Farang Decorum

[toptuan]

where is Bangkok?

It's that cosmopolitan suburb just north or Pattaya.

No significant relationship to the rest of Thailand.

[473geo]

I like to shout and swear. It keeps me sane. After 17 years here, it is my right. Take valium of you want to sit back and do nothing about the odd act of complete stupidity.

No problem for you. Shout and swear all you like in your automobile - when you have no passengers.

Subjecting your irrationality on them is extremely selfish, and makes you look like a fool. But most passengers are too kind or too intimidated to say that to your face. Your shouting and swearing increases the tenseness and discomfort in your vehicle and it is not your right to do that to anyone........... By yourself...OK, no problem.

Shouting and screaming at Thai drivers is not merely you expressing your vehemence at their driving habits, underlying it is a sense of superiority. Down deep you think you are better than they are and your shouting and swearing is an outward manifestation of it.

Shouting and swearing has nothing to do with maintaining ones sanity, and everything to do with immaturity...or as you say, someone acting with complete stupidity.

"It is my right?".....think again. It would be equally someone else's right to beat the ---- out of you when you do that. At least I would consider that my right. I just wouldn't exercise that right as your behavior will not control mine.

Sadly detracts from the sense of responsibility you are tring to promote in your first post - nobody has a 'right' to inflict violence on another.

[Garry]

Consider the following when contemplating the opposite:

1. Relax behind that steering wheel. When you start jumping up and down due to some idiot driver, be aware that there is another one a block away. To let another idiot driver affect your behavior, you are giving them control over your behavior. Calmly go around, wait or whatever. Impress your passengers with your steady character, maturity and wisdom. In fact, I appreciate the Thai drivers. The penchant of those #$%^&^&* drivers in your home country to lean on the horn at every opportunity is more annoying than anything, and I enjoy the Thai demeanor in this regard. I try to emulate them.
   
2. Next time you get annoyed because a Thai person gives you a blank stare when you are saying something extremely simple in English, aided and abetted by very clear gesticulating, dont. It is your responsibility to speak Thai, not their responsibility to speak or understand your English. Can you imagine a Thai being upset in Germany, England, the Excited States or wherever, because someone doesn't understand their Thai language!
   
3. When you see some young buck roaring down the street on his motorcycle, remember this is a trait of testosterone-laden youth everywhere, not just in Thailand. I recall vividly my first visit to Holland, seeing these young guys roaring down narrow cobblestone streets. So accept it, relax and chalk it up to a state of being that perhaps reflect your own behavior at that age.
   

Just some ideas to give you pause next time. And I am speaking to myself more than anyone.

nice...thanks

dont know what else to say....

Inflammatory posts removed. Keep it civil please. Personally, I thought for a first post it was well done. The "relax behind the wheel" is something I certainly need to be better at.

+1 and then some Great post, makes me take a step back mentally and have a think about what really is important and what is trivial. Most things in life are not worth getting bent out of shape over.

[MrHammer]

Road rage is a form of passive agressive behaviour. Do you really need a few thousand pounds of metal to feel safe?

Thais are much better drivers in my opinion than the average 'wanna-be-shcumacher-myself-first-road-rage' moron in the West.

Thais may lack skill but they make up for it by giving way and remaining calm. And I'm not joking. If we had the amount of motorbikes in the West that we have here, the streets of London, Paris, New York would be lined with dead bodies.

[Lopburi99]

Thais are much better drivers in my opinion than the average 'wanna-be-shcumacher-myself-first-road-rage' moron in the West.

Thais may lack skill but they make up for it by giving way and remaining calm. And I'm not joking. If we had the amount of motorbikes in the West that we have here, the streets of London, Paris, New York would be lined with dead bodies.

I agree Hammer. I've read many posts about Thais being poor auto drivers but I don't see it. The motorcyclists, that's a different story. The motorcyclists here are much too careless, hence so many accidents, injuries and deaths.

[MrHammer]

Thais are much better drivers in my opinion than the average 'wanna-be-shcumacher-myself-first-road-rage' moron in the West.

Thais may lack skill but they make up for it by giving way and remaining calm. And I'm not joking. If we had the amount of motorbikes in the West that we have here, the streets of London, Paris, New York would be lined with dead bodies.

I agree Hammer. I've read many posts about Thais being poor auto drivers but I don't see it. The motorcyclists, that's a different story. The motorcyclists here are much too careless, hence so many accidents, injuries and deaths.

The motorcyclists are crazy, I'll give you that.

[mca]

I genuinely can't believe what I'm reading here. What sort of alternative Thailand are some folks here living in? A large number of Thai car drivers are completely unaware of anything going on around them, frequently fail to give way when they're supposed to, have no lane discipline, no respect for the rules of the road, fail to judge situations ahead of them on the road, consider a traffic light that has just changed to "red" to be "green", don't give way to ambulances or fire engines . The list is endless.

Driving calmly and driving competently are 2 completely different things.

Defend Thais all you like against the "western superiority" advocates in the majority of matters if you choose. I'll fully back you up. But anybody who considers the majority of Thai drivers to be fully competent in operating a car skillfully and with courtesy is simply talking nonsense.

Come to my neck of the woods. I'll show you at least an accident a day down to someone in a car doing something stupid. At least once a week I'll show you some real carnage. Back home I saw only 2 accidents involving fatalities during my driving time. Here I've lost count and I drove a hel_l of a lot more back home than I do here.

And at the risk of sounding arrogant back home I held both an IAM car and motorcycle license and an HGV 1 license with Hazpack so I can speak with some experience as to what a competent driver is.

Edited September 19, 2009 by mca

[bonobo]

One of the most amazing things I have seen on the road was while waiting at a red light on Sathorn.  A Mercedes blew past me almost up on the curb, ran the light, and almost hit a Thai cop who was crossing the intersection on a motorcycle with the green light. The cop almost put the bike down, managed to right it, pointed it back in his original direction of travel, then continued on his way.

What was amazing to me was not that the driver ran the red light.  I see this each and every day.  But I was amazed that the cop did nothing. If this had happened in the US, that driver would have had the entire police force with helos and SWAT included chasing him down!

[mca]

^ Yeah I saw a police officer at a traffic light booth wave down a pick up to pull over to the kerb. As he got near the vehicle it sped off nearly clipping him. He just walked back to his booth and continued reading the newspaper.

I reckon setting one of those reality TV shows where they have a dashcam in a police cruiser in Thailand would be a serious loss maker for the production crew. They'd pull the guy over, he'd roar off and instead of a lengthy chase ending in a decab and foot pursuit the Thai cops would just sit there as the perp blasted off, pull out some moo ping and sticky rice and start munching away.

Edited September 19, 2009 by mca

[yabaaaa]

One of the most amazing things I have seen on the road was while waiting at a red light on Sathorn.  A Mercedes blew past me almost up on the curb, ran the light, and almost hit a Thai cop who was crossing the intersection on a motorcycle with the green light. The cop almost put the bike down, managed to right it, pointed it back in his original direction of travel, then continued on his way.

What was amazing to me was not that the driver ran the red light.  I see this each and every day.  But I was amazed that the cop did nothing. If this had happened in the US, that driver would have had the entire police force with helos and SWAT included chasing him down!

"Mercedes" answers your question why he wasnt prosecuted etc

[tuky]

Inflammatory posts removed. Keep it civil please. Personally, I thought for a first post it was well done. The "relax behind the wheel" is something I certainly need to be better at.

IMO the OP is inflammatory.

or in the very least...condescending.

Edited September 19, 2009 by tuky

[glegolo]

Consider the following when contemplating the opposite:

1. Relax behind that steering wheel. When you start jumping up and down due to some idiot driver, be aware that there is another one a block away. To let another idiot driver affect your behavior, you are giving them control over your behavior. Calmly go around, wait or whatever. Impress your passengers with your steady character, maturity and wisdom. In fact, I appreciate the Thai drivers. The penchant of those #$%^&^&* drivers in your home country to lean on the horn at every opportunity is more annoying than anything, and I enjoy the Thai demeanor in this regard. I try to emulate them.
   
2. Next time you get annoyed because a Thai person gives you a blank stare when you are saying something extremely simple in English, aided and abetted by very clear gesticulating, dont. It is your responsibility to speak Thai, not their responsibility to speak or understand your English. Can you imagine a Thai being upset in Germany, England, the Excited States or wherever, because someone doesn't understand their Thai language!
   
3. When you see some young buck roaring down the street on his motorcycle, remember this is a trait of testosterone-laden youth everywhere, not just in Thailand. I recall vividly my first visit to Holland, seeing these young guys roaring down narrow cobblestone streets. So accept it, relax and chalk it up to a state of being that perhaps reflect your own behavior at that age.Just some ideas to give you pause next time. And I am speaking to myself more than anyone.

---------------------------------

Wish to thank yu for a good post. me myself surely needs to be calmed down sometimes, not because I think there is something we falang can do about the thai-driving. Because thai-people overall is THE worst drivers I have ever seen in my life. and have been to some 20 country or something.

But I understand that they do not know trafficrules, trafficsigns or can read situation in the traffic. Why should they. The laws and their own govermant is handing out drivinglicenses like candybar to the people. It starts with the young , as it´s best they come to get their motorbike-license, what a joke,,,,

driving through 5 kones with 5 meters distance in between them, slowly of course.. than up on a bar, very wide for a length of about 10 meter , a left easy turn and than remember to STOP, with their foots down at the ground. Than start again, take a right turn and than stop, with their foots down at the ground and than 10 meter to goalline and the waiting driving license.. and all this within a secured area with no traffic. 7 of 10 thai manage to accomplish this successfully.

I have not sofar seen the tests that is required in order to get a car-drivinglicense, but I heard from falangfriend many stories like they are being asked, "what colour is this"?? or "and left is??" And than they are through!! But maybe it is harder for the thais to get their license??

Anyhow when I see these guys coming out in the traffic both motorbikes and carguys, IT IS SCARY. there are absolutely no COMMON RULES that they apply. tuffest and strongest nerves wins all the time. - Park exactly everywhere, do not care a bit about the traffic that shall pass. Double-parking-no problem!! Try to drive throught a roundabout... hm.... who shall drive first????????????????????? the tuffest guy winns all the time....

But as you say, I must stay calm..... and I am soon getting there!! hahaha!!!

Glegolo

Edited September 20, 2009 by glegolo

[Lopburi99]

I genuinely can't believe what I'm reading here. What sort of alternative Thailand are some folks here living in? A large number of Thai car drivers are completely unaware of anything going on around them, frequently fail to give way when they're supposed to, have no lane discipline, no respect for the rules of the road, fail to judge situations ahead of them on the road, consider a traffic light that has just changed to "red" to be "green", don't give way to ambulances or fire engines . The list is endless.

Driving calmly and driving competently are 2 completely different things.

Defend Thais all you like against the "western superiority" advocates in the majority of matters if you choose. I'll fully back you up. But anybody who considers the majority of Thai drivers to be fully competent in operating a car skillfully and with courtesy is simply talking nonsense.

Come to my neck of the woods. I'll show you at least an accident a day down to someone in a car doing something stupid. At least once a week I'll show you some real carnage. Back home I saw only 2 accidents involving fatalities during my driving time. Here I've lost count and I drove a hel_l of a lot more back home than I do here.

And at the risk of sounding arrogant back home I held both an IAM car and motorcycle license and an HGV 1 license with Hazpack so I can speak with some experience as to what a competent driver is.

I have no reason to disbelieve others, but I haven't seen much bad driving. I guess I haven't lived here long enough or maybe driving in the villages is different. My good friend neverdie also claimed the Thais were horrible drivers and he'd lived in Thailand for many years. I certainly agree being courteous doesn't mean somebody is a good driver. A good driver is somebody who practices accident prevention methods.

[mca]

I live upcountry and when I visit Bangkok or Chiang Mai I'm pleasantly surprised that there is some semblance of competency among drivers in those places. "Semblance" being the operative word here.

[Newguy70]

The key is to adapt, as a few posted prior.

I am sure that my bike skills that I have adapted here would not be welcomed back in the states, although I do not drive on the sidewalk!. As for the horn, I rarely see anyone leaning on it BKK/Thailand ( unlike NJ, Philadelphia, and New York) where it is used in sync with the Gas Pedal/ No Blinker/ High Beams; And when I am upcountry Chiang Rai I only here the horn when making others aware when you are driving around a corner for oncoming traffic.

[dumball]

The best line in the thread so far "A good driver is one who practices accident prevention methods" , You could count on one hand those with that kind of skill because of lack of any formal training , for motos? Haha , one finger would be sufficient for profficiency , even my foreign friends I have riiden behind are practically clueless on driving methods to stay out of trouble .

[kurnell]

I like to shout and swear. It keeps me sane. After 17 years here, it is my right. Take valium of you want to sit back and do nothing about the odd act of complete stupidity.

No problem for you. Shout and swear all you like in your automobile - when you have no passengers.

Subjecting your irrationality on them is extremely selfish, and makes you look like a fool. But most passengers are too kind or too intimidated to say that to your face. Your shouting and swearing increases the tenseness and discomfort in your vehicle and it is not your right to do that to anyone........... By yourself...OK, no problem.

Shouting and screaming at Thai drivers is not merely you expressing your vehemence at their driving habits, underlying it is a sense of superiority. Down deep you think you are better than they are and your shouting and swearing is an outward manifestation of it.

Shouting and swearing has nothing to do with maintaining ones sanity, and everything to do with immaturity...or as you say, someone acting with complete stupidity.

"It is my right?".....think again. It would be equally someone else's right to beat the ---- out of you when you do that. At least I would consider that my right. I just wouldn't exercise that right as your behavior will not control mine.

One should always state "in my opinion after such a statement". Besides, I've been here longer than you so I am most likely right.

[fiercesnake]

True. However I have been riding a motorbike daily in Bangkok's heaviest traffic, dealing with one idiot after another. Though I avoid getting flustered there are times which severely tests this moderate approach. As a biker I get regularly hassled by rich BMW's and Mercedes drivers blasting their horn behind me while they are on a phone driving over two lanes acting as if they are the bike! Or the idiot taxi driver in the third lane that sees a fare from someone stupidly hailing him down in the most absurd position and him flying across in front of everyone to park the taxi with the bum of the vehicle out right in front of others. The dangerous driving which shows a complete lack of spatial intelligence and awareness surpasses belief at times. If anything should be suggested here it is the increased awareness by drivers, especially in central Bangkok, on basic safety in driving. Yes the be courteous idea is correct but I think more emphasis on increased driver education in general is of far greater importance to discuss.

Having seen accident upon accident here and even some gross scenes of extreme carnage; the worst I saw was a young girl as a passenger on a bike dragged under a bus due to sheer stupidity by two bikes jostling to squeeze in between a car and bus at the same time. Now that's a memory I'll NEVER forget! Maybe someone getting upset with another driver may make that driver consider the consequences of their actions next time if the action is just sheer stupidity. Though I avoid getting upset in most cases as suggested above there is cause sometimes for why drivers may show frustration or anger in some situations. Sorry, seen too many people hurt on a regular basis here and I've nearly been a fatality many times myself, just lucky I try to be cautious as a biker. I can't believe just how ridiculous some bikes are that I drive alongside of; or worst of all are those green buses! Every Bangkokian biker KNOWS what I mean here!

[islandguy]

A lot of good points have been made here. Many parallel the changes in my own thinking and behavior driving in Thailand. Two related comments I'd like to make; I now mostly use my horn only to make others on the road aware of my position and changed to flashing my lights (in the daytime) to express my feelings and to try to get them to change their behaviour (knowing it is usually a lost cause anyway). While I haven't been able to stop saying things about the other drivers to vent, since I don't have mirrored windows I try to remember that in Thailand, perhaps more than where I come from, expressing strong negative emotions directly at others may lead to them trying to kill you....and if you are on a bike, that can be very easy for them to do