Relapse

[philo]

Sorry to say it - I only managed 32 days. When the time comes, I will have to start anew.

Stopping drinking is a strange task - kind of a mixture of hope for the future and longing for the old days.

Sobriety in the sense of dryness is a fragile thing - it only took 2 hours from the thought of drinking started to become annoying till I sat with a beer in a small soi hoping that noone would see me.

I am in a good mood though - I have learned from this that the fear of not drinking is nothing to be afraid of.

philo

[rishi]

.... I am in a good mood though ....

Having lately read trough about all posts in the first pageful of this forum, it's quite apparent that you already know the drill and what's coming to you. The best advice I can think of is - assumed you didn't let it be with that one drink, while still in a good mood - when you wake up tomorrow: try to recall the sequence of thoughts/moods that led you from the state of being happy and thankful for not having drunk for 32 days to the situation where you now sit enjoying the drink which might be both the first and last drink you'll be enjoying in the forthcoming wet period.

[dumball]

Whilst on a trip to Canada , I fooolishly got involved with a bottle of 150 proof Bermuda rum , finished up in emergency having a catheter installed due to an enlarged prostate , read up on the problems that can evolve from the operation to reduce the prostate .

I decided against the operation because I have a young wife to keep satisfied , I also decided against the medication offered because it does not reduce the size of the prostate , I have added garlic and red-peepers to my diet instead and my 'Pee-stream' has more than doubled in the 3 months I have started eating them . I have not taken one alcoholic drink in the 7 months since the emergency procedure , nor have I had more than a fleeting thought of taking one , the thoughts of what the result could be more than convinces me the simple pleasure is not worth it .

Fear not the fear , but the FACT of fear .

[philo]

I start anew today.

I drank two days - 6 and 7 big bottles of beer. The old headache, tremors, nausea, mucus that I have to puke out, tiredness, hand shaking, tendencies to diarrhea, dryness of mouth and body, energylessness and dark despair are back. So is the most dangerous enemy - the feeling of 'I don't give a fuc#'.

I just threw the two bottles from the fridge in the toilet.

Here we go again ...

[moe666]

Dumball, take saw palmentto for your prostate at least 360 mgs. of product a day. If you can get it you want a product with stinging nettle, plygeum, pumpkin seed, and zinc each of these ingrediants help in the health of the prostate. Go to LEF.org and check out there web site a lot of good info on prostate health and what products work.

Philo good luck to you.

[Jonathanpattaya]

Sorry to say it - I only managed 32 days. When the time comes, I will have to start anew.

Stopping drinking is a strange task - kind of a mixture of hope for the future and longing for the old days.

Sobriety in the sense of dryness is a fragile thing - it only took 2 hours from the thought of drinking started to become annoying till I sat with a beer in a small soi hoping that noone would see me.

I am in a good mood though - I have learned from this that the fear of not drinking is nothing to be afraid of.

philo

Well done on managing 32 days.

You have proved that you can stop when you want and have overcome the "fear of not drinking."

[StreetCowboy]

Well done on stopping again.

I thought I had regained some control when I managed to drink less than I planned while watching the rugby at the weekend.

Then I went out with the lads from work, and proved myself wrong...

Now I'm at work feeling dreadful; luckily I'm not in front of the client... tonight will have to be a dry night...

SC

[philo]

Well, didn't drink today. Have eaten two times, taken the vitamins, cut my hair, packed etc. Feel ok. Will not leave my room tonight, and no beer here. Tired, will go to sleep before 9PM, wake up by the clock 4AM and leave sober for Udon 6AM. So then I will have my first day. Better than nothing - and certainly better than drinking the third day ...

[ThailandLovr]

I start anew today.

I drank two days - 6 and 7 big bottles of beer. The old headache, tremors, nausea, mucus that I have to puke out, tiredness, hand shaking, tendencies to diarrhea, dryness of mouth and body, energylessness and dark despair are back. So is the most dangerous enemy - the feeling of 'I don't give a fuc#'.

I just threw the two bottles from the fridge in the toilet.

Here we go again ...

While you were dry, was depression a problem? Did that lead to the resumption? Really glad you stopped again!

Edited November 4, 2009 by ThailandLovr

[philo]

No, the depression went away after the first week or so without drinking. I got agitated and manic instead.

The reason for the relapse was a conflict where the other part couldn't accept my apology - it got me very emotionally upset.

The man in question - sober for many years and a 12-stepper - wouldn't talk to me and has still not accepted my apology by email.

It was my fault, but done is done and apology given. So it doesn't bother me anymore ..

[ThailandLovr]

I'll take agitated and manic any day over depression. You are really lucky you don't need to deal with that too. It is so nasty, as you know.

Best of luck sir. Many of us have followed your posts and are pulling for you.

Edited November 4, 2009 by ThailandLovr

[philo]

And another UNRELATED thing I have learned from 2 AA meetings pr. day for a month is that AA has many fanatics without much of the 'spirituality' and 'serenity' they often claim. Many of the times I came close to drinking, it was some AA 'preacher' who almost sent me back to drinking.

So now, when I get the feeling of being cornered - I just say I have an appointment/business to take care of/not feeling to well and run.

But I am still grateful for AA - and the good guys are really caring and helpful.

[Sheryl]

Philo,

No one else can make you drink, and sobriety does not depend upon not having to deal with annoying/difficult people or situations. If it did, there would not be a sober person on this earth.

Yes, AA is an imperfect entity filled with imperfect people. Like everything else. "Take what you like, and leave the rest".

[philo]

Where did I say they made me drink? Reread the post - it says 'I came close to drinking'.

When some 'born again' AA maniac says that my sobriety (THIS VERY MOMENT, IN CM, HERE WITH US IN THIS AA ROOM) is more important than going home to repair an electrical installation that has an earth leakage that in worst case will have my children electrocuted, then I tell him to ... I have been drinking for 30-40 years and managed 32 days off it; I can wait. And even if I cannot wait and die tomorrow - any decent man would repair the electic installation first.

And don't give me any crap about 'finding an electrician'. A monkey with a neon light screwdriver and a roll of tape?

I see you have your own bathroom issues - may be I will invite a nursery class playing with nitpins in the outlets that you - after given proper advise - will not install ...

(Edit: May be it is called 'knit pins')

Edited November 5, 2009 by philo

[rixalex]

Is easily losing your temper a side-effect of what you are going through or just the way you are?

Either way, it's something i think you need to deal with.

Hope you're still off the booze.

[speicher]

Where did I say they made me drink? Reread the post - it says 'I came close to drinking'.

When some 'born again' AA maniac says that my sobriety (THIS VERY MOMENT, IN CM, HERE WITH US IN THIS AA ROOM) is more important than going home to repair an electrical installation that has an earth leakage that in worst case will have my children electrocuted, then I tell him to ... I have been drinking for 30-40 years and managed 32 days off it; I can wait. And even if I cannot wait and die tomorrow - any decent man would repair the electic installation first.

And don't give me any crap about 'finding an electrician'. A monkey with a neon light screwdriver and a roll of tape?

I see you have your own bathroom issues - may be I will invite a nursery class playing with nitpins in the outlets that you - after given proper advise - will not install ...

(Edit: May be it is called 'knit pins')

Philo, still here for support, like i said if it wasnt for you i wouldnt of got to those meetings, and they have been great for me. If you want to just give me a call. Hope to see you in CM. take care....

[eek]

Philo, good luck to you. Also, from what i read Sheryl was being supportive, but im sure she likely doesnt mind your upset! Keep strong and try to keep calm when people irritate you (although thats where AA is probably useful. A place where you can get out all your frustration amongst people who will understand). AA wasnt for me personally, but it sure does help a lot of people. Although no meditation guru or expert, i found (and still find) simple meditation methods are what helped stop me from picking up a drink (as well as other private self-destructive habits). I practice simple "mindful" meditation. If you would like more info on that welcome to pm me. Or google "mindful meditation". Maybe sounds like nonsense, but its proven to be really helpful to me. My very best wishes for you. Take care.

[LaoPo]

Philo, the OP, has a big problem and he knows it. He's filtering his feelings and thoughts on an anonymous forum and opens new topics* all the time about his own problem(s): severe addiction to alcohol.

Philo is addicted and that's a serious sickness; in his own words: " I have been drinking for 30-40 years and managed 32 days off it..." he explains his situation but opts not to go into serious rehab where he will be locked up (has to be his own choice) and cured.

That's serious and (time) costly but if he chooses to wander around and talks about fixing his electricity he knows he's walking away from the main problem: alcohol.

His aggressive answer to Sheryl shows he's out of control of himself.

If he chooses to continue, minimizing his problem and NOT opting for the possibilities to have himself cured and see his children grow up he deserves no respect, not by me but above all: he deserves no self-respect nor respect from his children.

To deserve self-respect one has to be brave enough to look in the mirror of ones soul and say: "enough is enough, I'm going to get myself cured, for my childrens' sake and myself".

THAT is deserving self-respect and future-respect by his own children.

I know, the above are harsh words but experience in life has taught me that addicted people will NOT listen to whomever, whenever unless you tell them the truth.

However, finally, a small bulb will start sending light in a small part of the brain and the patient (that's what an addicted individual is: a patient) will talk to him/herself in the mirror:

"hey buddy: HELP YOURSELF!"

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/search.html&...ult_type=topics

LaoPo

Edited November 8, 2009 by LaoPo

[Wrong Turn]

Philo,

As you know, relapse is part of recovery.

It's usually a part of the process.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

[cognos]

Well, didn't drink today. Have eaten two times, taken the vitamins, cut my hair, packed etc. Feel ok. Will not leave my room tonight, and no beer here. Tired, will go to sleep before 9PM, wake up by the clock 4AM and leave sober for Udon 6AM. So then I will have my first day. Better than nothing - and certainly better than drinking the third day ...

you can and WILL succeed

[StreetCowboy]

I don't understand why some people think you can't fix the electrics and stay sober at the same time.

If all you do is not drink, then you're not going to last very long - you can't do one thing only indefinitely. You need to get on and deal with all the other things - electrics, family, all the problems big and small, and be glad that you don't have a hangover when you're doing it, and that you're sober enough to do the job properly.

Very best wishes, Philo

SC

[philo]

Many good posts here.

I have no problem apologizing to Sheryl, which I hereby do.

Thaivisa have a lot of crackpots (like me), and that makes it interesting. Guests opening the so called 'braking news' would never have made this forum what it is.

It was a mistake to change my routines in CM - but nothing new. Most of my life - especially here in Thailand - has been mistakes.

I drank on the 2nd and 3rd, felt good, stopped on the 4th, started again the 5th and continued to the 8th - when I became very sick. So I am now on my second day not drinking.

Got in contact with RAM hospital because I wanted to go back to the hospital. The doctor said I would be fine detoxing here on water, light food, vitamins and a few Valiums because my earlier month had given me a fairly good physical constitution and had not been drinking continously for 6 days.

Have to report to the local immigration here (more than 1000 kms from CM) before the 17th, so I have decided to stay here a week before I go back to CM.

With the electricity fixed and the one year extention, I will go back to the AA meetings in CM.

Edited November 9, 2009 by philo

[LaoPo]

With the electricity fixed and the one year extention, I will go back to the AA meetings in CM.

I assume you know that going to AA meetings is not what you need to have yourself cured....too easy to walk away from.

A specialized Western (or Thai) clinic for addicted patients is the only solution; and you know it.

The question, to be answered, is in your own hands. You're not fooling me or other members, you're fooling yourself by telling you're going back to AA meetings.

Typical behavior of an addicted patient.

Over the years, I've followed a rather famous Dutch addicted patient (I know him). It's no problem talking about him since he "confessed" his addictions himself, in public and on television years ago.

It took him many times in various clinics to get cured from an extremely serious alcohol and drugs addiction (cocaine amongst them).

Later he founded an addiction-problems clinic himself and is very successful in treating other patients from various addictions. Many hi-so people like politicians, bankers, businessmen/women were treated successfully in several countries and various languages:

http://www.addiction-solutions.com/clinic/...-klinieken.html

PS: I have nothing to do with this clinic; haven't even been there but I know the family from behind the curtains.

LaoPo

[lometogo]

Philo, you are right, AA is full of many wonderful and weird folks. By the grace of the gods, I have almost 24 years, one day at a time. But, I'm with you, I can still get agitated by some know-it-all, in my face, tell me what to do members. But, the program has taught me (and continues to teach me) that I need to look at and work on my reaction to them, and not make it about them.

My experience is that the most serene and happy people in our program (and in the world generally) will NEVER preach to me. They are not invested in having me believe or do what they believe or do......all they can give is love and acceptance.....and that is the best gift any of us can give another, in my opinion.

Hang in there, bro, you can do it, and your life can be happy, joyous, and free. I'm rooting for you.

Terence

And another UNRELATED thing I have learned from 2 AA meetings pr. day for a month is that AA has many fanatics without much of the 'spirituality' and 'serenity' they often claim. Many of the times I came close to drinking, it was some AA 'preacher' who almost sent me back to drinking.

So now, when I get the feeling of being cornered - I just say I have an appointment/business to take care of/not feeling to well and run.

But I am still grateful for AA - and the good guys are really caring and helpful.

[StreetCowboy]

...

(Edit: May be it is called 'knit pins')

Knitting needles. Pins are for generally for temporary bonding, although I suppose sometimes they get left in. Needles are for permanent work. Pins get left in the workpiece, needles are removed after work is completed.

The only times I ever drank on the way home from an AA meeting was after a long monologue from someone who was overpoweringly enthusiastic. But even then, I was far more likely to not drink on a day that I went to a meeting; and I never drank on the way there...

For me, it was a great replacement for the pub; certain rituals, convivial atmosphere, old friends and new. A couple of times I went drinking with my colleagues, and stayed on soft drinks the whole night, but that was a lot easier with a break to go to an AA meeting in the middle; not least because I saw the difference in the before and after for the people who had been drinking, and I didn't want to catch them up...

I suppose I should go back, but I've moved to a new town, and the meetings here are a bit haphazard...

Anyway, I feel better for not having had a drink last night, and my wallet is still full as well...

SC

[speicher]

Hang in there Philo, Interesting that some people will say that a persons only chance is a clinic, another will say AA. Without ever meeting or knowing that person. Bottom line is what works for one person may not work for another. Personally, i was pleasantly surprised with AA as I listened to rumors that it was going to be a religous revival of sorts. Nothing could be further from the truth. 99% of discussion never involves religion in my experience.Many, dont even have the higher power quest in there recovery. I have met many that say the only thing that has kept them sober is AA despite hospitals and clinics. So really, it depends on the person and what works for them. Trying anything is better than drinking! I have been dry 15 days straight and 24 out of 25 days,(1 relapse 2weeks ago. And the association and extensive experience i listen to at the meetings really help me. People like Philo reached out and really cared and helped and i never had that before.....off to a meeting.... Thanks!.....

[lometogo]

Hang in there Philo, Interesting that some people will say that a persons only chance is a clinic, another will say AA. Without ever meeting or knowing that person. Bottom line is what works for one person may not work for another. Personally, i was pleasantly surprised with AA as I listened to rumors that it was going to be a religous revival of sorts. Nothing could be further from the truth. 99% of discussion never involves religion in my experience.Many, dont even have the higher power quest in there recovery. I have met many that say the only thing that has kept them sober is AA despite hospitals and clinics. So really, it depends on the person and what works for them. Trying anything is better than drinking! I have been dry 15 days straight and 24 out of 25 days,(1 relapse 2weeks ago. And the association and extensive experience i listen to at the meetings really help me. People like Philo reached out and really cared and helped and i never had that before.....off to a meeting.... Thanks!.....

Hang in there, Speicher, it only gets better.....you're so right, the fellowship of other members is critical. If you're anything like I and many others were, you'd either become a bit of a recluse or were spending time with other heavy drinkers, or drinking alone in some bar somewhere. You'll not meet a finer group of helpful people than in AA, in my opinion. We all need each other.

[LaoPo]

Hang in there Philo, Interesting that some people will say that a persons only chance is a clinic, another will say AA. Without ever meeting or knowing that person. Bottom line is what works for one person may not work for another. Personally, i was pleasantly surprised with AA as I listened to rumors that it was going to be a religous revival of sorts. Nothing could be further from the truth. 99% of discussion never involves religion in my experience.Many, dont even have the higher power quest in there recovery. I have met many that say the only thing that has kept them sober is AA despite hospitals and clinics. So really, it depends on the person and what works for them. Trying anything is better than drinking! I have been dry 15 days straight and 24 out of 25 days,(1 relapse 2weeks ago. And the association and extensive experience i listen to at the meetings really help me. People like Philo reached out and really cared and helped and i never had that before.....off to a meeting.... Thanks!.....

The problems with addicted people are multiple but 2 very important reasons are:

1. that they are (very) sick

2. as long as they drink they lie and cheat to themselves and others in order to try and get the alcohol/drugs they need.

Whether AA or a clinic (AA has clinics in many countries also) is best for one patient is a decision to be made by a specialist together with the person involved and/or his/her family. In many cases the patient is not strong enough to make that decision him/herself.

The (American) wife of my nephew is a well respected authority expert on alcohol and drugs addictions in the US and in Europe as well and she confirmed that the problem with alcohol-addiction is much larger than with drugs and harder to cure since alcohol is available on every street corner so to speak and relatively cheap in comparison to drugs.

It's harder to get 100% cured (long term!) and that's why I suggested that a clinic for the OP is better than a walk-in AA treatment; especially if he's drinking continuously for 30-40 years (....) like he mentioned himself.

But, it's up to him and other addicted people:

Is A.A. For You?

Twelve questions only you can answer:

http://www.aa.org/lang/en/subpage.cfm?page=71

Good luck to everybody.

LaoPo