Are Posters Truely Representative Of All Expats?

[expatdiane]

Hello,

I have perused Phuket forum over the past few weeks,and to tell the truth have been reticent to post here, it seems a very intimidating male dominated domain ,[hello, where are you ladies?] lol..but here goes..I want to tell a bit about myself first, so that hopefully you can see that i am talking from lifetime experience,and am not 'trolling,not intent on flamhumerous retorts that come back to some posters, hey i even check my spelling etc,because that also seems to get an often nasty retort, i don't want that, and yes i am a newbie,even that seems to draw an 'obviously inexperienced' criticism at times.

I am a 30 year expat, having left my home country with hubby for a life career in security work, and we have lived in Cambodia,Iraq,New Guinea,Egypt,Spain,Zimbabwe and a few other places, many nice,a lot ,not, so i guess i can call myself an experienced expat.

Almost without exception all we expats have a great time together,even though ,in many places we are thought of as ,and often called dogs,pigs, white trash,and are often verbally and physically threatened ,and as for two tier pricing, and corruption and scams..much the same as Phuket, but on a far greater scale. Our annual 'sanity saving' trips to other countries including many to Thailand, often Phuket for R&R are considered vital and give a needed reality check, [these are a very, very neccessary part of life when living in countries, as we do, that are not even near to what we would call normal in any sense of the word.] Believe me,all the bad stuff that Phuket TV posters complain so stongly about is no different to any of its bordering countries,in some cases a lot less so,and if you care to go to Egypt,or most South African states,well they make S E Asia look really good to say the least.

As expats,wherever we are at the time we really try and blend in and assimilate with the locals,first by a smile and hello,and gradually ,by frequenting local markets and meeting places ,you become accepted ,most times successfully, but sometimes they simply tolerate our presence,but by remembering the fact that we are expats, ie visitors and acting accordingly ;when in Rome, do as the Romans do, things definately do gell a lot better.Why swim against the current? To sit back and critisize and/or badmouth the locals is a recipe for failure for sure.

Unfortunately,[and i was once guilty of this..once only mind]some people seem to want to change what they see as wrong in their adopted country], and choose not to tolerate the natural cultural differences and also the not natural ones ,eg blatant corruption and ripoffs ... some,especially the longer term expats tend to think it is even their right to make things 'better'.It is not possible,you only will end up in with a headache, you may as well just talk to the wall,for all it's going to achieve unfortunately. Honestly... live and let live is the best policy.This applies to all expats, anywhere in this world as people only end up getting bitter and twisted trying to change such deep seated problems..as for the poor ol' tourists, this stuff happens everywhere in the world, and you soon learn from your experiences [hopefully!]

I am sorry it has taken a while to get to here, to some points i would like to make and some questions i would like to ask but i wanted to get it right ,from the start.

I can understand all the concern you fellow expats are trying to express re "trouble in Thailand' docu and other issues eg..policing or rather lack of, bureaucracy issues, etc and i applaud you, albeit single handedly, for puting it on forum for discussion,after all thats one way of drawing attention to the said issues, but in all honesty, you may as well put it in The Womans Weekly,for all the good it is doing, in fact, to an outsider looking in,your well intentioned ?, posts are having a negative effect.Why are you not drawing attention to all the good that there is on offer in a tropical land instead?Good is everywhere.

I see that some of you are established in businesses and need the tourist and expat support so why do the huge majority of posters continually post all and sundry negative only views of Phuket and continally point out your perceived faults in your adopted home? Don't you think that the facts as presented by media etc are already damaging enough, with out the expats nonstop bad mouthing adding to it?

As my heading says"are posters on phuket forum truely representitive of all expats?"

We ask this Question because we hope to finally retire next year and Phuket is on our shortlist,but if the posters indeed are truely representative,you present a very sad, unhappy,biased group of people ,which is quite unjust considering all the positives you do have here. Like i say, as an outsider looking in,the impression i get is that this is not the sort of community that many people would wish to live within and be part of, but hopefully some positive feedback will be posted soon. I am only pointing out exactly what is posted by you and read by people looking for answers. For eg;it appears that there would be a small group who have very strong opinions on near everything and if anyone dares to post their own opinion,they are swamped by the said group in angry and swift response. Forum is meant to be all about discussion, not intimidation.

One chaps standard response is always..'you must be a Thai,' and then vents his spleen on the shortcomings of everything Thai.If you spoke about the locals the way he does, in many countries you would get the 'pre-dawn door knock' guaranteed.

Others simply go out of their way to belittle and ridicule the poster,and indeed intimidate them, and still others go off on a tangent purely to instigate angst.Look how many posts are stopped by the mod because they have got out of hand.

I think that in all the posts that i read ,there was maybe one or two that were in a positive vein, along the lines of enjoy the good,smell the roses,dont be negative, this place is so much better than country of origin,etc,etc. Great advise i think.

Yet another long timer..along the lines of; 'i will not be told i cannot change the rotton things in Thailand ' as i am this, that and the other,and argued that he was not a'visiter', that this is home and he/they have a right. Someone also pointed out that alien is the Thai wording and this also created a vicious backlash.why? WE are aliens.. Alien = An unnaturalized foreign resident of a country. Also called noncitizen.

We call ourselves expats..Dictionary=

An expatriate (in abbreviated form, expat ) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country and culture other than that of the person's upbringing or legal residence. Much the same, so another anamosity over,what? Different words,same meaning, and if so you are a noncitizen, then,your options to change anything at all that you don't like are virtually zilch.Accept this and accept the whole Thai lifestyle, not just the good bits that may suit you.I bet you will then find a nicer frame of mind and can relax.Anger is not a good companion.

[TaoNow]

Welcome EPD: Quick answer is "no", the ranting members of TV are not typical of ex-pats in Thailand. Also, I would advise making shorter posts in the future, and you'll probably get a better response. My view is that Phuket is paradise, but it takes time to get to know the people who are not just after a quick baht.

Best of luck!

TN

[rawaireddragon]

All you points are well argued and thought through.....I agree that there is alot of negative posting and back bitting here.

But the point is your defination of an expat does not exempt people from holding a stake in the culture or country.

Many of us who post here are business people as you rightly say...we have a stake in everything that goes on ...good or bad....many of us have children of mixed culture here....we have chosen to bring them up here in preference to the liberal and PC west. That gives us the right morally to raise issue when we feel the need. Thai visa is read by the authorities here.....they do care....The real stakeholders here ..the landed, the eductated and the real ligitmate business Thais are as concerned as us expats.

You say you have lived in more corrupt socities than here.......the reason we raise issue is because we refuse to allow our home (alien or not) to become the same. The cynical will now attack me and remind me of the futility of my words, but remember the old saying for evil to truimph good men must say and do nothing.

Phuket is still one of the best places to live, work and raise a family ....it is not perfect..but if we do not speak and do not act it can never be.

[LivinLOS]

Unfortunately,[and i was once guilty of this..once only mind]some people seem to want to change what they see as wrong in their adopted country], and choose not to tolerate the natural cultural differences and also the not natural ones ,eg blatant corruption and ripoffs ... some,especially the longer term expats tend to think it is even their right to make things 'better'.It is not possible,you only will end up in with a headache, you may as well just talk to the wall,for all it's going to achieve unfortunately. Honestly... live and let live is the best policy.This applies to all expats, anywhere in this world as people only end up getting bitter and twisted trying to change such deep seated problems..

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist"

No matter where I am in the world I will speak out about injustice, about crime, about people being preyed upon, about animals being used inhumanely, about children being abused, etc etc. What do you do ? Close your eyes when you see bad things and think of your happy place ??

Strong men taking action against injustice is what makes the world a safer place for the weak.

[steelepulse]

I don't think TV posters are representative of expats living here.  Just like in products or service, for every bad experience that is reported, there are 9 good ones that go undocumented. I think though that many TV posters here are much longer term expats than the average Joe, thus have seen a lot more and are sceptical about anything we read or hear about in regards to corruption, scams etc.

[liveinphuket]

I personally love it here in phuket, we don't go to the bars and enjoy mixing with the Thai people. a lot of people on this forum are always complaining about visa requirements which i think are easy for genuine people, much easyere than many other countrys and talking about shifting to other countrys, if thats how they feel thats what they should do i dont think they will be missed. i think Thailand is a great place to spend your retirement in when you mix with the real Thai people who are open and friendly, you wont find them in the bar areas, thereagain you wont find many genuine expats going to the bars on a regular baises they are more likely to go to a restaurant if they have i Thai partner, life is what you make it and i find life here very good.

[ScubaBuddha]

There anti's are a very vocal minority. People tend to post more about what they are frustrated with than what they like about Thailand, and indeed if you are used to a certain level of customer service then you are going to be let down repeatedly here. It's a (usually) small price we pay for the luxury of being able to call Thailand our home. The most complaints, and thus the biggest and most active threads, concern frustrations with corruption and extortion by the police and other Thai's, and it can be bad. But I have many Thai friends that don't share those qualities, so it's not representative of the whole.

I know of a few women on Thaivisa that do not reveal their sex on the board. There are more of them than you are ware.

And your right, alien is a perfectly acceptable word. I saw the complainers on that one and didn't agree.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist"

No matter where I am in the world I will speak out about injustice, about crime, about people being preyed upon, about animals being used inhumanely, about children being abused, etc etc. What do you do ? Close your eyes when you see bad things and think of your happy place ??

Strong men taking action against injustice is what makes the world a safer place for the weak.

Exactly right.

[Yamantaka]

Strong men taking action against injustice is what makes the world a safer place for the weak.

Strong men do not make anonymous postings using screen names insulting the culture, people and government of their host country. They get out and speak to the citizens, work with the government officials and build bridges not walls of verbal abuse.

[LivinLOS]

Strong men taking action against injustice is what makes the world a safer place for the weak.

Strong men do not make anonymous postings using screen names insulting the culture, people and government of their host country. They get out and speak to the citizens, work with the government officials and build bridges not walls of verbal abuse.

Perhaps your confusing me with one of those strong men..

The comment remains no less valid.

[johninthai]

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist"

No matter where I am in the world I will speak out about injustice, about crime, about people being preyed upon, about animals being used inhumanely, about children being abused, etc etc. What do you do ? Close your eyes when you see bad things and think of your happy place ??

Strong men taking action against injustice is what makes the world a safer place for the weak.

I figure that you are definately one of the 'group' that was pointed out!!Your reply is exactly as i for one would expect from you.

You tell us my friend..what exactly do YOU do, apart from breastbeating on this forum? Please inform, i figure a lot of us descent expats would like to hear some good from you for a change..thank you

You more often than not choose not to see the point being made and twist the post to suit your needs,maybe just to,as EPD says to "create angst"

All the lady said was that in typical asian countries, the rot is so deeply encased that you have not a chance of changing things. All you will get is a headache...I hope you have a BIG box of panadol..lol

Also a gem from you;

Strong men taking action against injustice is what makes the world a safer place for the weak.

When Queried by Yamantaka ..you posted;

Perhaps your confusing me with one of those strong men.

<deleted> are you on about here?

Anyway EPdiane's post is a refreshing, and pleasant post.See if all can keep it that way..

And definately NO ,The swill who commandere TV are definately not truely representative of all expats.

Something about "the noisy minority" !! Good luck EPdiane, we need more people like you here and i for one hope you do decide on Phuket.

[LivinLOS]

You tell us my friend..what exactly do YOU do, apart from breastbeating on this forum? Please inform, i figure a lot of us descent expats would like to hear some good from you for a change..thank you

Well the first thing is I dont let people walk all over me.. Too many expats get soo intimidated by various Thais, be they police, or just the usual street roughs, that every time someone pushes, they back down, hence those same people learn to push more. So when some Thai kills my mates 15 year old niece, and the police tried to intimidate the Thai witness, and tried to brush it all under the carpet, I made sure that they were met with stubborn refusal to go away or back down. When some uninsured helmetless unlicensed bike rider crashes into my car, I wont swallow the "but hes a poor person, you shouldnt make him pay" that the police try for.. I insist on the same level of responsibility being taken as would be applied to me, pay or go monkeyhouse.. Equal no ?? Fair no ??

Same as every time I see the animal photo guys I make a point of spoiling their business for a few minutes.. And explaining to tourists while in front of them, why they are a problem, killing gibbon parents to get gibbon baby's etc.. I am sure one day I will get bottled but it wont be the first time and those are the kind of personal stands I take. Same as stopping someone beating and chucking rocks at a street dog, he thought he wanted to fight until he looked around and saw the street was empty of backup. etc etc etc.

I am the same in the west also.. If I see someone in a real fur coat I make it my business to ruin their day.. "Nice coat, shame its on such an ugly animal" and spend a minute or two to create a consequence to their actions. If everyone acted like that you can be sure wearing fur would even less possible. Simple non violent resistance.

Ignoring problems doesnt fix them, it merely allows a bad state of affairs to get worse. By raising a problems profile, be it in real world, or online, by bringing attention to an issue you start the first step in fixing it. Exposing scams and shining the light of attention on them is often the fastest way to make them stop.

“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.” Winston Churchill

Edited September 22, 2009 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

And just to clarify..

You tell us my friend..what exactly do YOU do, apart from breastbeating on this forum? Please inform, i figure a lot of us descent expats would like to hear some good from you for a change..thank you

When Queried by Yamantaka ..you posted;

Perhaps your confusing me with one of those strong men.

<deleted> are you on about here?

In case it not VERY obvious.. I pointed out I was not necessarily one of those people who defend the weak.. But even after pointing that fact out you still dont seem to pick up on the obvious logic and immediately started on asking what it is I do ??

[doggie888888]

Strong men taking action against injustice is what makes the world a safer place for the weak.

Strong men do not make anonymous postings using screen names insulting the culture, people and government of their host country. They get out and speak to the citizens, work with the government officials and build bridges not walls of verbal abuse.

Well said Yamantaka!!! Often so called strong men are bullies and culturally insensitive.

[eurasianthai]

I am a 30 year expat, having left my home country with hubby for a life career in security work, and we have lived in Cambodia,Iraq,New Guinea,Egypt,Spain,Zimbabwe and a few other places, many nice,a lot ,not, so i guess i can call myself an experienced expat.

At 30 years old, you lived in more than 5 different countries and you consider yourself an expat?

You're not, you're a tourist...

[LivinLOS]

I am a 30 year expat, having left my home country with hubby for a life career in security work, and we have lived in Cambodia,Iraq,New Guinea,Egypt,Spain,Zimbabwe and a few other places, many nice,a lot ,not, so i guess i can call myself an experienced expat.

At 30 years old, you lived in more than 5 different countries and you consider yourself an expat?

You're not, you're a tourist...

I read it as 'been an expat for 30 years' which is an impressive amount of time to be relocating and a pretty diverse selection of places also.

[69690jay]

When I first came apon TV I was under the impression it was good place to share and share alike, maybe even meet some similar minded members, which does happen but after very short a while i was on the verge of deleating TV from my Favorites as well as my member handle . Now I enter with care.

There are good topics, posts, comments and lots of rubbish, endless dribble same same and same again.

Phuket is a great place, certainly safe with respect to the rest of the world. There is a dark/grey side as well, making it interesting at times and at times a bit worrysome, but for the most I can put up with it. Respect your neighbors help if you can and after a while it can be/feel like home for any aliens.

I can't be bothered to use spell check so pls don't crap on me for my eliterascy. My biggest barrier here is not being able to speak Thai very well.

Cheers and tight lines

Jay

[steelepulse]

When I first came apon TV I was under the impression it was good place to share and share alike, maybe even meet some similar minded members, which does happen but after very short a while i was on the verge of deleating TV from my Favorites as well as my member handle . Now I enter with care.

There are good topics, posts, comments and lots of rubbish, endless dribble same same and same again.

Phuket is a great place, certainly safe with respect to the rest of the world. There is a dark/grey side as well, making it interesting at times and at times a bit worrysome, but for the most I can put up with it. Respect your neighbors help if you can and after a while it can be/feel like home for any aliens.

I can't be bothered to use spell check so pls don't crap on me for my eliterascy. My biggest barrier here is not being able to speak Thai very well.

Cheers and tight lines

Jay

It's still a great place.  Don't let the naysayers bring you down.

[WOOHOO]

When I first came apon TV I was under the impression it was good place to share and share alike, maybe even meet some similar minded members, which does happen but after very short a while i was on the verge of deleating TV from my Favorites as well as my member handle . Now I enter with care.

There are good topics, posts, comments and lots of rubbish, endless dribble same same and same again.

Cheers and tight lines

Jay

I agree. I used to come close to never opening TV again all the time. I then learned to take it for what it is. There is a lot of information to be had from helpful people. If you have a genuine question, most of the time you will get some normal, nice people that will try to answer it for you, but if it's light hearted fun or an intelligent debate you're after then forget it, cos it aint happening here. Do TV members represent all Phuket residents? Absolutely not. If you look closely you will see the same names appear in almost every thread. These people have thousands of posts to their name and feel the need to comment and have an opinion on everything. Their average posts per day are very high. The number of TV members who post regularly is minute compared to the amount of people who are having way too much fun on Phuket to spend all their time on the computer being unnecessarily negative in a forum.

As for the original post. As far as I'm concerned, when you make the choice to live in someone else's country, you forgo the right to change the way things are and the way things are done, you simply take it or leave it the way it is. The amount of people who think they are owed something on a daily basis , like every Thai should be bending over backward to make their life better.

Has anyone even noticed that an intelligent post, asking why TV members are so negative, has in a matter of moments spiraled in to a childish slagging match, it would be ironically funny if it wasn't so sad.

To the OP, if TV is too annoying for you then just click on that red cross in the top corner of the screen, but don't let it affect your decision on weather to settle here or not. For a small island there is a lot of space, you just have to choose your friends selectively, and have the time of your life.

[LivinginKata]

A number of insulting/inflammatory posts have been removed. Please keep it civil, thank you.

[geriatrickid]

umm I think I LVnLOS

Magnificent post. (the 1st 1)

Edited September 23, 2009 by geriatrickid

[expatdiane]

Welcome EPD: Quick answer is "no", the ranting members of TV are not typical of ex-pats in Thailand. Also, I would advise making shorter posts in the future, and you'll probably get a better response. My view is that Phuket is paradise, but it takes time to get to know the people who are not just after a quick baht.

Best of luck!

TN

Thank you, yes i understand the point about a shorter posting.This is my first and probably only time ,so wanted to "lay it on the table" so the "nasties' would not find anything to 'create angst' about. I failed....

Unfortunately i see already that 1 of your regular ranters have 'stirred the pot' and one of his puppets added his emoticons ,i guess, in support!..??? Question please..Is the term cyber-bullying passe? If so, maybe that is their problem. Forum i believe is about discussion yes?

And one poor chap couldn't understand my 30 years part , but he posted a great reply..lol

Thank you very much for all [the majority] the good replies, and even thank you for the angry replies that eminate from "The noisy few." From the responses, I see that everyone is all too familier with these 'spoilers'. It is a shame that these nicer people have had to leave TV at times because of the bullies ,as many have very positive replies and information.I will in turn try to reply to you all, privately,and as i can see that the mob is restless and the mod is involved in removals already i shall sign out, rather than get invoved in gutter tactics.

Fortunately all my years in security management has taught me that you are way better off to walk away from fools and bullies.Concentrate on all the positives in life and enjoy, or you also will become "bitter and twisted'.

Edited September 23, 2009 by expatdiane

[katabeachbum]

Most expats in LOS I know have never posted in TV, myself included until a few months ago, and some dont even know it exists.

[chickencurry]

it seems a very intimidating male dominated domain ,[hello, where are you ladies?] lol..

I think it is male dominated because there are far more male expats here than female expats. If you've been to Phuket, and ventured outside the hotels, you'll notice that most of the male expats have Thai girlfriends or wives and I guess most of them (the Thai ladies) don't post on this forum (maybe they are wise ladies). If you only visit during the winter months, you'll see a lot more western ladies on Phuket as a lot of people "winter over" avoiding European/American chilly winters.

Where are you ladies? Expat ladies? There are a few. I'm one of them (a retired Brit). I know a couple of others but this place is not "big" on expat ladies from my experience (I've been here almost 2 years now). Where are they? Singapore, KL, Hong Kong, Penang, Sydney, Melbourne to name a few.

[LivinLOS]

Excuse me.. But what bullying are you referring to ??

We are each entitled to our own opinions.. And I would think duty bound to defend what we think.

So far the only insults and attacks were against me, the cyber bullying cry seems a little odd ??

[LivinLOS]

Where are you ladies? Expat ladies? There are a few. I'm one of them (a retired Brit). I know a couple of others but this place is not "big" on expat ladies from my experience (I've been here almost 2 years now). Where are they? Singapore, KL, Hong Kong, Penang, Sydney, Melbourne to name a few.

We tried moving my mother out here, tried to have a nice life in the sun for retirement and cheaper for me to support than supporting her in the UK. But after 9 months we gave up and she returned. Just too many times bad things happened to her, and could find no women to really socialize with, she suffers from anxiety and if they kind of skinned her alive.

Shame and its not something I wouldnt try again as the UK isnt a place to get old alone.

[grumpyoldman]

As a longtime guest voyeur, my handle I think sums up the lot

[dogblower]

Given that I have lived in Phuket for over 20 years and know probably several hundred expats, yet only know 6 people who post on this forum, I would have to say that no, posters here are not representative.

[MJo]

Thaivisa is good if you are looking information.

Any other subject in Phuket, Pattaya and Chiang Mai forums are dominated by small bunch of self proclaimed "mods" that will attack each and everyone outside their group and more so if you are a newbie in the forum. Isaan forum then is a place for group of overpolite gentlemen complemeting and patting each others back in turns but in a good and civilized manner

But here comes the tip of the day: "igoner user" function comes handy ignoring those that you do not want to argue with daily. And yes, there is the ladies forum.

For you question i do agree with the others that most expats don't read or post to Thaivisa.

And last.... to Thaivisa...

[chickencurry]

As a longtime guest voyeur, my handle I think sums up the lot

Grumpy, I think I know you don't I?