Experience

[monty]

I'll try to describe the situation as exact as possible:

We have a resort, entirely dedicated/customized towards the needs of disabled travelers.

This goes from light disabilities up to quadriplegics.

One of our regular (Australian) customers, himself a quadriplegic (i.e limited use of upper arms and very little use of lower arms/hands, and fully paralyzed from lower torso downwards) will be embarking on a promotion/awareness tour throughout Australia.

Both to obviously promote the resort and also to create awareness of the fact that Thailand can be a very enjoyable holiday destination, even for people with very low mobility.

Now he would like to take one of our staff along with him. Both for promotional reasons and also as his personal assistant, which he needs during travels (she is trained for that purpose, but holds no official qualifications).

It looks as the 3 month business visa is best suited for her.

She is 23 years old, single mother, registered employee at the resort, but at a relatively low wage. She owns land upcountry, clear land title deed in her name. The resort (the Co.,Ltd. owning and operating the place) will obviously sponsor all her expenses.

We also have a registered partnership in Australia under the exact same name as the Thai Co., Ltd. initially set up to handle promotion, bookings etc. at the Australian side. This company could also guarantee her expenses in Australia.

We are also in close contact with the Tourist Authority, working on setting up a separate program to promote travel for disabled people.

The local (region 3) TAT director has written a letter on official TAT letterhead stating that the TAT has inspected the resort and is fully endorsing us as disabled traveler specialized, confirming that our staff member will go to Australia to promote travel for disabled people, in line with TAT policy.

And kindly asking the Australian embassy for cooperation with issuing a business visa to our staff member for that reason.

Anybody an idea on our chance of obtaining said visa, and maybe tips to give us a better chance?

The idea is that after a few overseas travels to Australia and local Asian countries (setting precedent of reliably returning to her home country) to then tackle the promotion in other parts of the world, including Europe and the USA (biggest market!).

[gburns57au]

I take it you are looking at a sub class 456 visa which allows for a 3 month stay.

How is it that a client is promoting your company and not you and then requires your staff member to be his PA?

It sounds to me and this maybe how the Department will see it, is that he wants this girl to come along as a carer/companion....in which case you may have some problems.

I think you need to address the reason for the trip very carefully.

[monty]

Which is why I posted here!

Never done anything like this...

Actually the client was so convinced of the concept that he has become a major shareholder!

Indeed the class 456 visa, which IMO is a bit ambiguous, as you are not allowed to work, but you are allowed to go to meetings, conventions and generally make business contacts.

To me that means there is a fine line between working and promoting, hard to say where you would cross this line.

Maybe it would be easier going for a tourist visa?

The guy can easily guarantee her visit as he has a multi-million AUS $ bank account/investment portfolio (insurance lump sum pay-out after car crash). Along with her proven reasons to return to Thailand (job, family, property).

[gburns57au]

Not sure on the difference between working and promoting but I feel it would be something like....

If she was visiting travel agents and giving out brochures and business cards etc....then that would be promoting and allowable.....The problem here is that there is an Oz arm of the company that could be doing that, so thats a factor. Remember she can not do something that an Ozzie could be doing.

If she were going around and selling tickets or taking money for tours then that would be working and not allowable.

Again with the tourist visa, she would need to show she is a genuine tourist and not a PA or carer......

Perhaps Bridge could assist more with this along the lines of a visa for a carer

Edited November 1, 2009 by gburns57au

[monty]

Just as an update, might be useful for others.

We decided to try for a tourist visa, as the person applying for the visa likely would be refused a business visa due to lacking a high enough level of education.

Did all the paperwork, lodged the application which was duly accepted. One stumbling block seemed to be that an Australian person apparently is not allowed to sponsor a tourist unless they have a de-facto relationship. Which is a bit weird, and very unlike the requirements for most European countries.

Anyway, they decided to accept the application based on the fact that the sponsoring person was a rather well of Australian national of good standing.

Sometime during the next few days, the applicant received a phonecall from the Embassy, asking her more info on the relationship between her and the guarantor.

Even though we briefed the applicant to be 100% truthful, she somehow managed to mess up when asked when she first met the guarantor. On which she answered last year, which should have been last month!

A few days later she received her passport back, along with the reason for the denial of her application, which literally stated that she lied on the time she met the guarantor (they checked immigration records, which showed that the guarantor did not leave Australia last year).

And that this is an offense and as such the rest of her application was considered untruthful...

[gburns57au]

Just as an update, might be useful for others.

We decided to try for a tourist visa, as the person applying for the visa likely would be refused a business visa due to lacking a high enough level of education.

Did all the paperwork, lodged the application which was duly accepted. One stumbling block seemed to be that an Australian person apparently is not allowed to sponsor a tourist unless they have a de-facto relationship. Which is a bit weird, and very unlike the requirements for most European countries.

Anyway, they decided to accept the application based on the fact that the sponsoring person was a rather well of Australian national of good standing.

Sometime during the next few days, the applicant received a phonecall from the Embassy, asking her more info on the relationship between her and the guarantor.

Even though we briefed the applicant to be 100% truthful, she somehow managed to mess up when asked when she first met the guarantor. On which she answered last year, which should have been last month!

A few days later she received her passport back, along with the reason for the denial of her application, which literally stated that she lied on the time she met the guarantor (they checked immigration records, which showed that the guarantor did not leave Australia last year).

And that this is an offense and as such the rest of her application was considered untruthful...

Dear oh dear.....that was messy wasnt it?

I dont know where you got the guarantor thing from, there is no requirement for a sponsor for a tourist visa.

When applying for a tourist visa there is no requirement to prove relationships...they only need to show that they have actually known the person providing funds or that they will be staying with for at least 6 months prior to applying, although some have been approved on a 4 month friendship. It is unlikely that she would have been approved after only a 1 month friendship.

Three criteria need to be met for a tourist visa, they are:

The applicant must be a genuine tourist or visitor

The applicant must have or have access to sufficient funds for the duration of the stay

The applicant must be able to demonstrate a reason to return to their home country.

There is a section on the application form that allows for an Additional Funds Provider.

A covering letter or stat dec can be attached by the funds provider stating the reason for the travel and the extent of support for the applicant in regards accommodation, medical expenses etc...

The other point I find it hard to come to grips with is the requirement for a high level of education for a business visa.....She is employed by the company already and as such would be considered experienced or educated to the level required to do the job. If she is approved for a business visa, I dont think it matters where and with who she would be staying.

Anyway, what can be done now??

She can appeal the decision

She can wait and try again in about 6 months but it will harder for her next time.

Reminder for everyone reading this and embarking on a visa process......Always be honest in your dealings with the Embassy...Thai people especially the women are not very good at telling lies to people in positions of authority regardless of how much coaching you give them.

[monty]

I dont know where you got the guarantor thing from, there is no requirement for a sponsor for a tourist visa.

Well, the below is what is stated on the Embassy's website:

Where someone is supporting your application you should provide evidence of your relationship, for example, evidence of contact / relationship with the person supporting the application, for example, letters with original envelopes, emails, telephone bills, photographs and money transfers

Which to me sounds more then just being "friends"

It is indeed not a requirement, but as you yourself state they will take into consideration a sponsor/guarantor, and space is provided on the application to do so.

And yes, you are very correct in stating that being honest is the most important thing!

The denial letter is written stating that having made untruthful declarations is what effectively caused the denial.

Lesson learned!

[gburns57au]

Where someone is supporting your application you should provide evidence of your relationship, for example, evidence of contact / relationship with the person supporting the application, for example, letters with original envelopes, emails, telephone bills, photographs and money transfers

It means exactly what it says

Where someone is supporting the application.........it does not state girlfriend or de facto. Being a friend is also a relationship. The purpose of the 676 visa is for holidays and tourism and/or to visit family and friends. Many people come here under their own steam without assistance because they can meet the criteria, they dont have sponsors or Additional funds providers.

An additional funds provider is not a sponsor/guarantor....it is merely someone who is prepared to fund the applicantshould the applicant not have sufficient funds. There is no responsiblity on behalf of the funds provider to ensure that applicant abides by the visa conditions. For instance an applicant can come over and stay with a friend, another friend can be the Additional funds provider, neither have any responsibility to ensure the applicant does the right thing.

Edited November 10, 2009 by gburns57au

[monty]

As an update:

The person re-applied last week for her tourist visa.

Main difference compared to the previous application was the inclusion of pictures of her and the sponsor (touristy type), phonecall records of him to her and more money in her Thai bank (approx 30,000 Baht, equiv. of 1000 Aus$) and a copy of her Bkk Bank visa debit card as proof she could draw on those funds if needed while in Australia.

The embassy did call again to her, requesting her to write a letter explaining on why she was untruthful on the last application regarding on how long she knew her sponsor (put down as an honest mistake being nervous), what exactly her relationship was to him, they actually advised her in a friendly way that being boyfriend/girlfriend would be best.

Along with writing that on approval she would buy a confirmed round trip ticket (non was booked at time of application).

This letter was duly faxed to the embassy an hour after the call, and 2 days later her passport including confirmed visa arrived by express mail!

So as some afterthoughts:

When they deny an application they'll give the reason(s). If you think you have addressed those issues properly, do put in a new application. We were sceptical on our second application, as being unthruthfull on a visa application is taken very serious, yet they offered her to give an explanation and accepted it, then considered the application on the merit of the new material/evidence given. And approved.

And a second though, to me, as I posted before, it seems they do give more weight to the credibility of the sponsor when you can prove you are in a relationship, more then just being friends/acquaintances.

[monty]

And the coveted sticker:

[gburns57au]

First off....congrats on the visa.

A much better application this time.