Who To Write To?

[hunghung]

In April, 2008, I filed an online complaint against the travel agent //*deleted*// to Ministry of Tourism and Sports via the website touristassistancecenter.go.th (this site is no longer functional). A Ministry staff acknowledged my complaint by email.

However, despite repeated online inquiry about the progress of the complaint, I received no response from the Ministry.

When I was in Bangkok earlier this year in May, I went to MOTS National Stadium office to inquire about the progress of my complaint (which I filed online in April 2008). They found no record of the complaint and asked me to file a written complaint against //*deleted*// while I was in that office. I did accordingly and a staff said I would hear from the Ministry in 2-3 weeks.

Not having heard anything, I sent a letter to the National Stadium office in August and another one in September, 2009 inquiring about the progress of the complaint, but again I heard nothing. About a month ago, I sent a letter about the matter to Mr.Weerasak Kowsurat (Minister of Tourism and Sports) at the Ratchadamneon Rd. address, but heard nothing.

I think it is conclusive that MOTS is not going to do anything about my complaint (I wonder why; corruption/incompetence?) and I have to look for alternative ways to get my complaint addressed.

Can you please tell me who and/or which organizations (e.g. cabinet members, legislators) I can write to about this matter?

Hunghung

[lordsux]

Sounds about par for the course.

[H2oDunc]

Forget it! Put it down to experience and get on with your life. NOBODY cares or will do anything about it. Why waste your valuable time and effort for a no starter.

[astral]

If you paid for the ticket with a credit card you may have recourse through the card provider.

On the Thai side, well just forget it.

[webfact]

If you paid for the ticket with a credit card you may have recourse through the card provider.

On the Thai side, well just forget it.

I'll second that. Forget it.

Thais might view your case as "making a mountain out of a molehill"

[zzaa09]

If you paid for the ticket with a credit card you may have recourse through the card provider.

On the Thai side, well just forget it.

I'll second that. Forget it.

Thais might view your case as "making a mountain out of a molehill"

Correct. Better for this gent to be wiser from his experience next round.

[lannarebirth]

You may ask the question "are they corrupt or just incompetent?", but it is really beside the case. They have their job and title because they know someone who was in a position to give then that job and title. The demands of the job are somewhat superfluous to the fact that they have a job and title. The reason the office even exists is so that they may have a job and title. It is not your fault that you may have believed that it was to serve consumers, but sadly that is not the case.

edit: I dated a Thai lawyer once. A Thammasat grad. Lovely girl but not overly bright. She made coffee and took the lunh orders at her law office. She understood she would never really get any cases to work on there so she thought she might study another year or two and become a judge.

Edited August 11, 2010 by lannarebirth

[IanForbes]

Just how much money are you out of pocket? If it is anything less than 20,000 baht then just chalk it up to another foreigner being scammed. Why fret about it and waste your time? There is corruption everywhere; Just accept it.

Understand that it takes 10 Thais to do one person's job. It is the Thai family system where everyone shares any tiny profit that might possibly be made by any one person who might actually work. It doesn't matter what private business or government agency we are talking about; It's all the same.

And, it's really no different in the UK, Canada or the USA when it comes to government agencies. That is why it costs $100 for one $10 hammer in the US military. You have to pay the high salaries for all those generals sitting around playing war games.

[robblok]

Just how much money are you out of pocket? If it is anything less than 20,000 baht then just chalk it up to another foreigner being scammed. Why fret about it and waste your time? There is corruption everywhere; Just accept it.

Understand that it takes 10 Thais to do one person's job. It is the Thai family system where everyone shares any tiny profit that might possibly be made by any one person who might actually work. It doesn't matter what private business or government agency we are talking about; It's all the same.

And, it's really no different in the UK, Canada or the USA when it comes to government agencies. That is why it costs $100 for one $10 hammer in the US military. You have to pay the high salaries for all those generals sitting around playing war games.

Ah this is similar, there was an article in a newspaper about a goverment agency where you should report dual pricing reported something a few times and asked for follow up.. It never came.

But i have to admire this guy his tenacity, its not always about money sometimes its about feeling too.

[Thakkar]

You may ask the question "are they corrupt or just incompetent?", <snip>

Can't they be both?

[JusMe]

Sometimes it's not about actually getting results, but enjoying stirring the pot!

[hunghung]

Sometimes it's not about actually getting results, but enjoying stirring the pot!

I am the righteous type who enjoys giving bad guys what they deserve despite all odds.

In HK, where I live, ppl would write to "members of parliament' for addressing certain issues, suggesting ideas ... I want to write to Thailand's MPs about my issue with MOTS. Where can I get a list Thai MPs and there contact info?

lannarebirth: Would you be able to ask your ex-lawyer-girlfriend where to report unethical conduct of lawyers? Laksanara obviously told me (the public) blatant lies when carrying out official duty and I think I should be able to "get her" on this.

I think incompetence/corruption in Thai government is what keeps the country from moving up to the category of Singapore or the likes. Good things or bad things start with the government.

Finally, I am amazed by the low level of English of Thai lawyers (I don't think Lakssanara's poor English is an individual case, but I may be wrong on this).

[johna]

You are a falang, the Thais will close ranks against you.

You start calling government officials liars on a public forum you could end up in a lot of trouble.

[Thakkar]

You are a falang, the Thais will close ranks against you.

You start calling government officials liars on a public forum you could end up in a lot of trouble.

Please. Constructive criticism that is respectfully advanced without malice and over a genuine grievance will not get you into trouble. This isn't North Korea.

[PattayaParent]

Sometimes it's not about actually getting results, but enjoying stirring the pot!

I am the righteous type who enjoys giving bad guys what they deserve despite all odds.

In HK, where I live, ppl would write to "members of parliament' for addressing certain issues, suggesting ideas ... I want to write to Thailand's MPs about my issue with MOTS. Where can I get a list Thai MPs and there contact info?

lannarebirth: Would you be able to ask your ex-lawyer-girlfriend where to report unethical conduct of lawyers? Laksanara obviously told me (the public) blatant lies when carrying out official duty and I think I should be able to "get her" on this.

I think incompetence/corruption in Thai government is what keeps the country from moving up to the category of Singapore or the likes. Good things or bad things start with the government.

Finally, I am amazed by the low level of English of Thai lawyers (I don't think Lakssanara's poor English is an individual case, but I may be wrong on this).

And you're surprised that she doesn't give you her name????

What makes you think that Thai lawyers should have a command of English? They study Thai Law, which is written in Thai.

[tig28]

Hi Hunghung

"Don't they have basic English courses at schools and universities?"

Yep! And the results are about as basic as the replies you have received from her.

I do rather feel for you -- and can understand your desire to get things put right (I have read of your epic tour) but I fear you are up against a brick wall.

I would not have the endurance you have exhibited --- I wish you luck. I think you shall need it!

[Garry9999]

Sometimes it's not about actually getting results, but enjoying stirring the pot!

I am the righteous type who enjoys giving bad guys what they deserve despite all odds.

In HK, where I live, ppl would write to "members of parliament' for addressing certain issues, suggesting ideas ... I want to write to Thailand's MPs about my issue with MOTS. Where can I get a list Thai MPs and there contact info?

lannarebirth: Would you be able to ask your ex-lawyer-girlfriend where to report unethical conduct of lawyers? Laksanara obviously told me (the public) blatant lies when carrying out official duty and I think I should be able to "get her" on this.

I think incompetence/corruption in Thai government is what keeps the country from moving up to the category of Singapore or the likes. Good things or bad things start with the government.

Finally, I am amazed by the low level of English of Thai lawyers (I don't think Lakssanara's poor English is an individual case, but I may be wrong on this).

I think you enjoying stirring the pot also.

Thailand is not Singapore and making comparisons is ridiculous.

I am amazed by the low level of English of Thai lawyers, Really? I'm not surprised, but in their favour, their Thai language skills are exceptional.

I don't know what your motives are here, but the best advice came on the second reply

Forget it! Put it down to experience and get on with your life. NOBODY cares or will do anything about it. Why waste your valuable time and effort for a no starter.

[hunghung]

Haven't you thought about that the journey is more interesting than the destination (whatever it may be)?

[slapout]

Ever now and again I, like th op will pursue some perceived injustice, just for the sake of being a pain in their arse. I have returned and gotten refunds on defective equipment (mobile phone, household item, etc) when I felt the effort was worth it. Being retired, my calculated time cost is quite reasonable. I have always dealt with the offending company or individual directly and never approached any government agency for support/help. My thinking is why deal with two incompetent groups when one is enough aggravation. I have found the threat of reporting the offender to some classey sounding government group, put add in local newspaper (Thai), slag them off on TV/other forums, can get their attention and subsequent offer of compensation.

Any government group comprised of self proclaimed lawyers should be a red flag waving during a gale. either one is bad, but attempting to deal with a combo of the two, could lead to your commitment to the funny farm. Good luck in your quest.

[hunghung]

>>And you're surprised that she doesn't give you her name????<<

Maybe you can tell me why she didn't give me her name since you are more familiar with the Thai culture. I know many Ameriicans wouldn't give their last names, probably due to fear of identity theft.

[cardholder]

You have not clarified the financial cost of this incident.

You clearly will not succeed in your current line of attack. In this particular case NO the journey is not more interesting than the destination - unless you have a lot of time on your hands..

I have a friend who is remarkably dogged when dealing with agencies in the UK and he has been successful in his persistence. With Thais, regrettably, you will not be.

[hunghung]

You have not clarified the financial cost of this incident.

You clearly will not succeed in your current line of attack. In this particular case NO the journey is not more interesting than the destination - unless you have a lot of time on your hands..

I have a friend who is remarkably dogged when dealing with agencies in the UK and he has been successful in his persistence. With Thais, regrettably, you will not be.

The tour was uncompleted (or, put it differently, was not as described). What pissed me off is that the travel agent intentionally cut corner on my tour so that it could make more money. At least one-third of what was promised wasn't delivered. Since I paid 31,000B for the tour, the "financial cost" would be at least 10,000B. Not much, but the issue is really not the money.

I have lots of time. We shall see how the story develops.

[cardholder]

You have not clarified the financial cost of this incident.

You clearly will not succeed in your current line of attack. In this particular case NO the journey is not more interesting than the destination - unless you have a lot of time on your hands..

I have a friend who is remarkably dogged when dealing with agencies in the UK and he has been successful in his persistence. With Thais, regrettably, you will not be.

The tour was uncompleted (or, put it differently, was not as described). What pissed me off is that the travel agent intentionally cut corner on my tour so that it could make more money. At least one-third of what was promised wasn't delivered. Since I paid 31,000B for the tour, the "financial cost" would be at least 10,000B. Not much, but the issue is really not the money.

I have lots of time. We shall see how the story develops.

Thank you for clarifying.

I understand that your time is not as valuable as the principle here.

Whilst I applaud your motives, I feel that these are out-weighed by the futility of knocking your head against a brick wall with the Thais.

Good luck anyway.

[hunghung]

Just discovered this ombudsman page: http://www.ombudsman.go.th/2008/eng/index1.html. If a Thai government agency doesn't do its job, one can go to the ombudsman for assistance.

[Rumpole]

Just discovered this ombudsman page: http://www.ombudsman.go.th/2008/eng/index1.html. If a Thai government agency doesn't do its job, one can go to the ombudsman for assistance.

And who do you go to when the ombudsman doesn't do his job?

[hunghung]

Just discovered this ombudsman page: http://www.ombudsman...eng/index1.html. If a Thai government agency doesn't do its job, one can go to the ombudsman for assistance.

And who do you go to when the ombudsman doesn't do his job?

Share the information with ppl all over the world. Maybe fewer people/businesses would want to have anything to do with Thailand when they are aware of its "lawlessness". You see ithe effect already without realizing it: How come, say Singapore, is so far more advanced than Thailand when both countries were on almost equal level of development some 50 years ago and Thailand has much, much more resources than Singapore? I believe that had Thailand had a clean government, it would now have been superior to, say Singapore.

[taninthai]

wow 2 1/2 years and the op is still going strong must have time on his hands

good luck but remember tit not the western world:ermm:

[hunghung]

An idea hit me yesterday. I am feeling the story that Mr. Z (the lawyer who accepted my complaint back in 2009) has departed may be just another lie. I have no proof yet, but my feelings are usually right. Here is my train of thought:

1. First, why would a lawyer depart a secure job when the economy is not too robust? Was he fired or his contract over? Not likely. Miss L lied about the warning letter and so she could also lie about Mr. Z’s departure. So I think …

2. The office wants to get rid of my case regardless of its merit.

3. If Mr. Z himself tells me the office has decided to drop the case, he knows I would ask him the reason and also why it has taken him over a year to decide.

4. So Miss L enters the picture. If she tells me the case has been dropped, hopefully, I would just accept the verdict without further question.

It is easy to find out if Mr. Z still works in that office by calling or visiting the office. Should you want to assist me to find that out, please write me a private message.

[hunghung]

Story Update and Translation Help Needed:

I wrote to Dr. N (Director-General, Office of Tourism Development) on July 12 about my experience (I didn't mention this in my previous threads to keep the story short). About 5 weeks later on August 20, I received an email from Mr./Ms. A of Bureau of Tourism Business and Guide Registration, saying he/she was responding to my July 12 letter and asking me for details. I swiftly provided the details and Mr./Ms. A said that he/she would find out the truth about what Miss L did and also handle my complaint against the travel agent.

Despite repeated inquiries, I heard nothing from Mr./Mrs. A . I wrote to Dr. N again on October 12 , but heard nothing. My feeling was that MOTS was trying to cover up the matter and using the (despicable) non-response tactic. On Nov. 8, I wrote to one of the deputy Prime Ministers asking for assistance.

Yesterday (Nov. 25), I received an email from Miss L, with the warning letter to the travel agent attached (I don't know if her response has anything to do with my letter to the deputy PM). Miss L said she found the letter in Mr. Z's file folder (if you recall, Mr. Z was the one who received my complaint in person and Miss L said months ago that he had departed). Of course, I don't believe her story. If there were a warning letter written months ago, it would have been in my complaint file and Miss L wouldn't have told me earlier that she was in the process of writing one.

In any case, the letter is written in Thai, which I have no knowledge of. Can someone please help translate it into English? I see my name on the letter, but I am not sure if it is a generic letter (one that can be used over and over again, making it meaningless) and if it is addressed to the Pattaya travel agent (I don't see the English name of the agent). Please assist. (The letter is in image file. If it were in text file, I could have used Google Translate.)

(Also, I have suspected Mr. Z's departure is a lie, but I am not in a good position to check this out. If you are in Bangkok and speak fluent Thai, you can help by calling/visiting MOTS National Stadium office and asking to talk with this person. Please send me a private message and I'll give the name.)

[random]

are you sure this woman is not from MOTS hence the use of a hotmail account, seems that may the case and she is just hoping you drop everything.