Thai Government Seeking International Help In Capturing Thaksin

[flying]

Commenting on reports that Hun Sen refused to extradite Thaksin because he did not trust Thai justice system

Funny that this comment/quote is repeated daily here on TV & yet now gets a thumbs down...selective at best eh?

The current Thai coup/govt should get over it & move on.

To pretend they never knew at all times where Thaksin was/is silly. Even more silly to now

demand extradition.

Truth is they just do not want to see any success caused by Thaksin in an economy so nearby as it would result in much finger pointing/loss of face.

Best they put their heads down & concentrate on the task at hand their own economy & get over it.

Edited November 11, 2009 by flying

[brahmburgers]

Did Hun Sen say he didn't trust the Thai justice system? What a clod.

At least Thailand has a justice system. Cambodia, for its part, isn't even following the simple and basic procedure for officially following up on the filing of extradition papers (handing them to its judiciary).

While an International commission tried to instate some sort of court system to deal with the remaining heads of the Khmer Rouge, Hun Sen did all he could to stall the process (because he might also have been implicated). His stated reason? He said the Cambodian people would riot if the proceedings took place. Cop-out flaccid excuse that no one believed. A tiny bit of court proceedings has started, only because gargantuan salaries (by Cambodian standards) were paid to Cambodian judges. Wouldn't surprise if Hun Sen gets a cut of that.

Hun Sen is a blatant hypocrite when he disses the Thai judicial system, while simultaneously dictating what Cambodia's hollow judiciary can and cannot do.

Quite frankly, the courts letting him flee was the smartest thing they could do. If Thaksin was imprisoned the Red riots would make Songkran look like a tea party. Thaksin twittering and flying about may drive them crazy, but they should remember that his impulsive and compulsive scheming is always his downfall. For example, he went to great lengths to avoid paying taxes on the Shin Corp/Temmasak deal (changing the laws, secret offshore accounts, shell companies, etc.), and he was pretty much successful. But look at what that extremely devious deal lead to: the Coup!

I suspect that this Cambodian deal is going to turn out the same way. He may get some promises from Hun Sen (casino and oil concession, for instance), but the backlash may very well cost TRT/PTT/PPP/Whatever dearly in the next election. The govt. should just remember that Thaksin is ultimately his own worst enemy & let him go his own way.

Agree. Everything those two thugs do is primarily about amassing money, and secondarily attempts to grab more power & headlines. I'm surprised Abhisit and his people don't just let T stew in his own juices. T will be more of a thorn in the side of Thailand if he's under detention here in Thailand. T is already his own worst enemy. Just let him keep shooting his mouth off, and his popularity will continue to wane. Even his former supporters will see him as the bleating self-pitying meglamaniac he's always been.

Edited November 11, 2009 by brahmburgers

[rixalex]

Quite frankly, the courts letting him flee was the smartest thing they could do. If Thaksin was imprisoned the Red riots would make Songkran look like a tea party. Thaksin twittering and flying about may drive them crazy, but they should remember that his impulsive and compulsive scheming is always his downfall. For example, he went to great lengths to avoid paying taxes on the Shin Corp/Temmasak deal (changing the laws, secret offshore accounts, shell companies, etc.), and he was pretty much successful. But look at what that extremely devious deal lead to: the Coup!

I suspect that this Cambodian deal is going to turn out the same way. He may get some promises from Hun Sen (casino and oil concession, for instance), but the backlash may very well cost TRT/PTT/PPP/Whatever dearly in the next election. The govt. should just remember that Thaksin is ultimately his own worst enemy & let him go his own way.

Agree. Everything those two thugs do is primarily about amassing money, and secondarily attempts to grab more power & headlines. I'm surprised Abhisit and his people don't just let T stew in his own juices. T will be more of a thorn in the side of Thailand if he's under detention here in Thailand. T is already his own worst enemy. Just let him keep shooting his mouth off, and his popularity will continue to wane. Even his former supporters will see him as the bleating self-pitying meglamaniac he's always been.

Excellent points.

Thaksin is like a school-kid charging around with his shoe laces undone.

[Changian]

Dont forget that Pol Pot died of natural causes in his retirement home in Thailand, they are as bad as each other,.

Correct in so much as it is totally wrong. Pol Pot died in April 1998 whilst being held under house arrest, by a faction of Khmer Rouge, in Cambodia and was cremated in Anlong Veng shortly afterwards.

[rixalex]

Dont forget that Pol Pot died of natural causes in his retirement home in Thailand, they are as bad as each other,.

Correct in so much as it is totally wrong.

For some reason, over the last few days the forum has been innundated with totally wrong "facts" to the point where it seems pointless making corrections. It's like the sweepers next to the construction sites in Bangkok who brush away all day whilst construction is still ongoing. A pointless task.

[seapal]

I just don't understand Cambodia's intentions by even having Thaksin there. It almost seems that life is so dull that one needs to pick a fight with someone or something just to make it interesting. Can't Thaksin consider this a work at home job and do it from the comfort of some tropical island? What a home business opportunity, advisor to Cambodia, I wonder if he accepts Paypal?

Well... this is so called... politics! one has to fight another till the end.

[jayboy]

Yes, I think the news-section Should enforce some form of censorship - if you want to call outright lieing some form of right - as the news-sections only credibility is in the accuracy of the news (yes, yes, I know) and the factual and high spirited debates around them. When it goes south into a flame-fest, too many one-liners etc it detracts from the brand-value of TV. And the value for any reader goes down. (With exception perhaps for some of us posters that like to argue anyway.)

But the trouble is the kind of post you identified and wish to censor does zero in on some basic truths.I have already gone out of my way to stress it was too simplistic and in honesty needs rewriting.I take your point that facts are sacred.But reallyok does make or imply the key points namely (1) there was an illegal and criminal coup from which the country's present dire crisis originates (2) Thaksin and his parties have huge support, probably a majority if fair elections were to be held (3) the organs of state have been "directed" to thwart the Thai people's will.If all this clearly emerged from your posts -which it doesn't - you could speak with some moral authority.

Edited November 12, 2009 by jayboy

[Ricardo]

Dont forget that Pol Pot died of natural causes in his retirement home in Thailand, they are as bad as each other,.

Extra-judicial killings are not quite in the same league as genocide.

Except perhaps to the victims. Dead is dead.

[rixalex]

(1) there was an illegal and criminal coup from which the country's present dire crisis originates (2) Thaksin and his parties have huge support, probably a majority if fair elections were to be held (3) the organs of state have been "directed" to thwart the Thai people's will.If all this clearly emerged from your posts -which it doesn't - you could speak with some moral authority.

(1) The coup was illegal and criminal at the time it occured but now it is not. However distasteful one finds the fact that the laws changed to allow for the coup, the fact is they were changed.

As for the country's present dire crisis originating from the coup, that is entirely your opinion - please don't state it as fact. As you know, it's my opinion that the crisis started several years before the coup.

(2) Thaksin's support is very much an unknown as things stand at the moment. I would hazard a guess however that to say he would probably win a majority is perhaps being a little optimistic.

Edited November 12, 2009 by rixalex

[cyb]

(1) there was an illegal and criminal coup from which the country's present dire crisis originates (2) Thaksin and his parties have huge support, probably a majority if fair elections were to be held (3) the organs of state have been "directed" to thwart the Thai people's will.If all this clearly emerged from your posts -which it doesn't - you could speak with some moral authority.

(1) The coup was illegal and criminal at the time it occured but now it is not. However distasteful one finds the fact that the laws changed to allow for the coup, the fact is they were changed.

As for the country's present dire crisis originating from the coup, that is entirely your opinion - please don't state it as fact. As you know, it's my opinion that the crisis started several years before the coup.

(2) Thaksin's support is very much an unknown as things stand at the moment. I would hazard a guess however that to say he would probably win a majority is perhaps being a little optimistic.

A little i would say a lot, Thaksin is gaining hatred not popularity in thailand.

[daboyz1]

Did Hun Sen say he didn't trust the Thai justice system? What a clod.

At least Thailand has a justice system. Cambodia, for its part, isn't even following the simple and basic procedure for officially following up on the filing of extradition papers (handing them to its judiciary).

While an International commission tried to instate some sort of court system to deal with the remaining heads of the Khmer Rouge, Hun Sen did all he could to stall the process (because he might also have been implicated). His stated reason? He said the Cambodian people would riot if the proceedings took place. Cop-out flaccid excuse that no one believed. A tiny bit of court proceedings has started, only because gargantuan salaries (by Cambodian standards) were paid to Cambodian judges. Wouldn't surprise if Hun Sen gets a cut of that.

Hun Sen is a blatant hypocrite when he disses the Thai judicial system, while simultaneously dictating what Cambodia's hollow judiciary can and cannot do.

Quite frankly, the courts letting him flee was the smartest thing they could do. If Thaksin was imprisoned the Red riots would make Songkran look like a tea party. Thaksin twittering and flying about may drive them crazy, but they should remember that his impulsive and compulsive scheming is always his downfall. For example, he went to great lengths to avoid paying taxes on the Shin Corp/Temmasak deal (changing the laws, secret offshore accounts, shell companies, etc.), and he was pretty much successful. But look at what that extremely devious deal lead to: the Coup!

I suspect that this Cambodian deal is going to turn out the same way. He may get some promises from Hun Sen (casino and oil concession, for instance), but the backlash may very well cost TRT/PTT/PPP/Whatever dearly in the next election. The govt. should just remember that Thaksin is ultimately his own worst enemy & let him go his own way.

Agree. Everything those two thugs do is primarily about amassing money, and secondarily attempts to grab more power & headlines. I'm surprised Abhisit and his people don't just let T stew in his own juices. T will be more of a thorn in the side of Thailand if he's under detention here in Thailand. T is already his own worst enemy. Just let him keep shooting his mouth off, and his popularity will continue to wane. Even his former supporters will see him as the bleating self-pitying meglamaniac he's always been.

Great post. I think that sums it up. Thaksin doesn't care one bit about Thailand or Cambodia. Thaksin cares about Thaksin.

[Samuian]

(1) there was an illegal and criminal coup from which the country's present dire crisis originates (2) Thaksin and his parties have huge support, probably a majority if fair elections were to be held (3) the organs of state have been "directed" to thwart the Thai people's will.If all this clearly emerged from your posts -which it doesn't - you could speak with some moral authority.

(1) The coup was illegal and criminal at the time it occured but now it is not. However distasteful one finds the fact that the laws changed to allow for the coup, the fact is they were changed.

As for the country's present dire crisis originating from the coup, that is entirely your opinion - please don't state it as fact. As you know, it's my opinion that the crisis started several years before the coup.

(2) Thaksin's support is very much an unknown as things stand at the moment. I would hazard a guess however that to say he would probably win a majority is perhaps being a little optimistic.

A little i would say a lot, Thaksin is gaining hatred not popularity in thailand.

"Thaksin is gaining hatred not popularity in thailand."

Very kind and optimistic point of view!

[Publicus]

Dont forget that Pol Pot died of natural causes in his retirement home in Thailand, they are as bad as each other,.

Correct in so much as it is totally wrong.

For some reason, over the last few days the forum has been innundated with totally wrong "facts" to the point where it seems pointless making corrections. It's like the sweepers next to the construction sites in Bangkok who brush away all day whilst construction is still ongoing. A pointless task.

Over time the red forumists have exhausted their arguments to the point that even their feeble retorts don't cut it. So now they've decided it's time to change the facts, to create confusion among those who might have a cursory knowledge of the facts, or among those who occasionally check in to TV Forum.

They do the forum a disservice.

[otherstuff1957]

Dont forget that Pol Pot died of natural causes in his retirement home in Thailand, they are as bad as each other,.

Correct in so much as it is totally wrong. Pol Pot died in April 1998 whilst being held under house arrest, by a faction of Khmer Rouge, in Cambodia and was cremated in Anlong Veng shortly afterwards.

At the time of Pol Pot's death and ever since, there have been persistent rumors that his death was faked. As the body was cremated almost immediately after the death, the truth of those rumors will probably never be unearthed.

The story goes that a prominent Thai general/politician with close ties to PP and other Cambodian leaders helped him fake his death and whisked him away to Thailand, where he died of natural causes a couple of years later in his Bang Saen villa.

[daboyz1]

Dont forget that Pol Pot died of natural causes in his retirement home in Thailand, they are as bad as each other,.

Correct in so much as it is totally wrong. Pol Pot died in April 1998 whilst being held under house arrest, by a faction of Khmer Rouge, in Cambodia and was cremated in Anlong Veng shortly afterwards.

At the time of Pol Pot's death and ever since, there have been persistent rumors that his death was faked. As the body was cremated almost immediately after the death, the truth of those rumors will probably never be unearthed.

The story goes that a prominent Thai general/politician with close ties to PP and other Cambodian leaders helped him fake his death and whisked him away to Thailand, where he died of natural causes a couple of years later in his Bang Saen villa.

Someone told me they saw Jim Morrison at Bourbon Street the other day. Might be a rumour.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

(1) The coup was illegal and criminal at the time it occured but now it is not. However distasteful one finds the fact that the laws changed to allow for the coup, the fact is they were changed.

As for the country's present dire crisis originating from the coup, that is entirely your opinion - please don't state it as fact. As you know, it's my opinion that the crisis started several years before the coup.

Probably true. I didn't want to believe it at the time, but the coup probably was more of symptom than a cause. It showed that elected government doesn't hold too much real power. This was again demonstrated in the selective way the military's follows a government's orders. Government simply doesn't own that horse.

(2) Thaksin's support is very much an unknown as things stand at the moment. I would hazard a guess however that to say he would probably win a majority is perhaps being a little optimistic.

Yup. I can't wait for Thai politics to complete a move to ideologically driven parties, as opposed to driven by business people or regional clans, with MPs changing parties like football players change clubs. ALL are guilty of this; this is how Thaksin initially got TRT together, and the most recent case is when the Democrats got Newin & Co to join their side. Nothing to do with ideology but everything with business interests and power.

This will be the real struggle, and it will most definitely not be easy.

Edited November 12, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Ricardo]

Dont forget that Pol Pot died of natural causes in his retirement home in Thailand, they are as bad as each other,.

Correct in so much as it is totally wrong. Pol Pot died in April 1998 whilst being held under house arrest, by a faction of Khmer Rouge, in Cambodia and was cremated in Anlong Veng shortly afterwards.

At the time of Pol Pot's death and ever since, there have been persistent rumors that his death was faked. As the body was cremated almost immediately after the death, the truth of those rumors will probably never be unearthed.

The story goes that a prominent Thai general/politician with close ties to PP and other Cambodian leaders helped him fake his death and whisked him away to Thailand, where he died of natural causes a couple of years later in his Bang Saen villa.

Someone told me they saw Jim Morrison at Bourbon Street the other day. Might be a rumour.

Remember ... you heard it first, here on ThaiVisa !

[hammered]

(1) The coup was illegal and criminal at the time it occured but now it is not. However distasteful one finds the fact that the laws changed to allow for the coup, the fact is they were changed.

As for the country's present dire crisis originating from the coup, that is entirely your opinion - please don't state it as fact. As you know, it's my opinion that the crisis started several years before the coup.

Probably true. I didn't want to believe it at the time, but the coup probably was more of symptom than a cause. It showed that elected government doesn't hold too much real power. This was again demonstrated in the selective way the military's follows a government's orders. Government simply doesn't own that horse.

(2) Thaksin's support is very much an unknown as things stand at the moment. I would hazard a guess however that to say he would probably win a majority is perhaps being a little optimistic.

Yup. I can't wait for Thai politics to complete a move to ideologically driven parties, as opposed to driven by business people or regional clans, with MPs changing parties like football players change clubs. ALL are guilty of this; this is how Thaksin initially got TRT together, and the most recent case is when the Democrats got Newin & Co to join their side. Nothing to do with ideology but everything with business interests and power.

This will be the real struggle, and it will most definitely not be easy.

I agree with this

[Publicus]

(1) The coup was illegal and criminal at the time it occured but now it is not. However distasteful one finds the fact that the laws changed to allow for the coup, the fact is they were changed.

As for the country's present dire crisis originating from the coup, that is entirely your opinion - please don't state it as fact. As you know, it's my opinion that the crisis started several years before the coup.

Probably true. I didn't want to believe it at the time, but the coup probably was more of symptom than a cause. It showed that elected government doesn't hold too much real power. This was again demonstrated in the selective way the military's follows a government's orders. Government simply doesn't own that horse.

(2) Thaksin's support is very much an unknown as things stand at the moment. I would hazard a guess however that to say he would probably win a majority is perhaps being a little optimistic.

Yup. I can't wait for Thai politics to complete a move to ideologically driven parties, as opposed to driven by business people or regional clans, with MPs changing parties like football players change clubs. ALL are guilty of this; this is how Thaksin initially got TRT together, and the most recent case is when the Democrats got Newin & Co to join their side. Nothing to do with ideology but everything with business interests and power.

This will be the real struggle, and it will most definitely not be easy.

I agree with this

Yes, which however returns us to the outstanding question - where is the transformational Lech Walesa figure and the driving sociopolitical force that will take LOS in a needed and necessary new direction?

[caf]

(1) The coup was illegal and criminal at the time it occured but now it is not. However distasteful one finds the fact that the laws changed to allow for the coup, the fact is they were changed.

As for the country's present dire crisis originating from the coup, that is entirely your opinion - please don't state it as fact. As you know, it's my opinion that the crisis started several years before the coup.

Probably true. I didn't want to believe it at the time, but the coup probably was more of symptom than a cause. It showed that elected government doesn't hold too much real power. This was again demonstrated in the selective way the military's follows a government's orders. Government simply doesn't own that horse.

(2) Thaksin's support is very much an unknown as things stand at the moment. I would hazard a guess however that to say he would probably win a majority is perhaps being a little optimistic.

Yup. I can't wait for Thai politics to complete a move to ideologically driven parties, as opposed to driven by business people or regional clans, with MPs changing parties like football players change clubs. ALL are guilty of this; this is how Thaksin initially got TRT together, and the most recent case is when the Democrats got Newin & Co to join their side. Nothing to do with ideology but everything with business interests and power.

This will be the real struggle, and it will most definitely not be easy.

I agree with this

Yes, which however returns us to the outstanding question - where is the transformational Lech Walesa figure and the driving sociopolitical force that will take LOS in a needed and necessary new direction?

And what direction would that be? Thailand is a constitutional democracy with a head of state.

Not sure if your Polish history gives you a good example. Change yes; revolution no; monarchy as head of state yes

[animatic]

We are in a transformational period now, except no one really knows HOW TO DO IT...

One main reason the army has not successfully relinquished the reins of power completely

is that to do so, falls right into the hands and motivations of rapacious business interests,

and those at ALL levels equate 'Face and Power' with Control and Profit'.

So the overriding motivation is profit at all costs, because historically in Thailand,

how you get to power is not as important as HAVING power.

One of the few things at this point in time that puts any brakes on,

is the implied threat that you could get 'Thaksined' out to pasture.

This does not ignore that army and police also have business interests to protect and aggrandize.

But the coup can be seen partly as putting the brakes on a runaway train of Thaksin and his cronies.

Judging by Thaksin's continuous series of moves with little or no consideration for the good of the country

and all it's people, there is little reason to believe that large blip on the democratic reform path,

was as egregious an error as many try to make it seems. Change is coming, how it is managed

is really at the crux of this hardtack biscuit.

Edited November 12, 2009 by animatic

[Ricardo]

Yup. I can't wait for Thai politics to complete a move to ideologically driven parties, as opposed to driven by business people or regional clans, with MPs changing parties like football players change clubs. ALL are guilty of this; this is how Thaksin initially got TRT together, and the most recent case is when the Democrats got Newin & Co to join their side. Nothing to do with ideology but everything with business interests and power.

This will be the real struggle, and it will most definitely not be easy.

Spot on, Winnie ! Just hope it can done relatively-peacefully.

[rixalex]

Yup. I can't wait for Thai politics to complete a move to ideologically driven parties, as opposed to driven by business people or regional clans, with MPs changing parties like football players change clubs. ALL are guilty of this; this is how Thaksin initially got TRT together, and the most recent case is when the Democrats got Newin & Co to join their side. Nothing to do with ideology but everything with business interests and power.

This will be the real struggle, and it will most definitely not be easy.

Spot on, Winnie ! Just hope it can done relatively-peacefully.

Yes, there's so much sense in what you say Winnie, one can't help but wonder why you waste so much time following Thakin's every nose blow on Twitter and continually deflecting blame away from him here on this forum.

[Publicus]

Yup. I can't wait for Thai politics to complete a move to ideologically driven parties, as opposed to driven by business people or regional clans, with MPs changing parties like football players change clubs. ALL are guilty of this; this is how Thaksin initially got TRT together, and the most recent case is when the Democrats got Newin & Co to join their side. Nothing to do with ideology but everything with business interests and power.

This will be the real struggle, and it will most definitely not be easy.

Spot on, Winnie ! Just hope it can done relatively-peacefully.

Yes, there's so much sense in what you say Winnie, one can't help but wonder why you waste so much time following Thakin's every nose blow on Twitter and continually deflecting blame away from him here on this forum.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yup. I can't wait for Thai politics to complete a move to ideologically driven parties, as opposed to driven by business people or regional clans, with MPs changing parties like football players change clubs. ALL are guilty of this; this is how Thaksin initially got TRT together, and the most recent case is when the Democrats got Newin & Co to join their side. Nothing to do with ideology but everything with business interests and power.

This will be the real struggle, and it will most definitely not be easy.

Spot on, Winnie ! Just hope it can done relatively-peacefully.

Yes, there's so much sense in what you say Winnie, one can't help but wonder why you waste so much time following Thakin's every nose blow on Twitter and continually deflecting blame away from him here on this forum.

Comes from wanting to provide balance and counter arguments when I see people so intent on painting Thaksin as being the devil himself, but ESPECIALLY against dismissing the aspirations of the people who (rightly or wrongly) support Thaksin/TRT/PTP. And against the one-sided newspaper reporting that you usually get in Thailand; Thai news sources give you a particular side; international newspaper and 'new media' such as Twitter and some activist groups give an opposing view that I would like to put out there, in so far it remains within forum rules. In the current climate, Thaivisa is forced to be wary of quotes of even the most mainstream of international news sources such as BBC or Times.

It's so polarized right now that almost everything that is posted gets labelled as being either in the yellow or red camp. IMHO both camps have a couple very good points but are completely overshadowed by other extremist agendas and an unhealthy focus on particular individuals such as Thaksin. (@Hammered noted this very eloquently in a PM to me yesterday).

I most certainly would not feel at home in either camp, but on a good day I can acknowledge a couple of the ideals that either side has for the future, and like to point those out when they might be overlooked.

[TAWP]

Yes, I think the news-section Should enforce some form of censorship - if you want to call outright lieing some form of right - as the news-sections only credibility is in the accuracy of the news (yes, yes, I know) and the factual and high spirited debates around them. When it goes south into a flame-fest, too many one-liners etc it detracts from the brand-value of TV. And the value for any reader goes down. (With exception perhaps for some of us posters that like to argue anyway.)

But the trouble is the kind of post you identified and wish to censor does zero in on some basic truths.I have already gone out of my way to stress it was too simplistic and in honesty needs rewriting.I take your point that facts are sacred.But reallyok does make or imply the key points namely (1) there was an illegal and criminal coup from which the country's present dire crisis originates (2) Thaksin and his parties have huge support, probably a majority if fair elections were to be held (3) the organs of state have been "directed" to thwart the Thai people's will.If all this clearly emerged from your posts -which it doesn't - you could speak with some moral authority.

1) Coups are always illegal, has no bearing on the current state of the government.

2) No, they don't have a majority, that is a dream-scenario by red fans.

3) While some people like the status quo, it is completely a fallacy to talk about the state organs being "directed' to counter the peoples will to alter anything. That is at part with the faked moon-landing-conspiracy. Fun to talk about at parties for those 'in the know' (aka fans of the theory) but silly outside with people that know more.

And jayboy, I am referring to posts like this by 'imaneggspurt' :

Dont forget that Pol Pot died of natural causes in his retirement home in Thailand, they are as bad as each other,.

Correct in so much as it is totally wrong. Pol Pot died in April 1998 whilst being held under house arrest, by a faction of Khmer Rouge, in Cambodia and was cremated in Anlong Veng shortly afterwards.

...where rumors, conspiracy theories or lies are are the basis for the facts written.

You prefer to have them here or not?

When clearly not posted with caveats regarding the source of the facts, they will confuse people.

Edit: Spelign.

Edited November 12, 2009 by TAWP

[Publicus]

It's unfortunate but not the fault of TVF that news media don't present anything about the ideals of each group or any clippable piece that discusses the patriotism and common ground shared by each grouping in the stew that comprises contemporary Thailand.

Having and keeping those ideals in perspective does not necessarily cause one to 'overlook' them. It's just tuff to be able to post a newsclip about amicability and common ground when no such newsclip exists. It's the nature of the beast.

Dare I say some people consider monarchy as an institution to be sacred while others consider it to be archaic. Still others somewhere in between might consider it to be quaint (cute). Acknowledging variety of media and variety of point of view is at the core of why we're here.

Thais in recent years have become irritable and cranky so I'd guess it might be explainable if farang discussing such people and conditions might sometimes become so themselves. Within the rules.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Publicus

[LawnGnome]

Yup. I can't wait for Thai politics to complete a move to ideologically driven parties, as opposed to driven by business people or regional clans, with MPs changing parties like football players change clubs. ALL are guilty of this; this is how Thaksin initially got TRT together, and the most recent case is when the Democrats got Newin & Co to join their side. Nothing to do with ideology but everything with business interests and power.

This will be the real struggle, and it will most definitely not be easy.

Spot on, Winnie ! Just hope it can done relatively-peacefully.

I would love to see any political party in the world that is not based on business interests and power..... Name one!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yup. I can't wait for Thai politics to complete a move to ideologically driven parties, as opposed to driven by business people or regional clans, with MPs changing parties like football players change clubs. ALL are guilty of this; this is how Thaksin initially got TRT together, and the most recent case is when the Democrats got Newin & Co to join their side. Nothing to do with ideology but everything with business interests and power.

This will be the real struggle, and it will most definitely not be easy.

Spot on, Winnie ! Just hope it can done relatively-peacefully.

I would love to see any political party in the world that is not based on business interests and power..... Name one!

I think you know what I meant; obviously businesses will seek influence in politics; and 'power' is what enables the goals set out by the party to be achieved. I think it is clear that in mature democracies it's the ideology that forms the basis of a party, such as (but not limited to) socialism, liberalism, religion, free market capitalism and so on. This as opposed to un-mature democracies, which tend to go by ethnic/regional/tribal lines, or getting votes by buying or threatening people. (All of this in general, not specifically related to Thailand; you asked in relation to 'the world'. )

[Publicus]

Yup. I can't wait for Thai politics to complete a move to ideologically driven parties, as opposed to driven by business people or regional clans, with MPs changing parties like football players change clubs. ALL are guilty of this; this is how Thaksin initially got TRT together, and the most recent case is when the Democrats got Newin & Co to join their side. Nothing to do with ideology but everything with business interests and power.

This will be the real struggle, and it will most definitely not be easy.

Spot on, Winnie ! Just hope it can done relatively-peacefully.

I would love to see any political party in the world that is not based on business interests and power..... Name one!

I think you know what I meant; obviously businesses will seek influence in politics; and 'power' is what enables the goals set out by the party to be achieved. I think it is clear that in mature democracies it's the ideology that forms the basis of a party, such as (but not limited to) socialism, liberalism, religion, free market capitalism and so on. This as opposed to un-mature democracies, which tend to go by ethnic/regional/tribal lines, or getting votes by buying or threatening people. (All of this in general, not specifically related to Thailand; you asked in relation to 'the world'. )

Rest assured we do know you meant a long and tuff slog.

The outstanding question remains however.