PattayaParent Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 <snip>Maybe he is reading this forum, but I doubt it. Just in case, his name is Phil and hers is May. I can confirm other details via pm if you think it may be you. You could tell him about this forum and let him find out for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaParent Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 why do these scenario typically assume that the other person can not attract a woman in his own country? It could be as simple as just liking a variety, or a change of culture.believe it or not, fat, old, balding, beer bellied men get women in their home countries too. Yes, but they get fat, old, balding, beer bellied women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbin Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Having been in this situation a couple of times the answer, on each occasion I told them. As the messenager I've also been shot for this - not literally yet I might add . It doesn't make life easy for you, but at least you can hold your head high.You may lose the guy's friendship as he resents you for knowing and telling him, and you may lose the "friendship" of others and be alienated. But if that's the kind of people they are have you really lost anything, and do you really want to be part of their world anyway? Much more important to be able to live with yourself, than contributing to lies and deceit, cheating another just so you can "fit in" and belong". When I look back I'm happy with my decisions. Rare indeed is the time you should put loyalty above integrity, and those that ask you to do so, are perhaps not worthy of your loyalty anyway. I like what you say 'fletchsmile', I can take the heat, but my poor innocent wife would have to run the gauntlet of all the 'hangers on' that benefited from the farang's generosity. Their 'golden goose' has stopped laying eggs and they'll want to blame someone. Unfortunately that would be my wife. Face is a big thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heng Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Doesn't matter if you tell him or not, natural selection has its way either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I can take the heat, but my poor innocent wife would have to run the gauntlet of all the 'hangers on' that benefited from the farang's generosity. Their 'golden goose' has stopped laying eggs and they'll want to blame someone. Unfortunately that would be my wife. Face is a big thing. It's a shame that your wife cares about the thoughts of those people. She shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf5370 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I think I would tell him - personally I couldn't give a rats arse what the family thought of me if I did - I would simply say that they would tell a Thai friend if a farand was cheating them, so why should I not do the same. They wouldn't accept this, of course, but like I said, I wouldn't give a rat's arse. They would be the loosers, not me. To my wife, if she was pissed off (mine wouldn't be as she knows me and is of a similar moral outlook) , I would say simply would she prefer an honest husband or a dishonest one? ...but that's me, I can supress my morales to some extent, but could not sit back and watch some poor sod being taken advantage of if I could help it. I have told people things before - like telling being about to pay a small fortune for glass and resin that they are being scammed and its junk and telling someone that was told there is 4 acres to a Rai (by his Mrs no less!) that it was incorrect and there are actually almost 3 rai to an acre! Oh, god, many times I've spoken up - and pissed off people, but I must admit they were all people that I didn't know well or at all, so tough titties. When my Thai school friend cheated on his Thai wife (my wife's aunt - this is how I met my wife), I didn't tell her, I had a long chat with him and said if he continued he hjad to tell her or I would tell my wife who definately would. He broke it off and all was well (for a couple of years then he did it again and got caught straight off the bat by his Mrs - the girl actually called his wife and boasted she was pregnant by him! - which was a lie - they divorce a few years back). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf5370 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Having been in this situation a couple of times the answer, on each occasion I told them. As the messenager I've also been shot for this - not literally yet I might add . It doesn't make life easy for you, but at least you can hold your head high.You may lose the guy's friendship as he resents you for knowing and telling him, and you may lose the "friendship" of others and be alienated. But if that's the kind of people they are have you really lost anything, and do you really want to be part of their world anyway? Much more important to be able to live with yourself, than contributing to lies and deceit, cheating another just so you can "fit in" and belong". When I look back I'm happy with my decisions. Rare indeed is the time you should put loyalty above integrity, and those that ask you to do so, are perhaps not worthy of your loyalty anyway. Yeah, my thoughts exactly! Well said Fletch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2muchcoffee Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) Having been in this situation a couple of times the answer, on each occasion I told them. As the messenager I've also been shot for this - not literally yet I might add . It doesn't make life easy for you, but at least you can hold your head high.You may lose the guy's friendship as he resents you for knowing and telling him, and you may lose the "friendship" of others and be alienated. But if that's the kind of people they are have you really lost anything, and do you really want to be part of their world anyway? Much more important to be able to live with yourself, than contributing to lies and deceit, cheating another just so you can "fit in" and belong". When I look back I'm happy with my decisions. Rare indeed is the time you should put loyalty above integrity, and those that ask you to do so, are perhaps not worthy of your loyalty anyway. Right on. Nice post. The idea of not helping another because it may (or may not) cause you inconvenience is anathema to me. If your wife loves you, and she has any moral fiber then she will accept your actions. If others in the family want to be liars and cheats it isn't your responsibility to protect them. Be honest. Be forthright. You need not hide your actions if you are morally and ethically correct. If the rest of the family shuns you, well, then it means they are not particularly good people. You can shun them just as easily as they shun you. And you will be right in doing so. Probably they will lose more in the long run. I grow tired of reading weak posts, written by weak people who refuse to do what is right simply because there may be personal hardship involved. Bear in mind that most Thai people wouldn't hesitate to share the bad news if the roles were reversed. Who is the more ethical? Edited October 30, 2009 by way2muchcoffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Instead of asking a bunch of bitter and twisted strangers on an anonymous internet forum, why don't you ask her why she has a Thai boyfriend ? Could it possibly be that she actually loves the Thai guy and will accept the silly Farang throwing money at her ?Scenario : You're a handsome 27 year old guy in UK, a much older woman travels thousands of miles to meet men because she can't attract a man in her own country, she meets you, she likes you, she gives you money, you already have an English GF who you love but this old woman keeps giving you money, in fact you don't have to go to work anymore cos this old woman gives you the equivalent of 10 times the national wage each month, tax free, she even hints at buying you a house and a car, and is willing to take care of your whole family, but you still love your English GF. What would you do ? I don't think you can really "love" someone if you're willing to have sex for money with other people...maybe i'm just old fashion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chokrai Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 To the OP Would Phils last name begin with a C by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancelot Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 You're a handsome 27 year old guy in UK, a much older woman travels thousands of miles to meet men because she can't attract a man in her own country, she meets you, she likes you, she gives you money, you already have an English GF who you love but this old woman keeps giving you money, in fact you don't have to go to work anymore cos this old woman gives you the equivalent of 10 times the national wage each month, tax free, she even hints at buying you a house and a car, and is willing to take care of your whole family, but you still love your English GF.What would you do ? I disagree with Maigo's analogy. However, as Devil's advocate, let me reverse the situation. How many decent English girls would accept that her beloved Englsih bf is a kept man and she is content to live off the proceeds of her boyfriend's "stipend" from his older woman? About as many as decent Thai men would accept their Thai gfs living off the proceeds of their relationship with an old foreigner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2muchcoffee Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) How many decent English girls would accept that her beloved Englsih bf is a kept man and she is content to live off the proceeds of her boyfriend's "stipend" from his older woman? About as many as decent Thai men would accept their Thai gfs living off the proceeds of their relationship with an old foreigner... Not a good comparison at all. The income disparities alone render your points invalid. I've met several 'decent' Thai men, of low income, who allow their wife to work in bars and take customers. Different culture. Different expectations. Different economic hardships. Doesn't mean the men are bad, or the women either. It is what it is. Borne of necessity, or at least of the desire for a slightly higher quality of life. Seems almost natural to me here. Back in our home countries it would be decidedly unnatural, as back home everyone has the opportunity to make a 'livable' wage that provides at least some of the luxuries that we take for granted as basic needs. Edited October 30, 2009 by way2muchcoffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbin Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 It's a shame that your wife cares about the thoughts of those people. She shouldn't.That is a western way of looking at things. Of course she cares, as these are the people she grew up with. If you understand Thais you'd know that it's frowned upon them to speak ill of people, even though they know, what they say, to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancelot Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) How many decent English girls would accept that her beloved Englsih bf is a kept man and she is content to live off the proceeds of her boyfriend's "stipend" from his older woman? About as many as decent Thai men would accept their Thai gfs living off the proceeds of their relationship with an old foreigner... Not a good comparison at all. The income disparities alone render your points invalid. I've met several 'decent' Thai men, of low income, who allow their wife to work in bars and take customers. Different culture. Different expectations. Different economic hardships. Doesn't mean the men are bad, or the women either. It is what it is. Borne of necessity, or at least of the desire for a slightly higher quality of life. Seems almost natural to me here. Back in our home countries it would be decidedly unnatural, as back home everyone has the opportunity to make a 'livable' wage that provides at least some of the luxuries that we take for granted as basic needs. And I still disagree. Many decent Thai women work several jobs instead of going to work in the bars. Many decent Thai men do the same to support their gf/wives/families. Different culture? I don't think so. More like a few opportunistic people that happen to be Thai. Edited October 30, 2009 by Lancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocStrangelove Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 So it sounds like your wife comes from a good family. Is this how she got interested in dating you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2muchcoffee Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) And I still disagree.. No harm, no foul. We are all entitled to our opinions. I can respect that. I would, respectfully, suggest that you try walking a mile in a low-income Thai man's shoes before you castigate them. Feel the poverty, with no hope of betterment. No way out. No chances. This is where we Westerners fail in our empathy. We, as Westerners, always have options and hope. This simply isn't true for the lower-class Thais. Poverty has harsh consequences. It leads to behaviors that may otherwise be viewed as immoral or low. I'm not sure that any Westerner, no matter how modest their upbringing, can truly comprehend the feelings, passions, sacrifices, choices, and pain in the daily life of the poor of Thailand. I can't even imagine a life without hope. For this reason I try to make allowances for the behaviors I see in those who are in this situation. Edited October 30, 2009 by way2muchcoffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbin Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) No harm, no foul. We are all entitled to our opinions. I can respect that. I would, respectfully, suggest that you try walking a mile in a low-income Thai man's shoes before you castigate them. Feel the poverty, with no hope of betterment. No way out. No chances. This is where we Westerners fail in our empathy. We, as Westerners, always have options and hope. This simply isn't true for the lower-class Thais. Poverty has harsh consequences. It leads to behaviors that may otherwise be viewed as immoral or low.Hold on 'way2muchcoffee' I lived in the UK for many a year well below the average wage with no chance of bettering my income other that longer hours or a second job. That applied to both myself and my exwife. Not once did we ever concider enhancing our life by illegal means, prostitution is one, but here in Thailand it seems second nature in one way or another. I blame this on Thai males who, I find, to be lazy and always looking for the easy option ie the wife, or g/f, to support him. Edited October 30, 2009 by sinbin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf5370 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 How many decent English girls would accept that her beloved Englsih bf is a kept man and she is content to live off the proceeds of her boyfriend's "stipend" from his older woman? About as many as decent Thai men would accept their Thai gfs living off the proceeds of their relationship with an old foreigner... Not a good comparison at all. The income disparities alone render your points invalid. I've met several 'decent' Thai men, of low income, who allow their wife to work in bars and take customers. Different culture. Different expectations. Different economic hardships. Doesn't mean the men are bad, or the women either. It is what it is. Borne of necessity, or at least of the desire for a slightly higher quality of life. Seems almost natural to me here. Back in our home countries it would be decidedly unnatural, as back home everyone has the opportunity to make a 'livable' wage that provides at least some of the luxuries that we take for granted as basic needs. And I still disagree. Many decent Thai women work several jobs instead of going to work in the bars. Many decent Thai men do the same to support their gf/wives/families. Different culture? I don't think so. More like a few opportunistic people that happen to be Thai. I was sitting in Guitarman (CM) a few weeks ago. The police were called becuase a Thaiman came in, mid 40's I'd say, and started having and arguement with two Thai woman and a farang male. The police took them all outside and there was a 'sort of' private chat in the middle of the soi. Later the women and farang went back to their table and the Thai guy sat in the corner next one table across. He said something to me I couldn't hear, so I sat opposite him and we chatted mostly in Thai as he knew little English. Anyway, it turned out that one woman was a freind/aunt (it changed so not sure which one) of the other, who was his wife (village marriage not amphur) - they had been married for over 5 years and he obviously still loved her. According to him his wife's friend/aunt had told her about the money she can make being friendly with farang on holiday (and I guess expats too) and she had decided to go for it - choosing a steriotypically fat old bloke (she was perhaps late 30's though looked a little younger at a push). He didn't take oit well and wanted her to stop, she wanted the cash. So, at least as far as I am concerned, not all Thai men are happy for their wives to prostitute themselves even when they are poor - and this guy obviously was (and he told me so too - I believed him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2muchcoffee Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 The difference is that you can get another job or extra hours in Western countries. Part time jobs are available. A typical job in the West does not demand 10 hours per day and 6-7 days per week paying only 5000-7000 bt/month. What's that, $200? Try supporting a wife and two kids on that kind of money. Try sleeping on the floor every night for your entire life. Try making the choice between food on the table or school books or medicine for your children. Not just once, but every day for all of your life. This the plight of many, many Thai people. The Thai males I know whose wives work or worked in a bar certainly don't like it. They resent it like hel_l. But they do what they do in order to ensure the survival of themselves, their primary family, and their extended families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2muchcoffee Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Hold on 'way2muchcoffee' I lived in the UK for many a year well below the average wage with no chance of bettering my income other that longer hours or a second job. That applied to both myself and my exwife. Not once did we ever concider enhancing our life by illegal means, prostitution is one, but here in Thailand it seems second nature in one way or another. I blame this on Thai males who, I find, to be lazy and always looking for the easy option ie the wife, or g/f, to support him. The fact of the matter is that you did have opportunities to improve your life, or you wouldn't be writing on this forum today. What more can I say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubby Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Lets be Honest . Its not exactly an uncommon occurence here. I know quite a few Guys in the same situation. One Guy doesn't Care or doesn't want to know; Another knows but doesn't care; Another knows but does care and complains and bitches about it but always comes back for more and the other is completely oblivious as he's always pissed up. In my albeit limited experience I'd say he probably wouldn't thank you for it. You'd also be the bad Guy in the local community . I've learn't to keep my mouth shut and keep smiling. I used to think the Women where complete Bitches but over the years I've began to understand them and even dare I say it respect them. The Guys on the other hand .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbin Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 not all Thai men are happy for their wives to prostitute themselves even when they are poor - and this guy obviously was (and he told me so too - I believed him).I agree, but to believe a Thai when it's second nature to 'not be honest with the truth' is a little extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teatree Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 HiMy wife's aunty is 2 timing a bloke from England. She has a Thai boyfried who goes away when the English man comes over. She also has another Aussie man who she looks after, but I am not sure if there is a sexual relationship there. I have only met the English guy once, before the Thai man come on the scene, and he is a nice guy who has been burned before. I want to let him know at least, but all hel_l will break lose if they find out it was me. Would you tell? (if you are an english plumber who goes to Thailand you had better get your pipes checked) Could the Thai be a relative? A brother perhaps? You said you weren't sure if the Aussie had a sexual realtionship with her, so have you seen her at it with the Thai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandLovr Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) My ex Thai wife told me some time ago the "low hanging fruit" which a farang offers is very often simply too tempting for a Thai woman of modest means and perhaps also her husband/bf to resist. They rationalize it away. She said to me, "after all, it's just sex." I've never forgotten the casualness of her reply. Edited October 30, 2009 by ThailandLovr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantiSuk Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Having been in this situation a couple of times the answer, on each occasion I told them. As the messenager I've also been shot for this - not literally yet I might add . It doesn't make life easy for you, but at least you can hold your head high.You may lose the guy's friendship as he resents you for knowing and telling him, and you may lose the "friendship" of others and be alienated. But if that's the kind of people they are have you really lost anything, and do you really want to be part of their world anyway? Much more important to be able to live with yourself, than contributing to lies and deceit, cheating another just so you can "fit in" and belong". When I look back I'm happy with my decisions. Rare indeed is the time you should put loyalty above integrity, and those that ask you to do so, are perhaps not worthy of your loyalty anyway. Agreed, but tell the wife and aunty first that you disapprove of their duplicity and that you are going to tell the farang - unless they can think of some more graceful way of letting the farang down. Someones already said this no doubt on page 3 (which I did not get to) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shah Jahan Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 she will just double down on her lie, give him a nice rimmer and blame it all on you after he confeesses that you have been putting these 'ideas' in his head. stay out of it. (or dont listen and watch exactly the above happen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venturalaw Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 she will just double down on her lie, give him a nice rimmer and blame it all on you after he confeesses that you have been putting these 'ideas' in his head.stay out of it. (or dont listen and watch exactly the above happen) But at least the OP did the right thing by telling all. If the bloke from the UK doesn't believe it, then it's all on him. At least he was warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 she will just double down on her lie, give him a nice rimmer and blame it all on you after he confeesses that you have been putting these 'ideas' in his head.stay out of it. (or dont listen and watch exactly the above happen) Not to mention turning on the waterwoks. Agree with the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venturalaw Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) she will just double down on her lie, give him a nice rimmer and blame it all on you after he confeesses that you have been putting these 'ideas' in his head.stay out of it. (or dont listen and watch exactly the above happen) Not to mention turning on the waterwoks. Agree with the above. I had a Thai woman once playing around behind my back. I only WISH someone had told me. It would have saved a lot of time, grief and money. As I said, even if the person blindly goes on believing a follow up deception by the cheating woman, at least he has been warned. It's the right thing to do and that is what matters. Ask yourself the obvious question - Would you want to know? Some people don't, most however do want to be told. Either way, you provide the person being deceived with the choice. Edited November 1, 2009 by venturalaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thongkorn Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 HiMy wife's aunty is 2 timing a bloke from England. She has a Thai boyfried who goes away when the English man comes over. She also has another Aussie man who she looks after, but I am not sure if there is a sexual relationship there. I have only met the English guy once, before the Thai man come on the scene, and he is a nice guy who has been burned before. I want to let him know at least, but all hel_l will break lose if they find out it was me. Would you tell? (if you are an english plumber who goes to Thailand you had better get your pipes checked) If you do it make shore you are in the Uk, maybe you will live a little longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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