Poor People Seem Happier In Los

[cognos]

Poor people in the west are generally VERY disgruntled and miserable, whereas in LOS and Asia in general, poorer people seem much happier and generally appear to have a peace of mind that is often absent in the western world. Is this due to the Buddhist philosophy of Karma, or are there other factors at play? In the west, money does not always buy happiness, but an absence of it in quantity appears to almost guarantee misery. Any thoughts on this phenomenon? Is it ONLY the higher cost of living in the west that supports this syndrome?

[sokal]

Poor people in the west are generally VERY disgruntled and miserable, whereas in LOS and Asia in general, poorer people seem much happier and generally appear to have a peace of mind that is often absent in the western world. Is this due to the Buddhist philosophy of Karma, or are there other factors at play? In the west, money does not always buy happiness, but an absence of it in quantity appears to almost guarantee misery. Any thoughts on this phenomenon? Is it ONLY the higher cost of living in the west that supports this syndrome?

Why do you think people in the west are not poor ? The wests wealth is an illusion, most people in the west have debts that they can hardly make the payments on. Is that wealth ? No its not. As far as I am concerned the people in Asia that have less or no debt are wealthier then their western counterparts. They live with less stress and less debt. In reality, western people need money more then Thai people yet Thai people think that western people are rich because they throw their money around. I cant stand the west and when my investment account is big enough, I am out.

[TAWP]

He didn't say people in the west isn't poor.

He said poor people in Thailand isn't as disgruntled about their status.

[richard_smith237]

Could it be something as simple as accepting the cards you are dealt with in life ?

i.e. In general Western people are always chasing that dream, horizons change and we are perpetually goal orientated throughout the financial spectrum. It is apparent that in Thailand; combined with a general lack of education and opportunity poorer people simply accept what they have and get on with it.

[Moonrakers]

I dunno.

I have seen a side of poorer Thai's that shows that they can be a jealous lot who can be very resentful of what others have that they don't, whilst I have also met other Thai's who don't have a pot to piss in yet they are happy as a pig in <deleted>.

Don't know where I am going with this, just stating an observation.

Edited October 21, 2009 by Moonrakers

[Johpa]

It is so much easier to indulge in the neo-sahib life style when you imagine the poor to be happy, kind of a psychotherapy to assuage any pangs of guilt.

[Huey]

What Guilt Johpa???

My folks were poor when I was a kid, not dirt Thai poor like this, but sure as hel_l not wealthy. But they never let me know it. Actually those times as a kid during the holidays in particular with Grandma, Granddad, my Aunt and cousins were some of the happiest in my life. They all had to work hard for what they had but nobody was running around pissy about it.

[stickyrice]

I think there is some truth to what the OP says. But, I think it is true not only of the LOS. In many countries were the lower class vastly out number the middle and upper class, if you are poor you are the median. If you are pretty much like most people, it is easier to accept who you are and what you have.

This is just my opinion.

[anselpixel]

There's no doubt about it.

People want those things they're told will bring them status and happiness.

Here in the US, I've spent a lifetime resisting misinformation concerning material wealth, and as a consequence I've never even had a credit card.

Now that I'm ready to retire, my friends who have to continue working forever to pay off the interest on their debts tell me they wish they'd never bought into the multiple SUV, mini-mansions and trophy wives lifestyle.

I have very little, but I'm the rich one.

I thank my parents and grandparents for that. They never made a big deal out of being poor, but put a lot of emphasis on being free of debt.

I'm not sure about the anger at being poor, but the demoralization and depression are manifest. If the poor were really angry, we'd have much more trouble controlling them. As it is, they fall into self-abuse at an early age, and are imprisoned soon after.

We no longer have the kind of family and social infrastructure to help poor people live decent lives, and we've replaced their belief systems with advertising.

It will happen everywhere unless there's some major change in the focus of global development.

If the poor in Thailand are happier, they won't remain that way for long.

[cognos]

I think there is some truth to what the OP says. But, I think it is true not only of the LOS. In many countries were the lower class vastly out number the middle and upper class, if you are poor you are the median. If you are pretty much like most people, it is easier to accept who you are and what you have.

This is just my opinion.

astute observation..in the western world the majority are labelled "middle class", however in LOS ( although it appears from my travels that the Thai middle class is rising rapidly) "middle class citizens" are probably still in the minority compared to the majority of Thai citizens. Perhaps it comes down to "safety in numbers".

[cognos]

Poor people in the west are generally VERY disgruntled and miserable, whereas in LOS and Asia in general, poorer people seem much happier and generally appear to have a peace of mind that is often absent in the western world. Is this due to the Buddhist philosophy of Karma, or are there other factors at play? In the west, money does not always buy happiness, but an absence of it in quantity appears to almost guarantee misery. Any thoughts on this phenomenon? Is it ONLY the higher cost of living in the west that supports this syndrome?

Why do you think people in the west are not poor ? The wests wealth is an illusion, most people in the west have debts that they can hardly make the payments on. Is that wealth ? No its not. As far as I am concerned the people in Asia that have less or no debt are wealthier then their western counterparts. They live with less stress and less debt. In reality, western people need money more then Thai people yet Thai people think that western people are rich because they throw their money around. I cant stand the west and when my investment account is big enough, I am out.

You are correct that many in the west spend well beyond their means, and this creates enough misery on its own. I am somewhat confused by your first sentence; perhaps you mean that many people in the west are not poor. I agree with your observation. I also used to feel that i could not "stand the west" when I came back to the west (Canada) from LOS. Perhaps this was partially due to the fact that i had to leave my wife back in LOS 4 times and return alone while waiting (in varying degrees of impatience) for the visa to be finalized (and the road ragers did not help much, although i don't notice them much now).

[ThailandLovr]

I think the poor of Thailand are happier because they have accepted this status. In the west, specifically America, the poor are often given government handouts which give them a temporary taste of the "good life" and which further their expectations of additional "entitlements". I don't want to divert this thread into U.S. politics, but many poor there do not accept this status, preferring (not surprisingly) the "redistribution of wealth" philosophy as openly advocated by President Obama.

Edited October 21, 2009 by ThailandLovr

[Geekfreaklover]

The majority of locals here are extremely capatalistic. When it comes to finding out their place within the ridgid, yet complex Thai social hyrachy system there are a number of factors to take on board. Skin colour. Education. Heritage.. You can buy your way up the ladder to a certain extent, but you will always be poor if you have elvoved from poor breeding.

Poor people are looked down on in Thailand. The fact that they are smiling does not denote happiness. Thais have thirteen different ways to smile and only a few spell happiness.

Also we have to consider what it is really like to be poor. In the north east of Thailand you may not have Baht number one, but there is always rice growing in the paddies, fruit in the trees and frogs jumping in the ponds. Owing to the climate here it is possible to nourish ourselves with next to no money all year long.

Are poor people in Thailand happy? No. they want more money.

There's only two things wrong with money. Too much or too little.

Edited October 21, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[Heng]

Plenty of ways to look at this one. Plenty of poor looking Thais, as mentioned, aren't poor at all. They might not have a large portfolio of property, but their bellies are full, their only home has likely been paid off for decades if not generations, and they have work to do. On the other hand, there are plenty of angry/disgruntled/etc. poor Thais as well.

The local organized religion certainly deserves a lot of the credit, both on the up and downside. You feel that wherever you are, that's where you deserve to be, so you almost have to be content with it. However that also takes a lot of the fight and struggle out of people because how the heck do you fight your karma from previous lives and it's apparent that you must have been pretty bad when you look at your current life situation if you happen to be p|ss poor.

[Heng]

One thing for sure, and I'm sure it's not a popular notion... is at the opposite end of the spectrum, the well to do have a really nice/comfy/smooth ride here.

[cognos]

Heng, i believe you hit the proverbial nail square on the head with one effective hammer blow. There is a book called "The force of Karma".. the author's name escapes me, but it alludes specifically and often to your supposition. The author speculates that karma "represses the poor" to the extent that they will never rebel en masse a la the French Revolution in 1789,( heads are gonna roll) and this makes the rich in LOS (therefore the status quo remains intact and the disparity between rich and poor perpetuates and even widens) very comfortable indeed.

[Heng]

I've seen it in other religions as well (millions of folks endure cr@p situations because it's their God's -whatever his name is- "will"), but it's going to be particularly widespread when you have a population that is more inclined or susceptible (depending on your point of view) towards believing in external/anything intangible more than internal forces controlling your life. That is, a large indigenous Thai Christian population are probably not going to start a revolution either, IMO. The large Thai Muslim population has taken XXX hundred years to get their revolution thing going, and hardly in effective style either.

[phetaroi]

There's no doubt about it.

People want those things they're told will bring them status and happiness.

Here in the US, I've spent a lifetime resisting misinformation concerning material wealth, and as a consequence I've never even had a credit card.

Now that I'm ready to retire, my friends who have to continue working forever to pay off the interest on their debts tell me they wish they'd never bought into the multiple SUV, mini-mansions and trophy wives lifestyle.

I have very little, but I'm the rich one.

I thank my parents and grandparents for that. They never made a big deal out of being poor, but put a lot of emphasis on being free of debt.

I'm not sure about the anger at being poor, but the demoralization and depression are manifest. If the poor were really angry, we'd have much more trouble controlling them. As it is, they fall into self-abuse at an early age, and are imprisoned soon after.

We no longer have the kind of family and social infrastructure to help poor people live decent lives, and we've replaced their belief systems with advertising.

It will happen everywhere unless there's some major change in the focus of global development.

If the poor in Thailand are happier, they won't remain that way for long.

Can you afford counseling? I really think it's needed. Of course, that's just my opinion...as opposed to your opinion of which there "is no doubt." It must be nice being so omnipotent. Of course people want things. There's nothing wrong with wanting things. What's the sin of a credit card, if used responsibly? I have 3...never been in debt with any of them since getting my first back in the lat 1960s. Sounds like you have rather shallow friends. I'm surprised they'll let you into their mansions and spend time with their trophy wives since you don't even have a credit card. And we have to control the poor? All the poor fall into self-abuse and are imprisoned early in life?

The one place I understand your posting is about your parents and grandparents believing in and passing on the belief in remaining debt free. Sounds like good old American Great Depression thinking. Take that sentence at face value.

[sokal]

It is so much easier to indulge in the neo-sahib life style when you imagine the poor to be happy, kind of a psychotherapy to assuage any pangs of guilt.

I am jealous of those crews of motorbike taxi drivers that just sit around, drink, sleep and make fun of farangs all day. Then they jump on their bikes and its like playing grand theft auto all the way to their destination.I wish me and my friends had that opportunity.

[Harcourt]

Could it be something as simple as accepting the cards you are dealt with in life ?

i.e. In general Western people are always chasing that dream, horizons change and we are perpetually goal orientated throughout the financial spectrum. It is apparent that in Thailand; combined with a general lack of education and opportunity poorer people simply accept what they have and get on with it.

I agree.

Western education and television/advertising make for discontent when you don't have that greener grass.

[Harcourt]

It is so much easier to indulge in the neo-sahib life style when you imagine the poor to be happy, kind of a psychotherapy to assuage any pangs of guilt.

I think there are some "neo-sahibs" that you are quite right about.

Did you coin that term? It's good and paints the picture very well.

[TheGoodDoctor]

Poor people in the west are generally VERY disgruntled and miserable, whereas in LOS and Asia in general, poorer people seem much happier and generally appear to have a peace of mind that is often absent in the western world. Is this due to the Buddhist philosophy of Karma, or are there other factors at play? In the west, money does not always buy happiness, but an absence of it in quantity appears to almost guarantee misery. Any thoughts on this phenomenon? Is it ONLY the higher cost of living in the west that supports this syndrome?

Thai people are taught to obey their elders, employers and people richer than they are. In the West, poor people envy and hate rich people but in Thailand, poor people just envy rich people. The benevolence of the poor in Thailand is one of the really wonderful things about Thailand and Thai culture.

[TheGoodDoctor]

Could it be something as simple as accepting the cards you are dealt with in life ?

i.e. In general Western people are always chasing that dream, horizons change and we are perpetually goal orientated throughout the financial spectrum. It is apparent that in Thailand; combined with a general lack of education and opportunity poorer people simply accept what they have and get on with it.

Western people have a sense of expectation. Western children are taught, you are going to be a famous movie star one day and you can dream! You are going to be rich because you are special and smart! Then it turns out that Xavier does not have all the requirements for such lofty dreams so he ends up hating the world and feeling that he was cheated.

[TheGoodDoctor]

The large Thai Muslim population has taken XXX hundred years to get their revolution thing going, and hardly in effective style either.

Its not a really a Muslim revolution is it? I also figured it was just drug lords trying to gain full control over that tiny little strip of land that can be used to transport drugs from Cambodia and Vietnam west.

[whichschool]

Western people have a sense of expectation.

Its a human trait to wish/dream for things, not exclusive to us blue eyed devils.

Western children are taught, you are going to be a famous movie star one day and you can dream!

I take it youve never met a western kid.

You are going to be rich because you are special and smart!

Now im sure youve never me a western kid.

Then it turns out that Xavier does not have all the requirements for such lofty dreams so he ends up hating the world and feeling that he was cheated.

So the outcome of your cod philosphy is that anyone in the west who isnt a wealthy or a superstar is angry, i hope youre not a real doctor

[Johpa]

One thing for sure, and I'm sure it's not a popular notion... is at the opposite end of the spectrum, the well to do have a really nice/comfy/smooth ride here.

Crikey Heng, the people in the middle have a pretty comfy ride, as do their foreign ex-pat peers who populate these boards. As long as they keep out of debt, middle class Thais can have maids, drivers, and mia nois.

[BSJ]

In Australia I rate as working class based on my income though no longer working. In Thailand I can live well on what I got. In Oz I will have to live frugally for the rest of my life if I stay here. But it beats being poor anywhere!

[sokal]

One thing for sure, and I'm sure it's not a popular notion... is at the opposite end of the spectrum, the well to do have a really nice/comfy/smooth ride here.

Crikey Heng, the people in the middle have a pretty comfy ride, as do their foreign ex-pat peers who populate these boards. As long as they keep out of debt, middle class Thais can have maids, drivers, and mia nois.

My friend has $350,000 invested, he makes $1800 a month after tax on his investments. He lives off of the $1800 per month.

Is my friend rich or poor ?

[TheGoodDoctor]

your friend has not factored in inflation.

[Maigo6]

Poor people in the west are generally VERY disgruntled and miserable,

Like many farangs in Thailand are all of the above, and them some ! And many are seen as, and many like to think that, they are well off. If money is a factor in the happiness stakes, why are so many farangs so unhappy ?