Short Changed By Atm Machine

[vagabond48]

Has anyone had to deal with getting money credited back to their account that when an ATM machine malfunctioned and the money was deducted from their account?

I use ATM machines about 3 times a month (my choice for now, I know there are other methods to get money) and for the 1st 2 years I have lived in Thailand, I never had a machine problem. This year, I have had already 3 problems. Twice at 2 different banks, the ATM machines shorted me by 500 baht. Since I use my debit card at bank branches during banking hours, I was able, with some difficulty, to convince them to give me my money back after 20 to 30 minutes. The 1st thing they seem to say is that I need to contact my bank which I was able to argue against successfully. Yesterday, I was at an Aeon machine to get some money. The process was taking longer than usual and I finally got a message which said there was a "nondescript" problem and that I need to contact my bank. Needless to say, the machine did not give me the money I requested nor a receipt. I went home and checked my account online and found that the money I didn't receive was deducted from my account. I went back to the Aeon location to speak to someone. Since no one spoke any decent English, they connected me by phone with a Thai rep who could not tell me what the problem was and like a "broken record" kept saying that I had to call my bank while I kept on insisting (like a broken record as well) that I speak to a supervisor or manager. After being on the phone for 30 minutes, I spoke to a Japanese rep who was either better trained or had more access to information and told me that error message listed said that my transaction timed out. He too said that they could not give me my money I am owed and that I need to contact my bank.

Edit: Grammar

[KunMatt]

Nope, never. In all of my travels all around Asia this has never happened to me. However in the last 6 months, and this has only ever happened to me in Thailand, I have had an ATM machine die on me on 3 occasions as I was half way through my transaction, i.e. a complete power down which has left me standing there wondering if how much my account is draining and if I will ever see my bank card again, but I never lost anything from it each time.

Just feel lucky that what has happened to you happened in a developing country but you still didnt lose anything. In some places you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if you claimed the money machine didn't give you all the money it should.

[Fatdog]

This happened to me in Singapore last December, put the card in the ATM, it went through the process and at the end said that it had timed out. The money was taken from my account but I never got it from the ATM

I contacted my bank the next day, as I was at OT at the time, my bank sent me some forms by e-mail. I filled them out and sent them back and the money was back in my account the next day.

No point dealing with the local bank as they cannot do anything, your own bank are the only people who can help.

FD

[edwinclapham]

Has anyone had to deal with getting money credited back to their account that when an ATM machine malfunctioned and the money was deducted from their account?

I use ATM machines about 3 times a month (my choice for now, I know there are other methods to get money) and for the 1st 2 years I have lived in Thailand, I never had a machine problem. This year, I have had already 3 problems. Twice at 2 different banks, the ATM machines shorted me by 500 baht. Since I use my debit card at bank branches during banking hours, I was able, with some difficulty, to convince them to give me my money back after 20 to 30 minutes. The 1st thing they seem to say is that I need to contact my bank which I was able to argue against successfully. Yesterday, I was at an Aeon machine to get some money. The process was taking longer than usual and I finally got a message which said there was a "nondescript" problem and that I need to contact my bank. Needless to say, the machine did not give me the money I requested nor a receipt. I went home and checked my account online and found that the money I didn't receive was deducted from my account. I went back to the Aeon location to speak to someone. Since no one spoke any decent English, they connected me by phone with a Thai rep who could not tell me what the problem was and like a "broken record" kept saying that I had to call my bank while I kept on insisting (like a broken record as well) that I speak to a supervisor or manager. After being on the phone for 30 minutes, I spoke to a Japanese rep who was either better trained or had more access to information and told me that error message listed said that my transaction timed out. He too said that they could not give me my money I am owed and that I need to contact my bank.

Edit: Grammar

Happened to me down in Trat, the ATM was situated at bottom of stairs to bank, requested 6000 B and nothing came out, eventually tackled staff upstairs, (Bangkok Bank) it took 3 weeks to sort out and money came back from Head Office. Never again!

[Tim207]

Has anyone had to deal with getting money credited back to their account that when an ATM machine malfunctioned and the money was deducted from their account?

In 10 years I have never had a problem,

UNTIL I READ THIS MESSAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Within 5 minutes of reading this I got a call from the Ex. She was trying to take out the money for our daughters health insurance and she got the dreaded "you must contact your bank" message. I immediately called the bank and after 10 minutes on hold I was told that a transaction had gone through for the correct amount. I told them we didn't get any money so they started the dispute process. After hanging up with the bank I called the ex only to find out that she went to another ATM while I was talking to the bank and the card worked there. Now I don't know if the there were two transaction debited with one to dispute or just the one successful transaction that showed up. I will have to check tomorrow to see what happened and if I will have to dispute the failed transaction.

Serves me right for reading this thread.

[Maigo6]

]Happened to me down in Trat, the ATM was situated at bottom of stairs to bank, requested 6000 B and nothing came out, eventually tackled staff upstairs, (Bangkok Bank) it took 3 weeks to sort out and money came back from Head Office. Never again!

You would never use an ATM again ?

I don't use ATM's a lot, but I cannot ever recall being short changed by one in Thailand or any other country.

[JohnC]

Yes happened to me recently, I called the bank (ayhudahi) they said I had to contact my own bank who then wanted a fax of the details i.e Owner of ATM, location, time of attempted withdrawal. Did all this and was refunded within seven days.

[mizzi39]

quote:

Has anyone had to deal with getting money credited back to their account that when an ATM machine malfunctioned and the money was deducted from their account?

Yes, It actually happened to me about 3 weeks ago from Krung Thai Bank. I was attempting to withdraw money from an ATM at Big C. The machine kept "spinning" like it was going to dispense money and then my card spit out and a message came up on the screen stating that the machine was "temporally out of order" or something to that effect. When I checked my balance i was 5,000 baht shy.

I went to the main branch and filled out a form with the help of this nice Thai lady. Called my bank in the States and reported what happened, waited 3 days and my account was credited, so mai pben rai!

Remember, it is an ATM, a machine!!! Machines do malfunction from time to time. Once they audit that specific ATM machine (which they do every morning) and they find out that its balance is over what it should be, the problem is easy to rectify. A minor inconvenience as far as I am concerned, and nothing to overly stress about.

[vagabond48]

My bank says I have to fill out a form and must mail it back to them, but said I could also fax the form 1st to get the process started. They told me it takes 3 to 4 weeks to get the money back. I hope that is just the standard answer and that it will take a shorter time.

Edit: correction

[longball53098]

ATM's are modern machines that when they work properly are great. The average up time for an ATM is in the range of 99.6 percent or higher. They are mechanical/electronic marvels that we have come to rely on and hate at the same time.

After all these are machines and they do fail from time to time. the service staff are people that also fail from time to time.

All banks have specific procedures in place for balancing the machines and rectifying out of balance issues. Some may take a day and some may take many days. In most cases the branch staff do not have access to the ATMs on there site and only service people have the codes and combos. But this also depends on the bank that owns and operates that machine

Sh*t happens from time to time and we have to live with it. No one likes the Sh*t when it happens to them but what can you do? If you get angry and the blood pressure hits the top of the chart then you are the one suffering. It will work itself out.There is no great ATM conspiracy out there where the machines are all trying to screw you out of you're money.

[vagabond48]

Sh*t happens from time to time and we have to live with it. It will work itself out. There is no great ATM conspiracy out there where the machines are all trying to screw you out of you're money.

No conspiracy implied. Since I had no incidents in my 1st 2 years here and now 3 this year alone, I was wondering if failures are happening more frequently in the LOS, possibly due to aging machines, poor machine maintenance and of course, less the excellent communication links to the outside world.

[Maigo6]

I was wondering if failures are happening more frequently in the LOS, possibly due to aging machines, poor machine maintenance and of course, less the excellent communication links to the outside world.

Jeez mate, you're in Thailand, not on some distant planet 29 Light years away !

[vagabond48]

I was wondering if failures are happening more frequently in the LOS, possibly due to aging machines, poor machine maintenance and of course, less the excellent communication links to the outside world.

Jeez mate, you're in Thailand, not on some distant planet 29 Light years away !

Beg to differ since, every moment living in LOS is an "out of this world" experience for me.

[Maigo6]

I was wondering if failures are happening more frequently in the LOS, possibly due to aging machines, poor machine maintenance and of course, less the excellent communication links to the outside world.

Jeez mate, you're in Thailand, not on some distant planet 29 Light years away !

Beg to differ since, every moment living in LOS is an "out of this world" experience for me.

lol................

Too right.

[longball53098]

Sh*t happens from time to time and we have to live with it. It will work itself out. There is no great ATM conspiracy out there where the machines are all trying to screw you out of you're money.

No conspiracy implied. Since I had no incidents in my 1st 2 years here and now 3 this year alone, I was wondering if failures are happening more frequently in the LOS, possibly due to aging machines, poor machine maintenance and of course, less the excellent communication links to the outside world.

Sorry I did not mean that you specifically were implying any conspiracy but I know others were already thinking it.

If the 3 experiences this year were at the same location and the issues were the same or similar then maybe this one machine is having it's problems and the tech can't seem to get it fixed right. But if its from 3 different machines then maybe you are living under a rain cloud this year.

[Heng]

Twice in about 13 years. Once 1,000 over and 1,000 Baht under. 2 errors in about 3,000 transactions. Broke even so to speak but not sure how that compares to atm error rates, is 1 in 1,500 high or low?

[SurfRider]

.

A couple of years ago in Pattaya there was one particular bank where the ATM dispensed the cash, but quickly swallowed it before the patron could grab it.

Three incidents were reported to the branch manager -- his considerate accommodating response was "File a Police Report"

One of the victims managed to get a local TV news station to do a report on it with video in front of the bank of the victim telling his story to the camera. ( they must have bumped the daily motorbike accident slaughter segment to do this story )

The branch manager was finally compelled to provide an excuse that allowed the bank to save face. He said it was an older model ATM in an area that was not well lighted at night and the cash was dispensed much lower from the machine than the newer ATMs, so the customer simply didn't see the cash and it was retrieved for security purposes.

No mention of reconciling the transactions of the ATM for that day to see if cash balance supported the claims. The three victims were told to resolve the matter through their bank in their home country ( TiT )

In another incident, a friend had just received some cash from a GSB ATM and took a few seconds after the transaction to chat with a friend. When he turned to retrieve his card, the machine had swallowed it.

It took several days and two visits to two banks accompanied by a Thai interpreter to retrieve the card, but he said they were very polite about it.

I guess the moral of the story is: Pay VERY close attention, grab the cash and card as quickly as possible and run as fast as you can

.

[kyb789]

Once in the U.S the ATM shorted me $20US. For some reason I didn't want to hassle with it and there was no one around at the time of night. To my surprise, a week later the money was credited back to my account. Glad to see someone was paying attention.

[JimGant]

Why even use a 'foreign' ATM machine? Using the one attached to your local bank, where you know the manager and/or staff, should rectify any problems with 'card eating' or erroneous cash dispersal.

And take max chunks at a time. This will limit frequency -- and absorb better the 150 baht hit (which, for some, apparently could be avoided by a counter visit instead).

Sure, this may mean returning to home plate to lock up excess cash. Maybe a little inconvenient for some -- but not when compared to some strange shopping mall ATM stealing your card or cash.

And to wander throughout life, near penniless from strange ATM machine to strange ATM machine, means you're certainly going to encounter a problem or two at some point. One not easily corrected.

If your quest is for an AEON machine, to save 150 baht -- well, no doubt they're all wearing out now due to too much exposure on Thaivisa.

[vagabond48]

If your quest is for an AEON machine, to save 150 baht -- well, no doubt they're all wearing out now due to too much exposure on Thaivisa.

I doubt that. Considering the number of full and part time expats living in Thailand, very few visit TV. I suspect only a limited number read these types of threads and a some that do don't mind paying the extra 150b. I for one do presently use ATMs, and even though I have several fee free debit cards, I want to avoid the fees. That being said, if there is an increased rise in malfunctioning machines, I will begin doing teller counter withdrawals.

[vagabond48]

Once in the U.S the ATM shorted me $20US. For some reason I didn't want to hassle with it and there was no one around at the time of night. To my surprise, a week later the money was credited back to my account. Glad to see someone was paying attention.

Interesting. I wonder how much money banks make when machines dispense less than was deducted from bank accounts when customers, especially tourists, don't bother going through the hassle of trying to recoup a credit. As I wrote, l was short changed twice, each for "only" 500b. I suspect a lot of people would have just shrugged off the loss.

[longball53098]

If you don't pursue the shortage its your problem. Most banks must balance to the penny. Don't know about Thai banks but I would believe they also have balancing rules and regulations and auditors. They are not in business to cheat and short change the users. You may think and believe the opposite though. The machines are quite accurate in dispensing the notes and rarely make an error picking and counting the notes. The error is most likely human. The person loading the note cassettes or some other operation when re-filling a machine.

[JimGant]

If your quest is for an AEON machine, to save 150 baht -- well, no doubt they're all wearing out now due to too much exposure on Thaivisa.

I doubt that. Considering the number of full and part time expats living in Thailand, very few visit TV. I suspect only a limited number read these types of threads and a some that do don't mind paying the extra 150b. I for one do presently use ATMs, and even though I have several fee free debit cards, I want to avoid the fees. That being said, if there is an increased rise in malfunctioning machines, I will begin doing teller counter withdrawals.

That's a joke, son. In the frantic search for the last ATM machine in Thailand that is 'fee-free,' AEON has become the metaphor for this quest. The time and cost to find that AEON machine -- that may steal your card and money in a remote part of town -- ain't worth it.

[vagabond48]

If you don't pursue the shortage its your problem. Most banks must balance to the penny. Don't know about Thai banks but I would believe they also have balancing rules and regulations and auditors. They are not in business to cheat and short change the users. You may think and believe the opposite though. The machines are quite accurate in dispensing the notes and rarely make an error picking and counting the notes. The error is most likely human. The person loading the note cassettes or some other operation when re-filling a machine.

A bit defensive. Are you, were you a banker?

I wasn't implying that they are intentional cheating, unless they intentionally don't maintain or upgrade their machines, and make it very difficult to get a credit back. I still ask, if banks find that they have a surplus of cash due to machine malfunction, what do they do with the money if the money is not requested back or the request for the credit is denied?

Btw, in my case, the machine deducted my account but did not dispense any money. It seems to me that in such a case, a procedure should be in place by the bank machine owner to credit an ATM user within 1 to 2 days and not have the customer go through time consuming hoops. Perhaps USA, European and Japanese banks do this already.

[vagabond48]

If your quest is for an AEON machine, to save 150 baht -- well, no doubt they're all wearing out now due to too much exposure on Thaivisa.

I doubt that. Considering the number of full and part time expats living in Thailand, very few visit TV. I suspect only a limited number read these types of threads and a some that do don't mind paying the extra 150b. I for one do presently use ATMs, and even though I have several fee free debit cards, I want to avoid the fees. That being said, if there is an increased rise in malfunctioning machines, I will begin doing teller counter withdrawals.

That's a joke, son. In the frantic search for the last ATM machine in Thailand that is 'fee-free,' AEON has become the metaphor for this quest. The time and cost to find that AEON machine -- that may steal your card and money in a remote part of town -- ain't worth it.

Dad, what does your reply have to do with my above reply? Stay focused, now.

[longball53098]

If you don't pursue the shortage its your problem. Most banks must balance to the penny. Don't know about Thai banks but I would believe they also have balancing rules and regulations and auditors. They are not in business to cheat and short change the users. You may think and believe the opposite though. The machines are quite accurate in dispensing the notes and rarely make an error picking and counting the notes. The error is most likely human. The person loading the note cassettes or some other operation when re-filling a machine.

A bit defensive. Are you, were you a banker?

I wasn't implying that they are intentional cheating, unless they intentionally don't maintain or upgrade their machines, and make it very difficult to get a credit back. I still ask, if banks find that they have a surplus of cash due to machine malfunction, what do they do with the money if the money is not requested back or the request for the credit is denied?

Btw, in my case, the machine deducted my account but did not dispense any money. It seems to me that in such a case, a procedure should be in place by the bank machine owner to credit an ATM user within 1 to 2 days and not have the customer go through time consuming hoops. Perhaps USA, European and Japanese banks do this already.

No I do not work for bank or ever did in my working life. But close as I worked for a major manufacturer of the dispenser mechanisms in over 50 % of the worlds ATMs. We also serviced ATMs for various banks in the world so we had a close relationship with the banks and the procedures involved to track down errors if the bank could not figure out what happened. Now retired and living on the money we took from also those shortages(HAHAHAH).

[Tim207]

Btw, in my case, the machine deducted my account but did not dispense any money. It seems to me that in such a case, a procedure should be in place by the bank machine owner to credit an ATM user within 1 to 2 days and not have the customer go through time consuming hoops. Perhaps USA, European and Japanese banks do this already.

The procedure at my US bank was they give me a form and a few days after I submit the form my account is credited with the missing money. They start an investigation and if they decide there was an error they close the case. If they find there was no error they notify me that the money will be debited from my account (they take their money back). Happily, the problem I had with the Thai ATM was resolved before I filled out the form sent to me but I am also glad that I now know the procedure if I have a problem in the future.

[vagabond48]

No I do not work for bank or ever did in my working life. But close as I worked for a major manufacturer of the dispenser mechanisms in over 50 % of the worlds ATMs. We also serviced ATMs for various banks in the world so we had a close relationship with the banks and the procedures involved to track down errors if the bank could not figure out what happened. Now retired and living on the money we took from also those shortages(HAHAHAH).

So we have finally uncovered the dispenser connection.

If you play longball with us and help us prosecute your cohorts, you can serve out your lifetime sentence in LOS.

Touche. 5555

[SurfRider]

.

"I will begin doing teller counter withdrawals"

It will be interesting to see if people doing in-bank counter transactions will report the specific exchange rate that they received.

I've noticed in other threads-- on the rare occasion when people post about counter transactions, they say things like "I got the best rate", or "I got the IER", or "I got the same as the ATM rate", but they never specify the actual exchange rate and it is unknown what reference rate they were using ( if any ) to justify their comments or if they're just blowing smoke.

It has been pretty much established in what is probably the longest running thread on the Internet "Thai-Banks-Start-Charging-Atm- . . ." that x-rates.com provides the best reference rate and is closest to the actual International Exchange Rate (IER). Many Thai Bank websites report other varying, conflicting, and confusing rates.

In the interest of finally determining the difference between the already established lowest cost standard in most cases: The ATM Debit Card rate vs. whatever the various bank's counter-transaction rates are, hopefully people will post the rate based on data that their on-line access reports for the transaction.

http://www.x-rates.com/d/THB/USD/data120.html

.

[JimGant]

Dad, what does your reply have to do with my above reply?

Uh, possibly I should have said 'facetious' rather than joke. Or did you really think I believe AEON machines are wearing out due to Thaivisa members?

"It's a joke, son" is a comedy from 1947, turned into later phraseology.

Lighten up, sir