Bangkok Post Bans Thaivisa From Using Its Content

[tmark]

Isn't this entire thread totally ironic?

Here we are in "Plagiarism Central", Thailand.The last 4 "GOVERNMENT" schools I have worked at have illegal copies of MS XP Windows on every computer as well as pirated copies of MS Office and a host of other programs. They ALL photocopy entire textbooks and staple them up all nice and neat.

I was in a "Police Station" a few months ago making some inquiries and noticed a computer there with the old "This may be an illegal copy of Windows" or whatever it says down on the bottom right of the screen.Probably the same deal EVERYWHERE here.

All a bit of a joke really.

[webfact]

every website needs a TOS (Terms of Service) and a "privacy" policy statement by means of international rules.

Websites who don't have that can have their domain revoked by domain registrar's head body when reported.

Google doesn't index sites if their bots can't find that.

Absolute rubbish. Totally wrong and uhmmmm, oh yeah, incorrect.

I'm not going to remove this post. However I have comments in red removed and the quote restored to its original.

Please read this forum rule:

29. To not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[d0om4gloom]

And no offence intended because you are not alone, but that is exactly why Post Publishing, and other publishers, are likely to increasingly adopt measure to protect their copyright. Because you're not visiting their website they are missing out on possible advertising revenues - at the expense of this website which gains.

In other words, Thai Visa is stealing "some" traffic from BKK Post.

Be fair, people.

Actually I believe that news is public domain there there is no copyright on it. Thats why news feeds work. What exactly a newspaper can copyright i dont know - maybe the article ? If they are posting something saying 'this is news' how can that be subject to copyright ?

[steve28]

I wiuld have thought bangkok post would be happy at the free advertismnet for their paper. maybe not

[Bard]

Bangkok Post bans Thaivisa from using its content

BANGKOK (thaivisa.com): -- The Publisher of Bangkok Post, Post Publishing PCL, has informed Thaivisa.com that they have joined the "Society for Online News Providers, (SONP)", and their policy is apparently that RSS feeds are the only way for other web sites to republish news articles.

Given their request that no content be published on ThaiVisa unless as an RSS feed, which is an automatic feed with no commentary, Bangkok Post articles can no longer be published in any ThaiVisa forums from now on since the forums are not an RSS feed.

"Thaivisa must respect Bangkok Post's new policy, but we are sort of sad to see them go away. We have a very different vision than the Bangkok Post about the future of community networking", says Barry Main, marketing director of ThaiVisa.com.

"But no worries, we have The Nation and The Phuket Gazette already on board, and we are soon hooking up with other local news sources. Our goal is to serve our members with a mixed and balanced news feed. Bangkok Post has changed this balance, at least for now", says Barry Main.

Avoid content from Bangkok Post

For legal reasons, and to protect the website and its members, Thaivisa.com must comply with this new policy and urge all members to avoid all Bangkok Post content, advising its members to find alternative content instead.

Members quoting or posting Bangkok Post content will be warned by our moderating team, and the post will be deleted without warning.

Bangkok Post's web traffic is in sharp decline according to Google Trends.

The ban on Bangkok Post articles is in effect immediately.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-10-02

Well this is well deserved to be honest, the monopolist policy and total fear of letting any other link in Thai Visa or use Thai Visa content which has been so far guarded jealously by the moderators I have to say this is well deserved. You cannot have and have and have and give nothing back, well done Bangkok Post.

So far Thai Visa has so many rules that Microsoft seems to be sharing in comparison, I find Bangkok post to be absolutely on the ball by banning. The more rules and protectionism one safeguard with the more you loose on the long run. But that is common knowledge so I think we all know that already.

[hustlehouse]

Same old,same old. Politics and their Muppets. No biggie anyway, who reads that crap which they call journalism in the BP?

Way to go George, let them suffer, I belive they were useless to you and the site .

[jfchandler]

OK... this is now page 8 of this thread...

I'm still waiting for some answer to the question TV member Opalhort posed on page 5.

Even if TV decides to honor the BKK Post's demand to cease reposting articles and/or excerpts of Post articles, does this new TV policy include banning the posting of LINKS to BKK Post articles on the Post's own web site....or that would still be allowed??????????????

I can't imagine the Post would have a problem with a link, since that would drive the traffic to their web site anyway....

But...it's not the Post deciding these things... It's the management of TV... which isn't saying much here lately...

[thaibkk]

the newspapers buy their news from agencies... they have to pay for it and hope to get some back with readers buying the newspaper of clicking on their ads...

then came a site that just copies the info from that official instance that has to pay to get information and get their income stolen or replaced with 10 of their own ads

how would you call this ? fair use ? does TV give a percentage of their huge advertising money ???

[tmark]

Same old,same old. Politics and their Muppets. No biggie anyway, who reads that crap which they call journalism in the BP?

Way to go George, let them suffer, I belive they were useless to you and the site .

 This is one reason why TV gives me a chuckle now and again. Many different kinds of people with assorted agendas. A lot of it involving applying tongues to others posteriors. To slightly misquote  a "famous American"

Forest Gump: Tv is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you will get

[george]

OK... this is now page 8 of this thread...

I'm still waiting for some answer to the question TV member Opalhort posed on page 5.

Even if TV decides to honor the BKK Post's demand to cease reposting articles and/or excerpts of Post articles, does this new TV policy include banning the posting of LINKS to BKK Post articles on the Post's own web site....or that would still be allowed??????????????

I can't imagine the Post would have a problem with a link, since that would drive the traffic to their web site anyway....

But...it's not the Post deciding these things... It's the management of TV... which isn't saying much here lately...

We are working on a policy statement. As soon I have all the facts I need, and got additional legal guidance, we'll publish the outcome.

Also, we are also communicating with Bangkok Post regarding RSS.

This process could take a few days, so please be patient.

In summary, for now: Please do not post any Bangkok Post content or links to their website.

Thanks for your understanding!

Cheers

[andy1308]

the newspapers buy their news from agencies... they have to pay for it and hope to get some back with readers buying the newspaper of clicking on their ads...

then came a site that just copies the info from that official instance that has to pay to get information and get their income stolen or replaced with 10 of their own ads

how would you call this ? fair use ? does TV give a percentage of their huge advertising money ???

Exactly! Content licensing and syndication is big business. There are more than 50 licensed Thai language editions of overseas magazines. If you think it's legal to wholly reproduce stories from other publishers you need to ask yourself why it's not happening all the time, and why those Thai publishers are paying substantial royalites to license that content?

[Meridian007]

I wonder how long TV is going to let us natter on before clearing up the questions being asked...

Same question here. Where has admin gone?

Why can't they clearly answer the questions that have been asked here?

I have a feeling that admin is quite happy with all the irrelevant posts since they mean more posts --> more hits --> more etc.etc....

If they answer the questions early the topic could die faster.

opalhort

Jai yen yen! I'm sure there hasn't been an official response yet because George is trying to find out where he stands legally. Give him a chance!

As I said when this SONP thing was first proposed, I think it's just a snap decision made by a bunch of suits who don't understand the internet. Once they see that enforcing silly rules like this will cost them readership, they'll relent. This is like the "crackdown" on i.p. transgressions from a couple of months ago, MBK/Silom/Sukhumwit all seem to be doing fine with their distribution of copied movies, I think that crackdown lasted about a week.

***Edit***

Oops, I just saw George's thread above about their policy statement. He explained it better than I could.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Meridian007

[PawyiLee]

Bangkok Post bans Thaivisa from using its content

BANGKOK (thaivisa.com): -- The Publisher of Bangkok Post, Post Publishing PCL, has informed Thaivisa.com that they have joined the "Society for Online News Providers, (SONP)", and their policy is apparently that RSS feeds are the only way for other web sites to republish news articles.

Given their request that no content be published on ThaiVisa unless as an RSS feed, which is an automatic feed with no commentary, Bangkok Post articles can no longer be published in any ThaiVisa forums from now on since the forums are not an RSS feed.

"Thaivisa must respect Bangkok Post's new policy, but we are sort of sad to see them go away. We have a very different vision than the Bangkok Post about the future of community networking", says Barry Main, marketing director of ThaiVisa.com.

"But no worries, we have The Nation and The Phuket Gazette already on board, and we are soon hooking up with other local news sources. Our goal is to serve our members with a mixed and balanced news feed. Bangkok Post has changed this balance, at least for now", says Barry Main.

Avoid content from Bangkok Post

For legal reasons, and to protect the website and its members, Thaivisa.com must comply with this new policy and urge all members to avoid all Bangkok Post content, advising its members to find alternative content instead.

Members quoting or posting Bangkok Post content will be warned by our moderating team, and the post will be deleted without warning.

Bangkok Post's web traffic is in sharp decline according to Google Trends.

The ban on Bangkok Post articles is in effect immediately.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-10-02

I will remove Bangkok Post's RSS feed from my toolbar, to avoid temptation.

[thaibkk]

even google, not the smallest player of the world, had to stop stealing whole news articles from several newspapers in my home country

or had to pay several thousands of euros for each infringement ...

yes, google and their hugue money and lawyers had to back off...

so unless TV comes up with a nice bundle of cash as return on investment for the newspapers, i guess it is GAME OVER

10 pages x 8 ads = 80 ads viewed ...

x thousans of members ...

= BIIIIIIIIIIIIG MONEY

and i can know as i earn small money for small audiance ... compared to TV I guess...

[clausewitz]

I have seen no link to porno sites and spam sites enforced on web forums- but no links to a news site is maybe a first..anyone ever hear of that?

How about this for the future of political debates;

PLus: the courts convicted the cabinet of stealing money via the lottery scam>

Clausewitz: but a certain outlet that may or may not be in the Asian region said that the court said the lottery was good for the people.

Plus" you liar, prove it>

Claus: it is out there on the web.

Plus: sure, aha haha hah, you liar.

Much later..

Jasreeves:

Here is the quote, with a link.

2 minutes later.

Post removed and Jasreeves with a banned sign under his name.

Edited October 2, 2009 by clausewitz

[OxfordWill]

you could maybe grab the rss feed, create new posts from it ("The Bangkok Post Rss Feed Area"), and then link the reply now button to a new thread (either created if first user, or to reply to already created) in a separate forum (protected if you like) which would allow you to keep within the new terms of BP and also allow your users to comment on their articles.

this particular strategy was ruled acceptable by the japanese courts in a famous japan movie production house vs. small forum site case a year or so back (not that this is relevant beyond being interesting)

Edited October 2, 2009 by OxfordWill

[fiddlehead]

The politics of this dilemma probably started when TV banned PhuketWan because they signed a contract with their competition.

Now, a news agency is doing the same to them.

Tit for Tat.

TV started it IMO so no sense in crying about it.

I guess it's the way of the future: Sign on a news agency and ban everybody else!

[marquess]

Its a government vetted rag anyway. No such thing as a free press in Thailand. Theres always an angle and a price to be paid for free speach. Anyone who says otherwise is suffering from selfdillusion. Keep on dancing Thailand the edge of the cliff is still miles away. I HOPE.

Great Post there should be more like it!

[Grey11]

Avoid content from Bangkok Post

I've avoided buying the printed edition of BP for the past five years. Thumbs up for The Nation!

I live on the eastern side of Phuket and though The Bangkok Post is hard to find, The Nation is virtually impossible to find. The Phuket Gazette is a weekly newspaper. So if one wants to read a daily newspaper in English, one either buys The Bangkok Post are doesn't buy a newspaper. The Phuket Gazette is a great newspaper. But, like I said, it is a weekly newspaper.

[asiasurfer]

What happened to freedom of speech? If the Bangkok Post makes a comment in a public forum i.e. its newspaper, then why is that able to be commented/passed upon and censored here? They (BKK Post) made the statement publicly so why can't Thaivisa members pass comment on the article in a public forum? Or do we have to get premises, cigars and chesterfields with brandy balloons and make comment behind closed doors... how archaic!

The media is already censored in Thailand (heavily) so outlet's such as open discussion forums here give - in most cases - insight and understanding to what is being 'fed' to us by Bangkok Post! Disagree George. Nation or not, you are being pressured into submission. Needless to say - we will all stand behind your decision but many, unwillingly.

I think something is definitely wrong here and I strongly disagree with TV’s decision to comply with Bangkok Post’s new policy. TV, I think you should check what your legal situation is. It is not reasonable to ban news from any (credible) sources since this is one of the major reasons why many TV members come to this website: Freedom of speech and free exchange of information!!! This is even more important for many expats living in Thailand who want to obtain impartial information/news/advice.

My advice on TV would be to put freedom of speech before any commercial interests and to avoid the impression of bias. TV’s strongest point has always been impartiality. I wish it will stay that way. George, I hope you are going to make a wise decision…

[spongeman]

OK... this is now page 8 of this thread...

I'm still waiting for some answer to the question TV member Opalhort posed on page 5.

Even if TV decides to honor the BKK Post's demand to cease reposting articles and/or excerpts of Post articles, does this new TV policy include banning the posting of LINKS to BKK Post articles on the Post's own web site....or that would still be allowed??????????????

I can't imagine the Post would have a problem with a link, since that would drive the traffic to their web site anyway....

But...it's not the Post deciding these things... It's the management of TV... which isn't saying much here lately...

We are working on a policy statement. As soon I have all the facts I need, and got additional legal guidance, we'll publish the outcome.

Also, we are also communicating with Bangkok Post regarding RSS.

This process could take a few days, so please be patient.

In summary, for now: Please do not post any Bangkok Post content or links to their website.

Thanks for your understanding!

Cheers

Ah d'ont worry George the world will not come to an end over this. We will still keep reading ThaiVisa.

And Im a Bangkok Post man myself, always have been. However If they want reduced exposure thats their call.

[Crushdepth]

"Claiming Copyright" is one thing. Actually having taken out a copyright is another. Most sites fall into the former category. It's easy to put a "Copyright" in the footer. Most website scripts contain one which you can edit to include "your" name. Most of the time it's just a wank with no legal weight. I'm not saying that's the case with TV as I have no idea.

Copyright laws are country-specific, but they largely stem from the Berne Convention. Generally speaking, you don't need to explicitly claim copyright, it accrues to the author automatically. And contrary to some of the posts above, news stories *are* protected by copyright (the basic facts of a news event are public domain, but an original article written about a news event isn't).

I occasionally have problems with content from my work site being scraped by third parties and republished without consent. It upsets the authors when they find their work redistributed and it bugs me as the site maintainer that people don't respect the effort that goes into building and maintaining it.

The RSS feed sounds like a good solution to me, I don't know why people are bagging it. It should be pretty easy to feed the feed into a forum where people can legitimately comment or criticise under fair use. Thaivisa gets some content for free and presumably the Post will exercise some control over how much of each story they want to release for nothing and whether there's a link back in it or not. Thaivisa gets free access to some content and the Post gets a bit of traffic back in return? Isn't that a win for everyone?

PS: You guys who can't afford a 30 baht newspaper or who think clicking over to the Post site is a big deal need to get a job, or a life. It's free over there so what are you whining about?

Edited October 2, 2009 by Crushdepth

[marshbags]

It is a shame as we only get one set of opinions now, feed back / news wise.

marshbags

C'mon now. If you are serious and not just making noise just type "http://bangkokpost.com/" into the little address thingy at the top of your browser and get the "other" opinion.

I was thinking in open debate terminology.

I was thinking in debateble terms, one off setting the other on the actual threads as per usual ...before the latest censorship forbidding T.Visa from displaying B.Post publications / articles.

marshbags

[NamSod]

Please note that not only Thaivisa.com is affected. This applies to all websites that re-publishes Bangkok Post content.

Totally unenforceable in any country. Absolute wishful thinking by BKK Post. There is no such thing as borders on the internet or universal laws governing this type of content use. It's your choice to set the rules for Thaivisa, even though the site is hosted in Singapore, but no one, has the authority or the power to stop anyone from using anyone's content or linking to anyone if they so choose.

Sorry to hear that you have made this choice, but I know you are a peace maker and want to be professional.

[moskito]

Don't newspapers usually believe in freedom of speech?

LOL ....GOOD ONE :D

maybe 100 years ago in some countries, but for sure not anymore and for sure not in LOS

[Crushdepth]

Totally unenforceable in any country. Absolute wishful thinking by BKK Post. There is no such thing as borders on the internet or universal laws governing this type of content use. It's your choice to set the rules for Thaivisa, even though the site is hosted in Singapore, but no one, has the authority or the power to stop anyone from using anyone's content or linking to anyone if they so choose.

Wrong. The Thai legal system most certainly allows access to foreign websites to be blocked. The server may be in Singapore but a large chunk of the audience is in Thailand. Does this sound like a good option for a website called "Thaivisa" ?

And let me tell you, once you're blocked you can't get off that damned list. One of our work sites had to be relocated when the ICT Ministry decided to block some site that happened to be on the same shared hosting server as ours. And ours was a GOVERNMENT site.

And practicalities aside, don't you think breaking copyright law is kind of unethical?

[tmark]

Its a government vetted rag anyway. No such thing as a free press in Thailand. Theres always an angle and a price to be paid for free speach. Anyone who says otherwise is suffering from selfdillusion. Keep on dancing Thailand the edge of the cliff is still miles away. I HOPE.

Great Post there should be more like it!

Yep!, that's about the size of it. No free speech anywhere in this country with organized businesses, whether they be newspapers or forums. All of them terrified of their incomes being "disrupted" Gutless wonders if you ask me. Abraham Lincoln and his ilk would be rolling over in their graves. 

There are of course "non profit" organizations and forums where you are free to vent your spleen. You can even go out on the street and speak your mind. The "Red Shirts" don't seem to have too much of a problem with it.

[tmark]

It is a shame as we only get one set of opinions now, feed back / news wise.

marshbags

C'mon now. If you are serious and not just making noise just type "http://bangkokpost.com/" into the little address thingy at the top of your browser and get the "other" opinion.

I was thinking in open debate terminology.

I was thinking in debateble terms, one off setting the other on the actual threads as per usual ...before the latest censorship forbidding T.Visa from displaying B.Post publications / articles.

marshbags

OK, you have a point there. Fair enough. I agree.

[Crushdepth]

Its a government vetted rag anyway.

Actually, during the "Thaksin years" when Mr Blockhead started cracking down on the press, the Post started published a small statement from the constitution about free speech on the top left corner of the front page. So are they a 'government vetted rag'? Well I don't know, but I don't think they are any worse than any other paper in Thailand and they certainly seem to resist.

[NamSod]

Totally unenforceable in any country. Absolute wishful thinking by BKK Post. There is no such thing as borders on the internet or universal laws governing this type of content use. It's your choice to set the rules for Thaivisa, even though the site is hosted in Singapore, but no one, has the authority or the power to stop anyone from using anyone's content or linking to anyone if they so choose.

Wrong. The Thai legal system most certainly allows access to foreign websites to be blocked. The server may be in Singapore but a large chunk of the audience is in Thailand. Does this sound like a good option for a website called "Thaivisa" ?

I am very familiar with the Thai kingdom and it's ability to block sites and I think it prudent on the part of Thaivisa if it wishes to remain accessible in Thailand. That I am not in disagreement with. What I said was, no one can STOP anyone from posting other's content. They might block access to it in one area but that didn't stop the content from being used. Closing your eyes doesn't mean the issue has been solved, it just means that you and a few others can't see it anymore.