Chiang Mai Vs Chiang Rai

[banpaeng]

Why did you choose where you reside vs the other city. I agree both towns are pretty. What made you choose one or the other.

[chiangrai57020]

Why did you choose where you reside vs the other city.  I agree both towns are pretty.  What made you choose one or the other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can only give my views on Chiangrai as I have lived in the area for the past 6 years. However, I have been to Chiangmai on several occasions.

Chiangmai does have all the conviences - supermarkets, shopping malls, good restrauants, etc.

Chiangrai is pretty 'bleak'! Only one shopping mall - Big C - with decent food market BUT lacking in Western foods. There is nothing to do in Chiangrai, NOTHING. Air pollution is also a problem from December thru April/May. The weather is somewhat cooler during November thru February BUT the polluted air will get to you!

Personally, having lived in Phayao province for 4 years I find this province a much better place to live BUT - NOTHING TO DO. A small shopping mall, similar to Big C is available but lacking in Western products. For restraunts this place cannot be beat.

Housing in both areas is hard to find. You have to drive every soi until, hopefully, you find a sign that says for rent. There is no other way to find a place to rent. There are many shabby places around that are for rent but I would not put an 'animal' in these places.

Hope this helps.

[Johpa]

There is nothing to do in Chiangrai, NOTHING.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well that is a bit of exageration as there are a few places in town to drink and make merry but overall, like very other Thai town outside the known western tourist spots of Chiang Mai, Bangkok, Phuket, Samui, and a few lesser islands, Thailand requires you make your own sanuk. Buy hey, years ago I even found some fun things to do in Fang. But normally I prefer to take my little motorbike and head out into the villages and eat some noodles with the locals and wait for the invite to some home for some great cooking and serious drinking.

[banpaeng]

Thanks for your input.

Seems like I need to go to the Northeast to evade pollution.

[chanchao]

> Seems like I need to go to the Northeast to evade pollution.

It's largely climate related, combined with burning the fields.. It's not related to industry or anything.. NE isn't much better during the hot season, and the hot & dry season lasts longer...

Cheers,

Chanchao

[gerry1011]

The advantages of Chiangrai in the opinion of some are seen as disadvantages by others.

It depends what you look for and what makes you happy.

I think CR offers a much higher quality of life than CM.

There is less traffic, less tourism, less (or no) polution.

There are many places to go to eat (but few western restaurants indeed), and some are very crowded. You just need to go out of the center a bit.

There are also nice places to go for drinks with friends.

There is an art scene, of course much smaller than in CM, but still with some very nice people involved.

There is a quite important foreign community scattered around the region. When you have a nice group of friends and go from one party to the other, it is a way to organize your own "sanuk", like it was said before.

And also, one of the best thing is that CM is "next door". Whenever you want some more action, jump in the car and go for a night in CM...

I do not agree that there is nothing to do is CR. It all depends on what you like to do.

[banpaeng]

Thanks as that is good input. I now need to go look in CR. If any of you floks would entertain a couple of notes to get a few details let me know.

Thanks.

[sabaijai]

Aside from the lack of things to do in Chiang Rai, I find the city overall rather lacking in interesting architecture, whether religious or vernacular. That won't matter at all to many people, I just happen to be one of those folks who likes older architecture. Chiang Mai is over-built of course, but there are some architectural gems here.

If what you most want is low traffic/low tourism, there are several provincial capitals where the cityscape is more interesting than in Chiang Rai, e.g., Phrae, Nan, Tak, Mae Hong Son (though this town is steadily losing it's charm, it's still a lot more attractive than CR). Phrae in particular has the best preserved old city in the north, and it feels more 'northern' than in CR, in terms of cuisine and culture. I think of all the northern capitals I'm acquainted with, CR is probably my least favourite. Phayao is also pretty uninteresting and very Chinese. I would choose Phrae or even Lampang over CR myself.

But to each his own, as the old saw goes ...

[chanchao]

Yes, I agree with a lot of that..

I also never quite understood why Chiang Rai turned into such an 'obvious' tourist (backpacker) destination for people who thought/assumed that Chiang Mai would be overly touristy by now.. I guess it must have been the similar name and the fact it's a bit further from Bangkok, because I can't find any real objective reason whatsoever why Chiang Rai would be more interesting from a tourist-looking-for-an-unspoilt-place point of view compared to Phrae and Nan. (Or Chiang Mai/Lamphun, even) Even the countryside is mostly flat rice fields of the same kind that Isarn has billions of rai of.. (With some exceptions of course)

(Sorry if this pushes this discussion an inch closer to a 'CM vs. CR' war. I'll happily sit back now and let someone verbally take Chiang Mai apart.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[meadish_sweetball]

I just find myself agreeing. CR as a town definitely does not do it for me. There are some nice places in the greater province of CR though, but the charm is a bit like the charm of my native country - you have to look beyond the obvious and easily servable and find your own little water holes. If you make the unassuming Som Tam kitchen your favourite hangout and populate it with one or two good friends, chances are you'll have a blast there....

The novelty of "things to do" wears out in the absence of a good circle of friends. The food tastes better when enjoyed with friends, the comedy is funnier, etc. etc.

Settle down where you know you will have good friends - that is my advice.

[Ajarn]

I think Chiang Rai town is a great jumping off point for tourists. But, unlike CM, CR is maybe better for Thais than farangs. There IS a lot to do in and around town, but maybe not for farangs looking for farang things, like food and pubs... There are also some excellent hotels, very nice waterfalls, lots of local hilltribe action, the ancient city of Chiang Saen with it's outstanding museum. The boat rides up the river to Thaton, the bamboo rafts coming back, Doi Mae Salong, Doi Tung, etc., etc...

Anyone who says CR has little on offer is nuts.

In my experience, the drivers are also generally more civil than many of the CM drivers...

[gerry1011]

Well, I agree with you Ajarn.

CR lacks of "farang type entertainment". But it is still a great city for those who don't mind to mix with the local crowds.

And also, when I was writing about living in CR, I did not mean "living in the center of the city".

The most comfortable is to find a house in the beautiful suburbs of the city.

I do myself live away from the city, but still say that "I live in Chiangrai".

I personaly do have a great circle of friends (including from Chiangmai), and it makes life wonderful here.

But it is not the kind of life everyone likes. I have been living in big cities since ever, and was myself surprised to enjoy the CR's way of life when I came to live here.

And since the farang presence is less numerous in CR, it obliges us to mix more with the thais, which is great.

All this is a question of taste. I loved Nan, but didn't like Phrae at all, and would certainly choose for CR if I had to make a choice.

[bossman]

And since the farang presence is less numerous in CR, it obliges us to mix more with the thais, which is great.

All this is a question of taste. I loved Nan, but didn't like Phrae at all, and would certainly choose for CR if I had to make a choice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Any place that has little to no farang presence gets two thumbs up for me. I got pretty ###### tired of seeing the same scruffy backpackers and aging sex tourists in Chiang mai.

[Ajarn]

Just to be clear, I think CR is a great place to visit (and I do, very often), but I sure as #### wouldn't want to live there at this point in my life.

Not a edible hamburger to be found, for one thing...

[JohnRichard]

We are still better than a year away from our move to Chiang Mai, but this discussion provides a great perspective. Looks like CM with all its "perceived"

problems will still offer a soft landing for our retirement, while CR may eventually offer a retreat from CM if the "perceived problems" eventually wear on us the way

they seem to wear on some who respond to posts about CM on this forum.

However I expect that it is going to take quite a while for us to find the "problems" of CM to anyway approach the PROBLEMS that we actually face now living in the USA and the prospect of the much more onerous future we will face in staying here much longer. After visiting over a 100 countries on six continents am firmly

convinced that Shangri-la doesn't exist so one should have the wisdom to accept what is next best for themselves.

Can't wait for the opportunity to escape Bush's Amerika and to live in either CM or CR. -JOHN

[banpaeng]

John, you are right. If I stay in the good ole USA I am headed for broke. Between Taxes and more taxes my retirement won't last long. I am tired of all the crime and no service in shops.

I am a bit more close to going than you but will be leaving as soon as I sell my house. Have it on the market and look forward to quitting my dead end job.

[Ajarn]

and no service in shops.

Guess what? You're getting better service there than you will likely find here.

[ThaiPauly]

> Seems like I need to go to the Northeast to evade pollution.

It's largely climate related, combined with burning the fields..

Can somebody tell me when they start to burn the fields this is my first year inC.M

Cheers

TP

[Ajarn]

> Seems like I need to go to the Northeast to evade pollution.

It's largely climate related, combined with burning the fields..

Can somebody tell me when they start to burn the fields this is my first year inC.M

Cheers

TP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Basically, whenever conditions are dry enough. Around here, the main smoke seems to be from about mid-December, to around Songkran. To my view, the fileld burning in the valleys now produces less smoke that the forest fires around. Get up in some areas with good views and you're likely to see large areas of hillsides being planted, with ever-expanding boundries as more and more of the forest cover is burned off. Completely out of control, I'd say. Never ever seen any attempt to limit or control the fires, either. This past year is, by far, the worst I've seen.

[meowchawpnom]

Can't wait for the opportunity to escape Bush's Amerika and  to live in either CM or CR.  -JOHN

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can only partially escape it, John. You'll still have to deal with the fact that Bush is going to do everything he can to destroy social security and halve (or worse) your benefit checks. And he's doing everything he can to destroy the value of the dollar and further ruin your ability to retire comfortably.

[skycop]

Not sure I agree with all those points about GB. I too am concerned about the SS situation, its going broke. I still have about 7 plus years to wait. But thank God for my Military retirement Check. It looks bigger and bigger all the time.

I too have gone broke here in the US. I can not (getting old and am sick) keep up with the Jone's as they say. Really do not want to anyway. Wife Is Thai and we have sold home, now waiting about 10 more months. Intend on getting out and moving to LOS. Where? Not exactly sure, thinking of CM and Maybe CR. But not hearing much great about CR.

I am very concerned about the pollution in CM, as I have breathing problems. No oxygen mahcine etc. but troubles just the same. Maybe living West of CM between the two?

skycop

[meadish_sweetball]

As has been said earlier, the burning of the fields and the forest fires are not a problem to Chiang Mai alone. I was in the Pai valley some three hours northwest of Chiang Mai and they have the same problem with the air as CM during the dry season.

If I had respiratory problems and some extra cash, in addition to a house in the North, I would buy a condo near the sea to spend the dry season in. With a bit more means than that I would country-hop to escape this period - Australia and New Zealand are not bad that time of year.

[Tyree D.]

wow, after half a year of scoping I finally registered.

This topic offends me! I've been in CR for 9 months! I love the lack of tourists. That increases my stock. And for those of you that say there is nothing, I pity you.

why compare and contrast places? I lived in CM 5 years ago and I m disappointed how there are more buildings, pollution and tourists like you. CR is an unspoilt gem. This is the real Thailand. I'm glad the bumbling pot bellies never make it up this far.

I don't like western food. I've gone three years without a burger, Ajarn! oh, and I used to be American. I don't even know who won the election (but I did absentee vote )

[Ajarn]

I've gone three years without a burger, Ajarn!

I've gone 40 years without brussel sprouts.

The 'Real Thailand' is anywhere in the Kingdom of Thailand. Different strokes for different folks, na'?

[robinUK]

hello all, we are Robin and Sue from the uk. I am 60 and Sue is 57. We are totally p****d off with the uk.Various friends and my youngest son have given us rave reports on Thailand. Sue is worried that it may be too hot in the South. Can anyone give us some unbiased advice on where to go as we intend leaving the uk and buying ( cash ) a bungalow with a big garden near a small town or village. We are not looking for a European community. Thanks

[Ajarn]

hello all, we are Robin and Sue from the uk. I am 60 and Sue is 57. We are totally p****d off with the uk.Various friends and my youngest son have given us rave reports on Thailand. Sue is worried that it may be too hot in the South. Can anyone give us some unbiased advice on where to go as we intend leaving the uk and buying ( cash ) a bungalow with a big garden near a small town or village. We are not looking for a European community. Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome Robin and Sue.

As some have recently discovered, one man's Paradise is another's Poison

Living in Thailand is a whole lot different than visiting here, as you can likely figure out, so it's imperative that you spend some time here before settling in.

If you want to buy property here, the first question I would ask you is, do you know a Thai person who you'd be happy to give 2-3 million baht to hold for you, with no guarantees you'll ever see you money, or your house, again? You cannot own land in your name here. In case of such a problem, you simply can not in any way count on the legal system to work for you...

Anywhere can be a great place to live here. It depends more on you than anything else.... But do the serious research neccessary to make yourself aware of some of the major pitfalls here.

I've been here for 20 years and I've never seriously thought of living anywhere else. Others living here are desperate to get out, feeling that anywhere is better than Thailand.... Buyer Beware, as always.

Best of luck to the both of you. Take any advice here, including mine, with a measure of salt. There is no such thing as an un-biased opinion.

[udon]

May I suggest that you rent for the 1st year if you are considering buying in CM.

[sabaijai]

I think Chiang Rai town is a great jumping off point for tourists. But, unlike CM, CR is maybe better for Thais than farangs. There IS a lot to do in and around town, but maybe not for farangs looking for farang things, like food and pubs... There are also some excellent hotels, very nice waterfalls, lots of local hilltribe action, the ancient city of Chiang Saen with it's outstanding museum. The boat rides up the river to Thaton, the bamboo rafts coming back, Doi Mae Salong, Doi Tung, etc., etc...

Anyone who says CR has little on offer is nuts. 

In my experience, the drivers are also generally more civil than many of the CM drivers...

All of the attractions you name lie outside of the city, in Chiang Rai Province. If you expand Chiang Mai comparisons to include the province, our province has the three highest peaks in Thailand, plenty of waterfalls and hill tribes, too, and less touristy Jeen Haw villages (a dig at Mae Salong!).

At any rate any CR province attraction is almost as accessible from CM as from CR, just tack on an hour or two to travel time. CM, however is more accessible to attractions in Mae Hong Son, Lamphun, Lampang and Tak provinces. In its favour, CR makes a good hub for visits to Phrae and Nan. So probably they are about equal in terms of accessiblity to other places of interest.

Holding up CR over CM because it lacks 'farang' attractions simply demonstrates the lack of variety the city has. If you're interested in the 'Thai' side of the equation, however, CM offers far more than CR in terms of cultural events, education, art (yes a couple of famous Thai artists live in CR province but you're more likely to see their work in CM than in CR), cuisine, and so on.

[Ajarn]

Apples and oranges, obviously.

At any rate any CR province attraction is almost as accessible from CM as from CR, just tack on an hour or two to travel time

Though, I'd say that's a bit of a stretch of the imagination, unless you're traveling by plane...

[sabaijai]

Though, I'd say that's a bit of a stretch of the imagination, unless you're traveling by plane...

Depends on which destinations you're talking about. With the widened road to Fang, the northernmost point in CM province, trips to northwestern CR, eg, Doi Mae Salong and Doi Tung, are only an hour or two farther. Via Hwy 118, places near Wiang Pa Pao or Mae Suay - such as Doi Wawi - are roughly equidistant between CM and CR, in driving time if not km. Chiang Saen or Chiang Khong, more like two and a half hours. Have you driven these distances yourself, Ajarn?

The point is that CM city, overall, is more centrally located than CR city for trips around northern Thailand. This is even more true for regional trips, with flights out of CM to China, Laos, Myanmar, Singapore, etc.

Folks who champion CR usually cite the peace and quiet and 'Thainess' but for these criteria just about any other provincial capital in the north outshines CR, as I mentioned earlier (Phrae, Nan and Mae Hong Son, for example). Hey I'm just trying to understand what it is some people like about CR specifically, ie, what makes CR unique and special for them. It's not apples and oranges if you're specifiying the points of comparison. Also trying to answer the OP's original question.