Which Laptop?

[The Gentleman Scamp]

I want to buy a decent laptop while I still have sufficient funds to do so, and as well as burning CD's, DVD's and all the other stuff - my main reason for getting one is to proffessionally edit movies from Sony DV cassettes for which, i understand I'd need a firewire.

I need to be able to link my camera to the laptop and put music and narrative over my films, blend footage and take photographic stills from footage to name but a few.

I also need international warranty and I assume I could use a BKK bought laptop in the U.K. and that I could get one in BKK for cheaper than in the U.K.

I have heard that Apple are the best for movie editing, but which model.

I am expecting to have to fork out between 40 and 60,000.

I know a guy from CNN who used a Mac (That's Apple right?)...

Bear in mind that I have never really owned a computer and my PC literacy doesn't go much further than Microsoft Word, however, being the creative chap I am, once familiar with my tools there's no end to how I could utilize them to my advantage.

Everyone was saying 'Apple' to me and then somebody ruined it for me by saying they were the most expensive to repair.

I need more guidence on this, however, I'm off to Pantip tomorrow (if it's open Sundays) to have a look at some.

Any advice, price quotes, links and retailers appreciated.

Cheers,

Scampy

[Firefoxx]

If your main goal is DV editing, a notebook is not the best tool for the job. They have smaller and slower harddisks which means you can store less videos (dv takes 12GB/hour of video) and you may lose frames while capturing. They also tend to have less ram, and for DV the more ram the better.

Also, your budget is not enough to get a Mac laptop, let alone one that can do DV well. Macs tend to come at a premium, and laptops even more so. Macs are good in that they're user friendly.

A PC laptop from middle tier manufacturers (Acer, Asus, etc) will do DV and be able to write DVDs, and will cost you the high end of your budget. Try to get "sonoma" notebooks, as they have a lot of new enhancements. Most come with a 1 year int'l warranty and 3 year local warranty. If you want to do serious editing, you will also need to buy external harddisks.

A PC desktop, more suited to DV, will cost you the low end of your budget.

Laptops in LOS are typically more expensive than other countries (US, Japan, S'pore, etc).

[monty]

Hi Scamp,

A mac is indeed the preferred way if you only want to do video work. They outperform most intel/amd based pc's and have some really good software for this purpose....

However you simply will not find one in your budget (a powerbook with dvd burner is in the 120000 Baht region and yes, spare parts are more expensive and harder to come by, as is cheap software, knowledgable help when you have questions...

On the other hand if you want a laptop suitable for your use you'll probably end up in a higher price range as well!

you would need something like this

http://www.pantipprice.com/detail.asp?pd_id=PD0000438

Has the firewire, dvd-burner already BUT you'll need extra storage (you don't get far with 80Gb if you start working DV files) and it'll need a serious ram upgrade (like minimum 1Gb for DV-editing)

The Acer is probably the cheapest offering as well, a Sony with DVD burner starts at 85000 Baht!

http://www.pantipprice.com/detail.asp?pd_id=PD0003126

Good luck, and yes Pantip is open Sundays

[monty]

Firefox,

you point out valid disadvantages of a laptop when editing video, but they have one very big advantage over their desktop brethren: huge level of cache memory!!!

The pentium M740 processor has a massive 2mb L2 cache! This is needed to compensate for the slower clockspeeds, but the memory transfer intensive video editing can really get a boost from this cache memory....

[buadhai]

Look for a 14" Mac PowerBook with a SuperDrive (DVD burner) and get an external FireWire drive for better performance than the internal drive would offer.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Laptops in LOS are typically more expensive than other countries (US, Japan, S'pore, etc).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you mean it would not be cheaper to buy one here than in England?

If so, how about S.Korea?

[Crushdepth]

Don't feel compelled to get a mac for this purpose. They may be 'better' for video (and photo editing and publication layout) but you can achieve exactly the same thing with a PC and a lot of the software tools are the same. Unless you're a hardcore movie editing guru you probably wouldn't notice a lot of difference, so you might as well save yourself some bucks.

If video editing is your main purpose, it may be worth considering a desktop with a big flat monitor instead of a laptop - much cheaper, much more grunt (important since processing video footage can lock up your machine for *hours*), and much more comfortable to work with. Editing on the road on a laptop = not a lot of fun.

Edited April 3, 2005 by Crushdepth

[Phil Conners]

I actually don't agree with that. IMO laptops are priced similar to USA and lower than most European countries.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Editing on the road on a laptop = not a lot of fun.

I'm not based anywhere for more than a couple of months so a laptop is really the only option as I flit from Asia to U.K. finding what work I can and searching for contentement and the love of a good woman.

This is actually the basis of the video diary/FOTW documentary/home movie I have been making since I was given the camera as a gift last August.

I'm not a computer wizz or anything but I do like to write, I use the internet and e-mail a lot, I would definatly use anything to do with making, copying, saving, compiling or burning music functions and I would also use a laptop to watch DVD's.

The main *specialist* reason is the movie editing.

I'm not a proffessional film maker but I'm as creative as any film maker and know exactly what I want.

For example, the opening sequence to my finished film would be a fast paced collage of around 100 short action clips taken from the past eight months and put to a suitable song or piece of music no longer than 3 minutes.

Most of the clips would be a 2 or 3 seconds and would be silent against the music though one or two I would wish to be slow mo or speeded up, some I may want to add an effect and I'd want to add titles.

I'd also want to adjust the volume of certain clips so I could bring significant ones to an auidable surface during a quiet gap in the title music.

For the rest of the film, I'd want to be able to file all the footage I wanted to use and put it together easily, eventually compressing 9hrs of footage into a 1/2hr film.

I don't want to have to buy any extras unless really nescessary and would want something user friendly and fast.

Photoshop is another package I would be interested in but that's software I coupld upload to all laptops anyway, I think... Which brings me to my final point, I'm not very computer savvy as you can tell so just owning a laptop would help me catch up with the wizzkids.

Thanks for your helpful comments thus far,

Scampy.

[Firefoxx]

Scampy, if a notebook is the only option, you can reduce the impact of slow components by upgrading things. Get 2GB of ram and a faster harddisk replacement. Of course, you can't change the fact that a notebook's harddisk (its one and only) is not larger than 80GB... you will need to get another for DV editing. I have a 160GB harddisk, and I've filled it up very quickly with DV video (you need space for the original clips, the temp files, the final clips, and any converted video).

Trust me, serious DV editing and Photoshop will be a PAIN without adequately speedy components.

Of course, a DVD-writer will be recommended.

In the end, you'll probably end up spending around 70-80k baht... I'm thinking an Acer Aspire 1692WLMi with upgraded ram, upgraded HDD, and an external HDD.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

My father even strongly advised against an Apple Mac and he'll be seventy one this year.

You see how behind I am on computer terminology?

[The Gentleman Scamp]

I recently heard that it would be cheaper than Bangkok to buy a laptop (Apple still wins the polls) either in Seoul, S.Korea or the Heathrow Airport (tax free) branch of Dixons just outside London.

Is this likely to be true?

[astral]

Disk capacity, max memory and processor speed are some of the reasons

not to use notebook for video work.

Another is price!!

There are some very good video oriented notebooks from Sony,

but check out the prices. You should be able to put together a similar

desktop for 40,000 baht max.

[Firefoxx]

Let's sit down and take a look at the facts:

You want to professionally edit DV.

You want a notebook with a DVD writer.

You want to pay a maximum of 60k.

You could conceivably buy a 14" ibook with combo drive and add 1GB memory, but it would be quite underpowered (I've tried Final Cut Pro on an ibook... it wasn't fun). Not to mention you'd be paying around 80k (price outside Thailand, in Thailand it's quite a bit more).

Or you could buy a 15" powerbook and add some memory. About enough power, but you'd be paying more than 100k.

Or get the Acer Aspire 1692WLMi, add 2GB ram, and you'll have all that you need for around 70k.

Apples are nice if you have the money to spend. If not, go for the oranges.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Or get the Acer Aspire 1692WLMi, add 2GB ram, and you'll have all that you need for around 70k.

Okay let's run with this - it's about time I made a decision.

Don't anybody spoil my flow and come online to tell me Acer's are shit ok?

Thanks.

[Firefoxx]

Some people in this forum have had some bad experiences with some notebooks/computers, and will condemn the manufacturer as shit. Of course, you can't judge a whole line of products through several years by looking at a single model.

I personally have had good luck with quite a few Acer notebooks (no idea on desktops). They're middle-of-the-line, with good specs and good prices. Their warranty is 1 year int'l, and 3 years local. HP probably has a model that's similar, but I don't have any specs.

The 1692WLMi has the new sonoma chipset (serial-ata, dual-channel DDR2, PCI-express), a dvd-writer, an ATI radeon graphics card, and a 15" clearbrite display (similar to Sony's).

Edited April 21, 2005 by Firefoxx

[bino]

I have also had good luck with an Acer laptop. I bought it several years ago, when P4- 1.6 Ghz was top of the line. 10 months later I convinced my boss to buy it from me so that I could upgrade to a Compaq P4- 2.4 Ghz. He is still using the Acer to this day and has not had any problems.

The only problem I had with the Acer was a battery that stopped charging. I took it down to the Acer service centre in Pantip, and the guy pulled a battery out of a brand new laptop in the window, switched it for mine, and sent me happily on my way.

The Compaq on the other hand has been constant problem... replaced motherboard once (at about 1 year and 16 days old, warranty freshly expired) and the DVD/CDRW combo drive once. The Compaq HP service center in Bangkok at U Chu Liang building was a patience test, and required minimum 8 days to effect the repairs.

Makes me wish I'd kept the Acer!

[astral]

Let's sit down and take a look at the facts:

You want to professionally edit DV.

You want a notebook with a DVD writer.

You want to pay a maximum of 60k.

You could conceivably buy a 14" ibook with combo drive and add 1GB memory, but it would be quite underpowered (I've tried Final Cut Pro on an ibook... it wasn't fun).  Not to mention you'd be paying around 80k (price outside Thailand, in Thailand it's quite a bit more).

Or you could buy a 15" powerbook and add some memory.  About enough power, but you'd be paying more than 100k.

Or get the Acer Aspire 1692WLMi, add 2GB ram, and you'll have all that you need for around 70k.

Apples are nice if you have the money to spend.  If not, go for the oranges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With that sort of spec you could get a desktop for 30K!!

And have space to install 200Gb of disk, and you will need that once you start

playing with video in any serious way.

[Firefoxx]

Astral, Scamp's already given a reason why he wants a notebook in reply to my previous suggestion that he buy a desktop instead:

"I'm not based anywhere for more than a couple of months so a laptop is really the only option as I flit from Asia to U.K. finding what work I can and searching for contentement and the love of a good woman."

[pal78]

Somebody mentioned Apple? Okay, I'm not going to give you my life story, but basically if you buy an Apple Mac Powerbook you'll be very happy with it. I've had my 15" Powerbook for about 8 months now and it's true to say it's transformed how I feel about computers.

I've built and configured thousands of computers, installed windows and linux ... too many times to remember, and I've personally owned about 11 various PC's. I've years experience working with computers, and I've a degree in computer science. Bottom line is that now I don't have to be system administrator for my own computer anymore. My computer acts more like I'd expect it to. I don't know if other PC/Apple users can relate to this, maybe I've just gotten lucky, but I used to spend several hours a week (at least), and sometimes entire weekends reinstalling my computer, fixing problems that I don't think I created, updating virus software, downloading the 12th update for my graphics card in the hope that it will fix the glitches I've been experiencing and finding out that it creates a new problem: my sound no longer works. etc.

I have used Acer Laptops, and they are solid in my experience. Made in Taiwan, perhaps in the same factory as my Apple. I'm sure you'll be happy with it... but... a friend of mine bought a top of the range Acer at the same time I bought my Apple. And every time we discuss anything about computers he regrets that he didn't get an Apple. I think his exact words last time we talked about it were "Well... It just seems to work better."

Having said all that .. these sort of things are pretty subjective. Many people dislike Apple. If possible, if you haven't already done so, I'd recommend that you try to find an opportunity to play around with a Mac for a while, and see if you warm to its system.

[Firefoxx]

With Scamp's relative inexperience with computers, I probably would also recommend a Mac... if they weren't way beyond his budget.

I've been using PCs since the 8086 days... I've had problems with them, but never weekly problems. Maybe a small problem every month on average. I usually do a new format/install only when I have a major (mainboard/cpu) upgrade, which means once every few years (my current XP system was installed sometime in 2003). I know how to avoid all the virus/trojan/worm problems (haven't had one in a year now). In other words, PCs are quirky, but they aren't *that* bad.

On to a Mac... I was getting the "macs are superior" speech from my friend, as he was showing me a quicktime movie he'd created on his mac (an ibook, with osx). Lo and behold, it locked up on him. In other words, Macs are good but they aren't *that* great.

People in both camps tend to exaggerate things a bit (or more than a bit).

[pal78]

Firefoxx, yes, you are correct. Naturally not everyone will experience problems with their computer on a daily or weekly basis. Also, reinstalls about once a year are typical, but in my experience (Pre Windows XP) every 6 months was more realistic.

Perhaps I'm remembering years of experience with computer problems. It would be misleading to say that I didn't have any problems at all with my Mac, and sorry if I gave that impression. But I can say that I have a fraction of maintenance work with the mac.

[Khutan]

As I was buying a new laptop, let me share;

The two at the top of my list

Compaq nc6000 at full spec

or

IBM T45 also at full spec.

I had a preference towards the nc6000, and my wife wanted the T45, so we now have competing brands.

Things I also considered are the Chassis durability, real drop test data wnd what OEM parts are inside.

Beyond that they are generally intrechangable and it becomes a personal choice on Warranty and colour and available features.

I know its more than 30k baht. If I was buying a machine in that range I would get a BELTA. I know someone who has one, they are loaded with heaps of features.

Remember, most computers are only assembled OEM parts. No computer companies make ALL the components that go inside their hardware.

[webhost]

I would highly recommend the IBM range of notebooks due to their durability and reliability. The casing on IBM machines is by far the best out of all the manufacturers.

I used to prefer Compaq machines however since merging with Hewlett Packard, the quality of their notebook cases has dropped dramatically forcing us to use IBM exclusively as our preferred notebook supplier.

Acer machines are well priced, however they lack in terms of durability and appearance. I would stay clear of Compaq and Acer. IBM will provide the best overall value and performance, as well as having a strong service network worldwide.

[Firefoxx]

As you can see, the experiences and recommendations vary. It's nigh impossible to find any brand that someone somewhere *won't* denounce. But the only notebooks that fit your specs and come even close to your price range are from HP/Compaq, Acer, and Asus.

These days it's rare for any manufacturer to make their own notebooks. They're mostly outsourced to Taiwanese factories, many of which make notebooks for multiple brands. In other words, it's hard to find a company which makes *any* part of their notebook.

[Gary A]

I have an old IBM Thinkpad that just keeps going. It has never had a problem of any kind. Since I have had it a couple of my friends have had different brands. Both had problems and both have bought different lap tops due to their other machines not being reliable. I have no idea how long this one will last but since I only use it mainly for the Internet there is no sense to upgrade. It is a 300 mhz with 128 mb ram. It works great but is quite slow using large programs.

[Firefoxx]

Well, just in case people start to think that IBM thinkpads are invincible: I've seen one which had a faulty screen. Turned out to be a loose connection at the base. I've seen another which had ants crawl into the harddisk (and no, it wasn't because the user was unsanitary). Both were into their second year of use.

Basically, all notebooks can have problems. Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're not so lucky. Buying a notebook based on the brand alone is marketing at work, not common sense.

[bangbuathong]

Or get the Acer Aspire 1692WLMi, add 2GB ram, and you'll have all that you need for around 70k.

Okay let's run with this - it's about time I made a decision.

Don't anybody spoil my flow and come online to tell me Acer's are shit ok?

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Acer with Pentium M 2mb leve cache is nice!, overall centrino laptops are light, less heat problems, long battery life etc etc good for work and play, but still not ment for the demanding job of video editting, it looks like the best option : portable and powerfull

[bangbuathong]

Or get the Acer Aspire 1692WLMi, add 2GB ram, and you'll have all that you need for around 70k.

Okay let's run with this - it's about time I made a decision.

Don't anybody spoil my flow and come online to tell me Acer's are shit ok?

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Acer with Pentium M 2mb leve cache is nice!, overall centrino laptops are light, less heat problems, long battery life etc etc good for work and play, but still not ment for the demanding job of video editting, it looks like the best option : portable and powerfull

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

forgot to mention that it has pci express for graphics card what really does improve video editting

[Merlin]

I've had a good run with Toshiba [had a few of them] and I've got a Thinkpad now that's also going fine. But without going into a long rant about unreliability and a total lack of business ethics [broken promises etc], let's just say that I'll never buy another Compaq product again...