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Backpacker Murders: Father Pleads For Justice


george

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- Big name hospital kept the fetus in the womb more than 2 weeks after the due date.  The baby didn't make it.  The parents filed a lawsuit.  The hospital won. It was their fault, not ours.

- Politician's son got away on a murder case.  He's got money and Daddy's power.  It was a poor man fault, not his.

- This worthless thug shot and killed two British backpackers and possibly will get away with it.  It was their fault, not his.

In Thailand, there are three magic words: Money, Power, and Connection.

Golf

Austin, Texas:

- The police don't mind dining at our restaurant for free, even though "patronage" by police in exchange for police presence is typically considered unethical.

- At a relative's grocery, while the health inspector doesn't accept cash (yet) for minor infractions, the fire inspector sure as heck does (at his suggestion... and yes, they use the same plain white envelopes that they use here in the LOS).

- Many chiropractors readily collude with car accident "victims" to run up bills to be charged to the insurance company (of whoever ran into your car). Friend of the family clued us in when someone I ran into in my Mustang tried to pull the "take 3 months off from work and sue" scam on us and just happened to go to the friend's clinic. Sure, insurance would have covered it, but in the end everyone pays for this kind of crap.

- All through elementary school, my parents would give my teachers, kindergarten through 5th grade a $100-200 tea set for Christmas. Coincidentally, I was an all A student all the way.... and I don't think it was all because of my own ability. St. Stephen's Episcopal School... right there on the application is a blank for you to write in what you will donate to the school (and unofficially is one of the key determinants in you getting in). Wow, just like here in the LOS.... Wattana, RIS, the Triam Udoms, etc.

- Defraud your shareholders of millions and billions? Go to country club jail or get community service.

Still, a great place to live, just like the LOS.

:o

of course, the HUGE difference in these 2 posts are that all three of Golf's examples ended in DEATH, not merely a few dollars changing hands.

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It is about time this debate got back to the central issue:

Two young English tourists have been allegedly murdered by a member of the Thai police force.

For these young people’s sakes alone it is imperative that justice is done, and seen to be done.

For the sake of the integrity of the Thai Police justice must be done.

We who read this story have a duty to see it remains a central point on this forum, in the British and International press, until this matter is resolved.

Our choice is simple: do we support the Fat Cats and all that this implies throughout the Thai culture, or do we respectfully demand the justice these two young lives deserve?

The Lord Buddha forbad all killing and I am utterly amazed the authorities cannot see that the Karma from an incorrect resolution to this case, will be catastrophic for Thai culture.

We pray that wisdom will prevail and the LOS does not become another Burma.

Like to keep this one alive as i live in kan. I think its important it is not forgotten!

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Rule of thumb regarding whether or not justice will be done in a country. If you are not allowed to critisize the ruling elite then forget justice as it will only apply to certain members of society. This policeman will therefore not get what he deserves and the familys of the victims will not get justice. And it's as simple as that!

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It is about time this debate got back to the central issue:

Two young English tourists have been allegedly murdered by a member of the Thai police force.

For these young people’s sakes alone it is imperative that justice is done, and seen to be done.

For the sake of the integrity of the Thai Police justice must be done.

We who read this story have a duty to see it remains a central point on this forum, in the British and International press, until this matter is resolved.

Our choice is simple: do we support the Fat Cats and all that this implies throughout the Thai culture, or do we respectfully demand the justice these two young lives deserve?

The Lord Buddha forbad all killing and I am utterly amazed the authorities cannot see that the Karma from an incorrect resolution to this case, will be catastrophic for Thai culture.

We pray that wisdom will prevail and the LOS does not become another Burma.

Like to keep this one alive as i live in kan. I think its important it is not forgotten!

Rule of thumb regarding whether or not justice will be done in a country. If you are not allowed to critisize the ruling elite then forget justice as it will only apply to certain members of society. This policeman will therefore not get what he deserves and the familys of the victims will not get justice. And it's as simple as that!

Excellent posts. Sadly, I think both TMerton and Markee are right.

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of course, the HUGE difference in these 2 posts are that all three of Golf's examples ended in DEATH, not merely a few dollars changing hands.

Another difference is that my examples were first hand. If anyone wanted to find three examples of travesties of justice gleaned from the news, one could just as easily use google and simply change the name of the locale (for example: unarmed, murdered/shot/choked by police New York/Los Angeles, Chicago, Seattle, etc.). Then, follow the case timelines and choose only the cases where the offending party is acquitted. Finally, make a broad generalization on how it applies to the entire society or locale in question.

:D:o

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of course, the HUGE difference in these 2 posts are that all three of Golf's examples ended in DEATH, not merely a few dollars changing hands.

Another difference is that my examples were first hand. If anyone wanted to find three examples of travesties of justice gleaned from the news, one could just as easily use google and simply change the name of the locale (for example: unarmed, murdered/shot/choked by police New York/Los Angeles, Chicago, Seattle, etc.). Then, follow the case timelines and choose only the cases where the offending party is acquitted. Finally, make a broad generalization on how it applies to the entire society or locale in question.

:D:o

That's also why I say forget about other cases and generalisations.

For these two dead young person's sakes, concentrate on this case and ensure it remains in the public eye.

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of course, the HUGE difference in these 2 posts are that all three of Golf's examples ended in DEATH, not merely a few dollars changing hands.

Another difference is that my examples were first hand. If anyone wanted to find three examples of travesties of justice gleaned from the news, one could just as easily use google and simply change the name of the locale (for example: unarmed, murdered/shot/choked by police New York/Los Angeles, Chicago, Seattle, etc.). Then, follow the case timelines and choose only the cases where the offending party is acquitted. Finally, make a broad generalization on how it applies to the entire society or locale in question.

:D:o

Heng, just to let you know there are other countires in the world, not just USA and LoS, and yes there are injustices in them all, but in some more than others

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There was a brief piece about the trial on the ABC Asia Pacific News today. There were a few words from the Father of the young lady that was murdered.

It cut away to POS running through the court hallway so as not to be caught on the television camera. By all accounts he is now saying that it was not him, that it is a case of mistaken identity!!

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of course, the HUGE difference in these 2 posts are that all three of Golf's examples ended in DEATH, not merely a few dollars changing hands.

Another difference is that my examples were first hand. If anyone wanted to find three examples of travesties of justice gleaned from the news, one could just as easily use google and simply change the name of the locale (for example: unarmed, murdered/shot/choked by police New York/Los Angeles, Chicago, Seattle, etc.). Then, follow the case timelines and choose only the cases where the offending party is acquitted. Finally, make a broad generalization on how it applies to the entire society or locale in question.

:D:o

Nothing personal, Heng. I gave some examples cause I didn't want to make it a personal or emotional bias. But if you think I've never had first hand experience, please read the follwoing story. It's realated to the building that burnt down a few months ago in BKK and I posted my reply there. Here it is:

"...I still remember when I was 12. The building just stood next to my father shop was on fire. It was 11:00 pm. and the fire was so strong. We (my Mom, Dad, 4 sisters, 2 brothers and I) ran down to the street and looked at the event. We wished our shop wouldn't be next. My father ran to one of the firefighters who was holding the water hose and asked him to spray our building too so it wouldn't burn. Do you know what his said to my father? He said, "we do not have enough water in the truck to cover your building." my father asked him back, "but our building will be on fire too if you do nothing." He smiled, "3000 baht, and I will water your building." I couldn't believe what I heard and I still remember it until today.

25 years later, Bangkok governor, Apirak, confirms that it's still the same. He confirms that, in this latest incident, there was "some" firefighters asked for money from nearby building owners who begged them to protect their buildings too. Ahhh...I felt like I travel back through time to when I stood still watching my father shop nearly caught on fire when my father had to pay his 3000 baht to the bastard."

That is all I want to say.

Golf

Edited by Golf
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Heng, just to let you know there are other countires in the world, not just USA and LoS, and yes there are injustices in them all, but in some more than others

Absolutely. However I don't want to make broad open ended, often one sided, negative generalizations (unlike a lot of people around here) about any country, much less those I have spent little time in -or spent a lot of time in, albeit in one's own personal microcosm- or know fewer than some thousands or more of its residents, etc.

:o

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Nothing personal, Heng.

Nothing personal either, Golf. An excellent personal example. I've been through two fire related incidents, myself. One of a large field next to our house on Sukapibal 3 about 6 years ago (put out by the fire brigade both from the land side AND by fire department klong boats on the Klong San Saap side), and a case of arson in the US about 18 years ago, where one of our tenants who leased the second story of one of properties to run a restaurant, burned our building down (or at least to the point where it had to be rebuilt instead of repaired), put out by the Austin Fire Department before it spread to our other two buildings adjacent on each side to this one. The fire department in both cases, both in the LOS and the US, performed quickly and effectively.... and no bribes requested in either incident. Examples of travesties of justice do not automatically mean the entire system is corrupt.

:o

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There was a brief piece about the trial on the ABC Asia Pacific News today. There were a few words from the Father of the young lady that was murdered.

It cut away to POS running through the court hallway so as not to be caught on the television camera. By all accounts he is now saying that it was not him, that it is a case of mistaken identity!!

First he fled, the admitted to doing it, then it became self-defense, now it's a case of mistaken identity... His next excuse will be just as absurd as " I thought we were shooting a movie".

Will the court remember all of these excuses and his different versions of the events???

10b.jpg

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BACKPACKER MURDERS: Father pleads for justice in court

Witnesses won’t identify policeman as the gunman, so forensic evidence is vital

KANCHANABURI: -- The father of British backpacker Vanessa Arscott, who was allegedly “executed” in Kanchanaburi last year after witnessing her boyfriend gunned down by a Thai policeman, made a dramatic plea for justice at a murder trial this week.

Graham Arscott, 57, from Devon in the south of England, told judges in Kanchanaburi on Wednesday that his daughter was gunned down on what was to be her engagement day.

“We had heard through her sister that Vanessa thought that her boyfriend Adam [Lloyd] would propose marriage to her on September 8, 2004.

“They were in love and looking forward to their future lives together. September 8 was their first anniversary of being together, but Adam was murdered and Vanessa was executed instead.”

“Bang! Bang! Bang! It was just like that,” said Arscott, a retired pharmaceutical salesman.

He described how Vanessa Arscott, 23, a graduate in psychology, was shot at point-blank range clinging onto a electrical pylon half way between the “Bridge over the River Kwai” and the Commonwealth War Cemetery in Kanchanaburi early on September 9 last year. After the murders, Arscott said he came to Thailand to find out for himself what had happened.

“I spoke to many Thai people and many witnesses. They were genuinely upset at what happened on September 9. There were some 16 witnesses to the murder.

“I asked them it they would testify but they said they were afraid. I would like to tell the court that my daughter died in a particularly horrible way. We are looking for justice. We respect the court here and I am confident we will find justice”.

The murder suspect, Police Sergeant Somchai Wisetsingh, sat head bowed looking at the floor as Arscott stood in the witness box for 45 minutes giving evidence about his well-educated daughter, who loved children and animals and made hundreds of friends.

Somchai – who was awarded the title of Kanchanaburi’s “Most Outstanding Policeman” in 2004 – is charged with murdering Adam Lloyd, 25, by gunning him down with two shots from a Smith and Wesson .38. It is alleged he then ran over Vanessa in his Volvo, dragging her body 80 metres along a road, and finally shot her in the neck, lip and chest. He faces a mandatory death penalty if found guilty of the charge of murdering a witness to cover up a crime.

Because no witness will specifically identify Somchai as gunman, police are relying heavily on forensic evidence. This consists of bullets found in Lloyd, Arscott, at the murder scene and in Somchai’s car; plus blood, hair and skin from Arscott and Lloyd’s blood found under his car; and from found on his car.

Andrew Drummond

--The Nation 2005-03-25

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“I spoke to many Thai people and many witnesses. They were genuinely upset at what happened on September 9. There were some 16 witnesses to the murder.

“I asked them it they would testify but they said they were afraid. I would like to tell the court that my daughter died in a particularly horrible way.

Exactly the reason why he should not have been released on bail.

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I had 6000 baht stolen from my wallet by some delivery guys while I signed the delivery papers. I went to Patong police station and reported it. The policeman just said to me "I don't believe you" and walked off. If you get shat on in Thailand, you're on your own.

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There was a brief piece about the trial on the ABC Asia Pacific News today. There were a few words from the Father of the young lady that was murdered.

It cut away to POS running through the court hallway so as not to be caught on the television camera. By all accounts he is now saying that it was not him, that it is a case of mistaken identity!!

First he fled, the admitted to doing it, then it became self-defense, now it's a case of mistaken identity... His next excuse will be just as absurd as " I thought we were shooting a movie".

Will the court remember all of these excuses and his different versions of the events???

10b.jpg

For ole Somchai I like the old machine gun way. This is too comfortable by far. The punter just drifts off to eternity.

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My secret informant killed backpackers, says officer

Published on Mar 31 , 2005

The police sergeant accused of the brutal murders of British backpackers Vanessa Arscott and Adam Lloyd told his murder trial yesterday: "It wasn't me, it was my informant.

"I didn't have a gun. It was pawned. Whenever I had to use a gun, I had to borrow one from a colleague or do without. But my spy, Mr Ya, he had a .38 revolver."

Somchai Wisetsingh, 40, said in his trial in Kanchanaburi that it was a "Mr Ya", whom he had used for drug investigations, who shot the backpackers.

"Nobody knows Mr Ya [Mr Drug], not even my boss. He's one of my spies, and I cover for him. I don't know his phone number, address or real name. But I've used him on 10 investigations."

He admitted Adam Lloyd, 25, had become angry and struck him in the early morning hours of September 10. He said Mr Ya wanted to take revenge.

"He called me the next morning to say he'd 'done' the two Westerners. He said people might think I'd done it, so I should be careful.

"I didn't report that Adam had attacked me to my senior officers. Colleagues phoned to me to say I was wanted, and I didn't want to be arrested. There are 2,000 people in Kanchanaburi prison on drug charges, and I've put half of them in there. I didn't want to go to prison."

Somchai said that was why he fled to Burma, where he remained for a month until he was handed over by the Karen National Liberation Army.

Speaking to a packed courtroom, he said his confession had been coerced. "I was in a room full of police generals. They told me it was in the national interest for me to confess. If I did, they said they'd look after me."

His TV interview apologising to the family of Arscott, 23, was also coerced.

He told the court that on the night in question, he arrived at his S&S Restaurant after 10pm. He recognised and greeted Vanessa and Adam, who had been there two days before.

He said Adam went to the toilet, then walked out of the restaurant.

"I went to my car to give him a lift, and Adam got in the car. After 50 yards, I saw Vanessa and stopped to give her a lift too, or drop Adam off so he could walk her home. They started arguing.

"Then Adam walked round to where I was sitting, punched me in the face ... I got out, and Adam chased me round the car. I fell, and Adam kicked and spat on me until I passed out.

"The next thing I knew, two friends were helping me, one a police colleague, the other Mr Ya, my police spy. They wanted revenge, but I said, 'Don't hurt them. Just take me home'." Somchai said he lent his car to Mr Ya and went home to bed.

Andrew Drummond

Special to The Nation

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My secret informant killed backpackers, says officer

Published on Mar 31 , 2005

The police sergeant accused of the brutal murders of British backpackers Vanessa Arscott and Adam Lloyd told his murder trial yesterday: "It wasn't me, it was my informant.

"I didn't have a gun. It was pawned. Whenever I had to use a gun, I had to borrow one from a colleague or do without. But my spy, Mr Ya, he had a .38 revolver."

Somchai Wisetsingh, 40, said in his trial in Kanchanaburi that it was a "Mr Ya", whom he had used for drug investigations, who shot the backpackers.

"Nobody knows Mr Ya [Mr Drug], not even my boss. He's one of my spies, and I cover for him. I don't know his phone number, address or real name. But I've used him on 10 investigations."

He admitted Adam Lloyd, 25, had become angry and struck him in the early morning hours of September 10. He said Mr Ya wanted to take revenge.

"He called me the next morning to say he'd 'done' the two Westerners. He said people might think I'd done it, so I should be careful.

"I didn't report that Adam had attacked me to my senior officers. Colleagues phoned to me to say I was wanted, and I didn't want to be arrested. There are 2,000 people in Kanchanaburi prison on drug charges, and I've put half of them in there. I didn't want to go to prison."

Somchai said that was why he fled to Burma, where he remained for a month until he was handed over by the Karen National Liberation Army.

Speaking to a packed courtroom, he said his confession had been coerced. "I was in a room full of police generals. They told me it was in the national interest for me to confess. If I did, they said they'd look after me."

His TV interview apologising to the family of Arscott, 23, was also coerced.

He told the court that on the night in question, he arrived at his S&S Restaurant after 10pm. He recognised and greeted Vanessa and Adam, who had been there two days before.

He said Adam went to the toilet, then walked out of the restaurant.

"I went to my car to give him a lift, and Adam got in the car. After 50 yards, I saw Vanessa and stopped to give her a lift too, or drop Adam off so he could walk her home. They started arguing.

"Then Adam walked round to where I was sitting, punched me in the face ... I got out, and Adam chased me round the car. I fell, and Adam kicked and spat on me until I passed out.

"The next thing I knew, two friends were helping me, one a police colleague, the other Mr Ya, my police spy. They wanted revenge, but I said, 'Don't hurt them. Just take me home'." Somchai said he lent his car to Mr Ya and went home to bed.

Andrew Drummond

Special to The Nation

Hey! Somchai stole my idea for a thrilling novel I was about to publish! :o

This his his 4th version of events by now.... Nice try :D

Looks like he's got a really dumb team of spinners in the legal system who are working on his case :D

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Greets from Kanchanaburi,

The P.O.S in question was due to be sentenced today but we've heard no word as yet. Been floating around today talking with anyone and everyone to get the latest....presume now it's going to drag into tomorrow.

I'll let you all know as soon as I hera anything....

Edited by Backpack_thailand
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Greets from Kanchanaburi,

The P.O.S in question was due to be sentenced today but we've heard no word as yet. Been floating around today talking with anyone and everyone to get the latest....presume now it's going to drag into tomorrow.

I'll let you all know as soon as I hera anything....

Sentencing today? WOW... that's amazing. Drop a bombshell of a story that he did and then BAM.. sentencing. It would have dragged a Western trial out for weeks.

I appreciate how much you've stayed on top of all of this, Backpack. Good on you for doing so. Your efforts have not gone unnoticed. Let us know, please, how things go tomorrow. Thank you.

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My secret informant killed backpackers, says officer

Published on Mar 31 , 2005

The police sergeant accused of the brutal murders of British backpackers Vanessa Arscott and Adam Lloyd told his murder trial yesterday: "It wasn't me, it was my informant.

"I didn't have a gun. It was pawned. Whenever I had to use a gun, I had to borrow one from a colleague or do without. But my spy, Mr Ya, he had a .38 revolver."

Somchai Wisetsingh, 40, said in his trial in Kanchanaburi that it was a "Mr Ya", whom he had used for drug investigations, who shot the backpackers.

"Nobody knows Mr Ya [Mr Drug], not even my boss. He's one of my spies, and I cover for him. I don't know his phone number, address or real name. But I've used him on 10 investigations."

He admitted Adam Lloyd, 25, had become angry and struck him in the early morning hours of September 10. He said Mr Ya wanted to take revenge.

"He called me the next morning to say he'd 'done' the two Westerners. He said people might think I'd done it, so I should be careful.

"I didn't report that Adam had attacked me to my senior officers. Colleagues phoned to me to say I was wanted, and I didn't want to be arrested. There are 2,000 people in Kanchanaburi prison on drug charges, and I've put half of them in there. I didn't want to go to prison."

Somchai said that was why he fled to Burma, where he remained for a month until he was handed over by the Karen National Liberation Army.

Speaking to a packed courtroom, he said his confession had been coerced. "I was in a room full of police generals. They told me it was in the national interest for me to confess. If I did, they said they'd look after me."

His TV interview apologising to the family of Arscott, 23, was also coerced.

He told the court that on the night in question, he arrived at his S&S Restaurant after 10pm. He recognised and greeted Vanessa and Adam, who had been there two days before.

He said Adam went to the toilet, then walked out of the restaurant.

"I went to my car to give him a lift, and Adam got in the car. After 50 yards, I saw Vanessa and stopped to give her a lift too, or drop Adam off so he could walk her home. They started arguing.

"Then Adam walked round to where I was sitting, punched me in the face ... I got out, and Adam chased me round the car. I fell, and Adam kicked and spat on me until I passed out.

"The next thing I knew, two friends were helping me, one a police colleague, the other Mr Ya, my police spy. They wanted revenge, but I said, 'Don't hurt them. Just take me home'." Somchai said he lent his car to Mr Ya and went home to bed.

Andrew Drummond

Special to The Nation

Oh dear, that was not cooked up by him alone, this is in my view is prepared by the powers that be to allow a fall guy to step in and confess to the crime and take the rap. No witness is prepared to come forward, & someone else will confess! Doesnt look good. I hope, nay i pray, he does not get away with this blatent but oh so possible escape from justice.

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Here it is:

Father of British victim slams ‘lying’ policeman

Published on April 01, 2005

The father of British murder victim Vanessa Arscott described a Thai police officer as an “outstanding coward and liar” yesterday as a court heard how Thai police rarely know the identity of their informants.

After the weird twilight world of police “spies and informants” was put under the spotlight at the murder trial of a Thai policeman accused of murdering two British backpackers in Kanchanaburi, Graham Arscott, 58, said: “I believe I have heard it all now.

“This man has supposedly won several awards as ‘Outstanding Policeman of the Year’. The only outstanding things I find in him are his cowardice and lies.”

Master-Sergeant Somchai Wisetsingh called police witnesses to support his story that it was not him but his “spy” — “Mr Ya” — who murdered Adam Lloyd, 25, and Vanessa Arscott, 23, last September.

Somchai, the recipient of several “Outstanding Policeman” awards, had earlier told the court in Kanchanaburi that he had been mistaken for the gun-toting Mr Ya, who is the same build as him. But he had been unable to contact him as he did not know his telephone number or address.

And according to his police witnesses, this is quite normal.

Pol Sergeant Surin Tako-Yai, 37, told the court: “Yes. I had met Mr Ya on four occasions. I have a spy called Mr Nok. I don’t know his background. We don’t have to know where they are from, who they are. I don’t know the background of any of my spies.

“Some of them work for money. We use them in sting operations when we are buying drugs. We have to find our own spies. We meet them away from the police station.

“Spies sometimes have guns. But not all the time. They shouldn’t when they are buying drugs.”

Pol Lt-General Phaitoon Saithong – Somchai’s chief – agreed that spies and informers used guns but “80 per cent of the time it should not be allowed”. He said he did not know who Somchai’s spies were.

Somchai claims that Mr Ya came to his aid after Lloyd knocked him unconscious in a row which followed a drinking session in the police sergeant’s restaurant in Kanchanaburi early on September 9 last year.

He said Mr Ya was angry and wanted to get revenge, but Somchai begged: “Please don’t hurt the foreigners. Just take me home.”

He lent Mr Ya his car and he found it parked outside his house the following day.

Forensic evidence revealed hair and skin from Arscott, fibres from her clothing, bullets from a .38, and blood from Lloyd in and around the Volvo car.

Witnesses have told how Lloyd, from Torquay, was shot twice in the head and stomach, and Arscott, from Ashburton, was run over and then executed with bullets to the face, neck and chest, while she was clinging on to an electrical pylon.

Boonsak Nukvech, another witness, told the court that he had seen Mr Ya in Somchai’s restaurant shortly before the shootings.

The trial was adjourned for judgement on May 26.

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