Abhisit Could Die From Problems

[lensta]

There is nothing in the Thai judicial system that is worth respecting

Well, he got one thing right!!

"There is nothing in the Thai judicial system that is worth respecting" whether Abhisit said this or not

I have to say never have I read truer words on TV. IMHO the best way the Thai Government could have

handled The appointment of Thaksin as an ecconomic adviser for Cambodia would have been to say that

they wish him well in his new position and that they hope he will help strengthen Cambodia's ecconomy

but will continue to try to bring him to justce.

[Rideau]

Could you help me identify who was standing next to Mr.Thaksin, "the" champion of democracy? Thanks!

Edited November 13, 2009 by sbk
quoted deleted post removed--sbk

[kampengphetklaus]

There is nothing in the Thai judicial system that is worth respecting

Well, he got one thing right!!

"There is nothing in the Thai judicial system that is worth respecting" whether Abhisit said this or not

I have to say never have I read truer words on TV. IMHO the best way the Thai Government could have

handled The appointment of Thaksin as an ecconomic adviser for Cambodia would have been to say that

they wish him well in his new position and that they hope he will help strengthen Cambodia's ecconomy

but will continue to try to bring him to justce.

agreed 100%

[rixalex]

would have been to say that they wish him well in his new position

Perhaps being disingenuous doesn't sit well with Abhisit.

[geriatrickid]

The statements would not have been made without a prior feeling out of sentiments of other countries in the region.

And you know this because...?

Hun Sen's track record of being a fair, rational man of diplomacy?

I think we can all agree that Mr. Hun Sen is a survivor and quite adept at reading political tea leaves. He didn't get where he was by being a nice guy. I think it is a good bet that he has checked with his buddies in Vietnam to make sure he has a green light to pull the Thai chain. He's most likely spoken with buddies in Laos and Myanmar as well. It is in their interest to see an unsettled Thailand. This isn't about being fair or rational, but one of real politik and jockeying for political advantage. Just as it serves the Bangkok elite's interest to have a bogeyman in Cambodia, it also serve's Cambodia's interest to marginalize Thailand. Creating an enemy or threat that unites a nation is what leaders that have nothing much to show by way of social or economic development do.

Either resigns in frustration and a more nationalist person get in power, or he massive gain in support. Always the enemy from outside helps to stabilize a government. Many see the reds as traitors and come with century old stories about war with Cambodia.

Agreed and better stated that me. Abhisit is a decent man, but only the naive think he has control over the military or the elite of Bangkok. If and when the military wants a new puppet, they will send him away. Mr. Abhisit has tried to do the right thing, I don't think anyone questions that. However, he has no breathing room with vested interests on both sides of the political divide doing things intended to embarass and weaken him.

[caf]

Seems rather strange ecomomics to me if Thailand can stop buying from cambodia so that it loses money and cambodia can buy Thai goods from other countries so Thailand still gains revenue. Is that advice from the economic advisor?

No. That was Abhisit's decision, announced today. Maybe he didnt know the balance of payments situation.

[caf]

The statements would not have been made without a prior feeling out of sentiments of other countries in the region.

And you know this because...?

Hun Sen's track record of being a fair, rational man of diplomacy?

I think we can all agree that Mr. Hun Sen is a survivor and quite adept at reading political tea leaves. He didn't get where he was by being a nice guy. I think it is a good bet that he has checked with his buddies in Vietnam to make sure he has a green light to pull the Thai chain. He's most likely spoken with buddies in Laos and Myanmar as well. It is in their interest to see an unsettled Thailand. This isn't about being fair or rational, but one of real politik and jockeying for political advantage. Just as it serves the Bangkok elite's interest to have a bogeyman in Cambodia, it also serve's Cambodia's interest to marginalize Thailand. Creating an enemy or threat that unites a nation is what leaders that have nothing much to show by way of social or economic development do.

Either resigns in frustration and a more nationalist person get in power, or he massive gain in support. Always the enemy from outside helps to stabilize a government. Many see the reds as traitors and come with century old stories about war with Cambodia.

Agreed and better stated that me. Abhisit is a decent man, but only the naive think he has control over the military or the elite of Bangkok. If and when the military wants a new puppet, they will send him away. Mr. Abhisit has tried to do the right thing, I don't think anyone questions that. However, he has no breathing room with vested interests on both sides of the political divide doing things intended to embarass and weaken him.

Unfortunatly true. But who will move Thailand to a stronger democracy? And by when? 100 years?

[dumball]

The comments from outsiders looking in about no improvements in Cambodia under Hun Sen and what a dictator he is , you would be quite surprised at the advancements and improvements that are a fact that have been attained by his administration .

My wifes family are village people whom he personaly visited on a few occasions and improved the state of their roads , when the price of rice was doubled due to a false alarm of world shortage , in very short order he had truck loads of rice distributed to poor areas .

Entertaining some NZ tourists , they commented how clean the city had become since their previous visit , the river-side enhancements intruiged them and noted even trash bins were now supplied and how many street vendors had cleaned up their act .

Yes , Cambodia has a long way to go but at least people in general appreciate the increasing number of tourist and xpats that are arriving and greet them with genuine smiles .

[Lite Beer]

A post with references to HRH deleted.

[Ricardo]

- Thaskin was democraticly elected, if not explain me why! (all parties in Thailand buy votes, don't single him out for doing this).

- He got much more then half the votes. (and he is much beloved still by very large portions of Thai society, perhaps that says all, or are all those people silly undereducated farmers like PAD wants to make you believe).

- If you believe Thai courts are independent there is something wrong with your ability to understand the country your interested in.

OK, I'll bite.

Thaksin has indeed been democratically elected twice (2001 and 2005), but at the time of the coup, was only an appointed caretaker-PM, which is not the same thing as being democratically-elected.

His party got more than half the votes in the 2005 election, which is now 4 years ago, the situation has changed a lot since then, and his nominees got only 40% in the December-2007 election, which was still however sufficient for them to get first-go at forming a coalition-government.

If the courts are not fairly independent, how is it that they found the former-PM guilty, in the first (and so far only one out of several) case to reach judgement, despite the then-PM being the defendent's brother-in-law. This suggests that the government of-the-day does not necessarily have as much influence as you suggest.

Can we get back to the topic now ?

[Yoshitaka]

Don't worry, 'Thaksin can help Cambodia'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8356837.stm

[rixalex]

I think it is a good bet that he has checked with his buddies in Vietnam to make sure he has a green light to pull the Thai chain. He's most likely spoken with buddies in Laos and Myanmar as well. It is in their interest to see an unsettled Thailand.

If you don't mind me saying, there's an awful lot of presumption in those comments, which i think has something to you giving Hun Sen a lot more credit than i do.

[sunnymarky]

Before anybody speaks about this, they need to understand that I have been working in politics when the Thai prime minister was still a child.

Sort of thing that Samak liked to say.

Anyway, we all know what Hun Sen was up to when Abhisit was a child and it's hardly something to be proud of.

[clausewitz]

"There is nothing in the Thai judicial system that is worth respecting" whether Abhisit said this or not

I have to say never have I read truer words on TV. IMHO the best way the Thai Government could have

handled The appointment of Thaksin as an ecconomic adviser for Cambodia would have been to say that

they wish him well in his new position and that they hope he will help strengthen Cambodia's ecconomy

but will continue to try to bring him to justce.

You would have thought so, what with Thailand , with Abhisit as head, cuurently holding the chair of ASEAN,

BTW Just what great things has Abhist and the PAD-Democrat alliance done for Thailand? Has he done anything worthwhile?

[clausewitz]

[if the courts are not fairly independent, how is it that they found the former-PM guilty, in the first (and so far only one out of several) case to reach judgement, despite the then-PM being the defendent's brother-in-law. This suggests that the government of-the-day does not necessarily have as much influence as you suggest.

Can we get back to the topic now ?

All cases against Thasin were began under the coup appointed government and the AEC - the August body that brought the cases- were made up of members whose credentials was that they were known to hate Thaksin. One had written a book condemming him, another was a member of PAD and had called thaksin worse than hitler on the PAD stage...

At least some of the judges on the supreme court bench were appointed judges by the coup government as they were known to personally dislike Thasin.

the 2006 constitution was made to

1. ensure that any governmenet would have limited power - and be able to be controoled or coerced to a large extent the senate and privy council and judiciary- all of whome have members opposed to thaksin and appointed by the Coup leaders

2. That all coup leaders can never be tried for their crimes.

Let us see how it might work. Say a Privy council leader wants some action- he simply sends a note to any of these people asking that they consider what is best for the country. And the best is always that Thaksin is put down..

Even if someoen joins the Puea Thai party- the main oppoistion to the Democrat-PAD alliance then the Privy council members send urgent notes saying are a traitor the country and ask them not to join. Much easier though when teh people you chose to run the cases against Thasin are known to hate him blindly already..

[007]

BTW Just what great things has Abhist and the PAD-Democrat alliance done for Thailand? Has he done anything worthwhile?

Well, how about the entertainment value for Thailand news and events? Kind of a real-life soap opera.

Could only be topped by Abhisit and Toxin fighting it out mud-wrestling one-on-one..

[harrry]

Could only be topped by Abhisit and Toxin fighting it out mud-wrestling one-on-one..

Now that would make a real profit on side bets if gambling in Thailand was legal.

I presume the quoted poster forgot how to spell the name of the ex not lamented PM

Edited November 13, 2009 by harrry

[Siripon]

"There is nothing in the Thai judicial system that is worth respecting" whether Abhisit said this or not

I have to say never have I read truer words on TV. IMHO the best way the Thai Government could have

handled The appointment of Thaksin as an ecconomic adviser for Cambodia would have been to say that

they wish him well in his new position and that they hope he will help strengthen Cambodia's ecconomy

but will continue to try to bring him to justce.

You would have thought so, what with Thailand , with Abhisit as head, cuurently holding the chair of ASEAN,

BTW Just what great things has Abhist and the PAD-Democrat alliance done for Thailand? Has he done anything worthwhile?

Educational reform under Khun Jurin, not only 15 years free education, subsidies for 5 million farmers if rice, sweetcorn and cassava prices are low. The setting up of a Farmers Council ( the bill is in Parliament).

[h90]

[if the courts are not fairly independent, how is it that they found the former-PM guilty, in the first (and so far only one out of several) case to reach judgement, despite the then-PM being the defendent's brother-in-law. This suggests that the government of-the-day does not necessarily have as much influence as you suggest.

Can we get back to the topic now ?

All cases against Thasin were began under the coup appointed government and the AEC - the August body that brought the cases- were made up of members whose credentials was that they were known to hate Thaksin. One had written a book condemming him, another was a member of PAD and had called thaksin worse than hitler on the PAD stage...

At least some of the judges on the supreme court bench were appointed judges by the coup government as they were known to personally dislike Thasin.

the 2006 constitution was made to

1. ensure that any governmenet would have limited power - and be able to be controoled or coerced to a large extent the senate and privy council and judiciary- all of whome have members opposed to thaksin and appointed by the Coup leaders

2. That all coup leaders can never be tried for their crimes.

Let us see how it might work. Say a Privy council leader wants some action- he simply sends a note to any of these people asking that they consider what is best for the country. And the best is always that Thaksin is put down..

Even if someoen joins the Puea Thai party- the main oppoistion to the Democrat-PAD alliance then the Privy council members send urgent notes saying are a traitor the country and ask them not to join. Much easier though when teh people you chose to run the cases against Thasin are known to hate him blindly already..

If I am not wrong in Thailand no goverment appoint judges, also the coup government did NOT appoint judges.

[animatic]

100 Peu Thai MPs are going to Phnom Pehn, right on schedule.

So what if Cambodians are fighting on the border with Thai soldiers.

What is that line about "giving aid and comfort to the enemy"?

Hun Sen is actively trying to destabilize Thailand.

That qualifies as an Enemy of the State.

Peu Thai is so desperate to get back Thaksin, and sole access to the money trough,

no move and now ally of convenience is too low a stoop.

A little clarification, please. Is there some punctuation missing from your second line - and it should read "So, what if Cambodians are fighting on the border with Thai soldiers?" ?

Or does the "So what if" equate to "So what that Cambodians are fighting on the border with Thai soldiers"?

Either way, all the reports I've seen relate that all* is quiet on the border - and have been (PAD permitting) for some time. Do you know different?

Do you mean Hun Sen qualifies as an "Enemy of the State"? That label's universally applied to a national of the State of which he's deemed to be an enemy. I know much is made of Siamese/Khmer hegemony moving around quite a bit over the centuries, but I can't help feeling that you're stretching things a tad far if you're suggesting that Hun Sen's really a Thai national in some way. Or do you mean that the label should apply to the 100 MP's going to visit Thaksin while he's in Cambodia because you see that as somehow "giving aid and comfort to the enemy".......... whichever "enemy" in the proper legal sense that is? From imagined fighting to an imagined state of war - all in just a couple of lines......... that's impressive .

*To be fair there was a report of a bit of a punch-up about the right and wrongs of what's been said - between a pair of traders in a border market; but no Thai soldiers were involved and it hasn't (yet, anyway) led to the formal state of war that would be required for most of your post to make any sense at all.

Steve I had been driving for 8 hours that day.

I would say that actively helping destabilize the Thai government with Thaksin does NOT qualify him as a friendly.

Enemy or enemy of the state, as a semantic difference, it is an enemy none the less.

Lets call Chavalit, 'the great unifier' and Thaksin 'Enemies Of The State' in this case then.

They have together blown this international cock-up into high gear.

Even if a state of war is not declared a " Shoot To Kill" at Thai soldiers IS in place.

Not a friend's action.

Thaksin was not supposed to do any political work from Cambodia,

and yet 100 Peua Thai MP's winged out to see him. Oops sounds VERY political.

We can nit pick my punctuation, but the basic premise remains.

[awd]

No one appointed the coup makers either (or did they?). We are unlikely to know for certain the identity of the Thai puppeteers, or at least, in the Thai press, they will remain unnamed and unspoken.

[hammered]

Interesting how some want to talk about the coup and the old days when Hun Sen by his expulsion has raised the current stakes and things have moved on since those days. If certain people in the PTP-red alliance are right they have also moved on in a way detrimental to Thaksin and their side.

Hun Sen by upping the stakes and making the first extra-exulsion also helps Abhisit diplomatically with ohter countries. In spats like this it is always better to respond than lead in the eyes of the international community. However, Hun Sen's desire to derail the upcoming summit for Abhisit or at least make it uncomfortable clearly is uppermost over how international partners will see him.

[LawnGnome]

I love Thaksin, he is such a vile human being, that it makes those defending him fun to torment. Someone said something like there are 15 million red shirts right now in Thailand. That made me laugh.

[awd]

I love Thaksin, he is such a vile human being, that it makes those defending him fun to torment. Someone said something like there are 15 million red shirts right now in Thailand. That made me laugh.

Your banging your head against the wall torments no one but yourself. Be kind to yourself always.

[hammered]

I love Thaksin, he is such a vile human being, that it makes those defending him fun to torment. Someone said something like there are 15 million red shirts right now in Thailand. That made me laugh.

A red shirt posted on another site that the actual reds numbered in the hundreds of thousands and not millions (they may have a few million with sympathisers etc) and that expecting a succesful uprising was wrong strategy as there were not enough hard core

[Samuian]

I love Thaksin, he is such a vile human being, that it makes those defending him fun to torment. Someone said something like there are 15 million red shirts right now in Thailand. That made me laugh.

yes, he is good, he certainly has some outstanding qualities - especially if he loses it...

"Democratically elected", "politically motivated court sentence", "biased judiciary",

"envious elite in fear of losing control", "UN is not my father", "Thailand doesn't need democracy",

"I love my country", "I feel so lonely", "I would give my life for....xxx..xxx.", "the people love me"....

and yes "if they want me, they can bring me back"... well this didn't happen or is the deadline in next century?

Abhisit could be much longer in business then some wish to see.....

the first one, for long, who stars to bring about some fresh air into this diseased administration and Government,

all the way down to the grassroots "puu yai baan" - it's there where it starts!

[007]

I presume the quoted poster forgot how to spell the name of the ex not lamented PM

No, it was misspelled purely for satirical reasons.

Edited November 13, 2009 by 7

[hammered]

Unfortunatly true. But who will move Thailand to a stronger democracy? And by when? 100 years?

The short answer is none of the current players and so it will be a long time. First, the people must realise all of the current players are not going to do so. Then things will progress. There are no short cuts. History shows us that those who follow the first you and then us tactic are consigned to failure. People must recognize and see the true nature of poltiicans before anything can be done.

[awd]

Unfortunatly true. But who will move Thailand to a stronger democracy? And by when? 100 years?

The short answer is none of the current players and so it will be a long time. First, the people must realise all of the current players are not going to do so. Then things will progress. There are no short cuts. History shows us that those who follow the first you and then us tactic are consigned to failure. People must recognize and see the true nature of poltiicans before anything can be done.

Couldn't agree more. A certain amount of dismantling is required before reassembly can begin. That's what is so refreshing about Thaksin's mosquito-like harrassment of the Abhisit non-government. To be sure, Thaksin is better in this role than back at PM.

[saag]

Interesting how some want to talk about the coup and the old days when Hun Sen by his expulsion has raised the current stakes and things have moved on since those days. If certain people in the PTP-red alliance are right they have also moved on in a way detrimental to Thaksin and their side.

Hun Sen by upping the stakes and making the first extra-expulsion also helps Abhisit diplomatically with other countries. In spats like this it is always better to respond than lead in the eyes of the international community. However, Hun Sen's desire to derail the upcoming summit for Abhisit or at least make it uncomfortable clearly is uppermost over how international partners will see him.

Hun Sen's government have upped the stakes yet again with the arrest today of a Thai worker in Cambodia on charges of spying.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-11/...nt_12447901.htm