911 On Visa And Company

[rick999]

Veterans,

me a greenhorn in thai immigration laws need advice badly. My situation is this, im a singaporean i have a thai spouse (not officially yet) for about 4 years and she holds a normal office job with an income of only 30k bht/mth. For me i was self employed in my country and recently became unemployed. In recent months - year or so, ive decided to venture out in Thailand with a small F & B company and ive done all my research on the market and research etc and ive decided to sign a lease soon for my shop.

Honestly currently ive no income/ savings of any sort, but ive managed to raise funds for my venture to about 1mil BHT and arrangement of contractors and suppliers has been done (which i planned to start off in dec 2009) but now ive come to a confusing point, whereby which category should i register my comapny as and what type of visa i should go for. Ive scan thru tons of articles, infos, books and websites and it still seems so confusing alike to roads in bangkok. Theres just so many pros and cons, therefore i hope Veterans out there could share with me your experience.

I understand that by registering my business as a Co. Limited im eligible for a work permit and need only 25% of the registered capital (minimum 2 million BHT) to be in account and the remaining 75%, some said its 1year of duration to be paid up and my accountant said theres not a need. But after calculating the costs of the work permit (application, renewals etc) i find it over budget for me. But my company will definitely needs my presence for the first few months or even a year before it can "auto pilot" . Therefore was wondering if i can go for other options into working in thailand in "phantom" mode. Im considering a few options:

• just register my company as Co. LTD. (but its really too costly for that ( the only option left if were to follow the "laws" governing it) well not only costly, ill have to follow the game rules of being Co. LTD like min 4 employees, higher auditing fees etc) even so i choose this method, i still cant be in time for my work permit to be issue when my business starts to run in december.
  
• get married with my spouse legally and register my company as Ordinary Partnership and work in Phantom mode and ( taking a risk...not sure if "tea money" practise will helps if trouble arise)
  

1. whats the period of visa to stay in thailand if by getting married and getting by with visa type "o"
   
2. understand that BHT 40k/mth of income or 400k in bank account (for a period of 2months) must be present in order to "qualify" to get married with a thai. But i dont have both in the correct way, my best hopes will be "400k in bank account", as i can first deposit half of my fundings of BHT 1million for my business now and withdraw it after the application process, but will they "buy" this situation as the money (BHT400k) did not "rot" or inflates in my account for 2 months. And my only biggest asset now is only my lifebook which im using now and cash of BHT 500K (which is meant for the setting of shop). Or maybe i should set-up a "shell" company in my country now and use that as my "income".
   

• or i should just get a "monk" visa or probably i could convince either one of my spouse friends to issue me a visa/ work permit with their more established company? (not too sure if any will agrees)
  
• or just made border-runs every 30days
  

i understand that "maintaining" a work permit could be quite costly, but exactly how costly it is im not too sure as theres so many versions out there claiming the sums of the applications n renewals. Whats more the Official websites are just simply talking thai not english that i can get any correct info at all.

Pls Veterans do advise me on this, any advise/ suggestions will be greatly appreciated, sometimes its just so "Grrr" for Thai "Laws" ...but i know that this is not the biggest factor to stop our passion to be there, there must be some "options" out there and i would really love to have a deeper understanding of the thai culture and making contributions to its economy (compare to my "homeland") thanks alot guys.

[thaiphoon]

1) If married to Thai, limited company structure only requires 1 million baht of registered share capital; otherwise 2 million baht.

2) If married to Thai, limited company structure only requires 2 Thai employees; 4 Thai employees otherwise.

3) 25% of registered share capital to be in bank account at inception, remainder can show in accounts as outstanding directors loans with no repayment date.

4) You need a work permit from Ministry of Labour to work legally in Thailand. They are not difficult to obtain. A one year work permit costs 3,000 baht + 100 baht admin fee. Work permits are tied to a named employer. You need to be on either Non-B or Non-O visa when collecting your work permit.

5) If married to Thai you can apply for 12 month extension of stay if you meet the requirements. Financial requirements being 400k in Thai bank account (in your name) for two months prior to application OR 40k/month income (your income). You would need to be on Non-O visa (or can go through conversion process if on visa exempt or tourist visa with at least 21 days left on your permission to stay) prior to application. Once extension is granted you would need to report your address to immigration every 90 days.

6) If money is a problem, once married, you could obtain 12 month multi-entry Non-O visa from embassy/consulate abroad on the basis of marriage to Thai. KL would be a good place to go. You will need some money in Thai bank account. Reports indicate that generally 30k+ seems to be acceptable figure, but there is no set rule. You would have to do border runs every 90 days. Do a border run just before visa expires and obtain new 90 day permission to stay, stretching visa to 15 months. Repeat process next year if you still do not meet the requirements for extension of stay.

The links below will provide you with more information on business:

http://www.boi.go.th/english/how/legal_iss...n_investors.asp

http://eng.mol.go.th/doe_service01.html

[Maestro]

rick999, what does “911” in your topic title mean?

--

Maestro

[jazzbo]

In USA '911' is the emergency police/fire/ambulance dispatch number established long before the year 2001...meaning, in this case, HELP!

[Lite Beer]

1) If married to Thai, limited company structure only requires 1 million baht of registered share capital; otherwise 2 million baht.

2) If married to Thai, limited company structure only requires 2 Thai employees; 4 Thai employees otherwise.

Looks like getting married would help him a lot.

[rick999]

1) If married to Thai, limited company structure only requires 1 million baht of registered share capital; otherwise 2 million baht.

2) If married to Thai, limited company structure only requires 2 Thai employees; 4 Thai employees otherwise.

thks a million for the info dude

rick999, what does "911" in your topic title mean?

--

Maestro

i think jazzbo has answered this for me hee thanks so much Jazzbo

Looks like getting married would help him a lot.

agree LB. Getting married in thai will helps but im afraid if one day anything happens to my ventue and go bankrupt will become a problem as both of us will be bankrupt and it will be rather difficult to get any legal things done in a desired way...

just a few more questions. the minimum salary of 45k that im going to be "paid" by my own company, when im the director? sounds confusing to how am i going to "pay" myself?

one last thing is it advisable to get a work permit with the 45K of salary im actaully "qualified" to marry a thai and after getting married ill not renew my work permit and just run on Visa "O". Y im doing this is bcos im thinking of having clearer accounting for myself when all my taxes will be base on the comoany profits, rather than so many types (company tax, personal income etc) i need to account for. is it advisable to stay in thailand with Visa "O" rather than work permit as its double hassles.

*by the way any chance theres some members here whos from SG too? male ? as i wonder how do u handle the "SAF" re service? its very annoying like a housefly...u know

thks a million again for those info Guys this forum has been very helpful. Cheers all,

Rick

[MJo]

6) If money is a problem, once married, you could obtain 12 month multi-entry Non-O visa from embassy/consulate abroad on the basis of marriage to Thai. KL would be a good place to go. You will need some money in Thai bank account. Reports indicate that generally 30k+ seems to be acceptable figure, but there is no set rule. You would have to do border runs every 90 days. Do a border run just before visa expires and obtain new 90 day permission to stay, stretching visa to 15 months. Repeat process next year if you still do not meet the requirements for extension of stay.

As Singaporean you can get the multiple entry non-O visa from Thai embassy in Singapore. Requirements as above, you need to be married and some money required at bank. Statements can be print outs from online banking. Submit in the morning and pick up the next day.

Thai embassy in Singapore

[rick999]

As Singaporean you can get the multiple entry non-O visa from Thai embassy in Singapore. Requirements as above, you need to be married and some money required at bank. Statements can be print outs from online banking. Submit in the morning and pick up the next day.

Hi MJo, u from SG too? are we able to defer our "SAF Reservist" with Visa "O" or we need work permit? Thx in advance

[MJo]

As Singaporean you can get the multiple entry non-O visa from Thai embassy in Singapore. Requirements as above, you need to be married and some money required at bank. Statements can be print outs from online banking. Submit in the morning and pick up the next day.

Hi MJo, u from SG too? are we able to defer our "SAF Reservist" with Visa "O" or we need work permit? Thx in advance

Just working in SG, not citizen. So not familiar with SAF rules. Had a mate once who said he was not required to participate as he was working outside (had a work permit).

NB: also if you hold PR or EP in singapore you can get your visas from the embassy here no probs. Just provide copy of your EP or PR with the application including any stamps in your passport.

[thaiphoon]

1) Advantage of using limited company structure is that if business fails then it is the company that dies. Unless you have given guarantees you will not become bankrupt.

2) 40k is the minimum salary requirement to support application for extension of stay based on marriage. 45k is the minimum salary requirement for Singaporean national when applying for extension of stay based on employment (you would not be eligible for this right now as company has to provide 2 years audited accounts and tax receipts as part of application). There is no salary requirement to obtain a work permit. Getting married now may make matters easier for you (as you indicate money is tight).

3) Company would have its own bank account and can make salary payment (less tax) to you by cheque or bank transfer.

4) A work permit is separate to a visa. Having a visa enables you to apply for permission to stay. Having permission to stay does not give you a right to work in Thailand. Having a work permit does. You cannot work legally in Thailand without a work permit. If caught the penalties are high and can lead to jail time, but usually reduced to fine and deportation ... bye bye Thailand.

5) The company will have to submit withholding tax returns to Revenue Department every month, in addition to annual accounts. Most foreigners employ a service provider to take care of the accounting/auditing and associated paperwork for them. You will have to pay tax on your salary and complete Thai income tax every year. Your service provider can usually help you with that.

[rick999]

Just working in SG, not citizen. So not familiar with SAF rules. Had a mate once who said he was not required to participate as he was working outside (had a work permit).

NB: also if you hold PR or EP in singapore you can get your visas from the embassy here no probs. Just provide copy of your EP or PR with the application including any stamps in your passport.

Noted that Mjo, thanks so much cheers

[rick999]

1) Advantage of using limited company structure is that if business fails then it is the company that dies. Unless you have given guarantees you will not become bankrupt.

2) 40k is the minimum salary requirement to support application for extension of stay based on marriage. 45k is the minimum salary requirement for Singaporean national when applying for extension of stay based on employment (you would not be eligible for this right now as company has to provide 2 years audited accounts and tax receipts as part of application). There is no salary requirement to obtain a work permit. Getting married now may make matters easier for you (as you indicate money is tight).

3) Company would have its own bank account and can make salary payment (less tax) to you by cheque or bank transfer.

4) A work permit is separate to a visa. Having a visa enables you to apply for permission to stay. Having permission to stay does not give you a right to work in Thailand. Having a work permit does. You cannot work legally in Thailand without a work permit. If caught the penalties are high and can lead to jail time, but usually reduced to fine and deportation ... bye bye Thailand.

5) The company will have to submit withholding tax returns to Revenue Department every month, in addition to annual accounts. Most foreigners employ a service provider to take care of the accounting/auditing and associated paperwork for them. You will have to pay tax on your salary and complete Thai income tax every year. Your service provider can usually help you with that.

"45k is the minimum salary requirement for Singaporean national when applying for extension of stay based on employment (you would not be eligible for this right now as company has to provide 2 years audited accounts and tax receipts as part of application). There is no salary requirement to obtain a work permit."

Thx TP for the explanations, but im still not too sure abt the above. does it means that the "salary" from my comapny is not "grounded" ( 2 yrs of audit ) enough for me to use it as application for my extensions in future? hmm...

"Getting married now may make matters easier for you"

yes TP it will be easier but would i be "eligible" with the salary coming from my left pocket to right pocket?

"Company would have its own bank account and can make salary payment (less tax) to you by cheque or bank transfer."

which means i need to actually open a personal bank account? can i do that if im not a PR/ citizen?

Thx so much for the patience TP cheers

[MJo]

You don't need money or income to get married.

Also bank account can be opened easily with non-immigrant visa and some banks open you one even without any visa. No need to be PR or citizen.

TP is talking about one year extension of stay based on employment. If you get this it means you can stay thailand for whole year without leaving. To get this you need salary of 45k per month as minimum but you also must be able to provide 2 years audited accounts. So you can get a work permit and visa now but you need to exit every 90 days until you can provide the 2 year accounts and qualify for annual extension of stay. If you go employment route.

If you get married it is enough that your company pays you 40k per month salary and with that you can get the one year extension of stay based on marriage. Or if the 40k per month is too much then get a multiple entry non-O visa from Singapore embassy and you only need to do border run every 90 days.

[thaiphoon]

You don't need money or income to get married.

Also bank account can be opened easily with non-immigrant visa and some banks open you one even without any visa. No need to be PR or citizen.

TP is talking about one year extension of stay based on employment. If you get this it means you can stay thailand for whole year without leaving. To get this you need salary of 45k per month as minimum but you also must be able to provide 2 years audited accounts. So you can get a work permit and visa now but you need to exit every 90 days until you can provide the 2 year accounts and qualify for annual extension of stay. If you go employment route.

If you get married it is enough that your company pays you 40k per month salary and with that you can get the one year extension of stay based on marriage. Or if the 40k per month is too much then get a multiple entry non-O visa from Singapore embassy and you only need to do border run every 90 days.

That saved me replying!

[MJo]

At your service

Rick, the marriage will benefit you a lot what comes setting yourself up. However, think it thru also on personal viewpoint and not pure business.

As you talk SAF i assume you still fairly young chap (as myself ) so rushing to marry can cost you a much more than couple of mil baht especially if your business is build on the marriage. Not my place to give advice on this but just my two cents worth...

[rick999]

You don't need money or income to get married.

Also bank account can be opened easily with non-immigrant visa and some banks open you one even without any visa. No need to be PR or citizen.

TP is talking about one year extension of stay based on employment. If you get this it means you can stay thailand for whole year without leaving. To get this you need salary of 45k per month as minimum but you also must be able to provide 2 years audited accounts. So you can get a work permit and visa now but you need to exit every 90 days until you can provide the 2 year accounts and qualify for annual extension of stay. If you go employment route.

If you get married it is enough that your company pays you 40k per month salary and with that you can get the one year extension of stay based on marriage. Or if the 40k per month is too much then get a multiple entry non-O visa from Singapore embassy and you only need to do border run every 90 days.

i see i see its very helpful mate, tthx for clearing my doubts. to confirm my doubts, so it means that getting married doesnt needs money or income unless i need a Visa to stay in thailand for a 90days-1year.

im clearer now, i will take the safer n legal path thats to get married and get a work permit and starts to apply for "One year extension of stay" , but whats the "minimun period of salary records of 40k" will they need before i can start applying for this "One year extension of stay" based on marriage?

man..really hate running the borders...maybe overall running the borders compare to having the work permit hassles is not so much a hassle afterall

thx again dudes

[rick999]

At your service

Rick, the marriage will benefit you a lot what comes setting yourself up. However, think it thru also on personal viewpoint and not pure business.

As you talk SAF i assume you still fairly young chap (as myself ) so rushing to marry can cost you a much more than couple of mil baht especially if your business is build on the marriage. Not my place to give advice on this but just my two cents worth...

u made a point here mate marriage could be the more deciding factor compare to the few mil BHT, will take note of that i guess the marriage (heard many ugly cases of thai marriage) will somehow be a little like ventures, Risks. So i guess ill just have to try it out both at the same time saving my "time" spent for failures (if any) as it will happens together

oh yah almost forgot my persn description, im only 29 this year (too bad am not eligible for the retirement visa)

[MJo]

i see i see its very helpful mate, tthx for clearing my doubts. to confirm my doubts, so it means that getting married doesnt needs money or income unless i need a Visa to stay in thailand for a 90days-1year.

im clearer now, i will take the safer n legal path thats to get married and get a work permit and starts to apply for "One year extension of stay" , but whats the "minimun period of salary records of 40k" will they need before i can start applying for this "One year extension of stay" based on marriage?

man..really hate running the borders...maybe overall running the borders compare to having the work permit hassles is not so much a hassle afterall

thx again dudes

You can get multiple entry non-O visa from singapore embassy with marriage certificate and "some" money in the bank. I doubt much is needed but you can check from the embassy by calling them to find out what is acceptable minimum. The money can also be in your singapore account no probs. With this visa you need to do border run every 90 days.

If you want to stay whole year without border runs you need to first get non-O visa based on marriage and then apply for annual extension to stay. To be able to apply you need to have proven income of 40K thai baht per month or you need to have 400K in your bank account 2 months before you apply.

To prove you have the income you need to show income tax receipts from Thailand, so evidence that you have received 40k per month salary in thailand and have paid income tax for it. Other option is to use income from Singapore but i understood you don't have any. If you use 400k at bank option you need letter from bank stating that you have maintained balance over 400k for previous 2 months (60 days) before you apply.

[MJo]

u made a point here mate marriage could be the more deciding factor compare to the few mil BHT, will take note of that i guess the marriage (heard many ugly cases of thai marriage) will somehow be a little like ventures, Risks. So i guess ill just have to try it out both at the same time saving my "time" spent for failures (if any) as it will happens together

oh yah almost forgot my persn description, im only 29 this year (too bad am not eligible for the retirement visa)

Well your not getting any younger at 29 so go for it And good luck. Let us know once your business is up and running. Maybe you can get few good customers from thai visa.

[rick999]

You can get multiple entry non-O visa from singapore embassy with marriage certificate and "some" money in the bank. I doubt much is needed but you can check from the embassy by calling them to find out what is acceptable minimum. The money can also be in your singapore account no probs. With this visa you need to do border run every 90 days.

If you want to stay whole year without border runs you need to first get non-O visa based on marriage and then apply for annual extension to stay. To be able to apply you need to have proven income of 40K thai baht per month or you need to have 400K in your bank account 2 months before you apply.

To prove you have the income you need to show income tax receipts from Thailand, so evidence that you have received 40k per month salary in thailand and have paid income tax for it. Other option is to use income from Singapore but i understood you don't have any. If you use 400k at bank option you need letter from bank stating that you have maintained balance over 400k for previous 2 months (60 days) before you apply.

Thx Mjo for the patience. so it still comes back to minimum "a year" requirement before i can avoid border runs as i still need to pay my own income tax before they recognise my 40k salary

it seems ive to keep extending my 90 days visa every 80th day before it expires/ run to borders ...

thx so much for the valuable infos

Well your not getting any younger at 29 so go for it And good luck. Let us know once your business is up and running. Maybe you can get few good customers from thai visa.

thats for sure MJo ...considering of taking up a plastic surgery in thai to look like 19 alike those korean stars any recommendations? lol

[MJo]

If you are married and have 40k income from your business you do not need to wait for a year to get annual extension. You pay your income taxes every month i believe and use the receipt to apply for annual extension of stay. Propably letter from "employer" will help. At this situation from your own company.

[thaiphoon]

Thx Mjo for the patience. so it still comes back to minimum "a year" requirement before i can avoid border runs as i still need to pay my own income tax before they recognise my 40k salary

My guess is that with proper employment contract between the company and you (good company service provider can usually supply) and maybe a couple of months salary payments you should be able to apply for permission to stay based on marriage. By then you will have some monthly company withholding tax returns showing the deduction of tax on salary and appropriate payment to Revenue Department. Different immigration offices do interpret the rules differently.

Suggest you obtain multi-entry Non-O visa at outset (rather than single entry visa) as that will keep your options open. You can do border run on day 90 (last day of permission to stay stamp) if you want to to maximise time on your visa.