Red Warning Stamp at Vientienne

[eek]

There does not appear to be any logical pattern to the red stamp process.

You have that right!

[Maestro]

I am interested in this subject. What exact words are used to designate your passport, issued in a Scandinavian country (Denmark, Norway, Sweden or Finland) as your property?

For others having a scholarly interest in this, in my Swiss passport it says nothing about whose property this document is. It has a text saying that unofficial changes, additions, personal notes and the illegal use of the passport are prohibited and that any loss of it must be notified to the nearest police station.

--

Maestro

[thaitang]

I am interested in this subject. What exact words are used to designate your passport, issued in a Scandinavian country (Denmark, Norway, Sweden or Finland) as your property?

For others having a scholarly interest in this, in my Swiss passport it says nothing about whose property this document is. It has a text saying that unofficial changes, additions, personal notes and the illegal use of the passport are prohibited and that any loss of it must be notified to the nearest police station.

--

Maestro

There was probably something (clause) in the paperwork you filled out when you applied for your passport, requiring a signature, stating that the passport will remain the property of the issuing country. I think I remember reading something to that affect the last time I applied for a new passport anyways.

cheers,

tt

[richard_smith237]

Is this a money thing ??

In the same way people with motorcycles get harassed, bothered and generally screwed over where as those with cars hardly get stopped…

If you travel home (to US, Aus or Europe etc) every 6, 12 months (or what ever the normal visa is) then you have no issues. If you border run every 15 days you are screwed.

If you run a variable combination you are screwed after some time, and if you don’t have enough money in your account for the extensions of your marriage or retirement visas you are also screwed.

It seems that one way or another regardless of your situation or the morality involved (families etc)… one thing remains true… “Thailand is ok for those who can afford to stay”…..

It might seem harsh, but you get a ‘Big Red’ stamp… which to me seems like a ‘You Got Away With it a few Times Already, But We Know What You Are Doing’ stamp.

Pretty decent of them really.

How many countries give you this kind of warning?

[tim73]

There does not appear to be any logical pattern to the red stamp process.

One possible way is to travel out every month BUT FLY BACK to Thailand. You got 30 days every time and costs less than 5000 Baht, in some cases even less. I don't know any restrictions in 30 day visa exempt entries...

[phetaroi]

Is this a money thing ??

In the same way people with motorcycles get harassed, bothered and generally screwed over where as those with cars hardly get stopped…

If you travel home (to US, Aus or Europe etc) every 6, 12 months (or what ever the normal visa is) then you have no issues. If you border run every 15 days you are screwed.

If you run a variable combination you are screwed after some time, and if you don't have enough money in your account for the extensions of your marriage or retirement visas you are also screwed.

It seems that one way or another regardless of your situation or the morality involved (families etc)… one thing remains true… "Thailand is ok for those who can afford to stay"…..

It might seem harsh, but you get a 'Big Red' stamp… which to me seems like a 'You Got Away With it a few Times Already, But We Know What You Are Doing' stamp.

Pretty decent of them really.

How many countries give you this kind of warning?

I just don't understand "you people" (my term). Almost all the people who post in this forum come from a country where passport/visa rules are extremely strict. How many visa runs to Mexico do you think the average Thai on a short-time visa in the United States can take? You act as if Thailand is your personal resort where you can come and go as you wish. If they are enforcing their laws, they are "harassing" you. And if you don't like what they are doing, they are immoral. I would say it's the other way around. If you're consistently breaking the law, you're immoral...or at least immoral also.

I'm here on a retirement visa/extension. I realize it's a privilege, and one that can be taken away. If it is someday for some reason, I'll be very unhappy, but I would go around calling the nation immoral.

How you all can think you're taking the "high ground", I don't know. Perhaps there is no high ground.

[My Friend Same]

It seems like they are giving red stamps to those they suspect (or perhaps know) are working illegally in Thailand. Who knows what info their computers can tell them.

Edited October 27, 2009 by My Friend Same

[Heng]

Silly economics, surely they should at least see how much folks are willing to pay per visa before they limit the number of visits one may have.

[okkoolio]

There does not appear to be any logical pattern to the red stamp process.

One possible way is to travel out every month BUT FLY BACK to Thailand. You got 30 days every time and costs less than 5000 Baht, in some cases even less. I don't know any restrictions in 30 day visa exempt entries...

any issues or restrictions with this option? would avoid a lot of forms/ hassles. could you possibly just keep buying return trip tickets and showing up back in the airport the next day? what about the "your only supposed to be in thailand 180 days out of a year" rule?

Edited October 28, 2009 by okkoolio

[Ricci]

Picked up my 7th and 8th consecutive TV in Vientiane last Monday.

No red stamp.

[beechguy]

There does not appear to be any logical pattern to the red stamp process.

One possible way is to travel out every month BUT FLY BACK to Thailand. You got 30 days every time and costs less than 5000 Baht, in some cases even less. I don't know any restrictions in 30 day visa exempt entries...

any issues or restrictions with this option? would avoid a lot of forms/ hassles. could you possibly just keep buying return trip tickets and showing up back in the airport the next day? what about the "your only supposed to be in thailand 180 days out of a year" rule?

The rule limiting 90 days within 180 for "Visa Exempt" entries, got canceled by an immigration order in November, 2008. So far as I know, there is nothing in writing, limiting the use of "Visa exempt" entries by air. That new order also changed the land border entries to 15 days. But, it would be interesting see how long that would go on before attracting attention, and being restricted again.

I still don't see the reason, not to get visa. Even if Vientienne does deny a visa, there are other locations that would still issue one.

Edited October 28, 2009 by beechguy

[tropo]

Here is this red stamp

Just take the visa paper out of your passport. No more red stamp. Nobody has any idea it was there. Thai officials get upset about removing old visas, but a) they take way too much space; and passport is not property of Thailand, but property of the issuing country. I had a lecture about "tampering with official documents". So, if my passport expires, and I burn or shred it, I am tampering with an official document? Ridiculous. Of course, some visa offices might use non-removable adhesive.

Even without a red warning stamp, every visa sticker has a stamp running over the edge and/or a signature over the edge too. This is done especially to prevent tampering i.e. to make it obvious when a sticker has been removed.

[tropo]

I should have looked more closely. NO PROBLEM. Get a new passport, if it's really important. It gives you another 10 entries then, right? In my case I have dual citizenship. That gives me two passports to work with, especially in cases where I didn't want a single entry visa be wasted where a simple entry-stamp would suffice.

You cannot juggle 2 passports from different countries at land borders. You'd have to fly in and out.

[tropo]

Just came back from Vientiane, received double entry TR and they gave me a little different red stamp:

"Remark: The holder of this passport travels to

Thailand under A tourist visa several times which may

result in the refusal of a visa in the future."

Only one prior back-to-back TR visa, one older TR and one ED visa. Six 15 day visa exempt entries.

Thanks for the report. Use of this stamp has been reported before, and suspect is now being used so the embassy does not have to calculate the number of entries and record that on the passport. Maybe the visa exempt entries have triggered the red stamp for you, as there are many reports from members with several tourist visas not getting red stamped. There does not appear to be any logical pattern to the red stamp process.

One point that hasn't been stressed enough is that the nationality of the applicant comes into play here.

Last week, travelling to Vientiane with my Filipino GF:

New Zealand passport with 4 back to back tourist visas - received a double entry tourist visa with No red stamp.

Philippines passport with 6 back-to-back tourist visas - No visa!

They are hitting the SE Asian "tourists" the hardest for obvious reasons. Look forward to shorter queues in the future.

Edited October 28, 2009 by tropo

[Yimmy]

Picked up my 7th and 8th consecutive TV in Vientiane last Monday.

No red stamp.

Any tips?

How were you dressed?

Did you speak some thai? Wai the official?

[bangkokburning]

It does not matter how you are dressed. Sadly, it does not even matter if you have alcohol on your breath (see my earlier posts). Go ahead get all spiffed up. I recommend Chinos and a long sleeve business shirt, just like teachers wear!

But what I wish to address is supporting materials. I always make the run with printouts from my banks. Last year I had shown and asked the guy if I could include the papers (as a hedge). He was throughly disinterested. This year, I had the same and the young man waved them away as well.

It is quite easy to see why they would flag a perpetual Pinay visa runner, it would appear she is working at worst and at best taking your cash that would otherwise go to a 'Thai companion'. My only advice would be to bundle your visas together somehow or include a paper showing you are somehow supporting her and I would somehow come up with some 'evidence' of your marital engagement if not marriage. But it looks like your gig is up anyway.

It would be so easy for them to clear out the illegal workers:

Single visas only - as many as you like

One week for processing

Checking acct showing about 250,000B. Not a wad of papers showing every dime you have stashed about the world.

Random drug test and/or alcohol test

Anyone that shows up smelling of alcohol will be sent away

Anyone providing fraudulent docs - persona non-grata 5 years

*Anyone caught working illegally spends a year in jail

I honestly believe I have the issue more or less under control. I think I understand what will keep the red ink out of my passport. It's worked so far.

Did you wai the official? This is a wind-up right? "My" official very well might have been a Lao national and def 20 yrs my junior.

Edited October 28, 2009 by bangkokburning

[tropo]

It does not matter how you are dressed. Sadly, it does not even matter if you have alcohol on your breath (see my earlier posts). Go ahead get all spiffed up. I recommend Chinos and a long sleeve business shirt, just like teachers wear!

But what I wish to address is supporting materials. I always make the run with printouts from my banks. Last year I had shown and asked the guy if I could include the papers (as a hedge). He was throughly disinterested. This year, I had the same and the young man waved them away as well.

It is quite easy to see why they would flag a perpetual Pinay visa runner, it would appear she is working at worst and at best taking your cash that would otherwise go to a 'Thai companion'. My only advice would be to bundle your visas together somehow or include a paper showing you are somehow supporting her and I would somehow come up with some 'evidence' of your marital engagement if not marriage. But it looks like your gig is up anyway.

It would be so easy for them to clear out the illegal workers:

Single visas only - as many as you like

One week for processing

Checking acct showing about 250,000B. Not a wad of papers showing every dime you have stashed about the world.

Random drug test and/or alcohol test

Anyone that shows up smelling of alcohol will be sent away

Anyone providing fraudulent docs - persona non-grata 5 years

*Anyone caught working illegally spends a year in jail

I honestly believe I have the issue more or less under control. I think I understand what will keep the red ink out of my passport. It's worked so far.

Did you wai the official? This is a wind-up right? "My" official very well might have been a Lao national and def 20 yrs my junior.

I honestly believe you are deluded to think you have the issue under control. No one has this issue under control, not even the officials. Anyone who has been to the consulate in Vientiane would know there is no personal contact involved in the application process and there is no way to set it up (as was clearly evidenced by your papers being waived away with total disinterest).

Refusals are based on their current policies of the day and depend on the nationalities of the applicants and how much visa history they have. Right now they are clamping down on SE Asian applicants, but I've heard certain other European nations are being treated more harshly than others too. This is was what I heard from an agent.

Just one interesting example. Russians can now get 30 day visa exempt entries at land borders. All the rest get 15 as far as I know.

I made the big mistake of not considering, before I bothered travelling to Vientiane, that hardly any Filipinos post on here and I should have consulted with some local visa agents who handle a lot of Filipino customers. Most of the reports on this site come from Western nationalities.

My gig is not up by a long shot. In the grand scheme of things this will just be seen as a minor inconvenience. I have many options.

[bangkokburning]

Tropo:

As I stated prior, I agree, there is no personal interaction. I had stated this many times on this very thread. My understanding of the situation does not come from pleading and grubbing. It comes from what I have gleaned from TV posts and my own personal experience over the years. Of course, it is only a hunch, but having said that I have gone through a number of passports since this all began five years ago, perhaps 150 pages and no stamp. I am not a B2B visa runner and this is a large part of my formula. IMO if you are B2B visa runner, living in Thailand you are marked, just a matter of time.

All I wish to inform you and the board is that I have not received a red stamp and I believe I know why. As long as I continue with this lifestyle and method of procuring visa(s), I do not believe I will have problems with the TR visa.

What you say is true

Refusals are based on their current policies of the day and depend on the nationalities of the applicants and how much visa history they have. Right now they are clamping down on SE Asian applicants, but I've heard certain other European nations are being treated more harshly than others too. This is was what I heard from an agent.

I am sure you and your friend have options as you had stated (money brings options), I am uncertain how many of those will be able to be exercised in Thailand and for how long, you not I had noted what you perceive to be erratic policy. I see consistency.

For what it's worth when I visited the consulate there were only a handful of Philippinos, all of them appears to be working. I have no clue as to what sort of visa they had applied for. 85% Male, rock band types.

I have no issue with Thailand clamping down of S.E.A. multi TR visitors personally. What would a 20 something Philippino be doing in Thailand for months and years at a time, especially if not working? This is an easy one. Not like they are Singaporean golf fanatics.

Good Luck!

[tropo]

I have no issue with Thailand clamping down of S.E.A. multi TR visitors personally. What would a 20 something Philippino be doing in Thailand for months and years at a time, especially if not working? This is an easy one. Not like they are Singaporean golf fanatics.

Good Luck!

I have an issue with them clamping down on any nationalities just because of an assumption that they may be working. There are plenty of other nationalities working illegally on tourist visas too. The problem we have at the Vientiane consulate is that they don't seem to have made any allowance for personally interviewing applicants to establish the likelihood of them working. A look at a bank balance would be an easy way to decide if they are working or not. I had absolutely no way of explaning to anyone that I support her.

As a conseqence, we join the long queue of SEA applicants and get treated exactly the same.

A new passport may do the trick (she needs one anyway as hers is almost full) afterall it is a visa factory right now and all that seems to matter is now many stickers are stuck in your passport.

[Hawkup2000]

Male, 30 years old. Swedish passport. Just back from Vientienne. Got my 4th double TR. No red stamp. I tried to submit extra documents (a bank statement), but they didn't except any additional papers. Saw Vietnamese and Philippinos that were denied visas, but I also meet four girls with Myanmar passports who got their 5th TR in a row and no red stamp.

Edited October 31, 2009 by Hawkup2000

[tropo]

Male, 30 years old. Swedish passport. Just back from Vientienne. Got my 4th double TR. No red stamp. I tried to submit extra documents (a bank statement), but they didn't except any additional papers. Saw Vietnamese and Philippinos that were denied visas, but I also meet four girls with Myanmar passports who got their 5th TR in a row and no red stamp.

Thanks for the report. Any idea why Burmese applicants find it so easy?

[loganberry]

Flying up to Vientiane on Monday morning to apply for a Double TV on Tuesday. I spent time making a letter to the Consul and attached copies of reserved flights and hotel rooms for the next few months... but someone here said that he tried to attach a bank statement and they would not accept any additional documents.

So I will be applying the old-fashioned way like everybody else. Will let you all know how it goes after Wednesday.

Loganberry

[tropo]

Flying up to Vientiane on Monday morning to apply for a Double TV on Tuesday. I spent time making a letter to the Consul and attached copies of reserved flights and hotel rooms for the next few months... but someone here said that he tried to attach a bank statement and they would not accept any additional documents.

So I will be applying the old-fashioned way like everybody else. Will let you all know how it goes after Wednesday.

Loganberry

Supporting docs are a total waste of time in Vientiane. They'll decide for you based on your visa history and nationality. A no there means no.

What is your nationality?

[clockworkorange]

I have an issue with them clamping down on any nationalities just because of an assumption that they may be working. There are plenty of other nationalities working illegally on tourist visas too. The problem we have at the Vientiane consulate is that they don't seem to have made any allowance for personally interviewing applicants to establish the likelihood of them working. A look at a bank balance would be an easy way to decide if they are working or not. I had absolutely no way of explaning to anyone that I support her.

You have an issue? It's the same everywhere. In the western world, your country included, some nationalities have a much better chance of visiting multiple times with no questions asked than do others. New Zealand, for example, would let an American or Western European to pass as a tourist with no scrutiny at all, but would put even a bona fide Thai tourist through the wringer and assume that the Thai was trying to work illegally.

Same all over, and who are you to blame Thailand for clamping down, when Thais themselves are the ones who are usually at the receiving end of suspicion and strict immigration rules in your own country and elsewhere?

Edited November 1, 2009 by clockworkorange

[jazzbo]

I had absolutely no way of explaining to anyone that I support her. I think the way of explaining under Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs Visa regulations is referred to as 'marriage'.

[tim73]

Same all over, and who are you to blame Thailand for clamping down, when Thais themselves are the ones who are usually at the receiving end of suspicion and strict immigration rules in your own country and elsewhere?

Because in the West you are entitled to healthcare (except in the USA), your children can go to schools and tons of other benefits in case one gets a work permit. In Thailand you are in the "<deleted> you, pay me first and don't even think about setting up a business here without paying even more"-category with everything even with work permit.

So no wonder western countries scrutinize foreign tourists more (when coming from developing countries) because there are millions of illegals and every month coming more.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It does not matter how you are dressed. Sadly, it does not even matter if you have alcohol on your breath (see my earlier posts). Go ahead get all spiffed up. I recommend Chinos and a long sleeve business shirt, just like teachers wear!

But what I wish to address is supporting materials. I always make the run with printouts from my banks. Last year I had shown and asked the guy if I could include the papers (as a hedge). He was throughly disinterested. This year, I had the same and the young man waved them away as well.

It is quite easy to see why they would flag a perpetual Pinay visa runner, it would appear she is working at worst and at best taking your cash that would otherwise go to a 'Thai companion'. My only advice would be to bundle your visas together somehow or include a paper showing you are somehow supporting her and I would somehow come up with some 'evidence' of your marital engagement if not marriage. But it looks like your gig is up anyway.

It would be so easy for them to clear out the illegal workers:

Single visas only - as many as you like

One week for processing

Checking acct showing about 250,000B. Not a wad of papers showing every dime you have stashed about the world.

Random drug test and/or alcohol test

Anyone that shows up smelling of alcohol will be sent away

Anyone providing fraudulent docs - persona non-grata 5 years

*Anyone caught working illegally spends a year in jail

I honestly believe I have the issue more or less under control. I think I understand what will keep the red ink out of my passport. It's worked so far.

Did you wai the official? This is a wind-up right? "My" official very well might have been a Lao national and def 20 yrs my junior.

but he is a karacharn Thai.

[zeusbheld]

We used an agent who took us up to the window to hand in our applications and that was it. He delivered the passports to us the next day at our hotel. After what happened today, I'm pretty sure these agents do not hold any sway regarding the application process. They merely jump queue to save waiting time. They also have to pick the passports up the next day just as all other applicants do.

Tropo, sorry to hear about your gf's visa difficulty. i've gone to vientiane many times for TVs (last one about six months ago, then i had to get a real job as i was running out of money, as may tend to happen when you stay in Thailand for years on tourist visas without working). the last time i went, there was an agent who met us at the gate of the (new) consulate and promised he could expedite our visas. as it happened, this was on a friday and we didn't take him up on it because we were intent on making the mistake of spending the weekend in vang vieng (what the hel_l are all those people who sit around watching "Friends" all night ON, anyway?).

point being, IF this guy could deliver on his promise (we never found out) THEN all agents are not created equal--the Vientiane consulate didn't offer same day TV service at the time (probably still don't). there may be some agents who can get results, so anyone who uses an agent and does not get a red stamp should probably post some info about the agent and the process.

[Yimmy]

Male, 30 years old. Swedish passport. Just back from Vientienne. Got my 4th double TR. No red stamp. I tried to submit extra documents (a bank statement), but they didn't except any additional papers. Saw Vietnamese and Philippinos that were denied visas, but I also meet four girls with Myanmar passports who got their 5th TR in a row and no red stamp.

Thanks for the report. Any idea why Burmese applicants find it so easy?

Do they work illegally for far less than Viets and Philippinos?

[tropo]

I had absolutely no way of explaining to anyone that I support her. I think the way of explaining under Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs Visa regulations is referred to as 'marriage'.

You just don't seem to understand. Marriage is irrelevant as far as tourist visas go. As I said ealier, there is no way to petition to anyone in the Vientiane Consulate.

The point I was making is that they are clamping down on SE Asians applying for tourist visas because they consider them as a high risk for working illegally.

There is no way to prove to anyone that you will not or don't need to work, or any way to prove that the chances of you working are small. The decision is based purely on nationality and your visa history.