Undiplomatic Remarks From Foreign Office Mandarins

[churchill]

NICARAGUANS are dishonest alcoholics, the people of Thailand are sex-crazed philistines and Canada is thin on talent, according to confidential dispatches sent by some of Britain’s most eminent ambassadors.

The distinctly undiplomatic remarks have been gleaned from the valedictory letters traditionally sent by Foreign Office mandarins on retirement or as they leave an overseas posting.

Marked “confidential” or “restricted”, the missives were meant to provide an honest insight for the foreign secretary of the day and other senior civil servants.

Although some of the letters are witty, others verge on racism and risk causing offence.

Roger Pinsent, our man in Managua, did not mince his words on his departure from Nicaragua in 1967. “There is, I fear, no question that the average Nicaraguan is one of the most dishonest, unreliable, violent and alcoholic of the Latin Americans,” he wrote.

“The approaches to the towns are squalid to a degree that shocks the visitor from Europe. On arrival we unwittingly caused some offence by inquiring the name of the first village we passed through. It turned out to be the capital city, Managua.”

The Thais came out poorly too, in the eyes of Sir Anthony Rumbold, who served in Bangkok from 1965-67.

“They have no literature, no painting and only a very odd kind of music; their sculpture, ceramics and dancing are borrowed from others, and their architecture is monotonous and interior decoration hideous,” he recalled.

“Nobody can deny that gambling and golf are the chief pleasures of the rich, and that licentiousness is the main pleasure of them all.”

Even our Commonwealth neighbours take a hit. Lord Moran, who ended a 39-year diplomatic career in 1984 as high commissioner to Ottawa, summed up Canada with a dismissive tone.

“One does not encounter here the ferocious competition of talent that takes place in the United Kingdom,” he wrote.

“Anyone who is even moderately good at what they do — in literature, the theatre, skiing or whatever — tends to become a national figure. And anyone who stands out at all from the crowd tends to be praised to the skies and given the Order of Canada at once.”

Sir David Hunt, the high commissioner to Nigeria, claimed in 1969 that the country’s inhabitants had “a maddening habit of always choosing the course of action which will do the maximum damage to their own interests”.

He continued: “They are also not singular in this. Africans as a whole are not only not averse to cutting off their nose to spite their face; they regard such an operation as a triumph of cosmetic surgery.”

After his retirement, Hunt went on to win the BBC Mastermind title in 1977 and its Champion of Champions tournament five years later.

The letters have been unearthed by BBC Radio 4 using Freedom of Information rules and at the National Archives. They will be broadcast in a new series, Parting Shots, which starts on Tuesday morning.

The centuries-old tradition of allowing diplomats to speak their mind ended abruptly three years ago when the final letter of Sir Ivor Roberts, our man in Rome, was leaked to the press.

Roberts described a Foreign Office under siege from management consultants, efficiency drives and Wall Street business-speak mumbo jumbo.

Sir David Gore-Booth, the son of a diplomat, also cocked a snook at the Foreign Office when he left India in 1998. “One of the great failures of the diplomatic service has been its inability to cast off its image as bowler-hatted, pin-striped and chinless with a fondness for champagne,” he wrote.

Lord Patten, the last governor of Hong Kong, said ending valedictory letters showed “excessive sensitivity by the civil service”. Patten added: “They should have welcomed the chance of having a real discussion over whether they were actually losing something vital by insisting that ambassadors now spend most of their time ticking management consultant boxes.”

Sir Christopher Meyer, who served as ambassador to Washington in 1997-2003, made public many of his own views by publishing his memoirs. “It is not an ambassador’s job to tell people what they want to hear,” he said. “On the contrary, it’s to tell the truth as they see it.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle6879550.ece

[PeaceBlondie]

And what do UK diplomats say about their own staffs? Probably derogatory, as well. Speaking of Thaksin's favorite banana republic, Nicaragua, Anthony Lake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Lake wrote in Somoza Falling that the lesser embassies were often staffed by third-rate graduates of lesser universities.

[jayboy]

The Thais came out poorly too, in the eyes of Sir Anthony Rumbold, who served in Bangkok from 1965-67.

“They have no literature, no painting and only a very odd kind of music; their sculpture, ceramics and dancing are borrowed from others, and their architecture is monotonous and interior decoration hideous,” he recalled.

“Nobody can deny that gambling and golf are the chief pleasures of the rich, and that licentiousness is the main pleasure of them all.”

That is just so untrue.What possibly could have led a British Ambassador to make such ignorant comments?

[TheWalkingMan]

I learned a new word today! licentiousness

Main Entry: li·cen·tious

Pronunciation: \lī-ˈsen(t)-shəs\

Function: adjective

Etymology: Latin licentiosus, from licentia

Date: 1535

1 : lacking legal or moral restraints; especially : disregarding sexual restraints

2 : marked by disregard for strict rules of correctness

— li·cen·tious·ly adverb

— li·cen·tious·ness noun

The licentiousness of the students on spring break was mind boggling.

TheWalkingMan

[loong]

The Thais came out poorly too, in the eyes of Sir Anthony Rumbold, who served in Bangkok from 1965-67.

"They have no literature, no painting and only a very odd kind of music; their sculpture, ceramics and dancing are borrowed from others, and their architecture is monotonous and interior decoration hideous," he recalled.

"Nobody can deny that gambling and golf are the chief pleasures of the rich, and that licentiousness is the main pleasure of them all."

That is just so untrue.What possibly could have led a British Ambassador to make such ignorant comments?

Did you rub shoulders with the rich in Thailand from 1965 to 1967? Were you living in Thailand during that period. If not, then you have no grounds to contradict. If so, please give us your impression of the Thais in the 1960's.

[egg]

The Thais came out poorly too, in the eyes of Sir Anthony Rumbold, who served in Bangkok from 1965-67.

“They have no literature, no painting and only a very odd kind of music; their sculpture, ceramics and dancing are borrowed from others, and their architecture is monotonous and interior decoration hideous,” he recalled.

“Nobody can deny that gambling and golf are the chief pleasures of the rich, and that licentiousness is the main pleasure of them all.”

That is just so untrue.What possibly could have led a British Ambassador to make such ignorant comments?

"ignorance" ,,,, and most people that make remarks like that walk around with their head up where they think the sun shines

cheers

[DP25]

The Thais came out poorly too, in the eyes of Sir Anthony Rumbold, who served in Bangkok from 1965-67.

“They have no literature, no painting and only a very odd kind of music; their sculpture, ceramics and dancing are borrowed from others, and their architecture is monotonous and interior decoration hideous,” he recalled.

“Nobody can deny that gambling and golf are the chief pleasures of the rich, and that licentiousness is the main pleasure of them all.”

That is just so untrue.What possibly could have led a British Ambassador to make such ignorant comments?

That's no different at all than the comments you'd hear from your average expat in Soi Cowboy

[Ulysses G.]

If the shoe fits...!

[astral]

What a shame that these short-sighted, ignorant people do not even bother to scratch the surface

of the cultures they are assigned to.

I expect more from the peope who represent my country overseas.

[loong]

The Thais came out poorly too, in the eyes of Sir Anthony Rumbold, who served in Bangkok from 1965-67.

"They have no literature, no painting and only a very odd kind of music; their sculpture, ceramics and dancing are borrowed from others, and their architecture is monotonous and interior decoration hideous," he recalled.

"Nobody can deny that gambling and golf are the chief pleasures of the rich, and that licentiousness is the main pleasure of them all."

That is just so untrue.What possibly could have led a British Ambassador to make such ignorant comments?

"ignorance" ,,,, and most people that make remarks like that walk around with their head up where they think the sun shines

cheers

Who are you accusing of ignorance? Sir Anthony Rumbold or Jayboy?

Looking at your profile, you are 57 years old, so in 1965 you were 13. There's a good chance that when you were 13, you were totally ignorant what life was like in Thailand, so you are not equipped with the knowledge to judge Sir Anthony Rumbold as ignorant. I can only assume that you are calling Jayboy ignorant.

[slapout]

The referenced comments, vs the track record of the countries mentioned, do seem to have a ring of truth to them. Having had business dealing with the governments (politicians) and private sector in 2 of the 3, and close neighbors of the third, I have heard similar and possibly worse comments from the politicians/business citizens themselves.

[Ulysses G.]

What a shame that these short-sighted, ignorant people do not even bother to scratch the surface

of the cultures they are assigned to.

If only they had the benefits of all the insights on Thai Visa. com

[onnut]

I am very undiplomatic, do you think I could get a job as a diplomat for my country?

[chiang mai]

Talking of being undiplomatic, have to agree I'm afraid, but only by comparison:

"The Thais came out poorly too, in the eyes of Sir Anthony Rumbold, who served in Bangkok from 1965-67.

“They have no literature, no painting and only a very odd kind of music; their sculpture, ceramics and dancing are borrowed from others, and their architecture is monotonous and interior decoration hideous,” he recalled".

[toptuan]

Interesting to see how the "colonial mentality" extended well beyond the Empire's colonial days...

[Dakhar]

interior decoration hideous

Just because the typical Thai house has no rooms, no deviding walls, and one could park 2-3 cars in it does not make it hideous.

Barren, lacking in design, lacking in taste, boring, yes, but hideous.... Ok maybe hideous

[caf]

The Thais came out poorly too, in the eyes of Sir Anthony Rumbold, who served in Bangkok from 1965-67.

"They have no literature, no painting and only a very odd kind of music; their sculpture, ceramics and dancing are borrowed from others, and their architecture is monotonous and interior decoration hideous," he recalled.

"Nobody can deny that gambling and golf are the chief pleasures of the rich, and that licentiousness is the main pleasure of them all."

That is just so untrue.What possibly could have led a British Ambassador to make such ignorant comments?

"ignorance" ,,,, and most people that make remarks like that walk around with their head up where they think the sun shines

cheers

Give us a list of their literature then, o wise one. I think you would find it difficult to disgaree with the ambassador's observations if you had to use facts to support your case..

[KhaoNiaw]

The Thais came out poorly too, in the eyes of Sir Anthony Rumbold, who served in Bangkok from 1965-67.

"They have no literature, no painting and only a very odd kind of music; their sculpture, ceramics and dancing are borrowed from others, and their architecture is monotonous and interior decoration hideous," he recalled.

"Nobody can deny that gambling and golf are the chief pleasures of the rich, and that licentiousness is the main pleasure of them all."

That is just so untrue.What possibly could have led a British Ambassador to make such ignorant comments?

Did you rub shoulders with the rich in Thailand from 1965 to 1967? Were you living in Thailand during that period. If not, then you have no grounds to contradict. If so, please give us your impression of the Thais in the 1960's.

Whhhooooooooooooosssssshhhhhh

Edited October 18, 2009 by KhaoNiaw

[lectito]

It's worth keeping in mind that these comments were written at the end of his posting here, which was 1965-1967. At that stage the Vietnam War was in full swing; with soldiers using Thailand for R&R. That may have influenced his perceptions of Thailand somewhat.

[chiang mai]

Interesting to see how the "colonial mentality" extended well beyond the Empire's colonial days...

I did state, "only by comparison", I don't think people would begin to compare say French or English literature or architecture with much of what the average person might find in Thailand, especially if that was what they were weened on. On that basis I think the good gentleman's opinion was probably entirely valid although he might have better qualified it. And just as an aside, a great big bollux on your colonial mentality statement, the OP statement is about a comparison of environments although as already stated, not put particularly well and I think you know that!

Edited October 18, 2009 by chiang mai

[bangkokrick]

After his retirement, Hunt went on to win the BBC Mastermind title in 1977 and its Champion of Champions tournament five years later.

Not going to Argue with a guy that can do this.

He is hardly an idiot.

Cheers, Rick

[Ulysses G.]

It's worth keeping in mind that these comments were written at the end of his posting here, which was 1965-1967. At that stage the Vietnam War was in full swing; with soldiers using Thailand for R&R. That may have influenced his perceptions of Thailand somewhat.

I'm sure that he would regret his remarks now!

[Jingthing]

There are some grains of truths in the quotes. For example, Thai literature. This isn't a culture that has a long tradition of literary culture. If you are coming from a culture that values that, it is only natural to make an unfavorable observation.

[samuibeachcomber]

Interesting to see how the "colonial mentality" extended well beyond the Empire's colonial days...

I would gues these comments are typically british,a class thing,stuck up and they think they are so superior

[bangkokrick]

Interesting to see how the "colonial mentality" extended well beyond the Empire's colonial days...

I would gues these comments are typically british,a class thing,stuck up and they think they are so superior

You obviously never had an Empire.

Cheers, rick

[samuibeachcomber]

Interesting to see how the "colonial mentality" extended well beyond the Empire's colonial days...

I would gues these comments are typically british,a class thing,stuck up and they think they are so superior

You obviously never had an Empire.

Cheers, rick

obviously not,but is that a good excuse

[bangkokrick]

Interesting to see how the "colonial mentality" extended well beyond the Empire's colonial days...

I would gues these comments are typically british,a class thing,stuck up and they think they are so superior

You obviously never had an Empire.

Cheers, rick

obviously not,but is that a good excuse

For envy!

[samuibeachcomber]

"for envy" what is there to envy? i am from the UK but i cannot stand these types of people who think they are so superior to all others and belittle other countries.monty python used to lampoon them very well "upper class twit of the year" skit comes to mind.

[chiang mai]

Interesting to see how the "colonial mentality" extended well beyond the Empire's colonial days...

I would gues these comments are typically british,a class thing,stuck up and they think they are so superior

Just because we don't wear loud Hawaiian shirts and speak many decibels higher than anyone else on the planet in public, doesn't mean that we think we're superior.

[samuibeachcomber]

Interesting to see how the "colonial mentality" extended well beyond the Empire's colonial days...

I would gues these comments are typically british,a class thing,stuck up and they think they are so superior

Just because we don't wear loud Hawaiian shirts and speak many decibels higher than anyone else on the planet in public, doesn't mean that we think we're superior.

and it would n't be because of the shaved head,singlet and tattoos by any chance