Red Warning Stamp at Vientienne

[jazzbo]

Kuhn T. -- I can only relate to the American experience from a personal standpoint. While most passports that are turned in after having been dunked in the ocean or having gone through the spin cycle are turned in for harmless reasons, the Homeland Security people are well aware that someone may have reason to deliberately ruin a passport and they would certainly keep track of such info. The data is cumulative and perhaps there are hundreds of variables that are tracked... I have no idea whether the US Embassy notifies the Thai MFA of persons who request new passports when there are multiple Thai Visas and entries let alone a red stamp; but it sure would not surprise me.

As you say, with a 5 -year expiration the NZ situation is different; but I would not also be surprised if the NZ consular officials similarly notify the Thai MFA of such request when there is an over-abundance of visas and entries... and I would believe that anytime they so request, the Thai MFA people can obtain from a home country's Embassy the link of previous passport number sequences for any given individual.

[tropo]

Kuhn T. -- I can only relate to the American experience from a personal standpoint. While most passports that are turned in after having been dunked in the ocean or having gone through the spin cycle are turned in for harmless reasons, the Homeland Security people are well aware that someone may have reason to deliberately ruin a passport and they would certainly keep track of such info. The data is cumulative and perhaps there are hundreds of variables that are tracked... I have no idea whether the US Embassy notifies the Thai MFA of persons who request new passports when there are multiple Thai Visas and entries let alone a red stamp; but it sure would not surprise me.

As you say, with a 5 -year expiration the NZ situation is different; but I would not also be surprised if the NZ consular officials similarly notify the Thai MFA of such request when there is an over-abundance of visas and entries... and I would believe that anytime they so request, the Thai MFA people can obtain from a home country's Embassy the link of previous passport number sequences for any given individual.

The Thai Embassy in Vientiane is giving out back-to-back tourist visas like candy with 5, 6 or more in passport. Do you really think the NZ Consulate or any other consulates would be concerned about multiple Thai visas in a passport?

Obviously applying frequently for a new passport would not be recommended.

[jazzbo]

Kuhn T -- You asked a question -- I gave an answer. The NZ Embassy would only be interested in why someone might request a new passport. If there is no problem in Vientiane, then there is no need for your to request a new passport red stamp or otherwise. I am only describing capabilities -- what they might do with any individual who knows and they surely won't say. But after you've been through interrogations on several different occasions as I have you might look at these things differently.

[tropo]

Kuhn T -- You asked a question -- I gave an answer. The NZ Embassy would only be interested in why someone might request a new passport. If there is no problem in Vientiane, then there is no need for your to request a new passport red stamp or otherwise. I am only describing capabilities -- what they might do with any individual who knows and they surely won't say. But after you've been through interrogations on several different occasions as I have you might look at these things differently.

There was a problem in Vientiane for my gf - she was refused a visa. There was also a need for her to get a new passport because it was full and onto the very last page with less than a year until expiry. We tried for new tourist visa fully anticipating the possiblity of failure, but were successful.

I'm sorry, but you took my "don't be a cowboy, get a new passport" comment too seriously and now I wish I hadn't made it. I'm not advocating that people should start losing their passports as a way to get more tourist visas. I'm merely reporting what happened with us and people can decide for themselves what they should do. Even if people do lose a passport or two in an effort to obtain more tourist visas, it's only a temporary solution as obviously it wouldn't be wise to do it too often. At 9,500 baht a pop (plus the cost of a trip to Bangkok) I wouldn't really want to buy new ones all the time anyway.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how getting a new passport when the existing one is full of Thai visas is any reason for an interrogation. If the Thai Consulate in Vientiane is not too concerned about multiple tourist visas in a passport (allowing up to at least 6 or 7 double entries [3 or more years in total]), why should a foreign Embassy be so concerned to the point of reporting it to Thai MFA people. Do you really think that a foreign Embassy will send reports of its own citizens to the Thai government. ("Hey, our citizen, Joe Blog has been staying in Thailand for too long on tourist visas....you had better check him out")

When I recently renewed an Australian passport they took the old one, cut it and stamped it invalid. There was no investigation as to its contents. The same happened when my gf picked up her new passport. They had it for about 30 seconds, just enough time to punch some holes in it. They couldn't have cared less about its contents.

I understand an embassy's need to be careful about reissuing "lost" passports, but that's normally taken care of with a police report about the loss.

I know its tough dealing with Uncle Sam and I don't envy you, but your concerns border on paranoia. Were your interrogations related to having too many visas in your passport? Were they related to requesting a new passport after you lost yours? I know the US government like to keep a close eye on people coming and going frequently or living long time in countries such as Thailand, especially if you're under retirement age. Perhaps you have a "high risk, keep a close eye on" profile.

Edited December 18, 2009 by tropo

[jazzbo]

Kuhn T -- I am only discussing what the various Embassies are CAPABLE of doing -- obviously renewing a passport because its pages are full is no cause for suspicion. There are also many other harmless reasons for renewing a passport that is not full or ready to expire but in the odd chance that someone has deliberately ruined a passport etc. I believe any such renewal is recorded.

What any Embassy does in any given circumstance is completely unknowable but that does not mean they do not record data or send data back and forth as standard procedure. And again, at least in the USA the Profile on any individual who travels routinely outside the USA might have hundreds or more data points.

My interrogations to the best of my knowledge relate to having a common 'Joe Smith' type of name, extensive travel and remaining outside the USA for long periods of time, access to IRS records, and that I spent much time in PR China in the late 80s early 90s when such travel to PR China on extended Visa was uncommon and required a State level / Party invitation which I did in fact have.

The interrogations are usually related to places I have lived in the USA as they are trying to locate another individual, as they ONCE confirmed to me, with a similar profile. If there are other reasons, I sure as hel_l do not know. Once you have been through these interrogations -- knowing full well you are NOT the person of interest but knowing that some snafu might cause them to make some mistaken assumption -- it goes beyond the realm of the paranoid... and I am a trained mathematician so I know in part how these large data sets work.

I have never had any problem as regards renewal of passports but I have never lost a passport or tried to obtain a new one long before expiration of validity. I appreciate your remark about the 'cowboy' and deliberately losing a passport; I thought that it was out of character for you.

[tropo]

Once you have been through these interrogations -- knowing full well you are NOT the person of interest but knowing that some snafu might cause them to make some mistaken assumption -- it goes beyond the realm of the paranoid... and I am a trained mathematician so I know in part how these large data sets work.

I have gone through this already. Someone with the same name and initial but a different birthdate had committed a long list of crimes in Australia. Everytime I was stopped for a licence check or some minor traffic infringement I would end up at the police station being interrogated.

[oMega69]

Iam 100% Sure that after the Free VISA trial , the Consulate in Vientiane will issue Tourist Visas again for them with RED stamps ! ., this issue why they started to sign out RED stamps is was done becuse they wanted to put down the foot to show they dont like to give away Visas for free ! So all is going to get back to normal after the free Visa trial March 2010 .

Edited December 20, 2009 by oMega69

[thaiphoon]

this issue why they started to sign out RED stamps is was done becuse they wanted to put down the foot to show they dont like to give away Visas for free ! So all is going to get back to normal after the free Visa trial March 2010 .

I will believe it when I see it ... Of more interest is what will happen to people currently with the red stamp should they re-apply for a new visa.

[My Friend Same]

So then has anyone with a red stamp successfully applied for a new tourist visa?? I am going on holiday in 2 weeks so I will require a new visa...

I doubt you're ever going to read any such report. It's a lot of effort to go through to try something that is likey to fail.

I've heard from an agent that once the free tourist visa period is over in March they may be easing off on the restrictions.

I just got a red stamp yesterday on my 6th tourist visa in passport. I used an agent, so I wouldn't count on them influencing the visa application process.

Hot news: New passport = visa with no red warning stamp even when previous passport had one. New passport = visa even after a previous refusal.

Tropo, whats going on dude? you trying for another double entry visa after you got one a month ago and your filly gf was denied? thai emb threw you a red stamp cause they cant figure out why you need yet another visa after they gave you 1 a month ago. whats going on dude? what were you trying to do? get another double so it would coincide with your gf's double in her new passport? Or you used your entries border crossing with her so she got her 15 days? all seems wacky but like to hear your story. btw, jazzbo and all this homeland security garbage is irrelevant I think but year Tropo lets get something so your gf can hang around a while

[tropo]

Tropo, whats going on dude? you trying for another double entry visa after you got one a month ago and your filly gf was denied? thai emb threw you a red stamp cause they cant figure out why you need yet another visa after they gave you 1 a month ago. whats going on dude? what were you trying to do? get another double so it would coincide with your gf's double in her new passport? Or you used your entries border crossing with her so she got her 15 days? all seems wacky but like to hear your story. btw, jazzbo and all this homeland security garbage is irrelevant I think but year Tropo lets get something so your gf can hang around a while

There's nothing wacky about it and everything was carefully planned.

I got that double entry visa 2 months ago (not 1). I used up both entries by doing a border run to Cambodia. I needed to have a visa which coincided exactly with my gf's because we live and travel together. I fully expected the red stamp but wasn't concerned as I intend to use another passport (different nationality) next year.

As far as the Thai consulate is concerned, there's nothing wacky about a 3 month tourist visa being used up in 2 months.

I hope this clears up the confusion.

[tropo]

Iam 100% Sure that after the Free VISA trial , the Consulate in Vientiane will issue Tourist Visas again for them with RED stamps ! ., this issue why they started to sign out RED stamps is was done becuse they wanted to put down the foot to show they dont like to give away Visas for free ! So all is going to get back to normal after the free Visa trial March 2010 .

You've got this wrong. The red stamps did not come about because of a policy from the Thai Consulate in Vientiane to cut down on workload because visas were free. The red stamps started when the Immigration Department in Thailand issued a directive to all consulates to stop issuing back-to-back tourist visas to prevent people from living and working in Thailand on tourist visas.

Your confidence that things will get back to "normal" in March amounts to nothing more than wishful thinking.

Edited December 20, 2009 by tropo

[devaram]

Iam 100% Sure that after the Free VISA trial , the Consulate in Vientiane will issue Tourist Visas again for them with RED stamps ! ., this issue why they started to sign out RED stamps is was done becuse they wanted to put down the foot to show they dont like to give away Visas for free ! So all is going to get back to normal after the free Visa trial March 2010 .

You've got this wrong. The red stamps did not come about because of a policy from the Thai Consulate in Vientiane to cut down on workload because visas were free. The red stamps started when the Immigration Department in Thailand issued a directive to all consulates to stop issuing back-to-back tourist visas to prevent people from living and working in Thailand on tourist visas.

Your confidence that things will get back to "normal" in March amounts to nothing more than wishful thinking.

Yes but the directive came after the free visas not before- no connection? There could be a connection. Wishful thinking or logical reasoning....does anyone really know what these guys are really up to?

Edited December 22, 2009 by devaram

[tropo]

Yes but the directive came after the free visas not before- no connection? There could be a connection. Wishful thinking or logical reasoning....does anyone really know what these guys are really up to?

They've been tightening up on everything over the past several years. Logical reasoning would have lead one to assume that back-to-back tourist visas had to go sooner or later. I certainly didn't expect them to last and am not surprised about the latest developments. I'm surprised I can still get a visa even with a red warning stamp with 6 others already in my passport.

Logically, what do you think the hundreds of Filipinos and citizens from other SE Asian nations who were lining up in Vietiane everyday were doing in Thailand? On extended vacations or retired?

Let's see if a grab for cash will be enough incentive for Vientiane to continue issuing tourist visas against the directives from head office from March onward. I'm not so sure. Penang was making a killing 2 years back, but now the consulate is practically deserted.

[wintermute]

Logically, what do you think the hundreds of Filipinos and citizens from other SE Asian nations who were lining up in Vietiane everyday were doing in Thailand? On extended vacations or retired?

They could have prevented a lot of abuse by putting hard limits on nationalities who are known to be habitual abusers of visa regulations. ASEAN agreements should have taken this into consideration.

[mussen]

They could have prevented a lot of abuse by putting hard limits on nationalities who are known to be habitual abusers of visa regulations. ASEAN agreements should have taken this into consideration.

That's a good point, one which gets brought up quite often, but are they allowed to do that? Simply start refusing a particular countries citizens entry? What are the repercussions of doing so?

[wintermute]

They could have prevented a lot of abuse by putting hard limits on nationalities who are known to be habitual abusers of visa regulations. ASEAN agreements should have taken this into consideration.

That's a good point, one which gets brought up quite often, but are they allowed to do that? Simply start refusing a particular countries citizens entry? What are the repercussions of doing so?

They can't just refuse without good reason because a lot of this is linked to trade and business agreements. Visa reciprocity is something they don't want to tamper with too extremely unless they want the same to happen to thei citizens or for certain business "restrictions" to come into play.

With that being said there are nationalities like Filipinos who should be given hard limits on number of tourist visas (probably no more than 1 with extension and sizable time limit before applying again) because of rampant abuse and a track record for illegal employment.

[tropo]

With that being said there are nationalities like Filipinos who should be given hard limits on number of tourist visas (probably no more than 1 with extension and sizable time limit before applying again) because of rampant abuse and a track record for illegal employment.

No they shouldn't as that is unfair. They should put the hard limits across the board because although many Filipinos are working on tourist visas, so are a lot of other people from other countries. The total of people working on tourist visas from other countries would dwarf the number of Filipinos doing it. I think you would agree that only a small percentage of back-to-back tourists are real tourists.

Anyway we look at it, Vientiane is the only consulate in the SE Asia region which still issues back-to-back double entry tourist visas. They clamp down and everyone is out of luck. People expecting to stay in Thailand on tourist visas should start looking for other options.

[Brunus]

They could have prevented a lot of abuse by putting hard limits on nationalities who are known to be habitual abusers of visa regulations. ASEAN agreements should have taken this into consideration.

That's a good point, one which gets brought up quite often, but are they allowed to do that? Simply start refusing a particular countries citizens entry? What are the repercussions of doing so?

They did it already. Citizens of many African countries have to apply for a tourist visa at the embassy in their home country. They are not refusing the entry but they make impossible for these people to have back to back visas.

Of course when speaking about ASEAN countries there is much more involved.

[wintermute]

With that being said there are nationalities like Filipinos who should be given hard limits on number of tourist visas (probably no more than 1 with extension and sizable time limit before applying again) because of rampant abuse and a track record for illegal employment.

No they shouldn't as that is unfair. They should put the hard limits across the board because although many Filipinos are working on tourist visas, so are a lot of other people from other countries. The total of people working on tourist visas from other countries would dwarf the number of Filipinos doing it. I think you would agree that only a small percentage of back-to-back tourists are real tourists.

Anyway we look at it, Vientiane is the only consulate in the SE Asia region which still issues back-to-back double entry tourist visas. They clamp down and everyone is out of luck. People expecting to stay in Thailand on tourist visas should start looking for other options.

I beg to differ. It's perfectly fair and countries have different policies for different nationalities anyways. For example Phillipine nationals are flagged in the U.S. as potential illegal immigrants because of their track record of overstaying. Thailand has every right to establish the same criteria instead of pushing blanket regulation on every nationality that can afford a tourist visa. I know of quite a few expats who are independently employed (overseas web business, stock trading, rental income, etc..) who do not rely on Thailand for their livelihood but choose to live here nearly year around. This is a lifestyle that very few developing world nationals have and it's easy to figure out that most of the long term visa stayers from ASEAN countries are probably working illegally.

Edited December 23, 2009 by wintermute

[clockworkorange]

With that being said there are nationalities like Filipinos who should be given hard limits on number of tourist visas (probably no more than 1 with extension and sizable time limit before applying again) because of rampant abuse and a track record for illegal employment.

No they shouldn't as that is unfair. They should put the hard limits across the board because although many Filipinos are working on tourist visas, so are a lot of other people from other countries. The total of people working on tourist visas from other countries would dwarf the number of Filipinos doing it. I think you would agree that only a small percentage of back-to-back tourists are real tourists.

Anyway we look at it, Vientiane is the only consulate in the SE Asia region which still issues back-to-back double entry tourist visas. They clamp down and everyone is out of luck. People expecting to stay in Thailand on tourist visas should start looking for other options.

I beg to differ. It's perfectly fair and countries have different policies for different nationalities anyways. For example Phillipine nationals are flagged in the U.S. as potential illegal immigrants because of their track record of overstaying. Thailand has every right to establish the same criteria instead of pushing blanket regulation on every nationality that can afford a tourist visa. I know of quite a few expats who are independently employed (overseas web business, stock trading, rental income, etc..) who do not rely on Thailand for their livelihood but choose to live here nearly year around. This is a lifestyle that very few developing world nationals have and it's easy to figure out that most of the long term visa stayers from ASEAN countries are probably working illegally.

That's correct. To say that Thai immigration should treat evey nationality the same is ignoring the fact that the vast majority of countries flag certain places as more risky, usually based on past experience, and rightly impose stricter requirements on visas to nationals of those countries.

Given the way that immigration policy is implemented in our own countries of origin, it is unreasonable to complain about Thailand's expectation that eternal tourists get visas that reflect their true circumstances.

[tropo]

That's correct. To say that Thai immigration should treat evey nationality the same is ignoring the fact that the vast majority of countries flag certain places as more risky, usually based on past experience, and rightly impose stricter requirements on visas to nationals of those countries.

Given the way that immigration policy is implemented in our own countries of origin, it is unreasonable to complain about Thailand's expectation that eternal tourists get visas that reflect their true circumstances.

There's a lot of people here hoping that Filipinos and other SE Asian citizens will be the only ones to be stopped as a result of the tourist visa crackdown, but this is wishful thinking. Penang has stopped giving out back-to-back tourist visas to most applicants, so how long before Vientiane follows suit.

I've never been shocked or surprised by any crackdown on tourist visas. It had to come.

[devaram]

Money is what rules the world so when they tally up how much money they are making selling visas to "big spending westerners" and how much they are losing on people who might or might not be competing with Thais on the job market and which countries those might be most likely from or not from then they could vote in favor of continuing a liberal policy of issuing tourist visas to those countries that are spending money and obviously not in competition with Thai workers.

Speaking of money please give advise about what currency I need in Vientienne. Can one get by with only thai baht?

[tropo]

Money is what rules the world so when they tally up how much money they are making selling visas to "big spending westerners" and how much they are losing on people who might or might not be competing with Thais on the job market and which countries those might be most likely from or not from then they could vote in favor of continuing a liberal policy of issuing tourist visas to those countries that are spending money and obviously not in competition with Thai workers.

Speaking of money please give advise about what currency I need in Vientienne. Can one get by with only thai baht?

Another wishful thinker. What Thailand is losing as a result of clamping down on tourist visas cannot be quantified, so it will never come into the equation.

Penang shut down the best "visa-shop" in the region so don't kid yourself thinking that Vientiane cannot. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Take enough USD to pay for your Laos VOA and Thai baht. The restaurants I frequent will pay me change in baht if I ask so I can totally avoid getting Laos Kip.

[TopDogger]

Iam 100% Sure that after the Free VISA trial , the Consulate in Vientiane will issue Tourist Visas again for them with RED stamps ! ., this issue why they started to sign out RED stamps is was done becuse they wanted to put down the foot to show they dont like to give away Visas for free ! So all is going to get back to normal after the free Visa trial March 2010 .

The reason they started to issue the red stamps is because far too many people are abusing tourist visas, and using them to stay in Thailand indefinitely when they should be getting a non-immigrant visa.

I've not had a red stamp and don't use tourist visa's, but this information was given direct to me from the Thai consulate to Laos himself, his take on the situation was that if people wanted to stay here indefinitely they should possess the correct visa and there was no good reason for people not to have an appropriate visa..

[devaram]

Money is what rules the world so when they tally up how much money they are making selling visas to "big spending westerners" and how much they are losing on people who might or might not be competing with Thais on the job market and which countries those might be most likely from or not from then they could vote in favor of continuing a liberal policy of issuing tourist visas to those countries that are spending money and obviously not in competition with Thai workers.

Speaking of money please give advise about what currency I need in Vientienne. Can one get by with only thai baht?

Another wishful thinker. What Thailand is losing as a result of clamping down on tourist visas cannot be quantified, so it will never come into the equation.

Penang shut down the best "visa-shop" in the region so don't kid yourself thinking that Vientiane cannot. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Take enough USD to pay for your Laos VOA and Thai baht. The restaurants I frequent will pay me change in baht if I ask so I can totally avoid getting Laos Kip.

Tropo do the guest houses, taxis etc take thai baht as well? Will the foreign exchange banks change thai baht into kip or does it have to be dollars only?

[tropo]

Iam 100% Sure that after the Free VISA trial , the Consulate in Vientiane will issue Tourist Visas again for them with RED stamps ! ., this issue why they started to sign out RED stamps is was done becuse they wanted to put down the foot to show they dont like to give away Visas for free ! So all is going to get back to normal after the free Visa trial March 2010 .

The reason they started to issue the red stamps is because far too many people are abusing tourist visas, and using them to stay in Thailand indefinitely when they should be getting a non-immigrant visa.

I've not had a red stamp and don't use tourist visa's, but this information was given direct to me from the Thai consulate to Laos himself, his take on the situation was that if people wanted to stay here indefinitely they should possess the correct visa and there was no good reason for people not to have an appropriate visa..

You've got this back to front. It becomes tedious on these threads to constantly hear people accusing tourist visa holders as "abusers".

You can't blame people for abusing anything if tourist visas are offered ad infinitum from a consulate. Obviously if the consulate continues to provide them people will go back and get them. Since when do people self regulate? On planet earth they don't. Where do you come from?

This "abuse" you speak of is initiated by the issuing consulates. They are responsible.

The only reason they have started issuing red stamp warnings is because of the directive from Thai Immigration back in September this year. Before that there didn't seem to be a limit.

[tropo]

Tropo do the guest houses, taxis etc take thai baht as well? Will the foreign exchange banks change thai baht into kip or does it have to be dollars only?

The hotel where I stay takes baht or USD as payment. They will give me change in baht if I request it.

The restaurants I use will take baht, USD and even Euro. I always pay in baht and request my change back in baht. No problem here.

Even the minimart will give me change in baht if I request it.

On the last 2 trips I made I ended up with zero Kip. That's the way I like it. You cannot change kip back to baht in Thailand, but you can probably exchange it for baht at a money changer before you leave.

I would suggest you buy enough USD before you go to Vientiane to pay for your Laos VOA. That could save you 500 baht depending on your nationality.

The rough conversion most places use right now is 1 baht = 250 Laos Kip or 1 USD = 8500 Laos Kip

[hullupullo]

Update

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Vientiane-Re...Pe-t330077.html

[lifemagic]

Just back from the embassy today. I used had used one entry of a double I got in dec with no red stamp. They looked at every page of my passport. They found the unused entry and said only one valid visa at a time (I wanted three entries before april as I can return to cm, then go europe in June, so it just suits me).

So I went to the main building to confirm this. I.e. can you only have one visa at a time. Yes. I asked if he would cancel the single entry I have left so I can have a double and he said no. If you have an entry it has to be used.

I asked him how long the free visas would be lasting until and he said March 4th. I asked him if he was sure and he said he wasn't sure about the fourth, but was sure about the March.

I might cross-post this info a little; hope that's OK. I did check the boards here with my plan and didn't find any info about only one visa at a time. Perhaps it's obvious to everyone but me?

[ThailandTommy]

I got my 2 entry visa today in Vientiane. I have one 3 entry visa from Helsinki and two 2 entry visas from Vientiane before that.

Today I also got red stamp beside my visa:

"Remark: The holder has travelled to Thailand with Tourist Visa 9 times. The Embassy may not accept the application next time"

Classic T.I.T........hey, lets give out free visas to encourage tourism, but we don't actually want you to apply for one, and really we don't want you here at all, we're doing just fine without you!.....hmmm

I lived in the LoS for 6 years full time on a retirement visa, I had enough so I sold up and went elsewhere. I used to report every 90 days and renew it annually, there was always a 'problem' that would 'go away for 5,000 THB'. Cost to stay in LoS full time 5,000 THB annually.

My circumstances dictate that I spend 6 months here and 6 months in US, I arrived on 31st Oct 09 I received a 'free' tourist visa expiring on 29th November.

On 25th November off I pop to Laos to get a 'free' 6 month tourist visa, (approximate travelling /hotel cost 5,000 THB).

I am given a double entry visa from the Thai Consulate stating that I have to enter before 24th February 2010, when leaving Laos my passport is stamped 'admitted until 24th January 2010.

What this actually requires me to do is go to the local immigration office before 24th January 2010 where they for a fee of 1,900 THB give me an extension 23rd February then I have to do another visa run (estimated cost 2,000 THB).

I should then be given permission to stay until 24th April. I then have to go to immigration and buy another months extension for 1,900 THB.

I will have/want to leave by 24th May 2010. Cost for the privilage of staying in LoS for 6 1/2 months 10,800 THB.

Nothing is free in LoS