Well Connected Farang

[RogerSterling1]

There are bar owners, farang tourist police, embassy workers/officials, and farang married into influential/beauocratic Thai families... should us normal farang be aware of these other farang and try not to upset them, if not to reap the rewards of our actions? I have heard that many bar owners have quite a few police numbers in their cell phone.

[mrtoad]

There are bar owners, farang tourist police, embassy workers/officials, and farang married into influential/beauocratic Thai families... should us normal farang be aware of these other farang and try not to upset them, if not to reap the rewards of our actions? I have heard that many bar owners have quite a few police numbers in their cell phone.

You must be very aware of this, there are literally hundreds of members on Thai Visa who are connected to very influential people here in Thailand - so don't upset them, as they may call the Chief of Police, or an Army General.

You have been warned.

[webfact]

I have heard that many bar owners have quite a few police numbers in their cell phone.

not only bar owners....

[IanForbes]

I don't think it is wise to piss ANYONE off, whether they are connected to a high official or not. Keep a low profile and smile. It works for me. When I don't is when I get in trouble.

[lung]

1155 - tourist police

[britmaveric]

Call HM and you will have no worries.

[mrtoad]

Call HM and you will have no worries.

Howard will save the day, I'm sure Jolly Roger will not be able to resist.

[RogerSterling1]

I have heard that many bar owners have quite a few police numbers in their cell phone.

not only bar owners....

how did u get so well connected webfact?

[Maizefarmer]

There are bar owners, farang tourist police, embassy workers/officials, and farang married into influential/beauocratic Thai families... should us normal farang be aware of these other farang and try not to upset them, if not to reap the rewards of our actions? I have heard that many bar owners have quite a few police numbers in their cell phone.

Yer - and do you know why they have all those phone numbers? - its a "you rub my back, I'll rub your back" kind of relationship, and the cops are very good at playing the game with ex-pats involved in licesenced premises. No such thing as a free lunch for bar owners - just for the cop whose phone number the bar owner has. They're the guys who profit in the long run from those relationships. That's the truth to those phone numbers in most cases.

INFLUENCE - just what is mean't by influence?

In nearly every single case I have heard of ex-pats referring to the "influence" they have through "so and so", or the "influence" they have access to, it is almost always presented exponentialy larger than it is in reality, and it is in any event "influence" that is very limited in scope and capability.

Secondly, it's "influence" in most cases that has come about through pay-off's and bribing. These kinds of "influence" are very much dependent on the amount of money avaliable to keep the relationship oiled. When the money dries up, or when the other side can counter-offer, the "true colours" of the relationship and the "influence" come to the fore ...... and most times it is shown to be what it is i.e. very conditional influence.

Influence through cops? - anyone can buy a cop (or other official) - it's a matter of finding the right cop or right official for whatever you want done and then the right amount of money - I can do that, you can do that, loads of folk can do that - the influence goes with the money.

Is that the kind of influence reffered to?

I'll tell you something about influence: out of all the ex-pats I know, there is only one I know who has the potential to be genuinely influential , and by that I mean he can pick the phone up and have his drivers license returned to him if it was taken from him a a road block, without having to pay anyone anything, he can arrange for something to be brought through the green channel at the airport and be garunteed he won't be stopped or checked, when it should go through the red channel (but he's also the sought of guy who would never abuse that infuence to smuggle drugs), and he wouldn;t have to pay anyone for that courtesy, he could make a phone call to get a visa extended for a friend (but he would never use that influence to get an overstayer through the system without the fine been paid) an dit wouldn;t cost him anything, he could arrange for planning permission to be granted quickly where it would otherwise take a year or more to get through the system, and no-one would have to be paid .... I can think of a 1001 things he could do, and all of them unrelated to each other and not involving money having to be paid.

But I write the word potential (first line - preceeding paragraph) in italics, because there are some characteristics to this influence which are very different form the kind of "influence" I suspect you reffered to in opening post RogerSterling1.

Firstly, the very last thing he, or the Thai authority figures he has access to like to do, is act or conduct themselves in a manner that leaves them in a position of needing to exercise that influence. Secondly, he is very discreet about it (doesn't discuss it with folk or make an issue about it), and thirdly (and proabably most importantly), he doesn't abuse it, or the relationship of trust that gives him access to that influence.

With respect to the kind of influence I think you were referring to RogerSterling1 - well, you only have to read Andrew Drummonds observations on his web site to discover how many farang's thought they had influence, only to find after having paid for it, that the relationship they thought they had with their "influential person" wasn't worth the paper the money they paid was printed on - let alone the value of the money...... it' can be a 2 edged sword: abuse it, and you quickly loose any respect in the relationship - thats when it comes back to bite you.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[cdnvic]

I like the advice about not upsetting anyone. However, Thailand seems to be awash in stories of well connected people, ex-SAS members, etc. In reality, most people who are actually well connected know better than to go around bragging about it.

[p_brownstone]

Maizfarmer is correct of course, the type of influence one has to buy in some form is essentially ephemeral; influence based on genuine friendship is best used carefully – if at all.

As a long term Member of various Clubs etc. here I have a lot of Thai friends in senior positions in many areas, however that friendship is not based on the expectation that I would or should have access to their influence – I am sure the nature of the friendship would change dramatically if I ever requested their assistance in anything even remotely suspect.

Also I think anyone here long enough to have such friends would not put themselves in the situation of needing to use their influence anyway.

Finally as already mentioned it’s never a good idea to deliberately anger anyone – this is Thailand and money can buy all sorts of services; a few months ago I was severely upset by one Farang and for a while seriously considered employing some people I “know” from a Debt Collection “firm” here. Motorcycle Taxi Drivers are also not averse to earning a few extra Baht.

It can be a jungle out there!

Patrick

[onnut]

to the OP, did you upset somebody? there are some funny sorts in Thailand, but I think to be "connected" you need to be seriously wealthy. the people you upset, are they wealthy or do they just lean against a bar all day long. if its the latter, then you have nothing to worry about.

Edited October 10, 2009 by onnut

[Jimjim]

What are they boogy monsters? I think I'll check under my bed for a well connected farang before I go to sleep tonight...

[slapout]

The most sure way to get a indication of a mans/woman's influence is to attend the service upon their death. Just remember that there are some people who would attend just so they could piss on the coffin/grave, so head count can be deceiving. As mentioned above influence has various degrees/colors, the yardstick and or color can be noted/vocalized thru vastly different perceptions. Many of those who claim close relationship with influential individuals seem to have real issues personally and I tend to distance myself from them.

[Heng]

Few and far between. Very few have gone to school with anyone who has any influence/power and thus are off the shelf Black Label and Gold Label relationships, not aged like a Blue Label + 20-30 years in the liquor cabinet relationship. (In laymans JW terms) Most are non-redundant relationships, in other words when they do have some influence, it's with one or two people, instead of several people from various avenues of power that often act as checks against one another.

When connections are present, typically the connection is with an individual foreigner, not a family (whether literal or as an organization) of foreigners, thus by default is the weakest link and most easily (and practically) cut if necessary. It's no different than if you're hosting a large wedding and the hotel only has room for 150 tables... well the first guy you cut off the guest list is probably going to be Roger and friends in stead of Rakpol and family.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Heng

[lazygourmet]

I despite name dropping.

Real connections should never be never mentioned...

The several times farang told me, "Don't you know who I know?":

He knew nobody, and even worst, nothing at all.

[Neeranam]

There are bar owners, farang tourist police, embassy workers/officials, and farang married into influential/beauocratic Thai families... should us normal farang be aware of these other farang and try not to upset them, if not to reap the rewards of our actions? I have heard that many bar owners have quite a few police numbers in their cell phone.

95% of bar-owners marry bar-girls - everyone knows that.

Tourist police

I have lots of influential friends - why shouldn't I mention them?

Edited October 10, 2009 by Neeranam

[stiggy]

In most cases the term a big fish in a little pond springs to mind.Quite often a new westerner on the scene will team up with a young Thai in business and truly believe this guy is ahherm well connected.

Just recently one such chap called his connection (over a unpaid bill he felt he shouldn't pay) the connection arrived and immediately apologized and coughed up, whilst looking sheepish and deeply embarrassed by his new western partners actions.

These kind of expats will often prey on your ignorance in a given situation when claiming they have influence. Stand your ground if its worth it ,cool calm and collected and they will often backtrack.Be careful however they are often ex special forces disguised under a beer gut to blend in

As maize farmer notes most people of real influence do not abuse it.

Personally no one messes with me or my business as my educated female office staff are from Surat and Nakon Si Thammarat...

If I was to unleash there to the point verbal venom on Barak o Bama ,he would hand over keys to the white office.

:D

[webfact]

I compare the OP with "rich farangs in Thailand saga". All those rich guys who are talking about how much money they have... I've met many "millionaires and billionaires".

They even couldn't afford to pay their restaurant bill. People with money will never talk about thei assest and people with real tough connections will never reveal it.

How many times did I hear "do ya know to whom I have connections?" Utter BS in most cases.

Edited October 10, 2009 by webfact

[wamberal]

Anybody who talks about how rich he is, isn't rich. Why would a rich person boast about his wealth, especially in a place like Thailand where personal safety and security can be problematic, to say the least.

Anybody who talks about all the connexions he has, has none. Why would influential people associate themselves with braggarts?

[mrtoad]

Anybody who talks about how rich he is, isn't rich. Why would a rich person boast about his wealth, especially in a place like Thailand where personal safety and security can be problematic, to say the least.

Anybody who talks about all the connexions he has, has none. Why would influential people associate themselves with braggarts?

Correct.

[lovelomsak]

Anybody who talks about how rich he is, isn't rich. Why would a rich person boast about his wealth, especially in a place like Thailand where personal safety and security can be problematic, to say the least.

Anybody who talks about all the connexions he has, has none. Why would influential people associate themselves with braggarts?

couldnot have said it better

[sassienie]

I compare the OP with "rich farangs in Thailand saga". All those rich guys who are talking about how much money they have... I've met many "millionaires and billionaires".

They even couldn't afford to pay their restaurant bill. People with money will never talk about thei assest and people with real tough connections will never reveal it.

How many times did I hear "do ya know to whom I have connections?" Utter BS in most cases.

It`s not the well connected Farangs that concern me, in fact it`s the opposite.

The Farangs to avoid are those that are living in Thailand on a shoestring budget. As these can be found in any bar, teaching at schools and may even approach you in the street. The more affluent criminal types or those with so called high profile connections normally keep within they’re own clicks.

The desperate, these are visa runners who do not have the funds or incomes to meet the requirements of obtaining a 12 month visa here, or those who have a much younger high maintenance Thai girlfriend using most of their funds to support her, others that are scratching around for any kind of work, legal or illegal in order to support themselves and those living in Thailand with no visa at all.

Some take to pushing drugs, behind the scenes begging, working at low paid jobs without work permits or poncing off they’re mates.

These are the Farangs to avoid. Associating with these losers can cause one major problems.

[mca]

There are bar owners, farang tourist police, embassy workers/officials, and farang married into influential/beauocratic Thai families... should us normal farang be aware of these other farang and try not to upset them, if not to reap the rewards of our actions? I have heard that many bar owners have quite a few police numbers in their cell phone.

Yer - and do you know why they have all those phone numbers? - its a "you rub my back, I'll rub your back" kind of relationship, and the cops are very good at playing the game with ex-pats involved in licesenced premises. No such thing as a free lunch for bar owners - just for the cop whose phone number the bar owner has. They're the guys who profit in the long run from those relationships. That's the truth to those phone numbers in most cases.

INFLUENCE - just what is mean't by influence?

In nearly every single case I have heard of ex-pats referring to the "influence" they have through "so and so", or the "influence" they have access to, it is almost always presented exponentialy larger than it is in reality, and it is in any event "influence" that is very limited in scope and capability.

Secondly, it's "influence" in most cases that has come about through pay-off's and bribing. These kinds of "influence" are very much dependent on the amount of money avaliable to keep the relationship oiled. When the money dries up, or when the other side can counter-offer, the "true colours" of the relationship and the "influence" come to the fore ...... and most times it is shown to be what it is i.e. very conditional influence.

Influence through cops? - anyone can buy a cop (or other official) - it's a matter of finding the right cop or right official for whatever you want done and then the right amount of money - I can do that, you can do that, loads of folk can do that - the influence goes with the money.

Is that the kind of influence reffered to?

I'll tell you something about influence: out of all the ex-pats I know, there is only one I know who has the potential to be genuinely influential , and by that I mean he can pick the phone up and have his drivers license returned to him if it was taken from him a a road block, without having to pay anyone anything, he can arrange for something to be brought through the green channel at the airport and be garunteed he won't be stopped or checked, when it should go through the red channel (but he's also the sought of guy who would never abuse that infuence to smuggle drugs), and he wouldn;t have to pay anyone for that courtesy, he could make a phone call to get a visa extended for a friend (but he would never use that influence to get an overstayer through the system without the fine been paid) an dit wouldn;t cost him anything, he could arrange for planning permission to be granted quickly where it would otherwise take a year or more to get through the system, and no-one would have to be paid .... I can think of a 1001 things he could do, and all of them unrelated to each other and not involving money having to be paid.

But I write the word potential (first line - preceeding paragraph) in italics, because there are some characteristics to this influence which are very different form the kind of "influence" I suspect you reffered to in opening post RogerSterling1.

Firstly, the very last thing he, or the Thai authority figures he has access to like to do, is act or conduct themselves in a manner that leaves them in a position of needing to exercise that influence. Secondly, he is very discreet about it (doesn't discuss it with folk or make an issue about it), and thirdly (and proabably most importantly), he doesn't abuse it, or the relationship of trust that gives him access to that influence.

With respect to the kind of influence I think you were referring to RogerSterling1 - well, you only have to read Andrew Drummonds observations on his web site to discover how many farang's thought they had influence, only to find after having paid for it, that the relationship they thought they had with their "influential person" wasn't worth the paper the money they paid was printed on - let alone the value of the money...... it' can be a 2 edged sword: abuse it, and you quickly loose any respect in the relationship - thats when it comes back to bite you.

Thanks maizefarmer. In a nutshell. You saved me a lot of typing there!

I knew a guy once who was always gobbing off about how he had the influence to have people "disappeared" through a top cop he knew. Like a Thai police general is going to encourage the possibility of having shit come down on him because some expat bar owner gives him a free bottle of Jack Daniels and cracks a joke. Too many Walter Mittys in LOS. The vast majority of westerners in LOS who can call on somebody to help them keep it to themselves and would only use that person as a last resort and then if they were being brutally stitched up themselves. And it's unlikely they'd ever get to the point of needing that help anyhow.

[lovelomsak]

I compare the OP with "rich farangs in Thailand saga". All those rich guys who are talking about how much money they have... I've met many "millionaires and billionaires".

They even couldn't afford to pay their restaurant bill. People with money will never talk about thei assest and people with real tough connections will never reveal it.

How many times did I hear "do ya know to whom I have connections?" Utter BS in most cases.

It`s not the well connected Farangs that concern me, in fact it`s the opposite.

The Farangs to avoid are those that are living in Thailand on a shoestring budget. As these can be found in any bar, teaching at schools and may even approach you in the street. The more affluent criminal types or those with so called high profile connections normally keep within they're own clicks.

The desperate, these are visa runners who do not have the funds or incomes to meet the requirements of obtaining a 12 month visa here, or those who have a much younger high maintenance Thai girlfriend using most of their funds to support her, others that are scratching around for any kind of work, legal or illegal in order to support themselves and those living in Thailand with no visa at all.

Some take to pushing drugs, behind the scenes begging, working at low paid jobs without work permits or poncing off they're mates.

These are the Farangs to avoid. Associating with these losers can cause one major problems.

another profound and knowledgeable statement

[Neeranam]

I'll tell you something about influence: out of all the ex-pats I know, there is only one I know who has the potential to be genuinely influential , and by that I mean he can pick the phone up and have his drivers license returned to him if it was taken from him a a road block, without having to pay anyone anything, he can arrange for something to be brought through the green channel at the airport and be garunteed he won't be stopped or checked, when it should go through the red channel (but he's also the sought of guy who would never abuse that infuence to smuggle drugs), and he wouldn;t have to pay anyone for that courtesy, he could make a phone call to get a visa extended for a friend (but he would never use that influence to get an overstayer through the system without the fine been paid) an dit wouldn;t cost him anything, he could arrange for planning permission to be granted quickly where it would otherwise take a year or more to get through the system, and no-one would have to be paid .... I can think of a 1001 things he could do, and all of them unrelated to each other and not involving money having to be paid.

Maizefarmer, what about those with diplomatic passports?

What about those married to influential families?

You can't have many friends.

[orly]

There are bar owners, farang tourist police, embassy workers/officials, and farang married into influential/beauocratic Thai families... should us normal farang be aware of these other farang and try not to upset them, if not to reap the rewards of our actions? I have heard that many bar owners have quite a few police numbers in their cell phone.

Yer - and do you know why they have all those phone numbers? - its a "you rub my back, I'll rub your back" kind of relationship, and the cops are very good at playing the game with ex-pats involved in licesenced premises. No such thing as a free lunch for bar owners - just for the cop whose phone number the bar owner has. They're the guys who profit in the long run from those relationships. That's the truth to those phone numbers in most cases.

INFLUENCE - just what is mean't by influence?

In nearly every single case I have heard of ex-pats referring to the "influence" they have through "so and so", or the "influence" they have access to, it is almost always presented exponentialy larger than it is in reality, and it is in any event "influence" that is very limited in scope and capability.

Secondly, it's "influence" in most cases that has come about through pay-off's and bribing. These kinds of "influence" are very much dependent on the amount of money avaliable to keep the relationship oiled. When the money dries up, or when the other side can counter-offer, the "true colours" of the relationship and the "influence" come to the fore ...... and most times it is shown to be what it is i.e. very conditional influence.

Influence through cops? - anyone can buy a cop (or other official) - it's a matter of finding the right cop or right official for whatever you want done and then the right amount of money - I can do that, you can do that, loads of folk can do that - the influence goes with the money.

Is that the kind of influence reffered to?

I'll tell you something about influence: out of all the ex-pats I know, there is only one I know who has the potential to be genuinely influential , and by that I mean he can pick the phone up and have his drivers license returned to him if it was taken from him a a road block, without having to pay anyone anything, he can arrange for something to be brought through the green channel at the airport and be garunteed he won't be stopped or checked, when it should go through the red channel (but he's also the sought of guy who would never abuse that infuence to smuggle drugs), and he wouldn;t have to pay anyone for that courtesy, he could make a phone call to get a visa extended for a friend (but he would never use that influence to get an overstayer through the system without the fine been paid) an dit wouldn;t cost him anything, he could arrange for planning permission to be granted quickly where it would otherwise take a year or more to get through the system, and no-one would have to be paid .... I can think of a 1001 things he could do, and all of them unrelated to each other and not involving money having to be paid.

But I write the word potential (first line - preceeding paragraph) in italics, because there are some characteristics to this influence which are very different form the kind of "influence" I suspect you reffered to in opening post RogerSterling1.

Firstly, the very last thing he, or the Thai authority figures he has access to like to do, is act or conduct themselves in a manner that leaves them in a position of needing to exercise that influence. Secondly, he is very discreet about it (doesn't discuss it with folk or make an issue about it), and thirdly (and proabably most importantly), he doesn't abuse it, or the relationship of trust that gives him access to that influence.

With respect to the kind of influence I think you were referring to RogerSterling1 - well, you only have to read Andrew Drummonds observations on his web site to discover how many farang's thought they had influence, only to find after having paid for it, that the relationship they thought they had with their "influential person" wasn't worth the paper the money they paid was printed on - let alone the value of the money...... it' can be a 2 edged sword: abuse it, and you quickly loose any respect in the relationship - thats when it comes back to bite you.

well said and very comprehensive in the least number of words.

charismatic leadership rings aloud here.

that "...(even) ex-sas members...." as noted by "cdncivic" and many others noted here have some semblance of influence should also be noted well.

remember not too long ago, an in-house airline magazine featured an article about paid influence of the hideous kinds and their immediate availability "for services" if the price is right is food for thought here.

even well known in southeast asia is the so-called "masonic club" connections that carry out "services" that one should shudder to think of is enough to send chills down one's spine like the yakazuas in japan.

if influence here is meant to include the al capone and "friends" kind, then as noted here above, it is best not to get too close to it no matter what it may or may not cost.

a farang in pattaya many years past - thank god he is no longer around - was very well connected and was very nototrious for taking on "jobs" that other farangs who feel very cheated and who wants to see "justice" done at any price was always available for these overt better than kgb or ss or even the gestapo or mozzad kinds.

of course that was pattaya then.

now?

given a topic of this nature on connections here today, let's pray they are few and far between if not hopefully non-existent.

remember "Apocalyse Now" starring marlon brando?

a scene one recalls had a quotation that goes something like this: "for c.500 baht" or "the price of a bullet", some people "of influence" are willing to carry out some "special assignments.

need one say more in these economic times in this milieu?

Edited October 10, 2009 by orly

[Moonrakers]

I compare the OP with "rich farangs in Thailand saga". All those rich guys who are talking about how much money they have... I've met many "millionaires and billionaires".

They even couldn't afford to pay their restaurant bill. People with money will never talk about thei assest and people with real tough connections will never reveal it.

How many times did I hear "do ya know to whom I have connections?" Utter BS in most cases.

It`s not the well connected Farangs that concern me, in fact it`s the opposite.

The Farangs to avoid are those that are living in Thailand on a shoestring budget. As these can be found in any bar, teaching at schools and may even approach you in the street. The more affluent criminal types or those with so called high profile connections normally keep within they're own clicks.

The desperate, these are visa runners who do not have the funds or incomes to meet the requirements of obtaining a 12 month visa here, or those who have a much younger high maintenance Thai girlfriend using most of their funds to support her, others that are scratching around for any kind of work, legal or illegal in order to support themselves and those living in Thailand with no visa at all.

Some take to pushing drugs, behind the scenes begging, working at low paid jobs without work permits or poncing off they're mates.

These are the Farangs to avoid. Associating with these losers can cause one major problems.

Whilst I agree in principal, I would not include those on a lower income purely because they have little money.

There are many farangs here who live on a shoestring but have honest, legal jobs.

For example a guy that I once met who worked in a hotel, from memory his salary was about 20k baht/month. The reason for his low salary was that he was looking to make a career in the hospitality business and was starting on the lower rungs to gain experience.

Or another guy, a friend of mine who is a teacher. He seems to me, from my limited knowledge, to be a very good teacher who is committed to his work and knows what he is doing. He makes about 25-30k/month and is a person who is happy in life and wouldn't think of bothering another soul. As one of the most pleasant people I have ever met I will always be happy to have a drink with him and even buy him a pint or two if his funds are low.

There are thousands of people such as this across the country and they hurt nobody. They may not have a pot to piss in but they are happy as a pig in sh1t regardless and fair play to them for it. The world would be a better place if materialistic ideals where done away with

Sure the chavvy begging, mooching scam artists who care little about others should be avoided at all costs. But a low income alone is not enough to qualify a person as being such.

[aka_jack]

Its not the people who have friends in high places you have to worry about its the ones who have friends in low places who will do alot more for your money you have to watch !

[villagefarang]

The best way to make and keep influential friends is to never need them and never use them. You don't treat a friend like an asset or flaunt them. Sort out your own problems. Any guy who brags is just that, a bragger.