http://notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=823

Female Expat Maintains Positive Self-Image Despite Living in Thailand

32-year-old graphic designer still not trolling Khao San for anonymous couplings with backpackers

Canadian Martha Herkimer has surprised experts and local residents by defying a long-established pattern and successfully maintaining a positive attitude and image of herself while living in Thailand.

Despite several years in a largely male-dominated community that constantly issues unspoken but unmistakable negative evaluations of her appearance and general worth in comparison to local women, Herkimer, who is from London, Ontario, has somehow not internalized such criticisms and avoided the precipitous plunge in self-esteem that most white females experience after moving here.

Herkimer's success in keeping an affirmative mental picture of herself is exceptional as in all other ways her case is typical of the female farang experience.

While friends from Ontario claim that Herkimer was considered "pretty," the 32-year-old graphic designer has been unable to find a boyfriend since moving to Bangkok four years ago.

"I never had a problem finding guys back home," she said. "But here there just aren't that many single guys." In fact, most of her male friends and the men she works with are not in steady relationships, yet none has ever indicated any interest whatsoever in the single white woman.

Remarkably, Herkimer's long nights of solitude while living in a city infamous for its wild nightlife and bustling commercial sex industry have left her soul uncrushed.

Friends say Herkimer has not yet attempted to compensate for her inability to interest farang men by engaging in humiliating episodes of attention-seeking, such as drunkenly removing her shirt and clambering onto the stage of a go-go bar to arrhythmically shift her heavy frame among the stable of bored-but-still-sexy bar girls.

Herkimer, unlike many of her friends, has also not resorted to promiscuity, not slashing her personal standards to accommodate any man who might somehow find her the least bit attractive, and never hunting unsuspecting male tourists in the backpacker districts for intoxicated, careless and regret-laden intercourse.

In fact, Herkimer rarely thinks of the sex she has not enjoyed since she moved here, even though the male foreigners at the web development company she works for often loudly exchange bawdy stories of drug-soaked escapades with prostitutes.

"She seems pretty nice. I don't really know her that well," said Matthew Broadus, 28, who has worked in a cubicle beside Herkimer for two and a half years. "What's her name again?"

But experts caution that Herkimer may be heading for a breakdown. "It's almost inconceivable that she can remain totally unaffected by how poorly her sweaty, hulking figure compares to those of the much more slender and lithe Thai women who surround her," says Dr. Thanawat Tepchai, a clinical psychologist. "I mean, how can she not be sickened by her blotchy face and hairy forearms when everyday she must witness the smooth, faultless skin of the local women that all her male friends date?"

Dr. Thanawat added, "It may be that she is unconsciously suppressing her anguish, which could eventually explode and result in a series of self-destructive acts, such as throwing herself from an upper-story window of an RCA nightclub in front of all her friends."

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Thank you to Chicky Net Phuket for bringing this article to my attention!

What you do you say - it hits a little close to home, in my opinion. Sad, but funny.

Not a very flattering article. In fact it's a bit degrading. There are lots of reasons why a woman (or man) might choose to live in Thailand rather than Canada. It doesn't have to include relationships with the opposite sex. There is no question that the availability of young, attractive Thai woman would elimenate many of the available men who don't want serious relationships. But, any man who has been in Thailand for a while knows that relationships with Thai women often comes with baggage. You don't marry just the woman. You marry the whole family... and any children that might be involved.

I'm not certain why the article was printed other than to re-phrase that tired old stereotype.

Not a very flattering article. In fact it's a bit degrading.

I'm not certain why the article was printed other than to re-phrase that tired old stereotype.

Well it is a from a parody website and on such websites, authors take a grain of truth and exaggerate it.

The reason I thought it amusing was because I have related with many of the points made in that article, but to a far less degree (because it is EXAGGERATED). The article is not meant to be taken seriously. It is a sarcastic article on a parody website.

Sorry if that was not made clearly enough.

hmmmm.....me thinks that the fact that someone reading the article could actually believe that it was a true, legitimate, article kind of says something.

Well, yes, I can see that sub, esp ones who want it to fit their sad stereotypes.

notthenation manages to slam both western men and women all in one article, tho. If I went for sarcastic parody, I guess I could say they hit a home run.

notthenation also enjoys slamming thai people, western men, etc etc. so at least they are an equal opportunity sarcastic commentary.

Not a very flattering article. In fact it's a bit degrading.

I'm not certain why the article was printed other than to re-phrase that tired old stereotype.

Well it is a from a parody website and on such websites, authors take a grain of truth and exaggerate it.

The reason I thought it amusing was because I have related with many of the points made in that article, but to a far less degree (because it is EXAGGERATED). The article is not meant to be taken seriously. It is a sarcastic article on a parody website.

Sorry if that was not made clearly enough.

Sorry, I guess I just missed the parody. I guess it's like "The Onion" news which is all parody.

Not a very flattering article. In fact it's a bit degrading.

I'm not certain why the article was printed other than to re-phrase that tired old stereotype.

Well it is a from a parody website and on such websites, authors take a grain of truth and exaggerate it.

The reason I thought it amusing was because I have related with many of the points made in that article, but to a far less degree (because it is EXAGGERATED). The article is not meant to be taken seriously. It is a sarcastic article on a parody website.

Sorry if that was not made clearly enough.

Sorry, I guess I just missed the parody. I guess it's like "The Onion" news which is all parody.

'the parody" notwithstanding,how about all the western ladies with their thai boyfriends/husbands.whats good for the goose is also good for the gander.

Very subjective and with little value. The article might refer to someone's negative experience. To me they are trying to make her sound like a salmon courageously swimming up the current. I don't usually see sad looking western females around Thailand and I am myself a very happy bunny here whether with a partner or when single. Last night an asian friend of mine suggested that I change my image and become more feminine and thin my hairbrows (which I am proud of by the way). I explained that although I appreciate her suggestions and the way she looks I don't particularly want to look like her. I'm a latin woman and have not had a problem in the romance deparment despite my hairy arms and curvy figure..

The thing that immediately struck me was the similarities to several past threads in this forum...

Edited October 18, 200916 yr by toptuan

The thing that immediately struck me was the similarities to several past threads in this forum...

Dont worry, you are right. But i see similarities to posts/threads which male members have made, rather than female members.

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"Female Expat Maintains Positive Self-Image Despite Living in Thailand"

Gawd, you gotta love that dontcha? "Despite Living in Thailand". I realise (now) that its meant as a parody, but this perception of western women always makes my eyes roll. Yes, many western men in Thailand are attracted to Asian ladies. Of course i already knew that when i came. It wasnt a factor in my choice of being here. Nor do i miss the same extent of male attention, i found it embarrassing in other countries. So it was a welcome relief to be off the radar a bit more. Thats not to say i dont still get male (of different nationalities) attention. But, to be honest, the guys who live here long term are usually retired and make for lovely friends, but not more. I would also be hesitant to date a guy who had spent a long time in the Pattaya/Nana/Cowboy etc scene, because i think for most it seems to warp their perception of women (im generalising here, its just from what ive noticed. Im not saying all). But anyway, like many western women here, there are some lovely Thai men around which steal our hearts. And, just as we westerners are not a "one size fits all", there are many Thai men that dont fall into the stereotype that i read so often about in this forum.

"Canadian Martha Herkimer has surprised experts and local residents by defying a long-established pattern and successfully maintaining a positive attitude and image of herself while living in Thailand".

"Defying"? What, is it the norm for western women to fall apart at the seams here or something?

"...and avoided the precipitous plunge in self-esteem that most white females experience after moving here. "

..another eye-rolling moment.

"Herkimer's success in keeping an affirmative mental picture of herself is exceptional as in all other ways her case is typical of the female farang experience."

..and another one.

"Herkimer, unlike many of her friends, has also not resorted to promiscuity, not slashing her personal standards to accommodate any man who might somehow find her the least bit attractive, and never hunting unsuspecting male tourists in the backpacker districts for intoxicated, careless and regret-laden intercourse."

"unlike many of her friends". Good grief! (Can i get another eye roll?)

"In fact, Herkimer rarely thinks of the sex she has not enjoyed since she moved here, even though the male foreigners at the web development company she works for often loudly exchange bawdy stories of drug-soaked escapades with prostitutes."

Woah. Im not sure how reflective this is of the average male office worker here, but seems pretty disparaging. Even if they were into that scene, i somehow imagined in a work setting that guys would have more decorum. Also, if i was a woman working in the same environment i would hope that my presence as a woman would illicit some manners, as well have a normal fun and respectful working atmosphere with my male colleagues.

"But experts caution that Herkimer may be heading for a breakdown. "It's almost inconceivable that she can remain totally unaffected by how poorly her sweaty, hulking figure compares to those of the much more slender and lithe Thai women who surround her," says Dr. Thanawat Tepchai, a clinical psychologist. "I mean, how can she not be sickened by her blotchy face and hairy forearms when everyday she must witness the smooth, faultless skin of the local women that all her male friends date?""

Parody or not, this is just not funny. Sorry, but thats my opinion. To be perfectly honest, most of the expat women here that i have met have been slim and attractive. Not forgetting witty, fun, and educated. As for the curvier ladies here (and yes i use the word "curvier" because many larger ladies are CURVIER, not FAT. Debate that one if you like! ), I have never seen any i would match that description to. Ive seen larger ladies who look after themselves and certainly dont come close to that description. Of course i have seen sweaty, blotchy skinned westerners around, im not blind! But, usually its tourists that are adjusting to the heat and sun. Its normal! And tbh..ive seen more men that fit that description than women.

"Dr. Thanawat added, "It may be that she is unconsciously suppressing her anguish, which could eventually explode and result in a series of self-destructive acts, such as throwing herself from an upper-story window of an RCA nightclub in front of all her friends."

Actually that got me thinking...has anyone actually read about any women that have tossed themselves out of balconies etc? Ive read it happens a lot in Pattaya, but ive yet to read one that was about a woman!

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Thank you to Chicky Net Phuket for bringing this article to my attention!

What you do you say - it hits a little close to home, in my opinion. Sad, but funny.

Thanks Amyji. Was an interesting read, even though it did provoke a strong response from me. I also didnt realise it was a parody when i first read it so was gob smacked at first read. Much of my reaction is based on that initial response. As sub pointed out, i think many may read this and believe it to be a legitimate article...probably some lame confirmation for those who already hold that assumption about western women in Thailand.

Eyes are rolling right outta my head on this one!

The thing that immediately struck me was the similarities to several past threads in this forum...

Yes, funny that, isn't it toptuan ?

Think you summed it up well Amyji. Enough giveaways in your title, name of the website for it not to be taken seriously, and just as a bit of fun around Sunday lunchtime. Thank you

Actually that got me thinking...has anyone actually read about any women that have tossed themselves out of balconies etc? Ive read it happens a lot in Pattaya, but ive yet to read one that was about a woman!

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Interesting point - can't recall hearing of a foreign lady falling off a balcony. Think the women here are generally "better balanced"

As a single, farang woman living in Thailand - I found the article pointless and mildly amusing - I couldn't see any even vague similarities to the women I know here. I'm certainly not going to bother going into how easy it is for farang women to find men here!

It was VERY obvious the article was a wind-up 'cos it was so ludicrous but even so, I've no doubt the vast majority of farang men here will try to see it as a serious article.

I'm a latin woman and have not had a problem in the romance deparment despite my hairy arms and curvy figure..

excuse moi Ave, but in my opinion Latin women are the most sexy of all. so it doesnt surprise me at all that you have a lot of romance happening. in fact I imagine you have trouble with ermmmm, whats the word Im looking for....in thai we say "rod fai chon kan" = "trains colliding"

I've no doubt the vast majority of farang men here will try to see it as a serious article.

You have a point here, maybe the OP should be classified as trolling as she surely was aware of the fact that all the guys will jump on her

I've no doubt the vast majority of farang men here will try to see it as a serious article.

You have a point here, maybe the OP should be classified as trolling as she surely was aware of the fact that all the guys will jump on her

I'm hesitant to say it, but I agree - the OP is likely to be a troll, but in that case why not post it on the General forum?

What I genuinely can't understand is how the article could even be considered a parody? It bears no resemblance to any female farang here. Let's face it, women don't actually come to Thailand for men - so they must be comfortable in their own skin before moving here.

Amy has been a member of thaivisa since 2003 so hardly think she is a troll.

Amy has been a member of thaivisa since 2003 so hardly think she is a troll.

OK - not a troll - but how on earth can she say "it hits a little close to home"?? I genuinely cannot see how it 'hits home' at all!

I'm a latin woman and have not had a problem in the romance deparment despite my hairy arms and curvy figure..

excuse moi Ave, but in my opinion Latin women are the most sexy of all. so it doesnt surprise me at all that you have a lot of romance happening. in fact I imagine you have trouble with ermmmm, whats the word Im looking for....in thai we say "rod fai chon kan" = "trains colliding"

Merci bucket MiG16.. I had to go for a self-derailment to avoid further collisions..We are a bit too jai rawn for the Thai boys, I must admit, but the passion va-va-vuma is probably what keeps the menage sparkly from beginning to the end..

I have to agree with all of eek's comments. I hate all stereotyping about males or females. Unfortunately, it happens all the time. I only read what was posted and commented on that. I tried to be civil in my reply although my initial reaction would be much harsher. I didn't click on the shortcut to the news article so I had no idea it was an attempt at a parody.

However, I HAVE heard similar remarks from people in North America who have no idea what goes on in Thailand. They only read the tabloid type news items that sensationalize only the nasty stuff. People's perception of Thailand is what they saw in the movie "The Beach".

I just found the article amusing........

Amy has been a member of thaivisa since 2003 so hardly think she is a troll.

OK - not a troll - but how on earth can she say "it hits a little close to home"?? I genuinely cannot see how it 'hits home' at all!

Hi F1fanatic

I wanted to mention two things before I answer your question. I am NOT the author of the article. And Boo is correct, I am not a troll. (thanks for that, Boo!)

I chose to share the link in the Ladies Forum because I have felt and experienced some of the things to a lesser degree that the article mentions. Plus the members of the women only forum where I found the article responded with light-hearted humor - many of them mentioning how they had reacted to, like I have, with similar feelings and situations that the article had mentioned.

Because that was a women's only forum and this is the ThaiVisa Ladies forum, I thought the article - clearly stated in the headline as a parody - would be appreciated by the women on this forum. Guess I was mistaken so I apologize. I will not say I'm sorry though for some foreign women do have a bit more of a diffucult time here than others.

I hope the the Ladies Forum will continue to be a safe haven where we can support one another without fear of condemnation. I just don't want to shy away from issues that can be said to be stereotypical, because I have felt, acutely, some of these things and would like support and solidarity. A

Eek, I did like your breakdown analysis of it. Those were my thoughts on the parody article, more or less, but there were a couple of difficult years for me because I had been a bit lonely, although far from the point of doing anything reckless. Perhaps stuff like this I simply won't share anymore...

Amy - this is still the place for you to express and share those thoughts. please dont shy away or feel pressured into stopping from expressing your thoughts and concerns

i understand it will sometime get frustrating but somehow we just have to put up with some unpleasant remarks.

im going to give fantastic a little bit of levy and assume he 'really' doesnt understand which aspect of the article that some of us women can relate to.

fantastic - Amy has been very clear, and very open, in sharing her thoughts and some very personal matter (to me talking about relationships and our experiences on relationships is a very personal matter). it is something we do with people we trust - albeit even on an anonymous forum. somehow we manage to have that here in the ladies forum.

this is achieved through long term exchanges, and a strict moderation policy. so Im going to ask that everyone maintain a higher level of respect particularly in the ladies forum. certain things may be tolerated more in other sections of the forum. but in the ladies forum I going to be less tolerant of remarks calling troll (unnecessrily) or other inflammatory nature.

cheers

Because that was a women's only forum and this is the ThaiVisa Ladies forum, I thought the article - clearly stated in the headline as a parody - would be appreciated by the women on this forum. Guess I was mistaken so I apologize. I will not say I'm sorry though for some foreign women do have a bit more of a diffucult time here than others.

I hope the the Ladies Forum will continue to be a safe haven where we can support one another without fear of condemnation. I just don't want to shy away from issues that can be said to be stereotypical, because I have felt, acutely, some of these things and would like support and solidarity. A

Eek, I did like your breakdown analysis of it. Those were my thoughts on the parody article, more or less, but there were a couple of difficult years for me because I had been a bit lonely, although far from the point of doing anything reckless. Perhaps stuff like this I simply won't share anymore...

Hi Amy!

I did appreciate that you posted the article. I actually enjoy digging my teeth into something like that. I didnt mean my comments to be a dig in any way at you posting it, just wished to give my own point of view on the article. I also at first didnt notice the parody part (well, duh, its in the title..but um..thats what happens when i dont play close enough attention. ). I also realise that there is some basis of truth, but i think that also depends on how much value a woman gives to the general attentions of men for her self-esteem. I think its important to realise that just because we have moved to a location where western men are likely more interested in the local ladies, doesnt make us any less the same person we were before we left. We are still attractive and desirable, just less of a pool of (western) men who would be interested. Im sure most of us feel the attention once again when we are in other countries with men who are more open in appreciating beauty of all nationalities, as well as being interested beyond the physical. Even in neighbouring countries I feel this more. Many Western men in Thailand seem to switch off more towards western women, even the very attractive ones. I imagine the Asian lady is more to their ideal of beauty, but although i am very attracted to Asian men, im still equally attracted to other nationalities. I guess to each their own. I vibe also seems to be more disparaging to western women more than neighbouring countries. Why that is, im not sure. Although to be honest, more from this forum, than out and about. Maybe they are being more honest through the forum, or maybe they are just being mean. But, doesnt bode thinking about. Just move on and smile.

Amy, I hope you continue to share any findings like this. I think most of us appreciated it. Its good to read something that provokes a reaction and response, gets the brain working and the heart rate up!

Eek, I did like your breakdown analysis of it. Those were my thoughts on the parody article, more or less, but there were a couple of difficult years for me because I had been a bit lonely, although far from the point of doing anything reckless. Perhaps stuff like this I simply won't share anymore...

Oh, something i wish to share regarding being lonely. When i first arrived in Thailand, I actively didnt want to be involved with any man on a personal/intimate level. I had come out of a long term relationship and needed time to just do things on my own. Wanted to be concerned only about myself. I was looking for time alone where i could travel a bit and experience the culture. After about a year, I started to feel a bit of loneliness creeping in. A few months down the line after that I met my bf. So i was lucky. I didnt have too much of a period alone once i felt lonely relationship-wise. However, im quite particular about who i date, it could easily have happened that i could have been without a man in my life. My views may be different had i been actively looking for a decent guy who was interested in me, and not being able to find one. I think also if a western woman is looking for western man here, it may be harder again. I imagine finding a single decent western man of a similar age in Thailand who is interested in western women, would not be an easy feat.

Nor do i miss the same extent of male attention, i found it embarrassing in other countries. So it was a welcome relief to be off the radar a bit more.

With you there, Eek

And I have known a number of Western men who were distinctly uncomfortable with the "attention" they got here. When I worked in the refugee camps many of my western male colleagues (all of them in Thailand, obviously, for professional/humanitarian reasons) would often ask western women to escort them when having to walk around Bangkok just to help deter it. The type of men who actually like it (and by projection might thus assume Western women to be unhappy in Thailand) , I had no contact with until this forum came along!

I have to agree with all of eek's comments. I hate all stereotyping about males or females. Unfortunately, it happens all the time. I only read what was posted and commented on that. I tried to be civil in my reply although my initial reaction would be much harsher. I didn't click on the shortcut to the news article so I had no idea it was an attempt at a parody.

However, I HAVE heard similar remarks from people in North America who have no idea what goes on in Thailand. They only read the tabloid type news items that sensationalize only the nasty stuff. People's perception of Thailand is what they saw in the movie "The Beach".

And is IanForbes the stereotypical sensitive male, posting sensitively in the ladies room? I was going to bite at your response to the OBVIOUS parody but I will let you get on with your floundering flattering.

PS You never heard of notthenation before? Really?

come on ladies, where is your self-mockery? Why take these kind of things and yourself so seriously? Have a laugh!

Personally, I am not a fan of the nastier kinds of humor that make fun of people, doesn't really matter who is being made fun of tbh. Just not my kind of humor.