Puzzling Electrical Malfunction Problem (with Photos)

[syd barrett]

This multi-socket was running my fax machine (standby), my desktop computer and LCD screen then I plugged the kettle in, to boil, I've done this hundreds of times before.

When I returned the kettle had half boiled and there was a strong smell of plastic burning and the power had failed.

The fuse had (eventually blown). But look at the photos: They show an extreme heat situation and melting and the fuse section has welded onto the internal structure. This could have started a house fire if newspaper/cardboard had been nearby.

My questions are these.

1. Why didn't the fuse blow instantly before so much heat and melting?

2. I have boiled a kettle many times before, what happened this time?

3. The kettle is I think only 2KW rating

Any answers, suggestions for future multi-plug safety or alternative safer options here in Thailand?

[Soutpeel]

Any answers, suggestions for future multi-plug safety or alternative safer options here in Thailand?

You have bought the cheapest muti-plug going...if I remember something like THB129 for a 5m ?....these things burn up/break all the time....

Simple solution...buy an extension plug which is better quality ie more expensive....the ones in the photos are cheap and nasty...

[sorensen]

The root cause problem of this incident is because it is Made in China!!!

Most likely from sub standard materials and never really properly dimensioned and tested.

[Crossy]

My questions are these.

1. Why didn't the fuse blow instantly before so much heat and melting?

2. I have boiled a kettle many times before, what happened this time?

3. The kettle is I think only 2KW rating

Any answers, suggestions for future multi-plug safety or alternative safer options here in Thailand?

Evidently a lucky escape from what must be a chief cause of house fires in LoS.

I have a similar multi extension. Mine is rated at 10A, has a 10A fuse and 1.0mm² flex.

Your 2kW kettle would pull 9A at 220V, already near the line, add another couple of amps for your PC, monitor and fax and we're at the limit for a well constructed extension. Having had a few of these apart they are hardly well constructed, I would not trust them at much over half the 'rating'.

Fuses blow by getting hot, yours had likely gotten pretty warm on numerous occasions, it had probably also developed a poor contact which added to the heating. Contrary to popular belief a 10A fuse will likely only blow quickly when subjected to a >100% overload, it would likely take many minutes to blow (if at all) on 11A. Nett result melted plastic and a horrible pong.

In future, only plug high-power devices (kettles) directly into the wall outlet or use a quality extension and don't load it past 75%.

[syd barrett]

My questions are these.

1. Why didn't the fuse blow instantly before so much heat and melting?

2. I have boiled a kettle many times before, what happened this time?

3. The kettle is I think only 2KW rating

Any answers, suggestions for future multi-plug safety or alternative safer options here in Thailand?

Evidently a lucky escape from what must be a chief cause of house fires in LoS.

I have a similar multi extension. Mine is rated at 10A, has a 10A fuse and 1.0mm² flex.

Your 2kW kettle would pull 9A at 220V, already near the line, add another couple of amps for your PC, monitor and fax and we're at the limit for a well constructed extension. Having had a few of these apart they are hardly well constructed, I would not trust them at much over half the 'rating'.

Fuses blow by getting hot, yours had likely gotten pretty warm on numerous occasions, it had probably also developed a poor contact which added to the heating. Contrary to popular belief a 10A fuse will likely only blow quickly when subjected to a >100% overload, it would likely take many minutes to blow (if at all) on 11A. Nett result melted plastic and a horrible pong.

In future, only plug high-power devices (kettles) directly into the wall outlet or use a quality extension and don't load it past 75%.

Thanks for the excellent feedback!

Quality extensions in Thailand, do they exist?

What about it I fit a lower rated fuse: Say 5 Amps. At least then it would blow and not burn and superheat the extension.

I bought this multi-plug at Tesco Lotus on Pattaya Nua and it cost 298 baht.

Are 'fast-blow' fuses available in Thailand?

I also have a suspicion that the two pronged kettle plug had a very poor friction contact, when inserted into the extension, so when it waggled backwards and forwards it failed to contact, could that contribute?

What rating is a flat iron in KW is that the same as a kettle?

Thanks for any info, my main aim is to be safe and free from possible fire risks.

[yabaaaa]

Good ones start at 680 baht upwards what u have bought is "tat" and thats nowt to do with Tourism.

Look for the 3 pronged ones too, those two pin things are a joke..........assuming you have 3 pin sockets and an earth?

[Nio]

This multi-socket was running my fax machine (standby), my desktop computer and LCD screen then I plugged the kettle in, to boil, I've done this hundreds of times before.

When I returned the kettle had half boiled and there was a strong smell of plastic burning and the power had failed.

The fuse had (eventually blown). But look at the photos: They show an extreme heat situation and melting and the fuse section has welded onto the internal structure. This could have started a house fire if newspaper/cardboard had been nearby.

My questions are these.

1. Why didn't the fuse blow instantly before so much heat and melting?

2. I have boiled a kettle many times before, what happened this time?

3. The kettle is I think only 2KW rating

Any answers, suggestions for future multi-plug safety or alternative safer options here in Thailand?

In Thailand you get what you pay for. The idea is that the fuse is suppose to blow but when it is designed in China, they dont care if the fuse blows or not.

Probably an errant/extra wire/connection on the power side (wall socket) side of the circuit before the fuse kept the circuit hot

[kokesaat]

I've bought Toshino, four socket (3prong) extensions at Homepro, cost about 400 baht. It has a green/red light to show a proper ground. It's rated 10amp, 2000w, has a heavy duty 3 prong wall insert. Made in China with 3 separate QC stickers on the back. I would buy better ones if they were available, but haven't seen anything in Thailand.

I'm curious why in a big city in Texas, I was unable to find any multi-outlet extensions with individual power switches for each outlet. Yet in Thailand, they're the standard.

If anyone has found better quality/safer versions, please provide name/cost/and store name.

Thanks

[Crossy]

Thanks for the excellent feedback!

Quality extensions in Thailand, do they exist?

What about it I fit a lower rated fuse: Say 5 Amps. At least then it would blow and not burn and superheat the extension.

I bought this multi-plug at Tesco Lotus on Pattaya Nua and it cost 298 baht.

Are 'fast-blow' fuses available in Thailand?

I also have a suspicion that the two pronged kettle plug had a very poor friction contact, when inserted into the extension, so when it waggled backwards and forwards it failed to contact, could that contribute?

What rating is a flat iron in KW is that the same as a kettle?

Thanks for any info, my main aim is to be safe and free from possible fire risks.

WonPro make some reasonably well assembled extensions, available in HomePro various prices. Mine is rated at 13A and has a (rating unknown) 'no-fuse' breaker.

Yes, a 5 Amp fuse will improve safety of the cheapo units and yes, quick-blow fuses are available in the electronics markets.

A poor contact will arc and get hot, although I doubt it contributed to your current meltdown.

Our iron is 1200W (5.5A) rather less than your kettle.

[ignis]

My better ones are called 'ASC Power' I have about 10 all together 3, 4 and 6 sockets on strips yes they have earth + each socket has it's own switch + the cable is heavy and fat...... They do not have a fuse but a trip button on the end.. Bought all of them at the local electric discount store in the next Village, the 6 strip and 6 meters of cable cost 325 baht, 4 strip 279 baht..

I do have one like the OP but is used only for 2x mobile phone chargers, 2x cam chargers and 1x blue-tooth charger and then just 2 max 3 items are ever charging at the same time.

Edit: the trip works because it has popped out on the one in the kitchen.. my fault put on the deep fat fryer, then forgot and also switched on the microwave combi,

Edited October 27, 2009 by ignis

[syd barrett]

My better ones are called 'ASC Power' I have about 10 all together 3, 4 and 6 sockets on strips yes they have earth + each socket has it's own switch + the cable is heavy and fat...... They do not have a fuse but a trip button on the end..

Is a trip button better than a fuse?

I just opened up my multi-plug and it looks as if the reason the power was lost was that the actual solder melted on the fuse connection rather than the fuse blowing.

I find this very frustrating. How can Thailand allow such shoddy goods for sale in respected stores like Tesco Lotus?

To be honest before this incident I trusted multiplugs with 10 A fuses now I don't.

I just hope that this thread can enlighten other people of the dangers of higher power appliances on a multi-plug sockets (bought over here in good faith).

[ignis]

Is a trip button better than a fuse?

If the fuse blows then you must have to hand another fuse, or remember where you put the spare.. [having a big sort out and change around in the living room and dinning room last week found 4 'lost' packs of spare fuses, memory is not what it was]

At least with a trip button, you switch off one of the plugs and push the trip back in and all is working again.

[Meridian007]

My biggest worry has always been the gauge of wire in these multis. I've had a few of them apart (especially the crappy Tesco ones), and it seems like they are using what looks like 22 gauge wire or smaller. I know that most of mine in the west are closer to 16 g. and I would think that with the higher voltage here, a thicker wire would be required for proper resistance. If I have a high load on them, the cable is always so hot that I'm amazed they don't melt. I'm no electrician so I don't know, but it makes sense to me.

Any electricians here or engineers that can comment on this? As well, does anyone know where we can buy 3 lead, braided wire at 16 g. or better? Home Pro has solid 3 lead wire, but it's too stiff for extension cord use.

[Crossy]

My biggest worry has always been the gauge of wire in these multis. I've had a few of them apart (especially the crappy Tesco ones), and it seems like they are using what looks like 22 gauge wire or smaller. I know that most of mine in the west are closer to 16 g. and I would think that with the higher voltage here, a thicker wire would be required for proper resistance. If I have a high load on them, the cable is always so hot that I'm amazed they don't melt. I'm no electrician so I don't know, but it makes sense to me.

Any electricians here or engineers that can comment on this? As well, does anyone know where we can buy 3 lead, braided wire at 16 g. or better? Home Pro has solid 3 lead wire, but it's too stiff for extension cord use.

Wires here are sized by their cross sectional area (CSA) in square millimetres (mm²). 1mm² flex is rated at 10A, better would be 1.5mm² rated at 16A and far less likely to overheat.

Equivalent US sizes would be 1mm² = 17AWG, 1.5mm² = 15AWG (approximate conversion).

Unfortunately, getting 3 core flex seems nigh on impossible, I have to get family to bring it from the UK.

Under no circumstances attempt to use the solid-core cable for extensions, the cores will eventually break leading to arcing and potential fires.

[Meridian007]

Thanks Crossy! I knew about the problems of solid core, but I didn't know about the metric conversion. In Canada we're supposed to be 100% metric, but there are still some things that we do in imperial.

I was afraid that what I've found (or not found) would be commiserated by others, I've tried to find 3 core flex (Thanks! Now I know what to call it!) at 15AWG for three years, with no luck. I guess I'll have to bring some from home too...

Edited October 27, 2009 by Meridian007

[lopburi3]

respected stores like Tesco Lotus?

Can not add to that.

[jackr]

Unfortunately, getting 3 core flex seems nigh on impossible, I have to get family to bring it from the UK.

Yep, tough to get although managed to pick up a load of heavy-duty black three core (1.5mm).

Have brought over UK plugs and extension leads mainly for computers, etc. You just cannot beat the solid connection, although I'm ashamed to say I, too, have a shovelful of those cheap n nasty Toshino-type leads.

Tesco may be a respected chain in the UK, but out here it tends to follow the norm and deal in any old tack.

[stickyrice]

I have nothing to add. I just want to thank the people who contributed to this tread. Particularly Crossy and the OP. It is not every day you learn something really useful (and interesting btw).

Thank you much

[Foggy Dew]

Hi All,

Aside from the quality of the multi-plug and what was plugged into it. The biggest by far problem area in all areas of electronics is poor connections bar none! The basic Thai / Chinese two pin plug is loose and does not make a positive connection, this generates heat + cheep plastics and you can have only one result.

Round 2 pin is a better connection than slot 2 pin, but best is 3 pin UK style. If you value your life it is worth it to change over to 3 pin style, and each time you buy a new appliance you just change the plug. Its just a few baht, but worth it hands down.

As they say in LOS "Up to you"

Have a happy,

Foggy.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Foggy Dew

[Naam]

This multi-socket was running my fax machine (standby), my desktop computer and LCD screen then I plugged the kettle in, to boil, I've done this hundreds of times before.

[costalot]

I don't think that all 'toshino' multi connectors are bad. I use a 3 pin / 5 socket with pop out trip for my TV/DVD/AMP etc. The wall cable is 3 pin and is never warm. The rating is clearly shown in the unit 10 amp/2000 watts. It also take the uk plug.

[Crossy]

I don't think that all 'toshino' multi connectors are bad. I use a 3 pin / 5 socket with pop out trip for my TV/DVD/AMP etc. The wall cable is 3 pin and is never warm. The rating is clearly shown in the unit 10 amp/2000 watts. It also take the uk plug.

Plug in your kettle and it will definately get warm

Don't believe everything you read on a rating plate, even my cheapest, nastiest, most 'orrible multi says 10A

The Toshino units I have I would class as "mid-range" not wonderful quality, but 1,000,000 times better than the cheap crap.

[ignis]

Unfortunately, getting 3 core flex seems nigh on impossible

Cannot understand this ? where are you looking for this ?

6 years ago bought heavy duty 3 core flex + for outside bought 3 core armored flex..

I bought both from a Builders supply shop out in the sticks near where I live in 2003..

Agree was difficult to find heavy duty 3 core flexed ready made extensions until about 18 months ago.

[longball53098]

I have 200 meters of VCT 3 core cable rated to 750 volts 3 x 1.5mm left over from my house build. Anyone want to buy it? This is heavy cable for super extension cables. Made by Bangkok Cable Co. and bought at Global House never used.

Be very careful of these "power strips" they are poor quality and many have wiring mistakes. I have rewired at least 3 units that were the 3 pin earthed type. The factory reversed the hot and neutrals inside the units.

[Spoonman]

HomePro (pattaya) sell black 3 core flex.

[Crossy]

I have 200 meters of VCT 3 core cable rated to 750 volts 3 x 1.5mm left over from my house build. Anyone want to buy it? This is heavy cable for super extension cables. Made by Bangkok Cable Co. and bought at Global House never used.

I'd hang on to it, you never know when a super extension cord will be required What's the outside diameter of this cable? What sort of per-metre price are you looking at? Sadly Rayong is a bit far for us to come but someone more local could likely use some

What most people need is 1.0mm (10A) 3-core appliance flex which should be available anywhere that sells plugs and sockets, unfortunately even with a sample our local outlets are baffled as to why anyone could need 3 wires

EDIT Spoonman, I'll try our local HomePro again, they certainly had nothing approaching suitable 6 months ago. Did you notice the price / conductor size?

[longball53098]

I have 200 meters of VCT 3 core cable rated to 750 volts 3 x 1.5mm left over from my house build. Anyone want to buy it? This is heavy cable for super extension cables. Made by Bangkok Cable Co. and bought at Global House never used.

I'd hang on to it, you never know when a super extension cord will be required What's the outside diameter of this cable? What sort of per-metre price are you looking at? Sadly Rayong is a bit far for us to come but someone more local could likely use some

What most people need is 1.0mm (10A) 3-core appliance flex which should be available anywhere that sells plugs and sockets, unfortunately even with a sample our local outlets are baffled as to why anyone could need 3 wires

EDIT Spoonman, I'll try our local HomePro again, they certainly had nothing approaching suitable 6 months ago. Did you notice the price / conductor size?

You can see the spec here VCT Cable

As for price I will have to dig in to the pile of receipts to see what we paid for it and what I might ask for it. I could ship it anywhere in LOS if a deal is reached.

[NanLaew]

Wonpro or Belkin. These are the ONLY ones I purchase.

The 3-pin option is recommended even though your home probably has nothing connected to the 'ground' pin if it has 3 pin receptacles on the wall. However, using 3-pin plugs in a 3-pin socket gives a much more robust and tight connection versus a simple 2-pin socket. I rented an older property once and changed all the power outlets from 2-pin to 3-pin type for this simple reason; mo more loose power connections.

[xerostar]

Homex carry some nice heavy 3 core cable and some very heavy 3 core too.

Don't ask about the color codes though!

They don't match up with existing wiring here.

I have used it in our place (instead of that horrible solid core stuff).

You can actually pull it through a conduit without it kinking or sticking.

The problem is if you want to make a decent extension cable there are no decent plugs

or sockets available to put on this cable!

Luckily I brought a supply of Aussie plugs, sockets and wall outlets with me.

Now my plugs stay in and don't fall out (when I'm not looking) like the toy plugs here do.

Most of the electrical gear sold here is made from toy-plastic and very weak.

I think they were designed by toy manufacturers really!

The screw terminal threads strip if you do them up too tight.

The rubber or plastic housings are too small to take more then the small diameter cables.

Our workers have managed to burn out several of my sockets by leaving them out in the rain and then

using them the next day while still wet. They melt, burn and the pugs fall out.

They just stick bare wires into any old socket to make a connection!

I have to shudder and go away - they refuse to change their bad habits!

Last week I was making a new connection to the main terminals under the power meter.

I could not believe the poor design! The little alloy screws that hold the plastic cover on

come within a millimeter of the main live terminal when you try to screw them in!

They are a very loose fit and you have to guide them into position (with an insulated screwdriver)

It's possible the linesman have put the live wire in the wrong position.

- it should be in the centre and not on the outer edge near the cover screw.

A less careful person would be easily zapped while puting the cover back on!

Why can't the authorities use tested safe gear from western countries instead of this crap?

If I owned a shop, I would refuse to sell this stuff!

Peoples lives are more important than low prices!

[Hssl]

VCT is found all over Thailand but don't buy it from Home pro or the like - very expensive.

2,3,4,6,8 core with sizes going from 1mm-6mm and more