Bangkok Bank

[jfchandler]

OK... I can't help myself... Here's a long TV thread of recent days from the Brits up in CM talking about the impending Nationwide change and options... And it includes a transcript of a BBC broadcast that mentions the new Metro Bank account...

http://www.thaivisa....e-up-of-course/

Funny, they make it seem like just because Metro Bank now has only one London branch (they are planning to expand) that no one will want to bank with them. Maybe I'm not understanding some special Brit thing here... But you don't have to get married to the bank president's daughter in order to open an account with them. Or, to put in more seriously, they don't have to be your only or main bank... Just one of however many accounts, and one in particular that a Brit might be smart to use when traveling or living abroad...

First new High Street bank in more than 100 years??? Gotta love that banking industry...

[pkrv]

Hey PKRV, I'm really your neighbor, in a kind of nearby, downtrodden common man's kind of way...

You are in the Witthaya complex true or false?

[jazzbo]

A couple of years ago I studied the list of charges on various cash transfer options, credit card fees and interest rates, etc. I then set-up 2 ACH transfer accounts with Bangkok Bank / NYC... I found that the banks that charge the lower fees have higher interest rates and the banks with lower interest rates have higher fees -- big surprise, like squeezing one end of the balloon ...

The best way to avoid all these fees is to move back to the USA, UK, or wherever or just figure that at least some fee is  part and parcel of living in Thailand or elsewhere... 

[jfchandler]

Jazzbo, the best way to avoid all these fees is simply to use accounts that don't charge them...for your ATM cards, for your credit cards and whatever...

I'm an American. That's what I do. And it's not that difficult to do.... there are quite a few different account options available, at least to Americans, and doesn't require moving back to the US or UK, unless you want to for some reason.

And re credit cards, both the Capital One and Pentagon FCU Promise credit card accounts have some very good interest rates (under 10%, in addition to charging 0% foreign currency charges).

The best way to avoid all these fees is to move back to the USA, UK, or wherever or just figure that at least some fee is part and parcel of living in Thailand or elsewhere...

[jfchandler]

No.. false... I didn't know any address on Wireless Road could be considered "downtrodden"

But I'm close enough for walking... or a quick BTS hop.

Hey PKRV, I'm really your neighbor, in a kind of nearby, downtrodden common man's kind of way...

You are in the Witthaya complex true or false?

[bunnydrops]

Ok--I do have a question

I am currently in the US. I tried to setup a transfer account using PayPal first before setting one up for my US bank account. I have an account with Bangkok Bank. The problem is that if I try to access my account by phone to verify the amounts sent to verify that the account is mine, I am disconnected when I enter my account number. My guess is that it is I am not allowed to use the service outside of Thailand. Is there any other way I can verify the amounts

I have been using IKOBO prepaid Visa card in the past, flat rate of $8, but they at first do not let you put more that $1000 on the card a month until you have a history with them, They use off shore rate at time of purchase. You can not have a card in your own name (my girlfriend has the card but I can change the pin at any time;)) It is treated as foreign credit card at Thai banks. It is best to put the money on and then take it off in one sum since they charge a small fee with each use.

[jazzbo]

I already have CapOne and several of the options you mentioned -- however I have accounts over-which I have limited if any control and to change those would in fact require a trip to USA and multiple signatures of other persons and more paperwork hassle than it is worth ...  So if I have to pay the 150 baht or whatever I just swallow it ... 

[pkrv]

I already have CapOne and several of the options you mentioned -- however I have accounts over-which I have limited if any control and to change those would in fact require a trip to USA and multiple signatures of other persons and more paperwork hassle than it is worth ... So if I have to pay the 150 baht or whatever I just swallow it ...

I think you have raised one of the most generically valid points so far. Yes, as a Farang, to change your banking position remotely from Thailand whether you are UK or US would be a very, very expensive nightmare!

And as we have seen with the UK’s Nationwide – yes you may have a UK or US option today but it can be gone tomorrow.

I am happy with my own solution using BBL and merging all living expenses in occasional one off transfers.

[pkrv]

Ok--I do have a question

I am currently in the US. I tried to setup a transfer account using PayPal first before setting one up for my US bank account. I have an account with Bangkok Bank. The problem is that if I try to access my account by phone to verify the amounts sent to verify that the account is mine, I am disconnected when I enter my account number. My guess is that it is I am not allowed to use the service outside of Thailand. Is there any other way I can verify the amounts

I have been using IKOBO prepaid Visa card in the past, flat rate of $8, but they at first do not let you put more that $1000 on the card a month until you have a history with them, They use off shore rate at time of purchase. You can not have a card in your own name (my girlfriend has the card but I can change the pin at any time;)) It is treated as foreign credit card at Thai banks. It is best to put the money on and then take it off in one sum since they charge a small fee with each use.

I have used this service from the UK you obviously have the phone number. Try using your Be1st card number, thats all I had on me at the time and it worked.

Excuse the late reply, was out of town a few days. If outside of Thailand, you can try 66-2645-5555. You can use the number on your Be 1st card if you have that with you, and don't need the account number from the passbook. Not online banking, but as you said, better than nothing!

[ianguygil]

Ian, I find that hard to accept, and beg to disagree...

The best card for most everyone (Brits included) would be the one with the lowest fees and best exchange rates for international transfers and foreign ATM withdrawals...

Us Americans recently posted here on TV the results of a survey of American cards that clearly showed which ones are best in that regard. It's just a matter of mathematics. I can't quite believe Brits wouldn't benefit from a similar assessment...

But perhaps your advice on banking only extends to solutions where BKK Bank is the provider...

Actually, I think I have answered this many times. It depends on the criteria I have already stated more than once, including once earlier today. There is clearly no rule which will cover everybody. And I would say those reading this thread know the options and will make their own choices based on their particular situation.

You seem to have found the sweet spot for you, and that is just fine with me.

Really? On which item do you beg to disagree?

1: That the most cost effective approach depends on the specific circumstances of each individual?? For PKRV this seems to be to move money every 6 months ago, a large amount, into the BBL local account. Then to use a local ATM card and iBanking to do his daily transactions. For you that using SCHWAB each few weeks to withdraw a much smaller amount is best? And for me, while I may have property, investments and accounts in the US I only use the BBL card here (and in most foreign countries I travel to on business) and I ONLY use the US card, even though it is SCHWAB, in the US? You don't agree to that one?

2: Or you don't agree that each person has sufficient information to make their own decisions?

3: Or you don't agree that you have found your own sweet spot (which may not be so sweet for me or PKRV) and that is is just fine with me ?

If it really makes you feel good, i will say you are right. See. Not that hard.

And nowhere in this or the prior post did I mention Bangkok Bank. Even though we provide an excellent service, which is the choice of many expats in Thailand.

See, we both agree. Now we can relax.

And here is an excellent site run by somebody I have met before in th US which provides comparison information on various kinds of bank accounts. I have no interest in this and it may well have been quoted here before many times www.bankrate.com

As for the Brit v American thing, I am both. And as I do not have a split personality I find it hard to be negative to either side. And both have banking systems which are a disgrace, as was found over the past 3 years. Please notice that while I did work for them in the past, I left BofA more than 13 years ago to join Bangkok Bank. So I feel suffiicient distance to look at them objectively

Now, back to work. I aws in meetings all day outside the office so I just got a real chance to read this.

[pkrv]

Ian - succinct - PKRV - Philip

[jfchandler]

PKRV, seriously, if you're happy with BKK Bank, then that's all to the good. Everyone's entitled to make their own choices about what works best for them, hopefully in an informed atmosphere.

However, I'm wondering what banking world you live in... I open and close bank accounts in the U.S. all the time from here in Thailand. It's not much more complicated that mailing an occasional letter and filling out some online account opening forms. Of course, I'm talking U.S. stuff, maybe the U.K. is a different world.

But changing accounts in the U.S. is hardly a "very, very expensive nightmare." And if one bank changes their benefits/privileges that make them valuable to me, as certainly has occurred in the past year, then it's time to close that account and replace it with a better one. The Internet does wonders... really!

PS - You gonna open an account with Metro Bank anytime soon???

I think you have raised one of the most generically valid points so far. Yes, as a Farang, to change your banking position remotely from Thailand whether you are UK or US would be a very, very expensive nightmare!

And as we have seen with the UK's Nationwide – yes you may have a UK or US option today but it can be gone tomorrow.

I am happy with my own solution using BBL and merging all living expenses in occasional one off transfers.

[jfchandler]

Ian, my point was to say, contrary to your suggestion, that it's easy to look at the mathematics (rates, fees, charges) of different accounts and compare them on that basis. And likewise to compare the costs of different ATM card approaches with those of BKK Bank's international transfer service, something you seem anxious to avoid.

I posted the results on that above, and pretty conclusively showed that using a no-fee U.S. ATM card yields a better return on accessing funds in Thailand than using BKK Bank's service, just on exchange rate alone. And that was before adding in your bank's added service fees. And as I've admitted repeatedly, that works for amounts within the withdrawal range of ATM machines, not so much for much larger amounts beyond the range of ATMs.

It's nice you finally popped up with bankrates.com. But frankly, a better site and more useful and informative one for Americans is DepositAccounts.com.

I just found it a pity such a knowledgeable, multi-national person as yourself could not be bothered to share the information about Metro Bank and their no-foreign-fee ATM card with your fellow Brits... It took me about 10 minutes to find it, after reading the wailings of Brits on ThaiVisa bemoaning the change to Nationwide's soon-to-be fee charging ATM card.

But I guess referring Brits in Thailand to Metro Bank would be kinda bad for a BKK Bank exec, huh???

Really? On which item do you beg to disagree?

[jazzbo]

"very, very expensive nightmare."  Personally, I never said it was expensive; just complicated ... In some cases there can be custodians, trustees, and other fiduciaries who have control other than the end beneficiary or account holder.

[pkrv]

But changing accounts in the U.S. is hardly a "very, very expensive nightmare." And if one bank changes their benefits/privileges that make them valuable to me, as certainly has occurred in the past year, then it's time to close that account and replace it with a better one. The Internet does wonders... really!

Sorry I know nothing of the US banking practices but from what you say it reminds me of 9/11. I was forced to become a US visa holder. Oddly the US externalised, rather than identify that actually it was an internal/local/US security problem at fault.

So the guys in US can open bank accounts at will?

Hmm perhaps we should put a stop at that before the US really does go dolally.

[jfchandler]

Jazzbo, those were PKRV's words...as quoted above... not yours...

I was responding to his comments...

"very, very expensive nightmare." Personally, I never said it was expensive; just complicated ... In some cases there can be custodians, trustees, and other fiduciaries who have control other than the end beneficiary or account holder.

[jfchandler]

PKRV, do you have a Brit-English to American-English translation book available???

I can't quite translate what I'm reading below...

Did I say something somewhere to liken U.S. banking to 9/11???

And I swear, I've never been to "dolally..." Do I need a visa to go there???

Sorry I know nothing of the US banking practices but from what you say it reminds me of 9/11. I was forced to become a US visa holder. Oddly the US externalised, rather than identify that actually it was an internal/local/US security problem at fault.

So the guys in US can open bank accounts at will?

Hmm perhaps we should put a stop at that before the US really does go dolally.

[pkrv]

PKRV, do you have a Brit-English to American-English translation book available???

I can't quite translate what I'm reading below...

Did I say something somewhere to liken U.S. banking to 9/11???

And I swear, I've never been to "dolally..." Do I need a visa to go there???

Sorry I know nothing of the US banking practices but from what you say it reminds me of 9/11. I was forced to become a US visa holder. Oddly the US externalised, rather than identify that actually it was an internal/local/US security problem at fault.

So the guys in US can open bank accounts at will?

Hmm perhaps we should put a stop at that before the US really does go dolally.

A fair enough comment - You appear to say that you can just open a US account with no physical presence?

Does that help

[jfchandler]

Hello there PKRV...

No... having a U.S. presence of some sort is certainly an asset/advantage in terms of easier access to U.S. banking services... And being an American or legal resident is certainly supposed to be a requirement I believe for accessing U.S. banking accounts. But people these days, including Americans, do travel and stay in different places at different times.

Meanwhile, it's been very interesting for me, here, to begin to learn a bit about what the British banking system does and doesn't offer. It helps add a bit of perspective in terms of assessing what to make of the U.S. system, from a consumer-friendliness and customer value perspective. It's nice when one can learn how the folks across the pond are doing things...

A fair enough comment - You appear to say that you can just open a US account with no physical presence?

Does that help

[ianguygil]

Ian, my point was to say, contrary to your suggestion, that it's easy to look at the mathematics (rates, fees, charges) of different accounts and compare them on that basis. And likewise to compare the costs of different ATM card approaches with those of BKK Bank's international transfer service, something you seem anxious to avoid.

I posted the results on that above, and pretty conclusively showed that using a no-fee U.S. ATM card yields a better return on accessing funds in Thailand than using BKK Bank's service, just on exchange rate alone. And that was before adding in your bank's added service fees. And as I've admitted repeatedly, that works for amounts within the withdrawal range of ATM machines, not so much for much larger amounts beyond the range of ATMs.

It's nice you finally popped up with bankrates.com. But frankly, a better site and more useful and informative one for Americans is DepositAccounts.com.

I just found it a pity such a knowledgeable, multi-national person as yourself could not be bothered to share the information about Metro Bank and their no-foreign-fee ATM card with your fellow Brits... It took me about 10 minutes to find it, after reading the wailings of Brits on ThaiVisa bemoaning the change to Nationwide's soon-to-be fee charging ATM card.

But I guess referring Brits in Thailand to Metro Bank would be kinda bad for a BKK Bank exec, huh???

Really? On which item do you beg to disagree?

Actually, I don't think I every purported to be a current expert on the US or the UK banking market, but I am pretty familiar with the Thai banking market. As I said I have investments in the US. I also have a couple of small accounts in the UK to help my family there. I use large, proven banks and never use their ATM cards here.

I am, however, very familiar with the payments systems in both countries. And that is why I comment when people say things which are patently incorrect such as each bank setting their own FX rates for a foreign transaction (they set the fees, the ATM network sets the rates). Or how ACH differs from FEDWIRE or CHECKFREE etc. So I provide that input. It would be a total waste of my time keeping track of every small bank in the US or the UK, especially one like Metro Bank who apparently has just opened the first few branches. With a bank like this the issue of convenience would be the same as that with AEON ATMs in Thailand.

My experience with SCHWAB is excellent, and as I have a person always avaialble to me which makes dealing with them from outside the country very easy for those things I can not do online. I would recommend them to anybody. BofA is a much less "rich" experience, but it is also not their market strategy.

And again, I don't think your numbers actually "prove" anything. You do not take into account the value of a persons time, the need to walk around with pockets full of cash for fair sized purchases (you may not make many, but others of us with families here do) and the fact that many purchases made with large amounts of cash will cause the tax authorities to ask questions which also takes time I do not have (even though I pay all relevant taxes, believe me, no choice)

So you, I and Philip have totally different situations. All purchases of services or goods deal with the total value realized, not just the cost. I realize I am in a fortunate situation here compared to many, but spare time is not something I have a lot of.

I definitely agree that you spend much more time on ThaiVisa reading articles, I honestly have a job and a family which are my main focus. So I defer to you about who wrote what in other threads

So we will have to agree to disagree........

Oops, just a minute, I take that back, I already agreed with you.

[JimGant]

it reminds me of 9/11. I was forced to become a US visa holder.

Yeah, we found out we were letting too many creeps easily cross our borders.

Particularly Brits, with strange shoes and dangerous liquids.

Sorry for the inconvenience (not really).

[pkrv]

it reminds me of 9/11. I was forced to become a US visa holder.

Yeah, we found out we were letting too many creeps easily cross our borders.

Particularly Brits, with strange shoes and dangerous liquids.

Sorry for the inconvenience (not really).

I must confess with

Team America: World Police

http://en.wikipedia....a:_World_Police

and our UK showing of

Carry On... Up the Khyber

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062782/

We understand our leaders very well- All fun and games.

[ianguygil]

it reminds me of 9/11. I was forced to become a US visa holder.

Yeah, we found out we were letting too many creeps easily cross our borders.

Particularly Brits, with strange shoes and dangerous liquids.

Sorry for the inconvenience (not really).

I must confess with

Team America: World Police

http://en.wikipedia....a:_World_Police

and our UK showing of

Carry On... Up the Khyber

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062782/

We understand our leaders very well- All fun and games.

[jazzbo]

My Mother was for 50 years a 'Full Charge Bookkeeper' meaning she was the last person at a company or within a CPA (Chartered Accountant) firm who had control of the books before being handed-over to the CPA for the final audit ... so maybe my accounts reflect that influence.

BTW Now well into her 80s and a Life Masters ACBL bridge player.

[jfchandler]

Thanks Ian.... I finally do agree with most of what you said in the longer post above... including your opening comment below....

I hope people will keep that in mind when considering your advice and, in particular, comments about the relative costs and value of using BKK Bank's service vs. others that are available out there in the marketplace. It's a bit harder to make meaningful comparisons if one's not up on all the "rival" services/approaches in the same field.

BKK Bank's international transfer services certainly are good...and can be a good value.... But they're not always the best value, and certainly not if one's spending habits involve making routine, day to day or month to month cash pulls.

As I mentioned before, unlike you, since I do rely on international transfer for my funding needs/living expenses, and while certainly not an expert, I have had to learn and pay close attention to all of the methods available that I can discover, and to monitor their rates and features as they may change over time. So my comments and advice come from that context.

If I ever have a question about BKK Bank's services in Thailand, I certainly know who to ask here... But as far as the broader banking environment is concerned, I think I'll trust my own research and analysis. After all, it's MY money, so I'd want to pay attention to someone like me who actually has a personal stake/interest in how it's being handled when it makes its way between Thailand and the U.S.....

PS - To the Brits, I'd love to hear of anyone's experiences with Metro Bank in London and their MasterCard debit card that has no foreign currency fees on international transactions....

Actually, I don't think I every purported to be a current expert on the US or the UK banking market, but I am pretty familiar with the Thai banking market.

[lopburi3]

I have been able to open accounts at Everbank and USAA in the US from Thailand using Bangkok mailing address within the last two years so it is possible.

I admit Everbank fraud department did call me to confirm my Bangkok address on my US drivers licences.

[jfchandler]

I agree, Lopburi... It's certainly possible...

But the problem is, the viability of that approach can be highly variable from bank to bank and credit card to credit card...

There have been quite a few accounts from TV members of having their accounts, particularly credit cards, non-renewed once they switched to an international address on their accounts.

And the difficulty is, you'd never know for sure if you're going to have a problem up until the denial or non-renewal arrives....

USAA is probably among the better ones in that regard, because of the nature of their accountholders/members.

If someone has a choice, I'd think maintaining the U.S. address is a safer choice....

[jfchandler]

Anyone taking bets on whether the vastly overpriced 150 baht ATM fee on foreign card withdrawals will be part of any ultimate revisions?

It's great to see the Thai banking regulators are looking out for ordinary Thais.... Wonder if they'll give the same consideration to non-Thais...

As reported on ThaiVisa this morning, in a separate thread....

PAYMENTS

Single rate for money transfers

By The Nation

Commercial banks agreed to impose a single rate of Bt12 for money transfers upto Bt2 million from December 15 onwards, as a result of pressure from the Bank of Thailand.

Following the meeting yesterday, Chim Tantiyaswasdikul, assistant governor for information technology., said this should eat into their revenue only about Bt100 million each.

At present, banks charge three rates for the transfers: Bt12 for transfers worth upto to Bt100,000, Bt40 for transfers between more than Bt100,000 to Bt500,000, and Bt100 for transfers of over Bt500,000 to Bt2 million. Negotiations on fee reduction on other payment items will be discussed later on including ATM-related fees and BOT's compensation, Chim said.

Apisak Tantivorawong, president of Krung Thai Bank, said the reduction is acceptable to benefit bank customers.

-- The Nation 2010-09-10

[ianguygil]

I have been able to open accounts at Everbank and USAA in the US from Thailand using Bangkok mailing address within the last two years so it is possible.

I admit Everbank fraud department did call me to confirm my Bangkok address on my US drivers licences.

Actually, it is not legal for banks in the US to deny services to US citizens living overseas. Many banks have mistakenly used the Patriot Act to justify this, but that just does not make sense and is not a correct interpretation of the law (which has plenty of flaws in itself). An excellent organization advocating the rights of Americans abroad is the AARO (Association of Americans Resident Overseas) and you can find them at www.aaro.org. They have supportive lawmakers in congress who are addressing this issue, and you should contact them if you have such an experience.

As many of you know, mixed in with the legitimate security concerns in recent years both before and since the events on 11 September 2001, many companies have tried to use those events to make a buck or to hide behind them to lower their levels of service. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Reputable companies like SCHWAB, BofA, Wells and even Sallie Mae bank will provide you with accounts while overseas no problem. I have been offshore for a very long time and they have all been fine, except for some limitations on certain investments (certain vehicles not available offshore) and certain functions like Bill Payment.

[ianguygil]

Anyone taking bets on whether the vastly overpriced 150 baht ATM fee on foreign card withdrawals will be part of any ultimate revisions?

It's great to see the Thai banking regulators are looking out for ordinary Thais.... Wonder if they'll give the same consideration to non-Thais...

As reported on ThaiVisa this morning, in a separate thread....

PAYMENTS

Single rate for money transfers

By The Nation

Commercial banks agreed to impose a single rate of Bt12 for money transfers upto Bt2 million from December 15 onwards, as a result of pressure from the Bank of Thailand.

Following the meeting yesterday, Chim Tantiyaswasdikul, assistant governor for information technology., said this should eat into their revenue only about Bt100 million each.

At present, banks charge three rates for the transfers: Bt12 for transfers worth upto to Bt100,000, Bt40 for transfers between more than Bt100,000 to Bt500,000, and Bt100 for transfers of over Bt500,000 to Bt2 million. Negotiations on fee reduction on other payment items will be discussed later on including ATM-related fees and BOT's compensation, Chim said.

Apisak Tantivorawong, president of Krung Thai Bank, said the reduction is acceptable to benefit bank customers.

-- The Nation 2010-09-10

I had heard this was coming but could not comment as it was not public yet

As I said earlier, the regulators in Thailand strive to ensure that the banking systems is accessible and open to even the poorest citizens. And they are taking care of the needs of both Thai citizens and foreign citizens using Thai bank accounts to transact business between Thai banks, as is their remit. These changes will make it more cost effective for some consumers and small businesses. I know Dr. Chim, he is an excellent person with a strong background in IT. It is nice to see him being quoted in the NATION.