madjbs Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 "International schools in Thailand offer the same standards as ones in Europe and the US. They have been assessed by three international assessment organisations every five years and Thailand's Office for National Education Standards and Quality Assessment," Usa said. And there we have the most delusional statement of the year so far. I think you are the deluded one..... Do you have any idea about the level of education and facilities on offer at the top international schools here? NIST, ISB, Bangkok Pattana etc.....????? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) It's time to make something clear to some of the forum warriors on here. Your comments aimed at trying to belittle and bash ALL of Thailand's educational institutes, regardless of the fact you obviously don't have any experience in ALL of Thailand's educational institutes, and perhaps none of them at all, are extremely insulting to people who work hard in the system here. Nobody denies that there are many substandard unis, schools, colleges etc.. in Thailand. But, some of you "forum experts" simply can not accept that there are actually some very good unis, schools, lecturers, teachers, programs and students working very hard here, bringing a HIGH quality of education to Thailand. Your negative, IGNORANT comments are truly insulting to all of these people and you should all be ashamed of yourselves that all you can do is moan and bash online. Although, they do say that ignorance is bliss....... Edited October 12, 2009 by madjbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caf Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Unfortunately, these threads really show up ThaiVisa for what it really is (with the exception of a few posters with REAL experience), and that is a bunch of ignorant fools with no real knowledge or experience, moaning and bashing relentlessly from the comfort of their armchair(which they probably never leave). It is no surprise that this forum has a pretty bad reputation among REAL expats in Thailand (not the forum warrior variety). Jai yen. Actually I think there are many knowledgable people on this forum. I don't agree with all of them - everyone has his own opinion - but the majority can hold a decent conversation. I would not agree with your comment "a few" at all and your rather emotive language shows you can't debate an issue on the basis of facts. "bunch of ignorant fools", "bashing relentlessly", ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 It's time to make something clear to some of the forum warriors on here.Your comments aimed at trying to belittle and bash ALL of Thailand's educational institutes, regardless of the fact you obviously don't have any experience in ALL of Thailand's educational institutes, and perhaps none of them at all, are extremely insulting to people who work hard in the system here. Nobody denies that there are many substandard unis, schools, colleges etc.. in Thailand. But, some of you "forum experts" simply can not accept that there are actually some very good unis, schools, lecturers, teachers, programs and students working very hard here, bringing a HIGH quality of education to Thailand. Your negative, IGNORANT comments are truly insulting to all of these people and you should all be ashamed of yourselves that all you can do is moan and bash online. Although, they do say that ignorance is bliss....... I'm sorry but the reality is that whether judged by regional or international standards, Thailand does not have any "very good" universities.There are a number of perfectly acceptable universities here and perhaps three which could be labelled "quite good".In this Thailand does not differ from Vietnam, Indonesia or Malaysia incidentally. If one looks at the position nation wide the position is distinctly substandard. One slightly catty anecdote.A Thai friend who was educated at a major English public school and then at Cambridge told me in all seriousness that he thought the academic standards of 13 year olds at his (admittedly high powered ) English school were somewhat higher than those of Chula students where he briefly taught.In terms of diligence , application and love of learning the English schoolboys were streets ahead.Why this should be so I'm not sure because both groups would be relatively well off/upper middle class.I think it's also fair to say that the English public school involved (Winchester) has a large number of precociously intelligent pupils.Still a bit mystifying none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esprit Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 And I have a student who can name every capital city of every country in the world. He can also name the country if you say the capital. I have no idea why, since it's not a part of the curriculum. And I have a dog that 85% of the time farts when I play my piano but I guess that is no more relevant to the topic either ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibeymai Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Are there really 100,000 students in Laos who can afford to study in Thailand ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommysboy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Highhopes to be Asia's international education hubBy WANNAPA PHETDEE THE NATION Published on October 11, 2009 International education in Thailand is set to grow 10 per cent yearly and the government expects to have up to 100,000 foreign students enrolled here within five years, up from about 30,000 at present, a senior Commerce Ministry official said. "The quality of international academic institutions in Thailand is acknowledged worldwide. Much lower costs than many other countries are our strong point," said Rachane Potjanasuntorn, director-general of the Department of Export Promotion (DEP). "Also, the rich culture, hospitality, good living environment and attractive tourist destinations are crucial factors luring more foreign students to study here," he said. "However, to achieve growth, prestigious Thai universities should reach out to other countries and offer interesting promotions to foreigners." The Commission on Higher Education's Bureau of International Cooperation Strategy said there were 70,174 university students attending international and English programmes in 2008, compared to 60,221 in 2007. The number of foreign students also rose to 16,361 in 2008 from 11,021 in 2007. President of the International Schools Association of Thailand, Usa Somboon, said that in spite of the world economic recession, the number of school students had remained steady over the past few years. There were about 32,000 students in Thailand's international schools each year. Furthermore, more school students from South Korea and Japan are studying in Thailand. "International schools in Thailand offer the same standards as ones in Europe and the US. They have been assessed by three international assessment organisations every five years and Thailand's Office for National Education Standards and Quality Assessment," Usa said. "Lots of former school students here were able to enter many world-class universities. Studying here costs an average of only US$18,000 [bt600,000] per year, while in developed countries it costs $28,000 a year," she added. The DEP has been promoting Thailand's international education for more than 10 years. So far, about 420 international and English programme academic institutions in Thailand could provide around 900 programmes to 102,466 students. The annual Thailand International Education Exhibition kicked off on Friday under the concept "Asia's Hub of International Education". The event is one of the strategies of the DEP to promote international education in Thailand. Princess Yiwang Pindarica of Bhutan, who is furthering her bachelor's degree at an international university in Thailand, presided over the opening ceremony at Queen Sirikit National Convention Centre. Rachane said the exhibition this year highlighted specialised fields in Thailand's academic institutions, including the Aviation Institute, which was accredited worldwide, and King Mongkut's University of Technology North Bangkok, which made the world championship rescue-robots. More than 200 leading Thai international institutes will be available to give visitors information about their curriculum at the fair until today. Different workshops, like short movies, learning Thai and English with famous experts and singing techniques as well as students' |performances are added attractions. Visitors will also learn more about international education from interesting talks by well-known people who have been through the experience. -- The Nation 2009/10/11 My auntie's got bollo*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahmburgers Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) Admittedly, I have just a bit of direct experience with Thai universities, as a lecturer for 7 months. So I don't claim to have a handle of standards of top U's in Thailand. However, I can see some of the results of university education, in the sense that I meet U educated Thais on a daily basis, through various venues. Though they may likely have deep knowledge of Thai culture and language, they generally don't have a good handle on English. I can go in to a bank or a gov't office, and out of 30 workers/staff there, perhaps one speaks passably good English if one is speaking slow and rudimentary. A few times, while at the university, I had students come up to me to ask for clarification on English-related homework given to them by Thai teachers who teach English. Though trying to be as lightweight as possible (not wanting to denigrate the teachers), I still couldn't comprehend their English homework assignments. They were hopelessly convoluted and mistaken. Same for some of the English study books I've leafed through. Considering the dismal state of study material and teachers (even some non-native English speaking farang teachers are doing more harm than good), it's not surprising that Thai U graduate level of English proficiency is dismal. Sorry to bear sad news, but I have to add that Thai U students' (that I've met) handle of geography and world events/history is also grossly lacking. Ask a student to name two cities in any one of Thailand's neighboring countries - see what sorts of responses you get. Also, try this: Ask a Thai U student to tell you a mobile phone number. Chances are none can say the ten numbers in a row. Instead, they'll start, then start again, then stutter, then repeat numbers, add words, etc etc. ...until it takes about 2 minutes to convey a number that should take 10 seconds for a person who can think clearly. Perhaps there's hope, but there's a long slog to go before Thailand can realistically picture itself being an Int'l education hub. Edited October 12, 2009 by brahmburgers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Ask a student to name two cities in any one of Thailand's neighboring countries - see what sorts of responses you get. Also, try this: Ask a Thai U student to tell you a mobile phone number. Chances are none can say the ten numbers in a row. Instead, they'll start, then start again, then stutter, then repeat numbers, add words, etc etc. ...until it takes about 2 minutes to convey a number that should take 10 seconds for a person who can think clearly. Ok, I will try that tomorrow...... Actually, to be honest I probably won't, as the people I would be asking would find it incredible that I would even contemplate they wouldn't be able to answer such simple questions. That is just some more of the stereotypical nonsense that pollutes this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'm sorry but the reality is that whether judged by regional or international standards, Thailand does not have any "very good" universities.There are a number of perfectly acceptable universities here and perhaps three which could be labelled "quite good".In this Thailand does not differ from Vietnam, Indonesia or Malaysia incidentally. Yes, the top unis are only "quite good", but, Thailand does have some very good international schools and it does have some very good teachers and it does have some very good professors. As for all the stories of "my friend told me this and that"...... blah blah..... there is a very good theory in consumer behaviour which describes these kind of negative comments. It is know as "double jeopardy" and it explains the negative comments from people here down to a T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moskito Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) moaning and bashing relentlessly from the comfort of their armchair(which they probably never leave). I was never really good in Math, but if I count correct you just made 6 posts in a row. Maybe you are the one who should leave his armchair. Btw, I never met ppl from my chair and to study another language than Thai is not only necessary if one visits a university, its absolutely essential to understand the stuff because not every Invention in the modern world is made in Thailand by Thais. except one studies hairdressing sry, just forgot something, you wrote It is no surprise that this forum has a pretty bad reputation among REAL expats in Thailand (not the forum warrior variety). may be you will explain what a REAL EXPAT is, AND THAIVISA doesnt have such a bad reputation at all, dont know what you talking about or who the REAL EXPATS are you hanging around with and post us a link of THEIR forum....just for the NOt REAL EXPATS of us Edited October 12, 2009 by moskito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Try reading my post again. I quite clearly said "(not the forum warrior variety)". That means people with real lives, people who travel around the real Thailand, people with real Thai friends, people with real experience of top level education in Thailand. NOT people who just moan on forums all day due to their own ignorance and misunderstandings. Oh and by the way, you shouldn't criticize other people's English when you are not so hot at it yourself. It is not essential to learn another language at university at all. All the major important works have been translated to many different languages, including Thai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moskito Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Oh and by the way, you shouldn't criticize other people's English when you are not so hot at it yourself. It is not essential to learn another language at university at all. All the major important works have been translated to many different languages, including Thai. I haven`t criticized another ppls English, because there was none. I know for myself that my English is poor, trust me, my German is much better, if you want we can chat in German too or Spanish if you like that more. btw, dont you think you are doing originally the same thing what you are other ppl blaming for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 "International schools in Thailand offer the same standards as ones in Europe and the US. They have been assessed by three international assessment organisations every five years and Thailand's Office for National Education Standards and Quality Assessment," Usa said. And there we have the most delusional statement of the year so far. I think you are the deluded one..... Do you have any idea about the level of education and facilities on offer at the top international schools here? NIST, ISB, Bangkok Pattana etc.....????? I doubt it. Having had a Korean god son go to Pattana and leave after a year because of the lack of discipline, numerous kids of friends who have attended Dulwich, and Prem in Chiangmai I am more than aware of what is available. I generally find the kids relatively arrogant, which is maybe not untrue of all kids at "high end" schools worldwide. Educationally they did OK, but also several got a big surprise once they went overseas for University. NIST, Pattana are relatively good, but having attended boarding and prep schools in the UK myself and having friends with kids in several in the UK today, I would say, that they wouldn't make the top 50 boarding schools in the lists in the UK. For the money they don't actually represent that good value for money. I know that NIST is perceived to be the strongest academically, but with a strong entrance exam it should be. Is that enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Calling NIST just "relatively good" is really quite funny. Their average IB score is in the range of the top 10 schools in the UK doing IB. And the fact that it does IB over A levels, is a huge advantage in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) Oh, and NIST's IB average is about 34-35, which is equivalent to a minimum of 4 A's at A level, which would put it firmly in the top 50 UK schools doing A Levels. So in summary, NIST and ISB are in the range of the top 10 UK schools doing IB, and in the top 40-50 schools doing A levels (if converted). I do know however, that some people will still refuse to accept that there are very good schools in Thailand. "Double Jeopardy" in action. Edited October 12, 2009 by madjbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 it is still too early to conclude the future of education in thailand.at worst , it will remain at status quo . at best, it may become the beacon going into the future and may become the most sought after destination for education for many who aspire to be well versed and well prepared for the next brave new world. only time will tell. ex-pat brats? thais have a word for these brats: "nak lien" meaning students. meaning: students of life. western equivalent in meaning: (perhaps?) children learning the ropes in life and making mistakes - lots of it - along the way to the future to become better citizens. the rest is up to the parents. Well I don't think that "ex-pat brats" was meant to be offensive No one is arguing about Thai semantics or how nice Thai words sound beautiful as well as meaningful once translated but it is kind of true. When one talks about sending kids to study after graduation we can hear about choices like Switzerland, GB and US rather than Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Oh, and NIST's IB average is about 34-35, which is equivalent to a minimum of 4 A's at A level, which would put it firmly in the top 50 UK schools doing A Levels.So in summary, NIST and ISB are in the range of the top 10 UK schools doing IB, and in the top 40-50 schools doing A levels (if converted). I do know however, that some people will still refuse to accept that there are very good schools in Thailand. "Double Jeopardy" in action. I must say that I am confused: ISB UK schools??? Isn't it an American school following the US cursus Regarding the level of this school I do not think it is very high As for Nist it has improved greatly in the last ten years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Wow, they hope that 100.000 will enroll. Isn't that the number that were calculated to sign up for the "Thai elite card"? I wonder.... That was funny (harsh but funny) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) ISB follows the IB curriculum, the same as NIST. It has an IB average of 35, which is equivalent to AAAAB at A level. A very high level of education, whatever way you look at it. Edited October 12, 2009 by madjbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 The fact is international students DO come to Thailand, and their numbers are growing. While there are hundreds disparaging posts arguing it's not true, it's all lies, it's impossible, I don't remember a single comment from these "experts" that shows their familiarity with this particular field, with Thai high school and uni programs that attract international students counted among those 30,000. Thai at heart mentioned a Korean kid dropping out of international school, but he said it wasn't because educational standards were poor. I really can't stand any more of these "they don't know neighboring capitals, everyone passes, there's no academic rigor, there's too much face, there is...." off-topic posts. Don't they have "Bitching in Thailand" forum for that? On the other hand, if it gives these people an opportunity to vent their anger in a harmless way, there's probably some merit in it - at least they don't go postal on their students and fellow teachers. Maybe they should have "Teachers Anonymous" forum for that. As it stands, hardly anyone can contribute to the actual topic, including me. All I can say about: "Thailand, keep going and don't screw this up." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakhar Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It's time to make something clear to some of the forum warriors on here.Your comments aimed at trying to belittle and bash ALL of Thailand's educational institutes, regardless of the fact you obviously don't have any experience in ALL of Thailand's educational institutes, and perhaps none of them at all, are extremely insulting to people who work hard in the system here. Nobody denies that there are many substandard unis, schools, colleges etc.. in Thailand. But, some of you "forum experts" simply can not accept that there are actually some very good unis, schools, lecturers, teachers, programs and students working very hard here, bringing a HIGH quality of education to Thailand. Your negative, IGNORANT comments are truly insulting to all of these people and you should all be ashamed of yourselves that all you can do is moan and bash online. Although, they do say that ignorance is bliss....... Those that can do. Those that can't..... Well u r an educator u should know the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahmburgers Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) Ask a student to name two cities in any one of Thailand's neighboring countries - see what sorts of responses you get. Also, try this: Ask a Thai U student to tell you a mobile phone number. Chances are none can say the ten numbers in a row. Instead, they'll start, then start again, then stutter, then repeat numbers, add words, etc etc. ...until it takes about 2 minutes to convey a number that should take 10 seconds for a person who can think clearly. Ok, I will try that tomorrow...... Actually, to be honest I probably won't, as the people I would be asking would find it incredible that I would even contemplate they wouldn't be able to answer such simple questions. That is just some more of the stereotypical nonsense that pollutes this forum. Ok, don't try it if you're too shy and/or afraid the Thai person will find it too incredible. However, if you're a teacher, you could do it as a simple pop quiz. Ask your students to write the countries that border Thailand, and next to each country, ask them to write the names of two cities within. You could take it a step further, and ask them to write which direction each country is in relation to Thailand (N,S,E,W). To make it clearer, give an example. For example, France, which has land borders with Spain, Italy, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and Andorra (though it would be hard to name 2 cities in Andorra). BTW, maybe your students don't look at their classmates' notes, but in each one of the 7 college classes I taught, heads would turn left and right whenever there was a pop quiz. It took concerted efforts on my part to impress upon them that "taking a test means looking only at your own desktop, or at the front of the classroom." They got it eventually, but it was a sustained challenge for a handful of students per class. I know Thais can learn fast. Indeed, one of the top Scrabble players in the world was a Thai guy who didn't even speak English fluently. Instead, he memorized an English dictionary. I'm not saying Thais are dumber than their peers in other countries. Neither do I like to embarrass others. Instead, I'd like to see Thai U students broaden their knowledge base, and be challenged to tap in to their potential for problem solving and creativity. If we're to gauge Thai Universities by their products (for example, the U graduates who run government), then the results aren't so impressive. Look at the current stymied & inept state of Thai government - and that's not even articulating levels of corruptness (ease of influencing a bureaucrat with payment to get special service, etc). Go figure. Edited October 13, 2009 by brahmburgers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakhar Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have worked at one of the "top" international schools that Thailand has to offer. (not as an educator) I will say that I was impressed, and I also will say it was a better school that I ever was exposed as a kid growing up. But as one poster already stated.... Even IF Thailand could produce a great school, would the wealthy desire to send their kids to Thailand? Lets say that through some act of God, Thailand did produce a top notch school, the simple fact is, the school is still in Thialand. Any one been to ISB? That school is parked in the middle of "SlumDom." It looks a huge "Garbage Bomb" exploded, and then someone parked Disney land right in the middle of it. Feature the family tour: Guide: Ok c'oze yo eyes........ wait, wait, wait, wait..... Now open!!!!!!!!!! If I had big bucks I would not send my child to slum-land to get an education. The wealthy are WEALTHY, so why bother to go cheap. So to those "offended" educators, I commend you, but you must put aside your biases and look at the full picture.... and when you do, you will discover, that the "Hub" concept is not going to work. In short, put the crack pipe down, and come back to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 would the wealthy desire to send their kids to Thailand? Not only wealthy people send their kids to study abroad. Thailand seems to have found a niche with Asians, and, if you read the OP, there are lots of other reasons why they choose Thailand - it IS a nice place to spend some time in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Been to Andorra, and I can't remember any individual burg names. Just Andorra. Oh well. I do remember the idiot border guard, who grabbed my Nikon N70 from me and then dropped it, lense first, on the tarmac, costing me 100€ to repair. Not a wonderful introduction to Andorra; mountain cigarette smugglers paradise. Was just trying to think of ANY city besides Vientiane in Laos... no luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clausewitz Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 So is the forum concensus that schools in Bangkok like Harrow, ISB and Shrewsberry give a sub-standard education? Do the members who think so have evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Reviewing the OP, it seems clear it was almost all about UNIS: ..."However, to achieve growth, prestigious Thai universities should reach out to other countries and offer interesting promotions to foreigners." ... The Commission on Higher Education's Bureau of International Cooperation Strategy said there were 70,174 university students attending international and English programmes in 2008, ... Princess Yiwang Pindarica of Bhutan, who is furthering her bachelor's degree at an international university in Thailand, presided over the opening ceremony ... Rachane said the exhibition this year highlighted specialised fields in Thailand's academic institutions, including the Aviation Institute, which was accredited worldwide, and King Mongkut's University of Technology North Bangkok, which made the world championship rescue-robots. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggomaniac Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) This list, if not accurate, is interesting and does NOT even include Thailand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Eleven As long as Thailand shows too much National pride to accept, as a standard, the International language of Economy and trade, She will remain a side eddy, never a 'Hub.' Why 93% of Thais could not even tell you what a Hub is, so how can they become one? In the Philippines English is the main language in schooling and not just for the Elite. 90% of them could write an essay on the subject. There could be an argument that Thailand is better off to remain a nice Side Eddy!? As whole Nation, if they really want to be a "HUB", they have to improve English literacy, by tons. Edited October 13, 2009 by eggomaniac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) Completely irrelevant to the subject in hand. Your assumptions that Thailand is not open to "the International language of Economy and trade" is also wrong. Edited October 14, 2009 by webfact Flame deleted //WF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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