower classes'. That's not the way they're bred...

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Pass that pipe would you?

Yeah, I know. But, maybe these old barsturds are vulnerable to his smile. It's just a hope...

On a more serious note, I find it very difficult to trust an old-school-tie Englishman (Etonite) to stop the elites from abusing the 'lower classes'. That's not the way they're bred...

How true. He learned how to be scornful of the plebs very early. Our values are in us and pretty much immutable by puberty. So how likely is he to consider the plebs now?

[johnnort]

And how much of the posted reasoning, do the Up-country Thais know anything about to give a just answer to survey questions?????

[Garry9999]

The wrong direction or just going around in circles?

[jasreeve17]

And how much of the posted reasoning, do the Up-country Thais know anything about to give a just answer to survey questions?????

I don't mean, or want, to be argumentative.

In my experience the upcountry folk are pretty smart with regard to politics. My missus's father, living in his little 9 rai rice farm, told me all about Thai politics 7 or 8 years ago, and I thought he was stupid with limited understanding. Over the last couple of years, I've realised he was spot on and I was the stupid one...

[miatai]

Jasreeve, I also think Thais don't give a hoot about the "divide" or "reconciliation", I bet even those 24% are worried about the impact of actual rallies rather than the alleged reasons behind them.

There's another number in that survey - some 90+% of Thais think there's more to unite than divide them, and, as Nation's report shows, they are quite tolerant of other groups.

http://asiafoundation.org/resources/pdfs/T...portenglish.pdf

It's hard to know for sure.

...the following below is the best analysis so far in this panel on the af survey

....

On one hand, every Thai I meet seems pretty passionate about the political divide, all over the country. On the other hand, Thai politicians (the vast majority, if not all) and power-mongers are absolute scum who are happy to enlarge any problem if it suits their personal ambitions.

On the 90% number; that's positive isn't it - they believe in reconcilliation then (?). Why oh why oh why don't these power mongers heed the will of the people - oh yeah because they're money crazed scumbags who have no interest in the average Joe or Somchai or Pornthip... Of course the 90% number is great for these power-mongers to play the nationalism card too...

At the most basic level, the country needs to get out of the cycle of coups and take the power away from the gernerals - if Abhisit can lead down that path then great.

[webfact]

I'm not going to remove this post, as the intent is quite clear.

Please read this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Point-Point-...es-t287357.html and the forum rules:

29. To not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

Thanks for your cooperation

[KevinBloodyWilson]

And how much of the posted reasoning, do the Up-country Thais know anything about to give a just answer to survey questions?????

I don't mean, or want, to be argumentative.

In my experience the upcountry folk are pretty smart with regard to politics. My missus's father, living in his little 9 rai rice farm, told me all about Thai politics 7 or 8 years ago, and I thought he was stupid with limited understanding. Over the last couple of years, I've realised he was spot on and I was the stupid one...

I've had a similar experience with a family in Isaan. They loved Thaksin whereas I tried to explain to them he was a thief. They already knew that, but he was the first thief in government to increase their disposable income and standard of living. In contrast, the value of cow and a bag of rice has lowered drastically since he was ousted, while the fat cats continue to get rich and the rich/poor divide gets bigger.

Actually I thought I knew it all and I was wrong, these people are much better informed and much more angry about what has happened in the past few years than I thought. Humbling experience but one I will remember.

[Thai at Heart]

Pass that pipe would you?

Yeah, I know. But, maybe these old barsturds are vulnerable to his smile. It's just a hope...

On a more serious note, I find it very difficult to trust an old-school-tie Englishman (Etonite) to stop the elites from abusing the 'lower classes'. That's not the way they're bred...

To recount one of the most used political cliches of all time, all he has to do is be a "man for the people". That in itself was Thaksin's greatest weakness. A percentage believed that he was absolutely not for them.

To do this he must weaken once and for all the influence in politics of the army, then the gentry, but, who knows, 5 years from now, maybe he can pull it off.

First things first, let him get thru this weekend.

[Plus]

See that there is our major disagreement, Plus.

I see the army as the problem..

Do you? Why? What problems are they causing that really matter to Thais as a whole?

Rhetorics aside, the reds are backing the army's choice over Abhisit in the current police chief spat, and, politically, Chaisit Shinawatra who controls PTP, last week supported another coup.

According to survey, the army is the secong most trusted institution, too.

So, where do you see any evidence of a real anti-army movement? Not the "we are against coups, but if the next one goes our way, then it's ok", or "we are against generals meddling in politics, but if they bully Abhisit, that's ok, too".

It's a non-issue.

[jayboy]

See that there is our major disagreement, Plus.

I see the army as the problem..

Do you? Why? What problems are they causing that really matter to Thais as a whole?

Rhetorics aside, the reds are backing the army's choice over Abhisit in the current police chief spat, and, politically, Chaisit Shinawatra who controls PTP, last week supported another coup.

According to survey, the army is the secong most trusted institution, too.

So, where do you see any evidence of a real anti-army movement? Not the "we are against coups, but if the next one goes our way, then it's ok", or "we are against generals meddling in politics, but if they bully Abhisit, that's ok, too".

It's a non-issue.

I don't think there's an anti army movement.There's an Economist article today which says the army is treated with respect and suspicion, which I think is about right.Many of us have relatives in the army, in my case a young officer serving in the South.His dedication and cheerfulness in face of real danger is very humbling, and there are thousands like him.I would never dream of disrespecting the ordinary fighting soldier.Having said that there's a problem in the senior officer class -- often corrupt, interfering in politics, ludicrously over-generalled (if that's a proper word).

[Plus]

There's a problem, but it's far from being as important as Jasreeve implied.

Certainly not on the scale of Thaksin.

[marsteele]

Is it time for a "Clampdown on survey's"?

FF

oh no please not another clampdown. Already have clampdowns on clampdowns

[jasreeve17]

There's a problem, but it's far from being as important as Jasreeve implied.

Certainly not on the scale of Thaksin.

Plus, I can't understand that, at all.

How many coups here? Democracy needs to make its own mistakes and edge forward; every time there's a coup that process resets to the start and we never progress; that's problem one, & it's a massive problem.

Problem two is the huge illegal wealth, gained through corruption (allegedly...), of the army generals. Today's BkkPost was saying how they'll go after MrsT for the land she stole (allegedly...) even though the legal time limit has elapsed. Okay, I'm happy with that, deal with corruption and abuse of power, but how about the army installed PM, General, Sonthi? Same situation; he stole land (allegedly...) by corruption and abuse of power, ohhh but the time limit has expired so we can't act...

So, the generals stop democracy from coming, abuse their power, steal money etc - at an institutionalised level, and are untouchable; breaking laws left, right and centre - no single mp could ever be so damaging to society.

Never mind the fact that the army should NEVER stick their noses into politics - it's illegal, yet they've done it here (breaking the highest laws in the land) nearly 20 times in the last few decades... They are very clearly THE outstanding problem in Thai politics - i.e. an outside group that, by law, cannot get involved in politics yet have used their tanks and machine guns to be the premier force at the very centre of Thai politics over the last 70 years... it doesn't get much clearer than that (despite the Thaksin smoke screen).

[Plus]

I'd say there were no coups against democracy here in about half a century.

There were coups against fellow military strongmen, there was a coup against Chatichai, but if democracy is a voice of people - they approved of it.

2006 coup was against Thaksin, not against democracy, the power was returned back to the people ASAP and coup-makers quietly faded away. No one has a beef with them now.

The "restart" button the coup pushed in 2006 wasn't pleasant, but no one had any better ideas anyway. Honestly, it was far less painful than prolonged PAD protests that eventually brought down PPP, but then again, that was thanks to "judiciary coup", as some say.

Whether "democracy" on its own could have survived and won against Thaksin is a big question. Even if it eventually prevailed, the cost would have been enormous, and the benefits unclear - as survey shows, democracy is valued very high regardless.

Think of it - it's been three years since the coup and Thaksin still manages to fight back. How long would it take without the coup?

I, personally, think that with Thaksin still in charge and in command, full blown civil war would have been unavoidable. The only thing holding him back now is the lack of resources - his red army doesn't have weapons, only hijacked buses and LPG tanks.

[jasreeve17]

I understand your points, but I weight things differently.

One corrupt man cannot be as bad as seventy years of neigh on total army control and corruption - these people have no place in democracy, or huge mansions or land snatches or Benzs or massive bank accounts (100 lifetimes of their salary...) or re-writting constitutions or vocal political voices (or any political voice), I could go on; you get the picture.

To say that 'the people' approved of 'the coup' is not an acceptable argument in a democracy, and of course leads onto a bigger situation of nationalism and an area we cannot discuss - which makes this whole topic semi-redundant (for now)...