Young Children Travelling With Parents

[Ulysses G.]

Today, I was having a quiet lunch in a small vegetarian restaurant when a family of four came in. The children were tiny, and very cute and full of energy.

The first thing they did was go jump on the restaurant's only fan and kept horsing around with it until their mother got around to stopping them about 5 minutes later. It was quite hot at that time of day and I was not pleased as every time the mother stopped blocking it they stopped it from working again.

The mother started asking if they had certain dishes without looking at the menu and the waitress said no, but she could run and buy some.

The kids were not bad as kids go, but the whole time they were there they were running around the restaurant causing mischief and the mother only intervened every once in a while. The father ignored everything and did not say a word.

Thankfully, my food was ready so I just bolted it down and got out as soon as I could, but I could not help thinking that they were causing a similar scene everywhere they went and inconveniencing other travelers and the kids are too young to remember the trip at all.

Is it just selfishness for parents to bring young children traveling around the world or is it justified somehow?

[Moonrakers]

Despite being a Father I am not a fan of kids myself in general.

Because of this I am very conscious of other people when in a public place with my daughter, places such as kids pools or playgrounds are the places to let your kids cause havoc and adults should remember that, whereas in places such as restaurants the parents should be considerate to the other patrons.

It isn't just people traveling but people in general who either have manners or they don't.

[gotlost]

Excellent reason for the justification of birth control!

[Scott]

It sometimes requires a bit of extra energy to tolerate other people's children. Mine were cute, funny, entertaining and brilliant...everyone elses were spoiled, misbehaved and not very smart. So, I think parents don't always see the problem. Try to be tolerant, sometimes the parents go out to eat because they are exhausted.

I once had an obnoxious little kid in the seat behind me on a 20+ hour flight. Little bugger kept kicking my seat. I absolutely could have wacked him after about 6 hours. I finally decided to turn around and talk to him for a while. We played peek-a-boo and what is it. We looked at pictures in the magazine (he was hanging over the seat). He was really a sweet kid, eventually fell asleep and the rest of the flight was uneventful. His mother seemed quite thankful as well.

Patience, patience....and if that fails, do what you did and leave quickly.

[bangsaenguy]

Patience? They shouldn't be allowed on flights; at least the ones that I'm on. Why should paying passengers have to put up with some brat kicking their seat or screaming or running up and down the aisles? Did I mention that I don't like kids?

[chriswatson]

Today, I was having a quiet lunch in a small vegetarian restaurant when a family of four came in. The children were tiny, and very cute and full of energy.

The first thing they did was go jump on the restaurant's only fan and kept horsing around with it until their mother got around to stopping them about 5 minutes later. It was quite hot at that time of day and I was not pleased as every time the mother stopped blocking it they stopped it from working again.

The mother started asking if they had certain dishes without looking at the menu and the waitress said no, but she could run and buy some.

The kids were not bad as kids go, but the whole time they were there they were running around the restaurant causing mischief and the mother only intervened every once in a while. The father ignored everything and did not say a word.

Thankfully, my food was ready so I just bolted it down and got out as soon as I could, but I could not help thinking that they were causing a similar scene everywhere they went and inconveniencing other travelers and the kids are too young to remember the trip at all.

Is it just selfishness for parents to bring young children traveling around the world or is it justified somehow?

Two different issues here and not sure of the link between the two? Bad behaviour of children reflects poorly on the parents, but traveling with young children does not mean they will misbehave.

I used to travel a lot when I was very young because my family was fairly large and I guess it wasn't f fair on the rest of my siblings not to have summer holidays because I'd be too young to remember the trip. I've taken my own offspring traveling and they enjoyed it, but not sure if they really will "remember it" - although in this day and age we have home video to at least remind them.

I don't remember myself being badly behaved (certainly no more than I am now) and I haven't seen it in my own. I get more concerned about parents taking their six-month-old to music festivals here in the UK, because it is obvious the benefit of going is strictly for the parents and there are not going to get the best amenities for their baby should it get ill in a field of mud surrounded by cider-crazed coke heads.

Even taking a six-month-old to Thailand seems reasonable if visiting extended family, but not sure a round-the-world trip would be a good idea. But it's really none of my business.

When I were a lad you had to stand outside the pub with a bottle of pop if Dad went in for a beer. For many reasons, and not just because of the endless march of consumerism, you can't leave kids outside "where they belong" on their own any more. I remember playing pool in some British pub, pulling back the cue to take a pot and glanced behind me just in time to stop myself passing the cue through the eye and face of a six year old standing directly behind me.

Gave me the fright of my life - what was a kid doing there? - and of course the childs tattooed-up old man went ballistic at me for not being more careful (the cue didn't touch the child and the child was under age to be inside the pub according to the law of the day) to which I had to use all my resolve not to wrap the stick around the Dad's head.

I really hate bad manners and ignorance in people, but I'm more concerned with adults rather than kids. I am even more concerned about getting an assault charge.

Edited November 1, 2009 by chriswatson

[gvallee2]

When i was a kid, i was jealous of all my friends at school who had time out and traveled everywhere..

now being older and a parent i know that parents bringing their kid around are simply retarded, not only does it annoy everyone including themselves, its a waste of money(the kids usualy won't remember more than 1% of it like me goin g to disneyland at 11, i dont remember more than 2-3 images), its also very annoying again.

Touristy places are mostly for people to get away from the annoying things in life, it kills me when people bring their kid.. i mean unless you've got a really clever and calm kid, think about the rest of the world for once.

[yabaaaa]

I always like the way people with kids assume its normal behaviour and we should accept it. YOU chose to have them.

[Briggsy]

Good post, chriswatson.

I'm not that old and the other week my mum was recalling leaving us kids alone at home for the weekend while they had to go and clear out another property when the oldest was 11. Never bothered me. Bloody 'ell if they did that now, they'd be social pariahs.

[smokie36]

Most kids today are lacking these social skills due to rarely sitting down to a family meal at home. Its no wonder they don't know how to behave in this setting.

[Heng]

It's the children that don't get to travel who end up as square pegs, IMO. Although I'd say age 5 and up is about a good a time as any to start, and no, they don't need to be jaunting all over the world. Frequent local trips and maybe one trip abroad per year. Before that, I'd call that more like the parents wanting to travel themselves.

[smokie36]

It's the children that don't get to travel who end up as square pegs, IMO. Although I'd say age 5 and up is about a good a time as any to start, and no, they don't need to be jaunting all over the world. Frequent local trips and maybe one trip abroad per year. Before that, I'd call that more like the parents wanting to travel themselves.

More important to spend regular quality time with your kids than flying around the globe. Many of us never took foreign hols as kids and turned out fine.

If anything it leaves new experiences to enjoy as an adult.

[LazyYogi]

I don't have a problem with kids traveling (assuming the parents can keep them under control).

What I can't for the life of me understand is how folks can take an infant on a long-haul flight. The last time I was at the Great Buddha of Kamakura, there was a western lady breastfeeding her newborn baby. The kid didn't look more than a couple weeks old.

[chriswatson]

It's the children that don't get to travel who end up as square pegs, IMO. Although I'd say age 5 and up is about a good a time as any to start, and no, they don't need to be jaunting all over the world. Frequent local trips and maybe one trip abroad per year. Before that, I'd call that more like the parents wanting to travel themselves.

More important to spend regular quality time with your kids than flying around the globe. Many of us never took foreign hols as kids and turned out fine.

If anything it leaves new experiences to enjoy as an adult.

Flying round the globe would presumably allow parents to spend quality time with their kids AND broaden the kids horizons (as per both your and Heng's points), wouldn't it?

[YoungNRich12]

Who cares?

[Heng]

It's the children that don't get to travel who end up as square pegs, IMO. Although I'd say age 5 and up is about a good a time as any to start, and no, they don't need to be jaunting all over the world. Frequent local trips and maybe one trip abroad per year. Before that, I'd call that more like the parents wanting to travel themselves.

More important to spend regular quality time with your kids than flying around the globe. Many of us never took foreign hols as kids and turned out fine.

If anything it leaves new experiences to enjoy as an adult.

Flying round the globe would presumably allow parents to spend quality time with their kids AND broaden the kids horizons (as per both your and Heng's points), wouldn't it?

Yeah, if you don't have quality time at home, it's unlikely you'll be doing much travelling at all.

[Ijustwannateach]

There's an old Japanese saying, 'if you love your children, make them travel.'

[chriswatson]

Slightly similar to the old Brit saying "children should be seen but not heard" as you drop them off at the airport

Edited November 1, 2009 by chriswatson

[Heng]

There's an old Japanese saying, 'if you love your children, make them travel.'

There are similar Chinese sayings. Life's necessities: food, shelter, clothing, medicine, travel.

[IanForbes]

It sometimes requires a bit of extra energy to tolerate other people's children. Mine were cute, funny, entertaining and brilliant...everyone elses were spoiled, misbehaved and not very smart. So, I think parents don't always see the problem. Try to be tolerant, sometimes the parents go out to eat because they are exhausted.

I once had an obnoxious little kid in the seat behind me on a 20+ hour flight. Little bugger kept kicking my seat. I absolutely could have wacked him after about 6 hours. I finally decided to turn around and talk to him for a while. We played peek-a-boo and what is it. We looked at pictures in the magazine (he was hanging over the seat). He was really a sweet kid, eventually fell asleep and the rest of the flight was uneventful. His mother seemed quite thankful as well.

Patience, patience....and if that fails, do what you did and leave quickly.

Good post, Scott. I pretty much do the same anywhere I go. My own (now grown) kids call me "the Child Whisperer" because I can relate to kids and they seem to like me.

But, I have to agree with Ulysses that some parents need a whack in the head for allowing their children to run wild and annoy others. They have no clue how to raise children with manners. Some restaurants do not even allow children for that very reason. There are many "family oriented" restaurants where children are welcome, and no need to take children to a fancier place.

However, I do believe that Thailand is a lot different than the western world, and children are given more freedom to sort of raise themselves. It is evident when you see children of 10 or 12 years old riding motorcycles in traffic... and of course... the resulting accidents and death toll.

[Brigante7]

The problem isn't whether the kids are well behaved or not, it's the fact that badly behaved kids are badly behaved because the parents can't be bothered to get of their back-sides to keep them under control.

As for kids traveling on long haul flights, my wife and I took our 4 month old son to Thailand and my biggest worry was if he would be OK on the flight as I know that there is nothing worse than a screaming kid on a long haul flight. Luckily our son took it all in his stride but the same can't be said for the family next to us with a 3 year old that they proceeded to give coca-cola and sugary sweets to the whole flight and as such was bouncing of the walls and running up and down the aisles like a headless chicken not that his parents were bothered and just left him to it.

Like most parents I had no idea how my son would handle the flight, but even before I had kids I had no problem with a baby/small child crying on a plane if the parents were making an effort to calm the child down, it's the parents who didn't care that pissed me off and that for me is the difference, the parents who care that their child's crying annoys other people.

Brigante7.

[garyh]

Sounds like a rather severe case of grumpy old man syndrome.

[Daewoo]

I think there are two completely different arguments here…

One is the behaviour of the kids… or poor parenting skills of their parents…

I think in today's society of busy lives, parenting skills and discipline has really fallen away… parents are too lazy to discipline a child effectively… it takes a lot of consistent effort to discipline a child properly… and no effort at all to just let them do what they want… My wife is an early childhood teacher (degree qualified) as are many of her friends… you would be surprised (or not) how many of them with FORMAL education in the cognitive process of children, do the exact opposite of anything sensible… pity the ones with no education at all… not forgetting that we are probably only now getting to the big numbers of a generation of parents coming from dysfunctional homes and broken homes...

Parents are often too concerned about being embarrassed to discipline a child in public (either causing a scene or the attitude of other adults if, heaven help, they struck a child)… also, you can not let a child live completely without rules at home, and expect them to be able to be disciplined into proper behaviour in public… it doesn't work like that… Children need to develop in a world of proper structure and expectations, so that when they are out of their normal world, they have a solid foundation or reference…

Thirdly, when I was growing up, I am sure I was a handful… at 7 I was on Ritalin before anyone knew what ADHD was, to get Ritalin I had to see a professor at the Children's Hospital twice a month, and each prescription needed to be co-signed by the Federal Minister for Health… my point being, as fars as ADHD kids went, I was a child prodigy)... my mum had to drag three kids along everywhere she went, and you know what would happen if I got out of line… some other grumpy old man would grab me by the collar… tell me I was doing the wrong thing, that I should listen to my mother, that I was making things hard for her, ad to behave… no other person of course would ever have hit me, but that didn't mean (in that day and age) it was inappropriate to disciplining another person child… I do it now (I did it yesterday at the park when I saw one child ruin another's sandcastle)… of course I would never touch another persons child in discipline now, unless they were directly impacting on my own child… Maybe the OP, and the rest of us, should think about OUR role in society, and where we can help ensure all kids know what is acceptable… because by the time they are 15, hanging round drugged out and abusing passing grandmothers, it is too late… I encourage others to do stand up and tell a child their behaviour is unacceptable…

I don't think that a child shoould negatively impact on another persons enjoyment of something anymore than necessary, excspting the fact that we are all part of society, and need to accept that other members of society impact everything we do (and vice-versa)...

If anyone wants to see if our parenting is working, we will be in Phuket Nov 13-18 and Krabi Nov 18-23 ...

I think the second part of the OPs argument is about travelling with children…

I am about to embark on my first OS holiday with my kids… I know that in 10 years time, they won't remember anything about it… but I want them to be happy today, and in 5 years time… it isn't all about something for 15 years in the future… (my 5 year old still often brings up good and bad experiences from when he was 2)...

I love travelling in Thailand, and I don't want my wife and kids to miss out on it… it isn't right or proper to leave the kids with a babysitter for a couple of weeks so the parents can travel alone… and the reason most of us didn't have OS holidays growing up was because it was far too expensive… My father was an executive with Qantas, and as a family we could travel anywhere in the world, first class for free… I was 15 before I traveled OS to Fiji, because even with free airfares it was still to expensive… instead we spent every other weekend squashed into the back of Dad's Landcruiser and in a tent (and loved it)…

Kids are little sponges, and they absorb everything that goes on around them… sure when they are 20 they won't remember seeing an elephant in Thailand (although I remember the Donkey at Oodnadatta from when I was 7, when my stupid father loaded 5 of us into a 3 seater Landcruiser and drove for 6 weeks through the desert to Ayers Rock (Uularu)… but seeing another culture at 3 or 5, will, give them an understanding of the way the world is bigger than they few hundred square meters that revolves around them… about poor and rich… about other families… about languages other than English… it is all about creating a better, more rounded child… (and allowing parents to continue to have a life after birth)…

Hope I made some sense in there somewhere…

Cheers,

Daewoo

Edited November 1, 2009 by Daewoo

[PattayaParent]

I don't have a problem with kids traveling (assuming the parents can keep them under control).

What I can't for the life of me understand is how folks can take an infant on a long-haul flight. The last time I was at the Great Buddha of Kamakura, there was a western lady breastfeeding her newborn baby. The kid didn't look more than a couple weeks old.

Maybe 'cos the kid is born overseas and they're taking it to see the grandparents?

Like in my case where my mother was on her deathbed and wanted to see her only grandchild before she died.

In the case of family holidays maybe the parents don't have family members they can dump the kids on while they go off on their own.

Edited November 2, 2009 by PattayaParent

[harrry]

Maybe the trouble is the kids do nt have a book to read. Or they are not allowed to read at the table.

Or maybe the parents need to read a book on child rearing...a heavy one and then apply book liberally to kids bottoms when they misbehave.

Maybe you missed a sales oportunity.

[cyb]

Patience? They shouldn't be allowed on flights; at least the ones that I'm on. Why should paying passengers have to put up with some brat kicking their seat or screaming or running up and down the aisles? Did I mention that I don't like kids?

There is nothing wrong with kids i used to go to school with them.

Don't suppose there is much chance of quote of the day for that lol

[neverdie]

I always like the way people with kids assume its normal behaviour and we should accept it. YOU chose to have them.

Yes, its so true that some parents seem to lose almost all touch with reality when it comes to their badly behaved little brats. Of course all those with brats will now step forward and flame me with vigor.

[harrry]

I always like the way people with kids assume its normal behaviour and we should accept it. YOU chose to have them.

Yes, its so true that some parents seem to lose almost all touch with reality when it comes to their badly behaved little brats. Of course all those with brats will now step forward and flame me with vigor.

So I take it you arein favour of all kids being given a harley at age 5.

[cyb]

My children were always allowed an element of freedom, But only to a certain extent.

I would watch them all the time as would my wife. One hint of them getting just a little out of hand, It was come here sit down and calm down consider other people who want some peace and quiet.

[cyb]

I always like the way people with kids assume its normal behaviour and we should accept it. YOU chose to have them.

Yes, its so true that some parents seem to lose almost all touch with reality when it comes to their badly behaved little brats. Of course all those with brats will now step forward and flame me with vigor.

So I take it you arein favour of all kids being given a harley at age 5.

?????????