Brit Pupils See Live Sex Show In

[Ijustwannateach]

According to the whole idea of in loco parentis the teachers would be as responsible as the parents are supposed to be while in charge of students on a field trip such as this one. So even if they didn't lead the trip or give permission for it, they are still responsible for the behaviour of the students on the trip (and their unsupervised outing). In fact, they are MORE responsible, because if the kids had done this when out on holiday with their parents, the parents don't lose their jobs as parents!!! And in the end, it will simply backfire against the kids' desire to have any independence, because knowing such a responsibility exists and can get them fired, fewer teachers will want to take the responsibility for such outings and if they occur the teachers will be much more draconian about control and security.

In this case, from what I understand on the thread, the biggest mistake the teachers made was trusting the students to behave well enough not to need constant 24hr supervision and control of their movements.

[JetsetBkk]

Snip>

FYI...there is a HUGE difference between watching something on a computer screen and standing there witnessing it first hand.

another one...

Dämn right! It's really hard to see in those Patpong shows - you have to squint a lot and they don't give you any tissues.

[SebD]

I took my teenage sons (16 and 15) to LOS and whilst in Bangkok, we went to Patpong (ostensibly just for them to have "been to Patpong", but also because they wanted to waste some money on the market stalls there).

On the way back up the street, towards where we would hail a cab/tuk-tuk, we were approached by one of the touts and I could tell my boys wanted to experience an "upstairs show".

I agreed to take them in a "you're only here once" frame of mind (the couple of Heineken's I'd drank whilst they were bartering with the market stallholders probably also had an influence on my agreeableness).

Years later, I still regret my decision.

The boys went in a little nervous and quickly became extremely uncomfortable (it was a pretty much in-your-face sequence of acts that were being performed).

My suggestion to leave, within 15 minutes, was immediately seized upon by both of them so we didn't even bother finishing our drinks but made our way back outside (my heart the heavier and wallet the lighter for my error).

The only good thing that came out of it was that they learned the pay-for-play scene was not always as clear-cut and consentual as it might appear. Sure the girls performing are invariably doing it "from choice" but one has to wonder at how unsavoury the alternative choice, must be.

If the teachers involved have prior experience of Patpong (etc) then I feel it incumbent upon them to make it a priority that their charges do NOT experience a live sex show.

If the teachers involved have no prior experience of Patpong (etc) then they should not be escorting other people's kids.

It's one thing to make a choice (in my case a wrong choice) regarding one's own kids but a different thing entirely when other people's kids are involved.

[citizen33]

If the teachers involved have no prior experience of Patpong (etc) then they should not be escorting other people's kids.

I doubt if many teachers will want to mention their evenings in King's Castle 2 when they fill in the form for their enhanced ISA check!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/mar...CRB-checks.html

Edited November 8, 2009 by citizen33

[Harcourt]

THAT'S what education is all about....do 'em the world of good.

"Do 'em the world of good"....except YOUR 15 year old daughter right?

Correct.

If you don't recognise a tongue-in-cheek comment....well, nevermind.

I am actually in Eek's corner on this.

[Mossfinn]

Bear in mind that the article is from the News of the World, colloquially known as the News of the Screws, there are some areas that need investigating.

and the two teachers sitting around a table littered with beer bottles outside a Bangkok bar.

A member of the party is about to puff from a hookah pipe.

If there is a picture showing them in this compromising manner and the situation is true, they have compromised there own safety and professional status.

Later in the evening some of the pupils moved on to the city's sleazy red light area, whose streets are lined with bars offering sex shows.

OK, this would suggest they moved off without accompaniment, however the teachers ( Guardians) should have put in suitable safe guards for them not to have been able to leave the Hotel, frankly in good hotels, the only way of leaving without anyone noticing is out the window.

the youngsters were supposed to be in their care.

No supposed about it, they were.

"The teachers are claiming it was a mistake and as soon as the action started they left"

What action, the sex show, it implied earlier in the article some students went off on their own, journalese clap trap I suggest.

"It's completely in your face and wall-to-wall sex."

A comment from someone who has not been there I would further suggest.

have spent a month in Thailand and neighbouring Laos over the summer.

One night in Bangkok, as the song goes, undoes all the previous good work, such is life.

If the allegations are correct and from what I read there is an awful lot of interpretation here, throw the book at the guardians, but only after an investigation.

No matter how worldly wise this new generation is, they should not be given this insight to night life, it is unacceptable and wholly against, what should be guardianship behaviour, allegedly of course.

[IanForbes]

I have to agree with the others here... A good lesson learned about the world about them. And, it certainly won't hurt them. It's probably nothing that some of the teenagers haven't already experienced. It's just too bad that the teachers will probably get suspended. It was pretty stupid of them thinking that the "word" wouldn't get out. Teenagers can't be trusted to keep their mouths shut about anything that is exciting.

Wow Ian, really? You think a live sex show is a good lesson learned about the world around them? Is a live sex show reflective of normal life? Of normal relationships? Im also a bit confused by the idea that its something they have probably already experienced. Do you mean sex, or do you mean watching a live sex show? Exciting? To whom? What message is something like that giving kids. Because yes, i believe 16yr old (maybe not so much 18 yr olds) are still kids.

It certainly wasn't appropriate for teachers to take students OF ANY AGE to a sex show. But, it certainly woudn't hurt them. Should the teachers be repremanded?... Certainly, they were supposed to look after the young kids and not turn them loose in a foreign country. And, especially not in a shady part of town.

However, I remember lots of stuff that went on in highschool that parents didn't know anything about, and who thought their little "Johnny or Sally" were pure as the driven snow. I hear students in their very early teen years talking all sorts of stuff that would shock their parents. There are VERY few children today who don't have access to computers and porn channels. And, they DO access it. Raw porn is available in many of the video stores and older teenagers get the stuff for younger kids... just as young children access booze and cigarettes.

[Stricken]

Lucky beggars!

Nothing like a good education

[thaihome]

I find it very dubious that the kids actually saw a “live sex” show in Patpong, particularly one with a man and woman. At best, they might have seen some nudity and some simulated oral sex between women. If they did make into one of the upstairs bars, they might have seen a version of the infamous ping pong ball show.

But if the reporter in the article had been entirely accurate, then at best it would have read that some teenagers spent an evening in Bangkok which included drinking in a night market in which about 20% of the business lining the side are bars that feature what in essence are little more then a strip shows. Not exactly big headlines in that is there?

TH

[Ricardo]

School trips have changed a bit. I went to Chatham dockyard. If only eh ....

Eee, in my day, we used to dream of going to visit Chatham dockyard ...

Cue for Pythonesque exagerations !

[pjclark1]

You guys are laughing, but would you honesty want this to have been one of your kids?

Call me old fashioned but i thought teenage years were for about getting to know the opposite sex in doses. Learning about each other, including learning about the emotional aspects about sex (ok, well maybe that part is more for women, not sure..but boys at least then learn about the emotional reactions of girls/women). A raw in your face sex show could be hardcore even for many adults, nevermind impressionable teenagers.

Strange story. If true, im shocked the teachers facilitated this.

When back in the UK last year (working as a schoolteacher in a comprehensive school) I heard a group of 14 year old girls discussing whether to let their boyfriends 'shag them in the ass' that evening or not. I asked them to please not talk about things like that in front of me. Another time a 14 year old girl was boasting of her night in police custody, she had been picked up blind drunk, and the police could find no adult family member to collect her from the police station. When my son was 15 he had a 16 year old girlfriend, I had to tell her that if she had sex with him (and she wanted to) I would report her to the police. On his 16th birthday they slept together at my house.

I just wonder what sort of world you imagine you are living in?

Edited November 9, 2009 by pjclark1

[sceadugenga]

It's nothing to do with PC, what a load of crap.

Parents have a right to insist that their children don't do this sort of thing on school trips.

[toybits]

These kids must be so proud of getting their chaperones loose their job. Three cheers for these responsible children!!!

[toybits]

Surely there was no negative impact on the bar where these minors visited. Oh and they do not check on the age of foreign visitors to the bar.. What a great way of doing business...

[lioness]

My school trip was a visit to Cadburys...

seriously if it was my children, I would not be pleased at all.

[Daewoo]

SebD… Great post… I think I would be much like you…

I have 3 young sons, so I speak as a parent, and also as someone I hope has a pretty healthy attitude towards women…

At 15 my and my mates would sneak out and into Sydney's Kings Cross to hit the strip joints…

Lesson 1… while we may have done it, we knew it was wrong and adults in our lives wouldn't have approved of it…

We would sometimes watch live sex on stage, usually some 45 year old drugged out slapper, and some drunk from the audience that couldn't get it up…

Lesson 2… it had nothing to do with sex, it was a spectacle, and not erotic at all… everybody was just laughing at them both…

We met all the girls, most were druggies, and seemed nice enough girls who had a f^cked up life…

Lesson 3… drugs f^ck up your life, and whilst we may have thought it was all a big laugh, the girls are actually human beings, not pieces of meet for our entertainment…

In the case of the girls in Patpong, maybe it isn't (visibly anyway) drugs that f^cked up their lives, but hopefully the kids will realise that what they saw had little to do with sex, and lots to do with taking advantage of people with limited choices… (although I am concerned that because the girls are physically different i.e. faceless Asians... it is easier to de-humanise them)

Of course in today's Internet age, (my 5 year old son uses Google as a verb just like I would have used run), and less restrictive TV broadcasting, I know my sons are going to see lots of sex all way too early for my liking… but the lesson isn't seeing what is inside a p^ssy… it is about what is attached to a p^ssy and how society expects you to behave…

IF the teachers did actually take the kids to Patpong (I think it unlikely, but if they did, more fool them)… (I am sure the kids could have easily made their own way there)…. Then they failed providing lesson number 1… teaching them what is and isn't acceptable in modern society, despite what is available… and should be punished harshly… if the kids took themselves there, they should be punished to show them what they did isn't acceptable...

Hopefully once the kids all went back to their rooms (and probably tried to pull the head off their wedding tackle) they might have actually been smart enough to learn something from this situation…

I would also suggest that the girls would have been just as keen to see this as the guys, and hopefully learn how shallow we man can be ...

Cheers,

Daewoo

[otherstuff1957]

I haven't read every post in this thread, but I wonder how accurate the original news story is? It's been a few years since I've been to Patpong, but the 'Ping-pong shows" were upstairs in bars that had a doorman & maybe a cover charge. Unless things have changed a lot, the kids would have had to deliberately seek out any sight more shocking than girls in bikinis.

The teachers may have been negligent in taking the students to Patpong at all, but characterizing the ground floor bars as 'wall to wall sex' is taking a bit of liberty with the truth.

[PhilHarries]

If the teachers involved have no prior experience of Patpong (etc) then they should not be escorting other people's kids.

Huh? Can you run that past me just one more time? So if you are the governor of a school and are reviewing the resumes of potential teachers you would ensure you hired a good proportion of those with "Patpong experience" for school trip escort duties.

[neverdie]

If the teachers involved have no prior experience of Patpong (etc) then they should not be escorting other people's kids.

Huh? Can you run that past me just one more time? So if you are the governor of a school and are reviewing the resumes of potential teachers you would ensure you hired a good proportion of those with "Patpong experience" for school trip escort duties.

well said phil, the stupidity of some

[sbk]

Perhaps sebd's comment would have been better paraphrased as "having enough common sense and brains in their head as to learn about the places they are going". And yes, I do believe brains should be mandatory for teachers.

Anyway, it doesn't sound as tho the teachers were involved yet it does sound as tho they were negligent enough to allow their charges free rein.

[oevna]

You guys are laughing, but would you honesty want this to have been one of your kids?

Call me old fashioned but i thought teenage years were for about getting to know the opposite sex in doses. Learning about each other, including learning about the emotional aspects about sex (ok, well maybe that part is more for women, not sure..but boys at least then learn about the emotional reactions of girls/women). A raw in your face sex show could be hardcore even for many adults, never mind impressionable teenagers.

Strange story. If true, im shocked the teachers facilitated this.

I'm not laughing at you Eek, knowing you're a Lady, but I think you're being naive about teenagers and sex nowadays.

You're probably not aware how many and how much teenagers are watching real live porn on their PC's at home in this era and I'm not just talking Thailand.

12, 13yr and up boys and girls know and have seen a LOT more about sex than we did in our youth, simply because sex is just one click away and we didn't have internet and sex websites in those days.

Obscure (but Oh my Gosh how exciting ) small pornographic magazines existed and were hard to get or/and find but if you wanted....you could.

Sex and porn websites might be forbidden in Thailand but also in other countries but you would be VERY surprised how smart these youngsters are (girls also!) to avoid the blockades by the governments and search and find what they want to see: porn and sex!

That some people and parents (in this case the UK) are so bloody hypocrite to send teachers home because they were responsible for their students during this trip in Thailand (and watched a live show) says more about the utter ignorance these people have.

Maybe they forgot HOW they found out about sex and porn when they were young......maybe they never bought obscure magazines, the Playboy, Hustler when they were young ?

You're shocked that the teachers "facilitated" this ?...hmmmmm...maybe the teenagers begged them to let them watch the show ?

I suggest you go and talk to a group of 16-18 year old girls (and boys) in ANY country in Europe, US, OZ...and you will be surprised but maybe, in your eyes: SHOCKED...how much they know about porn and sex and how many had sex already when they were 13 or even younger.

I'm not saying that that's a good thing or not, just talking facts.

LaoPo

Sorry for quoting this whole post, but I think all of it is relevant.

I see your point LaoPo, however I am inclined to agree with eek on this issue, not because I am particularly shocked by sex shows (they exist, and from my perspective ignoring their existence is to put on blinders to reality). Teenagers of this age are not made of glass, and they aren't going to be badly harmed by seeing this type of show, as long as they are aware that it is just that, a show. As many have pointed out, the content of these sex shows is nothing new to teenagers who have access to the internet.

That said, the problem here is that their teachers brought them to see this show. Teenagers know that when they seek pornography on the internet, it is something that they are doing behind their parents' backs. All good role models in their lives tell them that this is not a healthy way to portray sex, and they are well aware that what they are doing is taboo. When a teacher (someone who is supposed to be a good role model) does something like this, it reduces the apparent degree to which it is a taboo for their students. I think it is appropriate for the teachers to be suspended for this reason alone.

[oevna]

If the teachers involved have no prior experience of Patpong (etc) then they should not be escorting other people's kids.

Huh? Can you run that past me just one more time? So if you are the governor of a school and are reviewing the resumes of potential teachers you would ensure you hired a good proportion of those with "Patpong experience" for school trip escort duties.

LOL

That statement wasn't incredibly well worded, but I think the intention was perhaps good! I read it to mean that he thinks it was unwise for the teachers to bring a bunch of students into a situation that was unknown even to the teachers. In deed, if the teachers were aware of what they were getting into, one would hope that they would have had the good sense not to bring students there at all.

[way2muchcoffee]

That said, the problem here is that their teachers brought them to see this show. Teenagers know that when they seek pornography on the internet, it is something that they are doing behind their parents' backs. All good role models in their lives tell them that this is not a healthy way to portray sex, and they are well aware that what they are doing is taboo. When a teacher (someone who is supposed to be a good role model) does something like this, it reduces the apparent degree to which it is a taboo for their students. I think it is appropriate for the teachers to be suspended for this reason alone.

If porn were taboo then why is it a multibillion dollar industry? Why does the viewing of porn extend to all national, racial, and ethnic groups? Why is it readily available to all and sundry of any age with an internet connection? Taboo? I think not. It may once have been, but not anymore.

I seriously doubt the teachers were directly involved in taking the young men and/or women into these establishments. It is not completely out of the question, but I've never met a teacher that would do this. Given the ultra-PC nature of our home countries, I find it hard to believe the teachers would have made such a gross error in judgment. If they did in fact take them to such establishments then they should be severely punished, lose their teaching licenses, etc, for they will have badly abused their roles as temporary guardians and teachers.

If, on the other hand, the teachers were only guilty of neglecting their responsibilities then they should be reprimanded, but not terminated. Teens are very clever. I've been a chaperone for student camps and excursions. The older students will invariably try to sneak in alcohol or marijuana. At the very least they will try to sneak out at night for a bit of an adventure. This is true of both male and females. Guards and watches can be set up, but ultimately, if a group of kids really wants to break free from the supervision, they will find a way.

Edited November 9, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

[moe666]

They get home and cannot keep their little mouths shut, I think thats worse than the show they saw.

What is it about this day and age every one has to spill their guts about their boreing lives.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

> What is it about this day and age every one has to spill their guts about their boreing lives.

Facebook.

( Oh, and Thaivisa. )

[IanForbes]

If porn were taboo then why is it a multibillion dollar industry? Why does the viewing of porn extend to all national, racial, and ethnic groups? Why is it readily available to all and sundry of any age with an internet connection? Taboo? I think not. It may once have been, but not anymore.

I seriously doubt the teachers were directly involved in taking the young men and/or women into these establishments. It is not completely out of the question, but I've never met a teacher that would do this. Given the ultra-PC nature of our home countries, I find it hard to believe the teachers would have made such a gross error in judgment. If they did in fact take them to such establishments then they should be severely punished, lose their teaching licenses, etc, for they will have badly abused their roles as temporary guardians and teachers.

If, on the other hand, the teachers were only guilty of neglecting their responsibilities then they should be reprimanded, but not terminated. Teens are very clever. I've been a chaperone for student camps and excursions. The older students will invariably try to sneak in alcohol or marijuana. At the very least they will try to sneak out at night for a bit of an adventure. This is true of both male and females. Guards and watches can be set up, but ultimately, if a group of kids really wants to break free from the supervision, they will find a way.

Good post, way2muchcoffee. After thinking about it, what you wrote is probably true. I can't think of any sensible adult taking school students to a bar scene. Certainly there have been occasions where a student and a teacher "fraternized" with each other on a personal level. But, taking a whole group of children to a bar scene that is noted for strippers just does not ring true.

[SebD]

In response to PhillHarris: "Huh? Can you run that past me just one more time? So if you are the governor of a school and are reviewing the resumes of potential teachers you would ensure you hired a good proportion of those with "Patpong experience" for school trip escort duties".

I don't expect Chris Bonham, but I do expect my kids' escorts to have some mountaineering experience when on a suitable Outward Bound excursion.

Neither do I expect the Baywatch team, but an ability to swim a little and provide basic CPR would be a nice qualification of those taking my kids swimming.

Be it mountaineering, swimming or a Bangkok evening - I do NOT expect children to be left to their own devices or exposed to risky/inappropriate situations.

In response to neverdie: " well said phil, the stupidity of some "

Agreed (how could I do otherwise?), but you could have snided it a tad more eloquently than a simple pithy remark, like that. However, to get back on topic........You really don't geddit, do you?

"sbk" and "oevna" (amongst others) have the faculties to read between the lines and understand that my underlying concern is that either the childrens' escorts (no pun intended) were familiar (and they could at least research from a distance) with the potential pitfalls awaiting visitors (especially impressionable, often reckless and possibly immature teenagers) but despite their knowledge, they failed to exhibit the care a parent can expect (even demand) of them under such circumstances.

Or, those "in charge" were clueless and therefore not suited to the task.

Whichever way you look at it, they were negligent to allow the kids the opportunity of visiting such establishments and (IMHO) criminally negligent if they actually escorted them &/or encouraged them to do so.

I think a lot of us "old-hands" sometimes have foggy memories of being a teenager and all that goes with that (as I, too, described forgetting where my own kids were concerned - in my previous post).

Whichever way you look at it, it was a huge mistake on the part of the teachers involved to either allow or fail to effectively prevent the incident.

At best, common sense was not employed and neither was proper care &/or diligence.

I expect more from those I trust with my children's welfare - be it on a trip to Bangkok or a trip on a hot-air-balloon.

But that's me.

[way2muchcoffee]

In response to PhillHarris: "Huh? Can you run that past me just one more time? So if you are the governor of a school and are reviewing the resumes of potential teachers you would ensure you hired a good proportion of those with "Patpong experience" for school trip escort duties".

I don't expect Chris Bonham, but I do expect my kids' escorts to have some mountaineering experience when on a suitable Outward Bound excursion.

Neither do I expect the Baywatch team, but an ability to swim a little and provide basic CPR would be a nice qualification of those taking my kids swimming.

Be it mountaineering, swimming or a Bangkok evening - I do NOT expect children to be left to their own devices or exposed to risky/inappropriate situations.

In response to neverdie: " well said phil, the stupidity of some "

Agreed (how could I do otherwise?), but you could have snided it a tad more eloquently than a simple pithy remark, like that. However, to get back on topic........You really don't geddit, do you?

"sbk" and "oevna" (amongst others) have the faculties to read between the lines and understand that my underlying concern is that either the childrens' escorts (no pun intended) were familiar (and they could at least research from a distance) with the potential pitfalls awaiting visitors (especially impressionable, often reckless and possibly immature teenagers) but despite their knowledge, they failed to exhibit the care a parent can expect (even demand) of them under such circumstances.

Or, those "in charge" were clueless and therefore not suited to the task.

Whichever way you look at it, they were negligent to allow the kids the opportunity of visiting such establishments and (IMHO) criminally negligent if they actually escorted them &/or encouraged them to do so.

I think a lot of us "old-hands" sometimes have foggy memories of being a teenager and all that goes with that (as I, too, described forgetting where my own kids were concerned - in my previous post).

Whichever way you look at it, it was a huge mistake on the part of the teachers involved to either allow or fail to effectively prevent the incident.

At best, common sense was not employed and neither was proper care &/or diligence.

I expect more from those I trust with my children's welfare - be it on a trip to Bangkok or a trip on a hot-air-balloon.

But that's me.

I think you are heaping too much condemnation on the teachers. Have you ever left your 16 your old child alone while you went for dinner? Have you never let them go to the movies on their own? Have you ever turned your back in a mall or elsewhere, only to turn around and not see them? Ever have a child sneak out at night? Now multiply this factor by 14, as there were 14 teenagers on this trip, apparently. Not an easy job. And teens will be teens. I agree that they are deserving of a stern reprimand if things went down the way I suspect they did.

[LaoPo]

Whichever way you look at it, it was a huge mistake on the part of the teachers involved to either allow or fail to effectively prevent the incident.

At best, common sense was not employed and neither was proper care &/or diligence.

Isn't it amazing that we're discussing an article in a sensational tabloid and draw conclusions immediately ?......I searched for more news in the more serious press (if there is any left) on this subject in the UK ........nothing.

Doesn't that say something about the credibility of the content in said article ?

Sex sells: again.

LaoPo

[MrHammer]

What does a voluntary sex act have to do with rape and murder? There are some sickos on here alright!

Obviously you didn't read his post.

He sugested that it would be no problem for young teens to watch live patpong sex shows because they may have seen examples on the internet!

FYI...there is a HUGE difference between watching something on a computer screen and standing there witnessing it first hand.

another one...

Why?...in both cases if you do not enjoy what you see you turn away......

Answer the question!!

It's OK for your kids to go?

...and another one...

No, I wouldn't encourage it and would be pissed at the teachers, but I would also probably laugh in private and think that it's what teenagers do. Teenagers are supposed to do stuff like that. It's up to the 'adults' to set boundaries - that teenagers can break.