Lady Fortune, Destiny's Daughter Etc

[bina]

ok lang. fiends, its time to split hairs or whatever....

i've had my worker haranguing me about his luck, or lack thereof when playing hi lo and cards this past month (his salary of course goes in to this his wife would kill him if she knew) so went to look up words:

in general look how many words there are for luck, fortune, destiny, fate:

khraw[h]Hnounluck, chance, fate, fortune, omen, planet

2.ฆาต khaatFnoundeath; fate; end

3.โฉลกchaL lohkLnounchance, fortune, luck, fate, opportunity

4.ชะตา chaH dtaaMnounfate, destiny, fortune, future, luck, lot

5.โชคชะตา chohkF chaH dtaaMnounfate, fortune, destiny

6.โชคลาภ chohkF laapFnounfortune, fate

7.พรหมเรขา phrohmM rehM khaaRnoun, phrase, formal, poetic, loanword, Pali[a Buddhist belief derived from Brahman idea] fate; destiny; the state of being preordained by fate or a divine power

8.เวรกรรม wehnM gamMnoun, phrase, loanword, Palikarma, a consequence of an action; fate, misfortune, retribution

วาสนา วาสนา waatF naaM [noun] good fortune due to past good deeds, luck, lot in life (why was this one not included in the list richard w.?)

are some more mundane, maybe this should be in buddhist section??

which ones are used in daily activity and which ones are reserved for use in intensive situations (as my friend in america says: วาสนา is what arranges whether we will meet again or not, etc....

borrowed from thai lang.com

[meadish_sweetball]

ok lang. fiends, its time to split hairs or whatever....

i've had my worker haranguing me about his luck, or lack thereof when playing hi lo and cards this past month (his salary of course goes in to this his wife would kill him if she knew) so went to look up words:

in general look how many words there are for luck, fortune, destiny, fate:

khraw[h]Hnounluck, chance, fate, fortune, omen, planet

2.ฆาต  khaatFnoundeath; fate; end

3.โฉลกchaL lohkLnounchance, fortune, luck, fate, opportunity

4.ชะตา  chaH dtaaMnounfate, destiny, fortune, future, luck, lot

5.โชคชะตา  chohkF chaH dtaaMnounfate, fortune, destiny

6.โชคลาภ  chohkF laapFnounfortune, fate

7.พรหมเรขา  phrohmM rehM khaaRnoun, phrase, formal, poetic, loanword, Pali[a Buddhist belief derived from Brahman idea] fate; destiny; the state of being preordained by fate or a divine power

8.เวรกรรม wehnM gamMnoun, phrase, loanword, Palikarma, a consequence of an action; fate, misfortune, retribution

วาสนา  วาสนา  waatF naaM [noun]  good fortune due to past good deeds, luck, lot in life  (why was this one not included in the list richard w.?)

are some more mundane, maybe this should be in buddhist section??

which ones are used in daily activity and which ones are reserved for use in intensive situations (as my friend in america says: วาสนา is what arranges whether we will meet again or not, etc....

borrowed from thai lang.com

โชค [F]chook is the everyday word for "luck". Observe that the double "oo" here does not sound like in either "food" or "wood", it indicates a long vowel sound - "choke" pronounced as by a Scotsman (NO vowel glide).

โชคร้าย [F]chook [H]raay - bad luck

โชคดี [F]chook [M]dii - good luck (also used as a parting phrase and occasionally used for "cheers" when forced by a farang to come up with a Thai alternative (Thais normally dont toast amongst themselves, they just go right ahead and drink)).

โชคชะตา [F]chook [H/M]cha[M]taa- compund word made up of the words for "fate, destiny" and "luck", meaning "fate" in the sense of "what the future has in store". I have also heard it used to replace either "chataa" or "chook". These compound words are often used to make the language sound more eloquent than just using the one word. "Decorative" expression.

As for the others I am not the right person to distinguish between them stylistically. I have seen [HS]khraw' used when it comes to astrology and similar contexts but I am not sure enough of the exact connotations. Maybe khun yoot is still around and can provide us some usage examples?

[Neeranam]

โชคร้าย [F]chook [H]raay - bad luck

I know this, but was wondering about the difference with [F]chook [F]mai [M] dee.?

I was told never to say [F]chook [F]mai [M] dee, as it was like kind of wishing bad luck in someone. I think this may be wrong advice if I knew the correct usage of it.

??

[sabaijai]

As Mead says, โชค is the most commonly used word for 'luck'. You also frequently hear, for 'good luck', ดวงดี -- literally 'good planet', with an astrological connotation.

ดวงดี is generally reserved for describing persons who have good luck in general, rather than momentary good luck, if I understand the differences correctly.

One of my Thai instructors noted that โชค itself derives from the same root as the Sanskrit 'yoga' (and English 'yoke'), with the meaning of 'conjunction' or coming together of planets or stars, astrologically speaking. Under 'yoga', the Monier Williams Sanskrit-English dictionary lists 'conjunction , lucky conjuncture La1t2y. VarBr2S. MBh. &c. ; a constellation , asterism' amongst other defintions.

Note that many English-speaking learners of Thai mistakenly try to use the Thai word กรรม ([M]kam) to mean 'fate' or 'karma'. While it comes directly from the Pali kamma or Sanskrit karma, in general Thai usage กรรม has a strongly negative connotation, meaning 'bad luck' or 'fruit of wrongdoing'.

[yoot]

เคราะห์khraw[h] mostly used when it comes to astrology and with negative connotation. Sometimes it's used when there is something happen to someone and it's thought that because of fate or luck.

E.g. วันนี้เกือบขับรถไปชนมอเตอร์ไซด์ เคราะห์(โชค,ดวง)ดีที่หลบทัน

ช่วงนี้หมอดูบอกว่าจะมีเคราะห์ สงสัยต้องไปสะเดาะเคราะห์เสียหน่อย

สะเดาะเคราะห์ means to get rid of bad luck by sprinkling holy water or making the merit.

โชค , ดวง Both are used in the same meaning as good luck.

For gamblers, they often say มีโชค or ดวงมา means having good luck . And ไม่มีโชค or ดวงตก or ไม่มีดวง for having bad luck.

โชคชะตา,ดวงชะตา means destiny used when it comes to astrology.

E.g. รับตรวจดูดวงชะตา or รับตรวจดูโชคชะตา This is on the advertisement of a fortune teller.

ชะตา,โฉลก used in general speaking when talking about someone or something which has some characters you feel like at first sight.

E.g.ผมรู้สึกถูกชะตา(โฉลก)กับผู้หญิงคนนั้นจังI feel like this girl at first sight.(It doesn't mean that you want her.She may look like your sister or someone you love. Something like this)

ฉันรู้สึกถูกชะตา(โฉลก)กับบ้านหลังนี้จังI feel like this house.(You may think that if you live in this house you will have good luck. Or you feel want to live in this house)

ผมรู้สึกถูกชะตา(โฉลก)กับบริษัทนี้จังI feel this firm is my fortunate.(You may deal business with this firm and everything is running well. You gain a lot with the deal.)

ฆาต used for talking about death.

E.g. ถ้าดวงยังไม่ถึงฆาต ทำยังไงก็ไม่ตายหรอก

These are just some usage examples. Some words still have other usages. Be back to continue later.

Edited March 23, 2005 by yoot

[bannork]

As Mead says, โชค is the most commonly used word for 'luck'. You also frequently hear, for 'good luck', ดวงดี -- literally 'good planet', with an astrological connotation. 

ดวงดี is generally reserved for describing persons who have good luck in general, rather than momentary good luck, if I understand the differences correctly.

One of my Thai instructors noted that โชค itself derives from the same root as the Sanskrit 'yoga' (and English 'yoke'), with the meaning of 'conjunction' or coming together of planets or stars, astrologically speaking. Under 'yoga', the Monier Williams Sanskrit-English dictionary lists 'conjunction , lucky conjuncture La1t2y. VarBr2S. MBh. &c. ; a constellation , asterism' amongst other defintions.

Note that many English-speaking learners of Thai mistakenly try to use the Thai word กรรม ([M]kam) to mean 'fate' or 'karma'. While it comes directly from the Pali kamma or Sanskrit karma, in general Thai usage กรรม has a strongly negative connotation, meaning 'bad luck' or 'fruit of wrongdoing'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

However if we use ชะตากรรม is it true we can use it in both a negative and positive sense? Perhaps the word in English has to change as 'fate' has only a negative sense whilst 'destiny' could be good or bad.

bannork.

[snowleopard]

yoot Posted 2005-03-24 01:36:20

I feel like this girl at first sight.(It doesn't mean that you want her.

That’s so funny!

So this forum is your forum to come out of the closet.

ขอให้โชคดีนะครับ คุณหญิงยุทธ์ ณ ไทยวีซ่า.com

[yoot]

โอ๊ะ โอ๋ ใครนะปล่อยหมาขี้เรื้อนหนังกลับตัวลายจุด ๆ ขาว ๆ มาเพ่นพ่านแถวนี้หนอ

ทุกท่านโปรดทราบ ขณะนี้มีหมาอยู่ตัวเพ่นพ่านอยู่ในฟอรั่มนี้ เที่ยวเห่าชาวบ้านไม่เลือก แต่พยายามบอกกับคนว่า เป็นหมาที่เห่าแต่ไม่กัด ยังไงก็สงสาร อย่าไปเตะปากหมาปากเปราะตัวนี้นะ เดี๋ยวมันก็สูญพันธุ์ไปเองแหละ

Sorry everyone..except... (หมาเห่าแต่ไม่กัด .. Is this the meaning of snowleopard?)

Edited April 14, 2005 by yoot

[snowleopard]

โอ๊ะ โอ๋ ใครนะปล่อยหมาขี้เรื้อนหนังกลับตัวลายจุด ๆ ขาว ๆ มาเพ่นพ่านแถวนี้หนอ 

ทุกท่านโปรดทราบ ขณะนี้มีหมาอยู่ตัวเพ่นพ่านอยู่ในฟอรั่มนี้ เที่ยวเห่าชาวบ้านไม่เลือก แต่พยายามบอกกับคนว่า  เป็นหมาที่เห่าแต่ไม่กัด  ยังไงก็สงสาร อย่าไปเตะปากหมาปากเปราะตัวนี้นะ  เดี๋ยวมันก็สูญพันธุ์ไปเองแหละ   

Sorry everyone..except...  (หมาเห่าแต่ไม่กัด  .. Is this the meaning of snowleopard?) 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(หมาเห่าแต่ไม่กัด  .. Is this the meaning of snowleopard?)

ไม่ใช่... ซึ่งอ้างถึงเธอเองแหละ

เดี๋ยวมันก็สูญพันธุ์ไปเอง

Don't get your hopes up too high now little pup!

Cyberspace is the new realm where this "Panthera Pardus Orientalis" has adapted well and thrives.

In this habitat, I first stalk my prey and then wantonly slay it at will... for mere pleasure.

The easiest quarry around is the domesticated species "Canis Familiaris",from which you have been bred.

That flesh is of inferior quality though_and thus,spurned as food by finicky feline consumers as myself_so it'll be promptly donated to the hungry gourmets of Sakhon Nakhon in a merit-making ceremony.

Theirs is a real "dog-eat-dog" world so you'd better stay away.

[snowleopard]

yoot Posted 2005-03-24 01:36:20

I feel like this girl at first sight.(It doesn't mean that you want her.

That’s so funny!

So this forum is your forum to come out of the closet.

ขอให้โชคดีนะครับ คุณหญิงยุทธ์ ณ ไทยวีซ่า.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's a fitting cyber-moniker to describe your dual cross-gender personas,which also harmonizes with the title of this thread.

"Misfortune" it is!

"Misfortunate Yoot"="Miss Fortune"!

[bannork]

yoot Posted 2005-03-24 01:36:20

I feel like this girl at first sight.(It doesn't mean that you want her.

That’s so funny!

So this forum is your forum to come out of the closet.

ขอให้โชคดีนะครับ คุณหญิงยุทธ์ ณ ไทยวีซ่า.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's a fitting cyber-moniker to describe your dual cross-gender personas,which also harmonizes with the title of this thread.

"Misfortune" it is!

"Misfortunate Yoot"="Miss Fortune"!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you try to make fun of Yoot's mistakes in English, Snowleopard; jealousy and envy of his Thai are no doubt your driving forces. This forum is for learning Thai, not for picking holes in members' misuse of the English language, a crime you yourself are guilty of: I remember your use of 'a fame', apart from asking Meadish what 'sassy' meant. Plus your wholesale lifting of out-of-date Chinese- English-Thai idioms and poor translations. I thought you had disappeared from this forum after the hiding you got on occasions, you should return in a more constructive frame of mind; we're in Thailand, a country where people believe in getting along, being pleasant, offering helpful advice, generally this forum adheres to those standards.

bannork.

[snowleopard]

bannork Posted Yesterday, 2005-04-20 21:30:22

I remember

Your memory doesn't serve you very well BarnOwl and your English could be better too.

You're also projecting some of your feelings onto me,but that's another story.

You might learn something from the following if you can remember it...

Human memory does not operate as if it were a videotape camera. We do not simply record some event in our memory and then later retreive an unblemished recollection of what happened.

Human memory is much more fragile, suggestible, and prone to distortion and decay than we typically realize. As a result, mistaken eyewitness testimony rarely involves outright lies; instead, it usually corresponds to commonly occurring distortions in memory functioning.

Memory consists of three stages: (1) storage, (2) retention, and (3) recall. Storage factors can impede memory accuracy when we find ourselves unable to recall information from our memory because it was never stored there.

Forgetting a detail demonstrates that when we experience some event, our brain makes an instaneous decision whether to store information related to that event - or simply disregard it. The decision to store or disregard corresponds to how we evaluate the event - something worth remembering or merely a trivial circumstance?

The influences of the retention stage can corrode memory via three factors: (1) passage of time, (2) frequency and length of exposure, and (3) new information. Surprisingly enough, memory not only fades away with the passage of time - it also grows and expands.

What fades from memory over time is the actual experience of an event. Consequently, each time we recall some event we must reconstruct it - asking ourselves what happened and how it transpired - and with each reconstruction our memory can change. Therefore memory recall, or the reconstruction of some event, responds primarily to our sense of what is plausible. We actually recall bits and pieces of information and fill in the gaps with inferences or "educated guesses."

After witnessing an event, we are sometimes exposed to new information that can actually change our memory. What is known as the "post-event information effect" often transpires as a result of our dialogues with other people. For example, an eye-witness to some event frequently discusses with others what they saw. In the aftermath of some event, the eyewitness and others may speculate as to exactly what happened, the sequence in which it occured, and the degree to which various participants were involved. Rather than facilitate reproductive memory - the accurate reproduction of some past event, an eyewitness' dialogues with other people create reconstructive memory - a reconstruction of the past which may be quite inaccurate because it responds more to considerations of plausibility than fact. Therefore, people can reconstruct inaccurate memories after witnessing some event as a result of discussing that event with other people.

Now go back and read all posts objectively.

Cheers,

Snowleopard

[meadish_sweetball]

Snowie, just give it a rest, ok?

[bannork]

bannork Posted Yesterday, 2005-04-20 21:30:22

I remember

Your memory doesn't serve you very well BarnOwl and your English could be better too.

You're also projecting some of your feelings onto me,but that's another story.

You might learn something from the following if you can remember it...

Human memory does not operate as if it were a videotape camera. We do not simply record some event in our memory and then later retreive an unblemished recollection of what happened.

Human memory is much more fragile, suggestible, and prone to distortion and decay than we typically realize. As a result, mistaken eyewitness testimony rarely involves outright lies; instead, it usually corresponds to commonly occurring distortions in memory functioning.

Memory consists of three stages: (1) storage, (2) retention, and (3) recall. Storage factors can impede memory accuracy when we find ourselves unable to recall information from our memory because it was never stored there.

Forgetting a detail demonstrates that when we experience some event, our brain makes an instaneous decision whether to store information related to that event - or simply disregard it. The decision to store or disregard corresponds to how we evaluate the event - something worth remembering or merely a trivial circumstance?

The influences of the retention stage can corrode memory via three factors: (1) passage of time, (2) frequency and length of exposure, and (3) new information. Surprisingly enough, memory not only fades away with the passage of time - it also grows and expands.

What fades from memory over time is the actual experience of an event. Consequently, each time we recall some event we must reconstruct it - asking ourselves what happened and how it transpired - and with each reconstruction our memory can change. Therefore memory recall, or the reconstruction of some event, responds primarily to our sense of what is plausible. We actually recall bits and pieces of information and fill in the gaps with inferences or "educated guesses."

After witnessing an event, we are sometimes exposed to new information that can actually change our memory. What is known as the "post-event information effect" often transpires as a result of our dialogues with other people. For example, an eye-witness to some event frequently discusses with others what they saw. In the aftermath of some event, the eyewitness and others may speculate as to exactly what happened, the sequence in which it occured, and the degree to which various participants were involved. Rather than facilitate reproductive memory - the accurate reproduction of some past event, an eyewitness' dialogues with other people create reconstructive memory - a reconstruction of the past which may be quite inaccurate because it responds more to considerations of plausibility than fact. Therefore, people can reconstruct inaccurate memories after witnessing some event as a result of discussing that event with other people.

Now go back and read all posts objectively.

Cheers,

Snowleopard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Start at page3 of 'Thai Sayings', it's all there,sequences, eyewitnesses, discussions; not too much in the way of events admittedly,but an accurate reconstruction of contributions.

[bina]

back on subject ,

i once heard a word: wassana ?? cant find in dictionary, maybe not looking properly

used as in: if buddha wants us to be together than we will, it is our : "wassana' (quoting a friend that couldnt explain what 'wassana' was)

which is why i oncent sure which words fit which things...

perhaps the english equivalents arent really since they carry a lot of cultural weight behind the meaning, as yoot pointed out about the karma word....

[bannork]

back on subject ,

i once heard a word: wassana  ?? cant find in dictionary, maybe not looking properly

used as in: if buddha wants us to be together than we will, it is our : "wassana'  (quoting a friend that couldnt explain what 'wassana' was)

which is why i oncent sure which words fit which things...

perhaps the english equivalents arent really since they carry a lot of cultural weight behind the meaning, as yoot pointed out about the karma word....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

วาสนา, destiny could be a fair translation, it was their destiny to meet and live together happily.You're right in the above meaning, bina.