Us Visit Will Boost Thailand's Image: Pm

[Jingthing]

I don't think my post was a flame but rather just a pithy completely on topic commentary. The mods can decide. I have also PMed my friend Mr. Rumfoord to suggest that in future he report posts he thinks are in violation rather than try to stir it up in public.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Yes, Jing beat me too it.

Hated Buchanan always, still do,

but Bill Safire at least had some real class,

even if I didn't agree all the time.

OK, this weird.

Bill Safire just died!

RIP Bill Safire.

[sbk]

Lets drop the personal attacks and derogatory commentary. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

A reminder of the pertinent forum rules here, shall I?

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) To respect fellow members.

4) Not to flame fellow members.

Flaming will not be tolerated. 'Flaming' is defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, to launch personal attacks, to insult, or to be hateful towards other members. This includes useless criticism, name-calling, swearing and any other comments meant to incite anger.

5) Not to post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.

Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

And no, if you disagree with someone's political opinion, that does not make it a flame.

[Rumfoord]

PM Abhisit gave an interview to CNBC after ringing NYSE closing bell.

[caf]

You were either very close to him or have exceptional hearing.

He was and he does, if you must know.

And Johnson had a HUGE Texas style voice.

Abhisit isn't putting a brave face on he is putting the best possible face on it.

That's part of his job. No doubt Obama knows every thing happening here that matters,

and saw that the obnoxious crap as nothing he needs discuss in depth, since that isn't

the focus of this meeting. Stay on point, move things forward and see that ASEAN is

in the loop and on the same page.

Animatic, people who are that close to power do not have to brag about it.

Obama and other western leaders are being diplomatic about thailand. The fact is they have to pussy foot around farang suicides, jetski scams, airport extortions. But they may not always feel so inclined.

[Rumfoord]

wasn't it the Thai Embassy guy in Washington who got fired

for not getting Thaksin enough of an Official Fanfare on his Washington visit?

Side door, no red carpet, one photo op wit W. and Thaksin looking fair to looney:

like those bobbing head ducks into a water cup.... rather apropos actually.

I am quite sure Thaksin was subject to a multi-page report showing his shenanigans in stark relief.

What I meant to say of course was an official at the Thai Embassy in Washington. Thaksin, with his delusions of grandeur, wanted the whole nine yards of pomp and ceremony.

Yes of course all countries have protocols concerning visiting foreign dignitaries. Some posts seemed to indicate an unawareness of the fact or uncertainties regarding Thaksin's visits to the US.

The US Government exceptionally ignored its protocols when Thaksin visited.

In the instance of the king, the US Government always rendered full respect and all honors to include a parade in Washington DC.

can anyone of you back up and substatiate those stories.

who got fired? when was it?

something more about the day when the US govm ignored the protocols for Thaksin visit(s)?

and i think you overvalue the handshake of Abhisit with Obama. that means not much. and you overvalue Abhisit and overvalue the President of the United States.

[Plus]

The fact is they have to pussy foot around farang suicides, jetski scams, airport extortions.

I don't think Obama ever thinks about that.

[animatic]

I don't think my post was a flame but rather just a pithy completely on topic commentary. The mods can decide. I have also PMed my friend Mr. Rumfoord to suggest that in future he report posts he thinks are in violation rather than try to stir it up in public.

Actually the post calling it a flame fit the definition so much better...

I love unintentional irony.

Jing there was nothing flamish at all in your post.

It could only be called trollish by someone with a diametrically opposed opinion

and one likely obsessively held.

This was just distraction from the point at hand; misdirection and nothing more.

Edited September 29, 2009 by animatic

[animatic]

You were either very close to him or have exceptional hearing.

He was and he does, if you must know.

And Johnson had a HUGE Texas style voice.

Abhisit isn't putting a brave face on he is putting the best possible face on it.

That's part of his job. No doubt Obama knows every thing happening here that matters,

and saw that the obnoxious crap as nothing he needs discuss in depth, since that isn't

the focus of this meeting. Stay on point, move things forward and see that ASEAN is

in the loop and on the same page.

Animatic, people who are that close to power do not have to brag about it.

Obama and other western leaders are being diplomatic about thailand. The fact is they have to pussy foot around farang suicides, jetski scams, airport extortions. But they may not always feel so inclined.

Caf, I know Publicus, face to face personally,

and have read his writings going back 35 years.

I also know several big wigs he was around, and know his connection.

If he says he was there, he was.

[cdnvic]

One post was deleted that discussed the Monarchy in a political context. This violates Thai law and forum rules. Please be very careful when posting on Royal matters.

[justanothercybertosser]

Abhisit's fantastic speech about a fanciful Thailand

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is as popular abroad as he is disconnected to the masses of Thai voters at home.

While his good looks, English-language eloquence, masterly grasp of issues, personal integrity and gentlemanly demeanour appeal to foreign audiences, he is regularly pelted with bottles and shoes when he travels around the country outside Bangkok with a security detail provided by the army's 21st Infantry Regiment.

Farang investors generally hope the best for him. Farmers in the North and Northeast want to see the back of him.

Such is the odd dichotomy for which he stands. It mirrors Thailand 's larger and deeper political polarisation.

Mr Abhisit appears a lost creature imprisoned by his patrician past, unable to face up to Thailand 's future needs and expectations.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...nciful-thailand

[Plus]

Bottle throwers are a small and annoying minority, and there were reports that it's the same group that just follows him everywhere.

The public opposition to Abhisit is grossly overstated.

Just another load of nonsense from Thitinan.

[justanothercybertosser]

Bottle throwers are a small and annoying minority, and there were reports that it's the same group that just follows him everywhere.

The public opposition to Abhisit is grossly overstated.

Just another load of nonsense from Thitinan.

Of course - an internationally respected analyst writes nonsense because he doesn't agree with Plus, an anonymous poster on ThaiVisa...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thitinan_Pongsudhirak

http://www.insightbureau.com/ThitinanPongsudhirak.html

[Insight]

Bottle throwers are a small and annoying minority, and there were reports that it's the same group that just follows him everywhere.

The public opposition to Abhisit is grossly overstated.

Just another load of nonsense from Thitinan.

Of course - an internationally respected analyst writes nonsense because he doesn't agree with Plus, an anonymous poster on ThaiVisa...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thitinan_Pongsudhirak

http://www.insightbureau.com/ThitinanPongsudhirak.html

I thought the tone of the article was quite strange given recent news, but then that's just a tiny +1 to the anonymous nobody's whose opinion deserves nothing more than belittling by those that know much better than us.

[Plus]

internationally respected analyst

He's the second only to probably Giles in getting quoted in foreign media, and when Giles got in the local news, most people went "Giles who?"

More of a testament to the poor international coverage of Thai politics than to Thitinan's credibility.

[justanothercybertosser]

Bottle throwers are a small and annoying minority, and there were reports that it's the same group that just follows him everywhere.

The public opposition to Abhisit is grossly overstated.

Just another load of nonsense from Thitinan.

Of course - an internationally respected analyst writes nonsense because he doesn't agree with Plus, an anonymous poster on ThaiVisa...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thitinan_Pongsudhirak

http://www.insightbureau.com/ThitinanPongsudhirak.html

I thought the tone of the article was quite strange given recent news, but then that's just a tiny +1 to the anonymous nobody's whose opinion deserves nothing more than belittling by those that know much better than us.

If one has to summarily dismiss Thitinan's views as "nonsense", than it only deserves belittling at most.

If the article sounds strange to you, then you pay far too much attention on what is in the news, and not enough on analyzes.

[justanothercybertosser]

internationally respected analyst

He's the second only to probably Giles in getting quoted in foreign media, and when Giles got in the local news, most people went "Giles who?"

More of a testament to the poor international coverage of Thai politics than to Thitinan's credibility.

There is a slight difference between Giles and Thitinan. Just read the bios and it should be obvious.

[hammered]

Abhisit's fantastic speech about a fanciful Thailand

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is as popular abroad as he is disconnected to the masses of Thai voters at home.

While his good looks, English-language eloquence, masterly grasp of issues, personal integrity and gentlemanly demeanour appeal to foreign audiences, he is regularly pelted with bottles and shoes when he travels around the country outside Bangkok with a security detail provided by the army's 21st Infantry Regiment.

Farang investors generally hope the best for him. Farmers in the North and Northeast want to see the back of him.

Such is the odd dichotomy for which he stands. It mirrors Thailand 's larger and deeper political polarisation.

Mr Abhisit appears a lost creature imprisoned by his patrician past, unable to face up to Thailand 's future needs and expectations.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...nciful-thailand

Interesting from Thitinan who has previosuly iirc hoped for good things and something different from Abhisit and seemingly form the later remarks still does hole dout a little hope.

Abhisit is now getting attacked more and more by those who hoped he would be different or who pinned hopes on him. It seems Abhisit finds it increasingly hard to please anyone although he still to some extent gets a pass from groups who see him in a difficult position. With time though I feel that will evaporate.

The reality is that he has agreements with the military and very traditional polticians and is extremely limited in what he can do, so he wont be able to please those who expect of him. Of course he will never please opponents too. To be in Newin's position is better. Newin is banned and behind the scenes and can just play the cards and people and watch as they rase and then inevitably fall. Abhisit and Thaksin are both in wealk positions compared to this right now. What we see is a return to times previous imho and with other events on the horizon the military certainly arent going to let anyone off the leash anytime soon and that includes PTP if they get voted back in if a sudden election comes up.

I do tend to find that since Thitinan has begun a more shall we say factory production of articles that the quality has decreased compared to when he produced few and was more known for his quotables. Then again the quality of work remains a subjective issue.

[jayboy]

.

The public opposition to Abhisit is grossly overstated.

One rather obvious way to find out, isn't there?

[justanothercybertosser]

The reality is that he has agreements with the military and very traditional polticians and is extremely limited in what he can do,

Yes, and Abhisit has maneuvered himself into this position by prematurely becoming PM through several Faustian deals. Abhisit has disappointed many by playing along with the games of PAD, military and Newin, instead of biding his time to become a popularly elected PM that can actually do some good instead of being a just face for foreigners.

[Jingthing]

.

The public opposition to Abhisit is grossly overstated.

One rather obvious way to find out, isn't there?

Are you suggesting I conduct another Thaivisa poll?

[hammered]

The reality is that he has agreements with the military and very traditional polticians and is extremely limited in what he can do,

Yes, and Abhisit has maneuvered himself into this position by prematurely becoming PM through several Faustian deals. Abhisit has disappointed many by playing along with the games of PAD, military and Newin, instead of biding his time to become a popularly elected PM that can actually do some good instead of being a just face for foreigners.

Abhisit is and will continue to pay the price for his actions. Maybe his motivatuions were even good. It doesnt matter though as he will soon reach the poitn of being too discredited or weak to be a future PM. Thaksin remains too divisve to come back. That all does however, raise the question of who is future PM material? There arent many names springing instantly to mind. Maybe we continue with weak proxy PM for power brokers for some time yet. I also dont know who woudl want to take the poison chalice of Thai PM anymore you end up discredited, reviled, possibly jailed and possibly with attempts on your life.

[Jingthing]

I agree its a thankless job but if you are implying that Thaksin's crimes were only being a PM with political enemies, that is a way too far stretch to be credible.

[hammered]

I agree its a thankless job but if you are implying that Thaksin's crimes were only being a PM with political enemies, that is a way too far stretch to be credible.

No his crimes are far worse than that. However, there are many who would have him back whatever the crimes were which is why I just state he is too divisive to come back. There are a lot of people who would support another murderous drug war or the "business of politcs in Thailand" part two. It doesnt matter if I find the idea abhorent. However, even among some of his supporters is a recognition that his return wont be an anwswer as he divides "the country" too much. It isnt about drug wars or such things.

[Plus]

Ok, how about this - Thitinan's views are rather odd by Thai standards. Nobody seems to be in agreement with him, except old Giles and possibly Nation's Prawit. Out of all divergent opinions on Thai politics he sticks out like a sore thumb, and so whatever he says must be taken with a grain of salt.

And most of it IS nonsense.

For example "income disparity which is the source of the polarisation between the countryside and Bangkok". It's just an old tired leftist cliche that doesn't hold any water. There's no polarization between people, there's no polarization between countryside and Bangkok (at best a couple of countryside regions), and the source of that polarization is not income disparity. And nowhere else income disparity is more obvious than in Bangkok itself.

[Plus]

Abhisit is and will continue to pay the price for his actions. Maybe his motivatuions were even good. It doesnt matter though as he will soon reach the poitn of being too discredited or weak to be a future PM. Thaksin remains too divisve to come back. That all does however, raise the question of who is future PM material? There arent many names springing instantly to mind. Maybe we continue with weak proxy PM for power brokers for some time yet. I also dont know who woudl want to take the poison chalice of Thai PM anymore you end up discredited, reviled, possibly jailed and possibly with attempts on your life.

Abhisit takes his job seriously and works for the people, selflessly. Surely he would piss off all kinds of vested interests and they might even push him back for a while, but you can't fool all the people all the time. There's absolutely no one even close to him if it comes to run off kind of elections. Parliamentary system is different, of course, but Democrats only rivals in the House are PTP, and they suck. I expect they'd be totally trashed in party list polls come the next election and would rely on weak coalition of Thailand thug gallery that will be praying for PAD to come and kick it out so they can blame it on someone else.

[caf]

PM Abhisit gave an interview to CNBC after ringing NYSE closing bell.

interesting though he wasnt asked many searching questions. did the interviewer not know how protectionist thailand is with her high tariffs.

moodays today repeated their negative stance on thailand ( made aerlier in december)

obviously they werent swayed either but as jing said he's only doing his job.

[hammered]

Abhisit is and will continue to pay the price for his actions. Maybe his motivatuions were even good. It doesnt matter though as he will soon reach the poitn of being too discredited or weak to be a future PM. Thaksin remains too divisve to come back. That all does however, raise the question of who is future PM material? There arent many names springing instantly to mind. Maybe we continue with weak proxy PM for power brokers for some time yet. I also dont know who woudl want to take the poison chalice of Thai PM anymore you end up discredited, reviled, possibly jailed and possibly with attempts on your life.

Abhisit takes his job seriously and works for the people, selflessly. Surely he would piss off all kinds of vested interests and they might even push him back for a while, but you can't fool all the people all the time. There's absolutely no one even close to him if it comes to run off kind of elections. Parliamentary system is different, of course, but Democrats only rivals in the House are PTP, and they suck. I expect they'd be totally trashed in party list polls come the next election and would rely on weak coalition of Thailand thug gallery that will be praying for PAD to come and kick it out so they can blame it on someone else.

I dont know how th enext elections will go. It depends on who deserts and joins with who to some extent. PTP and Dems will be big but BJT could syphon off some PTP and suck in some other party MPs maybe even a few Dems so they could be big too. It would be nice to see the back of Snoh and the Banharn clan but they will probably still be there doign their little deals.

The PM thing looks very bleak. I doubt Abhisit will get it again. He may even struggle in a Dem coalition government. What then Chuan again? Or the leader of a minor party? What if PTP get in surely they wont put Chalerm up but who - drag Chavalit out of the OAPs home? Guess it also depends on whether we get an amnesty of some sorts then we see a couple more possibilites although tbh not that many. Or will we go back to the days of general PMs and no elections?

[Publicus]

Bottle throwers are a small and annoying minority, and there were reports that it's the same group that just follows him everywhere.

The public opposition to Abhisit is grossly overstated.

Just another load of nonsense from Thitinan.

Of course - an internationally respected analyst writes nonsense because he doesn't agree with Plus, an anonymous poster on ThaiVisa...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thitinan_Pongsudhirak

http://www.insightbureau.com/ThitinanPongsudhirak.html

I thought the tone of the article was quite strange given recent news, but then that's just a tiny +1 to the anonymous nobody's whose opinion deserves nothing more than belittling by those that know much better than us.

If one has to summarily dismiss Thitinan's views as "nonsense", than it only deserves belittling at most.

If the article sounds strange to you, then you pay far too much attention on what is in the news, and not enough on analyzes.

Thitinan is rather long on description, discussion and narration while falling awfully short on analysis.

The central reason for Thitinan's failure to produce a constructive opinion piece is that Thitinan has become both victim and (yet) another symptom of Thailand's political crankiness/nastiness of recent years. Because Thitinan is an academic rather than a shirt color Thitinan has succumbed to crankiness rather than become a person of action, whether it be an airport occupier or a street thug (to each his/her own!) or a politician.

As Thitinan's conclusion calls for "power to the people" he offers nothing more than the vague and cliched rhetoric of the 1960s USA or perhaps 1920s UK. Wm. Hague has such awesome abilities and intellect that outside of a group of Torries he couldn't outpoll Susan Boyle. Three years ago everyone had told Obama he'd need to wait until 2016.

In his ill temper Thitinan leaves us with too many unanswered questions. However, one unanswered question is more than enuff: Whom would Thitinan prefer as PM? We know it's not Abhisit. Why is it not Abhisit? Because Abhisit is the current PM.

All Thitinan gives us is more cannibalism.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Publicus

[Plus]

Hammered, constituencies might indeed go the way you describe, but in party list polls Democrats will clearly dominate, and so whatever non-Democrat govt the House manages to cobble up together will not enjoy a lot of support. Remember, Abhisit is the last chance to prove that "old" politics can still work. They'll be fastening their own demise if they shut him out. Don't forget that a quarter of the population supports new politics, even without any positive campaigns. This support would grow exponentially if we get Chalerm-Newin coalition instead of Abhisit.