Poor People Seem Happier In Los

[Dakhar]

Herpes?

[Maigo6]

Maybe you need to do some more research on finances before you pop off with incorrect comments about something you know nothing about.

Oh dear...........

[Dakhar]

your friend has not factored in inflation.

Jobs get cut before dividends do. Dividends get raised before pay raises do. Dividends get taxed more favorably then work income does, especially in Canada. hel_l, just look at all the money printing going on, the first thing to benefit from inflation is gold and stock prices.

Maybe you need to do some more research on finances before you pop off with incorrect comments about something you know nothing about.

Sure wish I "knew" about investments and things... I just "bank it" work more and hope for the best.

[toptuan]

I live in Thailand's "happiest province," according to the Thai Ministry of Health's study of mental health two years in a row. But oh, you should see the poverty.

Somehow, the Thais here have better grasped a Christian virtue than have Christians in the West....

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes..... Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?"

Luke 12:22-26

[ThailandLovr]

Poor people in the west are generally VERY disgruntled and miserable,

Like many farangs in Thailand are all of the above, and them some ! And many are seen as, and many like to think that, they are well off. If money is a factor in the happiness stakes, why are so many farangs so unhappy ?

Goodness man, in looking at your posting history you've posed that question countless times over the years. Surely you can answer it yourself by now.

[Maigo6]

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes..... Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?"

Luke 12:22-26

So endeth todays sermon.

Has a ring of truth to it though.

Westerners are spoilt, we have been spoilt by our welfare systems, I see some Thai guys who would be classed as poor having a great time under difficult circumstances.

My Father in Law works his ass off, he probably makes 7-8000 baht per month.

Yet he always has a smile on his face.

[TheGoodDoctor]

Maigo is a straight up playa.

[CaptHaddock]

Poor Thais certainly do give the impression of being more cheerful with respect to their limited wealth than Westerners. Rather than philosophy or religion, I have always assumed that it is a result of social pressure. Thai people demand smiles and cheerfulness from each other pretty much no matter what the circumstances.

I remember there was a discussion at the time of the tsunami of why the Thais running from the wave of death had smiles on their faces. To some Westerners the Thais' incongruous expressions suggested that they were seriously out of touch with the danger surrounding them. However, a Thai person explained that the Thais in the photograph were smiling to reassure (Thai) people who might see them that they were all right. Westerners in the act of attempting to flee from death would not give any thought at all to the need for reassurance of others who happened to be watching. The fact that Thais even in such extreme circumstances responded to social expectations in this way tells me that this is a strongly motivating factor in Thai behavior.

[Dakhar]

I live in Thailand's "happiest province," according to the Thai Ministry of Health's study of mental health two years in a row. But oh, you should see the poverty.

Somehow, the Thais here have better grasped a Christian virtue than have Christians in the West....

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes..... Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?"

Luke 12:22-26

Sounds like Bhudist teachings to me.... maybe you go it backwards, on who adopted who's beliefs?

[ThailandLovr]

Poor Thais certainly do give the impression of being more cheerful with respect to their limited wealth than Westerners. Rather than philosophy or religion, I have always assumed that it is a result of social pressure. Thai people demand smiles and cheerfulness from each other pretty much no matter what the circumstances.

I remember there was a discussion at the time of the tsunami of why the Thais running from the wave of death had smiles on their faces. To some Westerners the Thais' incongruous expressions suggested that they were seriously out of touch with the danger surrounding them. However, a Thai person explained that the Thais in the photograph were smiling to reassure (Thai) people who might see them that they were all right. Westerners in the act of attempting to flee from death would not give any thought at all to the need for reassurance of others who happened to be watching. The fact that Thais even in such extreme circumstances responded to social expectations in this way tells me that this is a strongly motivating factor in Thai behavior.

Interesting points. I continue to learn and try to benefit from observation of Thai culture.

Edited October 22, 2009 by ThailandLovr

[Heng]

The large Thai Muslim population has taken XXX hundred years to get their revolution thing going, and hardly in effective style either.

Its not a really a Muslim revolution is it? I also figured it was just drug lords trying to gain full control over that tiny little strip of land that can be used to transport drugs from Cambodia and Vietnam west.

Yeah, I didn't mention their goals (nor am I even aware of what they really want), I am just referring to the demographic identity of the folks rocking their leaky beat up part of the boat.

[Heng]

One thing for sure, and I'm sure it's not a popular notion... is at the opposite end of the spectrum, the well to do have a really nice/comfy/smooth ride here.

Crikey Heng, the people in the middle have a pretty comfy ride, as do their foreign ex-pat peers who populate these boards. As long as they keep out of debt, middle class Thais can have maids, drivers, and mia nois.

Crikey Johpa, that means you might very well be surrounded by millions of neo-sahibs!

[Heng]

I remember there was a discussion at the time of the tsunami of why the Thais running from the wave of death had smiles on their faces. To some Westerners the Thais' incongruous expressions suggested that they were seriously out of touch with the danger surrounding them. However, a Thai person explained that the Thais in the photograph were smiling to reassure (Thai) people who might see them that they were all right.

Actually they were probably thinking 'those dorks running from the bulls -and often smiling in process- in Pamplona are pansies.'

[Heng]

your friend has not factored in inflation.

Jobs get cut before dividends do. Dividends get raised before pay raises do. Dividends get taxed more favorably then work income does, especially in Canada. hel_l, just look at all the money printing going on, the first thing to benefit from inflation is gold and stock prices.

Maybe you need to do some more research on finances before you pop off with incorrect comments about something you know nothing about.

Without capital growth, it is possible that he might be 'poor' in the future, and perhaps not, and inflation is just one marble in the bag. Could be a 350k property in a building with a 80 year shelf life paying him $1800 a month in rent. Okay for now, but his grandchildren might have a slight ball of twine to deal with. Could be shares that can go any which direction. Could be cash that pays him modest interest but is institution based risk instead of market risk. My favorite.

Plenty of folks who invested XXXk ended up with zero. Some end up with a lot more.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Heng

[cognos]

Poor people in the west are generally VERY disgruntled and miserable,

Like many farangs in Thailand are all of the above, and them some ! And many are seen as, and many like to think that, they are well off. If money is a factor in the happiness stakes, why are so many farangs so unhappy ?

they may be unhappy because they are not receiving what they desire, whether it is money, the right women, peace of mind, etc..

[cognos]

I live in Thailand's "happiest province," according to the Thai Ministry of Health's study of mental health two years in a row. But oh, you should see the poverty.

Somehow, the Thais here have better grasped a Christian virtue than have Christians in the West....

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes..... Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?"

Luke 12:22-26

re: "..better grasped.."the pastor at the small Christian church me and my Thai wife occasionally attend in Vancouver is from Laos and his Pastor wife is from BKK..and 90% of the small(40 or so) congregation is Thai..point taken..once they "switch" from Buddhist to Christian they are EXTREMELY virtuous and devoted to their "new" religion.. I feel God is in all peoples and religions, and all are blessed if they do the "right things", like helping others for example. The poor need help, most would agree, its how to help them that is the question. At this Vancouver church many homeless poor( almost all farang) come for the free lunch, fed by the transplanted Thais. Many immigrants that come to Canada and the west see the land of milk and honey and more often than not become prosperous in their new home, while the incumbents often get "stuck "in the poverty trap

[cognos]

I hope that Thailand in general does not keep trying to emulate the west, or the poor in Thailand ( especially from Issan) may one day rise up in numbers and rebel en masse, instead of mere token semi-annual farmer protests in BKK that fizzle to nothing quickly, as the disparity and ever-widening gulf between rich and poor continues to grow in LOS

[Heng]

I hope that Thailand in general does not keep trying to emulate the west, or the poor in Thailand ( especially from Issan) may one day rise up in numbers and rebel en masse, instead of mere token semi-annual farmer protests in BKK that fizzle to nothing quickly, as the disparity and ever-widening gulf between rich and poor continues to grow in LOS

The poor in the west do their fair share of sitting around nowadays as well. All we need here is a food stamps program, WWE wresting, and lots more spectator sports like NASCAR to keep the masses numb.

[TheGoodDoctor]

Thais smile when they are nervous. Its strange, but true. They will be beaming from ear to ear like they just won the lottery when they are really scared out of their mind.

[way2muchcoffee]

In the West, poor people envy and hate rich people but in Thailand, poor people just envy rich people. The benevolence of the poor in Thailand is one of the really wonderful things about Thailand and Thai culture.

I agree and disagree. I believe the poor in Thailand both envy and hate the rich. This has been confirmed countless times by Thai family and friends from the poor end of the spectrum. They despise the rich with a seething hatred borne of being unjustly treated and having no hope to improve their situation. They mask this well, but it is there, under the surface. It is exactly this hopelessness, IMO, that is the cause of the apparent 'poise' in which the poor of Thailand manage to accept their lot in life. They know dang well nothing will change, no matter what they do, so they stop trying. The appear lazy, but they know that it doesn't pay to be industrious. They turn to 'sanuk' in whatever form it can be found. This includes the negatives of alcoholism, drug abuse, unsafe sex etc, but it is also the source of the genuine smile seen on the faces of the poorest in Thailand. I could be way off, but these are my observations and thoughts.

Edited October 22, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

[TheGoodDoctor]

What are you observing from your Thai family in terms of them hating the rich?

[way2muchcoffee]

What are you observing from your Thai family in terms of them hating the rich?

Good question. I noticed this smiling, good nature amongst poor Thai people immediately, despite leading lives that lacked any of the comforts I expect. I grew curious as to their feelings about the rich. So one night I asked my girlfriend, now wife, how she, her friends, and family really felt. I didn't get much response. She didn't care to talk about this. This was early on in the relationship. A year later I asked the same question. Our trust and comfort levels were much higher and she felt she could be honest about this. She explained that everyone she knew actually despised the rich. The consensus was that the wealthy are parasites, living a life of luxury, of the blood, sweat, and tears of the poor. She then explained that they all play the game of showing respect and kow-towing, because they have to. It is called survival. A couple of years later I put the question to a number of her friends when we returned to the village for a trip. I was met with silence and stares initially. The questions made them uncomfortable. I had been with my wife for five years at that time and these people knew me. Eventually, after a couple of beers, they loosened up and shared. Their comments were similar to what my wife had stated earlier.

Edited October 22, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

[catmac]

What are you observing from your Thai family in terms of them hating the rich?

Good question. I noticed this smiling, good nature amongst poor Thai people immediately, despite leading lives that lacked any of the comforts I expect. I grew curious as to their feelings about the rich. So one night I asked my girlfriend, now wife, how she, her friends, and family really felt. I didn't get much response. She didn't care to talk about this. This was early on in the relationship. A year later I asked the same question. Our trust and comfort levels were much higher and she felt she could be honest about this. She explained that everyone she knew actually despised the rich. The consensus was that the wealthy are parasites, living a life of luxury, of the blood, sweat, and tears of the poor. She then explained that they all play the game of showing respect and kow-towing, because they have to. It is called survival. A couple of years later I put the question to a number of her friends when we returned to the village for a trip. I was met with silence and stares initially. The questions made them uncomfortable. I had been with my wife for five years at that time and these people knew me. Eventually, after a couple of beers, they loosened up and shared. Their comments were similar to what my wife had stated earlier.

Possibly the most truthful post in this whole thread. The poor in Thailand are perhaps in much the same situation as the negro slaves in America before abolition - weren't they always depicted as being happy little souls, always singing and smiling, and accepting their lot in life with fortitude?

My Thai family regard the rich, parasitic Bangkok vermin with much the same loathing and contempt, but also know that they have to show deference in order to survive. One day, perhaps, a Morales-type leader will emerge able to lead the real Thai rural masses to their rightful place.

[TheGoodDoctor]

Interesting. Could all those smiles and looks of admiration and benevolence be pure lies and manipulations? Could they be cursing me behind my back?

[MrHammer]

I hope that Thailand in general does not keep trying to emulate the west, or the poor in Thailand ( especially from Issan) may one day rise up in numbers and rebel en masse, instead of mere token semi-annual farmer protests in BKK that fizzle to nothing quickly, as the disparity and ever-widening gulf between rich and poor continues to grow in LOS

The poor in the west do their fair share of sitting around nowadays as well. All we need here is a food stamps program, WWE wresting, and lots more spectator sports like NASCAR to keep the masses numb.

Sadly this is the truth, though Thailand doesn't lack for mindless entertainment for the masses no?, but at least the poor are not morbidly obese and a strain on the public healthcare.

But it would seem a collectivist society like Thailand is the perfect breeding ground for suppression of the poor. The real accomplishment is making the poor feel inadequate without anyone telling them. It's very similar to the 'white massa' thing.

[Geekfreaklover]

Interesting. Could all those smiles and looks of admiration and benevolence be pure lies and manipulations? Could they be cursing me behind my back?

Doc, I am afraid to say that it is probable.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[wintermute]

My Thai family regard the rich, parasitic Bangkok vermin with much the same loathing and contempt, but also know that they have to show deference in order to survive. One day, perhaps, a Morales-type leader will emerge able to lead the real Thai rural masses to their rightful place.

So how long have you been a Communist?

[phetaroi]

Possibly the most truthful post in this whole thread. The poor in Thailand are perhaps in much the same situation as the negro slaves in America before abolition - weren't they always depicted as being happy little souls, always singing and smiling, and accepting their lot in life with fortitude?

My Thai family regard the rich, parasitic Bangkok vermin with much the same loathing and contempt, but also know that they have to show deference in order to survive. One day, perhaps, a Morales-type leader will emerge able to lead the real Thai rural masses to their rightful place.

So let me see if I understand you. Because rural Thais -- let's say in Issan -- live a simple bucolic life, they can't own property, can't learn to read and write, have their families split up as one or more are sold to the highest bidder, are whipped and beaten for any minor infraction, cannot travel off the plantation on which they live even to go to the local market, and sit around all day singing "I loves you Porgy" (or in this case Noi).

Not much like my upcountry family...actually I should say two families...one with my spouse, the other a family in Chiang Mai I have known for nearly 25 years. The Issan family owns a couple of plots of rice fields and a couple of simple houses in tiny village...along with a couple of pick-up trucks. The two sisters chew betel...I guess that's your equivalent of slaves eating watermelon. While one brother grows rice, the other lives in Bangkok with a professional job based on his two university degrees. The other family in Chiang Mai...well, let's see...each adult child has a car or pickup truck. One owns a small but prosperous restaurant. Another became a chef in America. A third has a university degree and is a senior teacher. And neither family regard the people in Bangkok as parasitic vermin.

[cognos]

Possibly the most truthful post in this whole thread. The poor in Thailand are perhaps in much the same situation as the negro slaves in America before abolition - weren't they always depicted as being happy little souls, always singing and smiling, and accepting their lot in life with fortitude?

My Thai family regard the rich, parasitic Bangkok vermin with much the same loathing and contempt, but also know that they have to show deference in order to survive. One day, perhaps, a Morales-type leader will emerge able to lead the real Thai rural masses to their rightful place.

So let me see if I understand you. Because rural Thais -- let's say in Issan -- live a simple bucolic life, they can't own property, can't learn to read and write, have their families split up as one or more are sold to the highest bidder, are whipped and beaten for any minor infraction, cannot travel off the plantation on which they live even to go to the local market, and sit around all day singing "I loves you Porgy" (or in this case Noi).

Not much like my upcountry family...actually I should say two families...one with my spouse, the other a family in Chiang Mai I have known for nearly 25 years. The Issan family owns a couple of plots of rice fields and a couple of simple houses in tiny village...along with a couple of pick-up trucks. The two sisters chew betel...I guess that's your equivalent of slaves eating watermelon. While one brother grows rice, the other lives in Bangkok with a professional job based on his two university degrees. The other family in Chiang Mai...well, let's see...each adult child has a car or pickup truck. One owns a small but prosperous restaurant. Another became a chef in America. A third has a university degree and is a senior teacher. And neither family regard the people in Bangkok as parasitic vermin.

Some of the best and most resilient people come from the poor part of Issan, no doubt. Hardship often builds a resiliency that is often absent in those born with a " silver spoon in their mouths". Undoubtably many farang have found that marrying into a "poor" Issan family has been the best decision they ever made.Many of the women from the poorer areas of Issan make fantastic, devoted wives.To use a cookie cutter approach and state broadly that the poor Thais loath the rich is too simplistic. Of course many probably feel this way.

[Heng]

I hope that Thailand in general does not keep trying to emulate the west, or the poor in Thailand ( especially from Issan) may one day rise up in numbers and rebel en masse, instead of mere token semi-annual farmer protests in BKK that fizzle to nothing quickly, as the disparity and ever-widening gulf between rich and poor continues to grow in LOS

The poor in the west do their fair share of sitting around nowadays as well. All we need here is a food stamps program, WWE wresting, and lots more spectator sports like NASCAR to keep the masses numb.

Sadly this is the truth, though Thailand doesn't lack for mindless entertainment for the masses no?, but at least the poor are not morbidly obese and a strain on the public healthcare.

But it would seem a collectivist society like Thailand is the perfect breeding ground for suppression of the poor. The real accomplishment is making the poor feel inadequate without anyone telling them. It's very similar to the 'white massa' thing.

Plenty of crap entertainment, but they could always use more. They should also issue all folks below a certain income level who still own any sort of real estate, Aeon and Easy Buy cards. Should only be a few years before they are completely stripped of whatever property they may still have. May as well make the takeover complete.

The poor indigenous Thai IMO is nothing like the slave era American negro. Because at one point in time, they held all of the cards, controlled all of the commerce (what little there was), and of course all of the power. They weren't kidnapped and shipped off somewhere. They simply sold off everything they had piece by piece. That's one major reason IMO that you won't have huge swaths of angry folks across that demographic, because if they are the least bit rational, they know that they largely have themselves to blame. At most, their feelings peak at the 'mansai' level... which is just basic envy + dislike (and even then that dislike is probably more kin to self loathing).

Edited October 22, 2009 by Heng