Are Some Bar Owners Plain Stupid ?

[Dpolenz]

The majority are obviously not Millionaires in there home country and are not ex astronauts excetra but not everyone here is broke/liar,i know plenty of people who run bars here that are financially well off and only run a bar here as a hobby,maybe you are a tad bit cynical.

Hobby LOL so you don't think that there are glorified pimps

Offcourse allot of them are glorified pimps,show me where i said that all of them do it for a hobby?the majority dont but i know plenty who do.So whats funny with that please explain?

[SantiSuk]

Was just thinking about Dpol's point. Of the bar owners I know I think about 80% don't need to make a profit. As long as the bar doesn't lose money or not that much they are happy. Its either just the idea of drinking in their own place or something to keep the misses busy.

I did ask one owner why he didn't do a happy hour and he said and I quote 'because it attracts <deleted>'

There's nothing left to say on the subject is there?

[William Osborne]

Oh great, an idea of daytime bars dropping there prices so theres more cheap charlie, piss head, scruffy losers on the streets during the day...

thats sums up about 85 % of Pattaya day time clientele.. even though I'm not a business guru, thats not a bad share of the market...especially if your bar consists of the open air tin roof variety...

[Lovedog100]

i can rememeber before (probably not now) I could buy a case of San Miquel which worked out about 27 baht in those wholesale shops which are scattered everywhere..... so then a bar sells it for 45 baht.. thats an uplift of approx 60% which is pretty good considering how easy the product is to handle as it doesn't go off like, say, fruit and veg where you have to allow for waste...

Anyway I'm talking about "bars" that consist of 4 counters, a fridge and a couple of fans.... so if someone can't see the common sense of paying less for a beer in a bar in the same vincinity thats up to them....

"thats sums up about 85 % of Pattaya day time clientele.. even though I'm not a business guru, thats not a bad share of the market...especially if your bar consists of the open air tin roof variety..."

William, maybe I can educate you just a little on how owning a bar works. First off an open air tin roof in Pattaya is not cheap. In fact an enclosed bar in BKK costs less. Pattaya rents are really high. I looked at an open air tin roof place on Soi 7 last month. Let's assume I took it. There was one million Bht a year key money and the rent was 70,000 a month. Take the one million and devide it by 12 months, that comes to 83333 Bht add the 70,000 Bht per month and you get the true rent for a month 153,333 a month.

Now that 27Bht San Miguel you talk of actually costs 34 Bht delivered. Sell that beer for 45 Bht and there is a profit (not really, I'll explain) of 11 Bht That is 7.5% profit, not 60%

I'm sure that you like your beer cold, so I will have to buy ice every day to keep it cold. One bag won't do it. Lets say that I only spend 1,000 Bht a month on ice, because I really don't care how cold the beer is, after all I give you a condom for the bottle, and a cool cloth to wipe the sweat off you. Oops, another 1,000 Bht or a month

You will not go in if the lights are not on or fans running, so lets add 2,000 Bht a month for electricity.

Now we will assume a light bulb never burns out, a glass never brakes, no one ever knocks over a speaker, and chairs never break or get worn out, and coolers run forever. WE will make maintenance 0 Bht

My clientele only cares about price of beer, and not service, or ladies, so I skimp on those. I hire one casheer at 5,000 a manager at 10,000 and have two ladies serving during the day, and two more at night, the cheapest rate for a fat 35 year old woman with bad strech marks is 2,500 Bht each. (we are all the same here, and a bar with only two ladies working will attract us right in) we have a total staff costs of 25,000 Bht

We won't add in the cost of things I had to buy to open the bar. Like furniture, glasses, a sign, light fixtures, fans, sound system, after all, they are cheap, and I shouldn't need to recoup the cost anyway, after all, I'm the bar owner. That should be enough.

Let's add those costs up. Rent 153,333 Keeping beer cold 2,000 electricity 2,000 maintenance 0 staff 25,000 that equals 183,333 Bht I have to pay to serve you a half warm beer by an ugly lady. If we take that 183,333 and divide it by the 11 Bht "profit" I make on a beer and we get 16575, the number of beers I have to sell per month to break even. Divide that by 30 days in a month and we get 552 beers a day I have to sell to break even. Or 552 times 45 Bht per beer equals 24,863 Bht per day my bar has to make to break even.

Lets talk about you for a minute. You will come to my bar because of my cheap prices, and the fine lady company I have available. I'm going to guess you'll take up one of my seats for about two hours and buy three beers got a total profit to me of 33 Bht Now I only have to make 24,833 Bht more today, to break even. Wow. Break even means I don't make any money. That's OK though, I'm only in business to make you happy and comfortable. I don't have to do the things you do,, like have a place to live, eat, drink, take my lady out, or send her family money. It's OK if I can't go to a movie, or pay for a taxi, they are extravagances anyway.

Is there anything else I can do for you?

Maybe I should give you my girlfriend for 33 Bht for 2 hours also. dam_n, I'll be rolling in money then.

[Dpolenz]

i can rememeber before (probably not now) I could buy a case of San Miquel which worked out about 27 baht in those wholesale shops which are scattered everywhere..... so then a bar sells it for 45 baht.. thats an uplift of approx 60% which is pretty good considering how easy the product is to handle as it doesn't go off like, say, fruit and veg where you have to allow for waste...

Anyway I'm talking about "bars" that consist of 4 counters, a fridge and a couple of fans.... so if someone can't see the common sense of paying less for a beer in a bar in the same vincinity thats up to them....

"thats sums up about 85 % of Pattaya day time clientele.. even though I'm not a business guru, thats not a bad share of the market...especially if your bar consists of the open air tin roof variety..."

William, maybe I can educate you just a little on how owning a bar works. First off an open air tin roof in Pattaya is not cheap. In fact an enclosed bar in BKK costs less. Pattaya rents are really high. I looked at an open air tin roof place on Soi 7 last month. Let's assume I took it. There was one million Bht a year key money and the rent was 70,000 a month. Take the one million and devide it by 12 months, that comes to 83333 Bht add the 70,000 Bht per month and you get the true rent for a month 153,333 a month.

Now that 27Bht San Miguel you talk of actually costs 34 Bht delivered. Sell that beer for 45 Bht and there is a profit (not really, I'll explain) of 11 Bht That is 7.5% profit, not 60%

I'm sure that you like your beer cold, so I will have to buy ice every day to keep it cold. One bag won't do it. Lets say that I only spend 1,000 Bht a month on ice, because I really don't care how cold the beer is, after all I give you a condom for the bottle, and a cool cloth to wipe the sweat off you. Oops, another 1,000 Bht or a month

You will not go in if the lights are not on or fans running, so lets add 2,000 Bht a month for electricity.

Now we will assume a light bulb never burns out, a glass never brakes, no one ever knocks over a speaker, and chairs never break or get worn out, and coolers run forever. WE will make maintenance 0 Bht

My clientele only cares about price of beer, and not service, or ladies, so I skimp on those. I hire one casheer at 5,000 a manager at 10,000 and have two ladies serving during the day, and two more at night, the cheapest rate for a fat 35 year old woman with bad strech marks is 2,500 Bht each. (we are all the same here, and a bar with only two ladies working will attract us right in) we have a total staff costs of 25,000 Bht

We won't add in the cost of things I had to buy to open the bar. Like furniture, glasses, a sign, light fixtures, fans, sound system, after all, they are cheap, and I shouldn't need to recoup the cost anyway, after all, I'm the bar owner. That should be enough.

Let's add those costs up. Rent 153,333 Keeping beer cold 2,000 electricity 2,000 maintenance 0 staff 25,000 that equals 183,333 Bht I have to pay to serve you a half warm beer by an ugly lady. If we take that 183,333 and divide it by the 11 Bht "profit" I make on a beer and we get 16575, the number of beers I have to sell per month to break even. Divide that by 30 days in a month and we get 552 beers a day I have to sell to break even. Or 552 times 45 Bht per beer equals 24,863 Bht per day my bar has to make to break even.

Lets talk about you for a minute. You will come to my bar because of my cheap prices, and the fine lady company I have available. I'm going to guess you'll take up one of my seats for about two hours and buy three beers got a total profit to me of 33 Bht Now I only have to make 24,833 Bht more today, to break even. Wow. Break even means I don't make any money. That's OK though, I'm only in business to make you happy and comfortable. I don't have to do the things you do,, like have a place to live, eat, drink, take my lady out, or send her family money. It's OK if I can't go to a movie, or pay for a taxi, they are extravagances anyway.

Is there anything else I can do for you?

Maybe I should give you my girlfriend for 33 Bht for 2 hours also. dam_n, I'll be rolling in money then.

Great,christmas has come early.

[William Osborne]

thanks for the explanation LoveDog100....

Actually, there are a few bars on East Pattaya where I occasionaly drink if I want to meet up with somebody, single shop house type where I have sat in there for maybe 4-5 hours till midnight (tbh i can't remember exact price is but think it is around 65-75 baht range) I would maybe spend 500 baht in these outings with very little other customers and have wondered if they do in fact even breakeven?? Sounds like they don't ??

Anyway good luck with your business but i fail to see the point laying out approx $4500 per month for such low profits .....you sound like a reasonably smart chap as you can at least crunch the numbers (this is probaly beyond some owners) so you should open yourself a brokerage account and dabble on the markets.. sounds alot less riskier and work than running a bar ???

[getgoin]

yes, Eagle bar is always busy... i used to go to the one on the cross-roads.. "Worldwide Bar" I think.... for some reason I haven't been down that way for a while.....

My new thing is taking the dogs for a walk which consists of leaving them run around in some empty land nearby whilst I sit in the back of the truck drinking beer with a good book ...

I've said this many times to many bar owners. The busiest place in town is the cheapest place. There are other considerations. Entertainment is a big one. No one listens.

[Dpolenz]

Entertainement is the keyword for me,thats why i dont mind paying 2hundred bht per drink in one of my favourite haunts{fashion club}Stunning women,well maybe stunning is being to nice but certainly an improvement on your average go go bird

[William Osborne]

... sipping a beer and watching the people walking down Soi 7 or Soi Boakhow is pretty good entertainment... certainly beats someone trying to make conversation with you with a vocabulary of 10 english words....

[zzaa09]

... sipping a beer and watching the people walking down Soi 7 or Soi Boakhow is pretty good entertainment... certainly beats someone trying to make conversation with you with a vocabulary of 10 english words....

Local expats?

[William Osborne]

don't normally ask !!!

[dave2]

zzaa09.

re ..... certainly beats someone trying to make conversation with you with a vocabulary of 10 english words

you get 10 in pattaya ? ... your lucky !

in chaing mai at the mo its .... where you come from ... you buy me drink

eight english words ! ...... and that is their total knowledge of english !

go to the next bar and its the same ....... go to the next bar and its the same ... and the next bar ..... and the next bar ... your lucky in pattaya as you obviously have ..... educated girls down there : ) .... dave2

Edited November 15, 2009 by dave2

[Geekfreaklover]

Don't know too much about Pattaya bars, but can tell you for sure that the bars in Bangkok that serve beer at a 99bt a pint and lay on free food are raking it in cash wise..

[Jaydillon]

i can rememeber before (probably not now) I could buy a case of San Miquel which worked out about 27 baht in those wholesale shops which are scattered everywhere..... so then a bar sells it for 45 baht.. thats an uplift of approx 60% which is pretty good considering how easy the product is to handle as it doesn't go off like, say, fruit and veg where you have to allow for waste...

Anyway I'm talking about "bars" that consist of 4 counters, a fridge and a couple of fans.... so if someone can't see the common sense of paying less for a beer in a bar in the same vincinity thats up to them....

"thats sums up about 85 % of Pattaya day time clientele.. even though I'm not a business guru, thats not a bad share of the market...especially if your bar consists of the open air tin roof variety..."

William, maybe I can educate you just a little on how owning a bar works. First off an open air tin roof in Pattaya is not cheap. In fact an enclosed bar in BKK costs less. Pattaya rents are really high. I looked at an open air tin roof place on Soi 7 last month. Let's assume I took it. There was one million Bht a year key money and the rent was 70,000 a month. Take the one million and devide it by 12 months, that comes to 83333 Bht add the 70,000 Bht per month and you get the true rent for a month 153,333 a month.

Now that 27Bht San Miguel you talk of actually costs 34 Bht delivered. Sell that beer for 45 Bht and there is a profit (not really, I'll explain) of 11 Bht That is 7.5% profit, not 60%

I'm sure that you like your beer cold, so I will have to buy ice every day to keep it cold. One bag won't do it. Lets say that I only spend 1,000 Bht a month on ice, because I really don't care how cold the beer is, after all I give you a condom for the bottle, and a cool cloth to wipe the sweat off you. Oops, another 1,000 Bht or a month

You will not go in if the lights are not on or fans running, so lets add 2,000 Bht a month for electricity.

Now we will assume a light bulb never burns out, a glass never brakes, no one ever knocks over a speaker, and chairs never break or get worn out, and coolers run forever. WE will make maintenance 0 Bht

My clientele only cares about price of beer, and not service, or ladies, so I skimp on those. I hire one casheer at 5,000 a manager at 10,000 and have two ladies serving during the day, and two more at night, the cheapest rate for a fat 35 year old woman with bad strech marks is 2,500 Bht each. (we are all the same here, and a bar with only two ladies working will attract us right in) we have a total staff costs of 25,000 Bht

We won't add in the cost of things I had to buy to open the bar. Like furniture, glasses, a sign, light fixtures, fans, sound system, after all, they are cheap, and I shouldn't need to recoup the cost anyway, after all, I'm the bar owner. That should be enough.

Let's add those costs up. Rent 153,333 Keeping beer cold 2,000 electricity 2,000 maintenance 0 staff 25,000 that equals 183,333 Bht I have to pay to serve you a half warm beer by an ugly lady. If we take that 183,333 and divide it by the 11 Bht "profit" I make on a beer and we get 16575, the number of beers I have to sell per month to break even. Divide that by 30 days in a month and we get 552 beers a day I have to sell to break even. Or 552 times 45 Bht per beer equals 24,863 Bht per day my bar has to make to break even.

Lets talk about you for a minute. You will come to my bar because of my cheap prices, and the fine lady company I have available. I'm going to guess you'll take up one of my seats for about two hours and buy three beers got a total profit to me of 33 Bht Now I only have to make 24,833 Bht more today, to break even. Wow. Break even means I don't make any money. That's OK though, I'm only in business to make you happy and comfortable. I don't have to do the things you do,, like have a place to live, eat, drink, take my lady out, or send her family money. It's OK if I can't go to a movie, or pay for a taxi, they are extravagances anyway.

Is there anything else I can do for you?

Maybe I should give you my girlfriend for 33 Bht for 2 hours also. dam_n, I'll be rolling in money then.

OK point taken. So if the cost of running a bar is unbearable and lucky if you break even, then on top of all that you have to put up with guys like Osborne and my self why are you even considering to rent a bar in Soi 7 you must be bonkers. Come- on even a chimpanzee with a half a brain can suss it out.

[William Osborne]

zzaa09.

re ..... certainly beats someone trying to make conversation with you with a vocabulary of 10 english words

you get 10 in pattaya ? ... your lucky !

in chaing mai at the mo its .... where you come from ... you buy me drink

eight english words ! ...... and that is their total knowledge of english !

go to the next bar and its the same ....... go to the next bar and its the same ... and the next bar ..... and the next bar ... your lucky in pattaya as you obviously have ..... educated girls down there : ) .... dave2

Interesting Dave2,

Most Chaing Maions will tell you that there are no bar girls in Chaing Mai and that sort of thing only happens in Pattaya .

[gharknes]

i can rememeber before (probably not now) I could buy a case of San Miquel which worked out about 27 baht in those wholesale shops which are scattered everywhere..... so then a bar sells it for 45 baht.. thats an uplift of approx 60% which is pretty good considering how easy the product is to handle as it doesn't go off like, say, fruit and veg where you have to allow for waste...

Anyway I'm talking about "bars" that consist of 4 counters, a fridge and a couple of fans.... so if someone can't see the common sense of paying less for a beer in a bar in the same vincinity thats up to them....

"thats sums up about 85 % of Pattaya day time clientele.. even though I'm not a business guru, thats not a bad share of the market...especially if your bar consists of the open air tin roof variety..."

William, maybe I can educate you just a little on how owning a bar works. First off an open air tin roof in Pattaya is not cheap. In fact an enclosed bar in BKK costs less. Pattaya rents are really high. I looked at an open air tin roof place on Soi 7 last month. Let's assume I took it. There was one million Bht a year key money and the rent was 70,000 a month. Take the one million and devide it by 12 months, that comes to 83333 Bht add the 70,000 Bht per month and you get the true rent for a month 153,333 a month.

Now that 27Bht San Miguel you talk of actually costs 34 Bht delivered. Sell that beer for 45 Bht and there is a profit (not really, I'll explain) of 11 Bht That is 7.5% profit, not 60%

I'm sure that you like your beer cold, so I will have to buy ice every day to keep it cold. One bag won't do it. Lets say that I only spend 1,000 Bht a month on ice, because I really don't care how cold the beer is, after all I give you a condom for the bottle, and a cool cloth to wipe the sweat off you. Oops, another 1,000 Bht or a month

You will not go in if the lights are not on or fans running, so lets add 2,000 Bht a month for electricity.

Now we will assume a light bulb never burns out, a glass never brakes, no one ever knocks over a speaker, and chairs never break or get worn out, and coolers run forever. WE will make maintenance 0 Bht

My clientele only cares about price of beer, and not service, or ladies, so I skimp on those. I hire one casheer at 5,000 a manager at 10,000 and have two ladies serving during the day, and two more at night, the cheapest rate for a fat 35 year old woman with bad strech marks is 2,500 Bht each. (we are all the same here, and a bar with only two ladies working will attract us right in) we have a total staff costs of 25,000 Bht

We won't add in the cost of things I had to buy to open the bar. Like furniture, glasses, a sign, light fixtures, fans, sound system, after all, they are cheap, and I shouldn't need to recoup the cost anyway, after all, I'm the bar owner. That should be enough.

Let's add those costs up. Rent 153,333 Keeping beer cold 2,000 electricity 2,000 maintenance 0 staff 25,000 that equals 183,333 Bht I have to pay to serve you a half warm beer by an ugly lady. If we take that 183,333 and divide it by the 11 Bht "profit" I make on a beer and we get 16575, the number of beers I have to sell per month to break even. Divide that by 30 days in a month and we get 552 beers a day I have to sell to break even. Or 552 times 45 Bht per beer equals 24,863 Bht per day my bar has to make to break even.

Lets talk about you for a minute. You will come to my bar because of my cheap prices, and the fine lady company I have available. I'm going to guess you'll take up one of my seats for about two hours and buy three beers got a total profit to me of 33 Bht Now I only have to make 24,833 Bht more today, to break even. Wow. Break even means I don't make any money. That's OK though, I'm only in business to make you happy and comfortable. I don't have to do the things you do,, like have a place to live, eat, drink, take my lady out, or send her family money. It's OK if I can't go to a movie, or pay for a taxi, they are extravagances anyway.

Is there anything else I can do for you?

Maybe I should give you my girlfriend for 33 Bht for 2 hours also. dam_n, I'll be rolling in money then.

OK point taken. So if the cost of running a bar is unbearable and lucky if you break even, then on top of all that you have to put up with guys like Osborne and my self why are you even considering to rent a bar in Soi 7 you must be bonkers. Come- on even a chimpanzee with a half a brain can suss it out.

problem here is that the Thai owners are simply asking for too much money for rent and key money, there just aren't enough customers to go round, what you posted is informative but it also shows that the business model for a bar in pattaya ir seriously flawed and practically impossible, rents need to come down, but there's alway a mug who thinks they can make it, the sums just don't add up if they ever decided to actually work it out before signing a lease

[gotlost]

i can rememeber before (probably not now) I could buy a case of San Miquel which worked out about 27 baht in those wholesale shops which are scattered everywhere..... so then a bar sells it for 45 baht.. thats an uplift of approx 60% which is pretty good considering how easy the product is to handle as it doesn't go off like, say, fruit and veg where you have to allow for waste...

Anyway I'm talking about "bars" that consist of 4 counters, a fridge and a couple of fans.... so if someone can't see the common sense of paying less for a beer in a bar in the same vincinity thats up to them....

"thats sums up about 85 % of Pattaya day time clientele.. even though I'm not a business guru, thats not a bad share of the market...especially if your bar consists of the open air tin roof variety..."

William, maybe I can educate you just a little on how owning a bar works. First off an open air tin roof in Pattaya is not cheap. In fact an enclosed bar in BKK costs less. Pattaya rents are really high. I looked at an open air tin roof place on Soi 7 last month. Let's assume I took it. There was one million Bht a year key money and the rent was 70,000 a month. Take the one million and devide it by 12 months, that comes to 83333 Bht add the 70,000 Bht per month and you get the true rent for a month 153,333 a month.

Now that 27Bht San Miguel you talk of actually costs 34 Bht delivered. Sell that beer for 45 Bht and there is a profit (not really, I'll explain) of 11 Bht That is 7.5% profit, not 60%

I'm sure that you like your beer cold, so I will have to buy ice every day to keep it cold. One bag won't do it. Lets say that I only spend 1,000 Bht a month on ice, because I really don't care how cold the beer is, after all I give you a condom for the bottle, and a cool cloth to wipe the sweat off you. Oops, another 1,000 Bht or a month

You will not go in if the lights are not on or fans running, so lets add 2,000 Bht a month for electricity.

Now we will assume a light bulb never burns out, a glass never brakes, no one ever knocks over a speaker, and chairs never break or get worn out, and coolers run forever. WE will make maintenance 0 Bht

My clientele only cares about price of beer, and not service, or ladies, so I skimp on those. I hire one casheer at 5,000 a manager at 10,000 and have two ladies serving during the day, and two more at night, the cheapest rate for a fat 35 year old woman with bad strech marks is 2,500 Bht each. (we are all the same here, and a bar with only two ladies working will attract us right in) we have a total staff costs of 25,000 Bht

We won't add in the cost of things I had to buy to open the bar. Like furniture, glasses, a sign, light fixtures, fans, sound system, after all, they are cheap, and I shouldn't need to recoup the cost anyway, after all, I'm the bar owner. That should be enough.

Let's add those costs up. Rent 153,333 Keeping beer cold 2,000 electricity 2,000 maintenance 0 staff 25,000 that equals 183,333 Bht I have to pay to serve you a half warm beer by an ugly lady. If we take that 183,333 and divide it by the 11 Bht "profit" I make on a beer and we get 16575, the number of beers I have to sell per month to break even. Divide that by 30 days in a month and we get 552 beers a day I have to sell to break even. Or 552 times 45 Bht per beer equals 24,863 Bht per day my bar has to make to break even.

Lets talk about you for a minute. You will come to my bar because of my cheap prices, and the fine lady company I have available. I'm going to guess you'll take up one of my seats for about two hours and buy three beers got a total profit to me of 33 Bht Now I only have to make 24,833 Bht more today, to break even. Wow. Break even means I don't make any money. That's OK though, I'm only in business to make you happy and comfortable. I don't have to do the things you do,, like have a place to live, eat, drink, take my lady out, or send her family money. It's OK if I can't go to a movie, or pay for a taxi, they are extravagances anyway.

Is there anything else I can do for you?

Maybe I should give you my girlfriend for 33 Bht for 2 hours also. dam_n, I'll be rolling in money then.

OK point taken. So if the cost of running a bar is unbearable and lucky if you break even, then on top of all that you have to put up with guys like Osborne and my self why are you even considering to rent a bar in Soi 7 you must be bonkers. Come- on even a chimpanzee with a half a brain can suss it out.

problem here is that the Thai owners are simply asking for too much money for rent and key money, there just aren't enough customers to go round, what you posted is informative but it also shows that the business model for a bar in pattaya ir seriously flawed and practically impossible, rents need to come down, but there's alway a mug who thinks they can make it, the sums just don't add up if they ever decided to actually work it out before signing a lease

It's just not Pattaya you can adjust the figuers somwhat but the same is true of Bangkok, Hua Hin, Phuket, Chiang Mai and all of Thailand.

[Lovedog100]

thanks for the explanation LoveDog100....

Actually, there are a few bars on East Pattaya where I occasionaly drink if I want to meet up with somebody, single shop house type where I have sat in there for maybe 4-5 hours till midnight (tbh i can't remember exact price is but think it is around 65-75 baht range) I would maybe spend 500 baht in these outings with very little other customers and have wondered if they do in fact even breakeven?? Sounds like they don't ??

Anyway good luck with your business but i fail to see the point laying out approx $4500 per month for such low profits .....you sound like a reasonably smart chap as you can at least crunch the numbers (this is probaly beyond some owners) so you should open yourself a brokerage account and dabble on the markets.. sounds alot less riskier and work than running a bar ???

Crunching the numbers seems to be beyond many of the people that open bars here. That is why they change hands so often. I didn't even mention the cost of starting a company, liquor license, music license, any CD played needs a payment to the record label, and of course no matter how many licenses the place has, still the police have to be paid. The bar I spoke of was leased, and the fool sunk a whole lot of money into it remodeling it. I give it 3 months before it goes under, or is sold. I've looked for over a year, and have yet seen anything that would make a profit. The places that do, have been there a long time and are paying substantially less rent, on top of charging more for drinks. Still, fools will get off the plane after selling a home in their country and invest in something that is doomed from the start. That's why rents don't go down, a lot of these fools get off the plane every month.

"getgoing: I've said this many times to many bar owners. The busiest place in town is the cheapest place. There are other considerations. Entertainment is a big one. No one listens."

OK get going, which would you rather have, 12 customers with 11 Bht a beer profit, or 2 with 66 Bht a beer profit?

I'll take the 2 any day. Lest staff to have to deal with them, less trash, more seats available, fewer people to make happy. Of the two, which do you think is more likely to buy a lady drink, or pay a bar fine? If you said the two, you would be right.

As for good entertainment. I agree, However... Take one of the places with good Philippine bands like Moon River Pub on North road, The Honey Pot on Soi2, or FLB on walking street. They are paying well over 150,000 BHT a month Just for the band. They also have to supply a large amount of the equipment because the band can't afford to buy it themselves. How much does that add to the cost of a beer? Even Tony with all his Millions reopened Tony's cool spot a couple of months ago. To save some money, he got a Thai band, then had two American vocalists. The Americans are gone now, replaced with one Thai vocalist. He just wasn't making the money. Check out Lucifer's on walking street. A beer will set you back 150 BHT, but I will bet that 40-50 Bht of that goes just to pay the bands. No one can go into business and lose money month after month and still stay in business. Would you work of you had to pay your boss every week for the honor of working? hel_l no, you wouldn't work for free either.

It's not the bar owners here guys. Sure some of them are stupid. Most are businessmen trying to give you an honest product at a fair price. Everything is stacked against them here. Right off the bat he is paying 100% more for rent than a Thai would pay renting the same place. With Rents, police, cost of beer, licenses that no Thai is required to have. No one has ever been able to explain to me why a beer here where the average wage is 3 or 400 Bht a day costs twice as much as a beer in the states where the workers make a good union wage. How can a tin roof with no walls, cost more per year to rent than it cost to build?

Many people here have opened a thread asking about opening a bar in Pattaya, or Thailand. Always the bar owners advise against it. It's not because they are scared of the competition. They know that the person asking hasn't thought it all out, or ran the numbers. Until your a bar owner, you don't even know what all the numbers are. Just the number of weird licenses is staggering. I have yet to see a bar open with everything in order. At the first police raid you find out what you missed, and how much you are going to have to pay them. The next raid there will still be something they find.

I talked with a guy just the other day. I sat and talked with him for hours. He wants 7.5 million for his bar. That is what he paid. At the same time he loses money every day except Friday, and he doesn't make enough on Friday to cover the losses the rest of the week. Together we went through the books. His bar isn't worth 1 million. Still he has 7.5 invested and doesn't want to lose it. Right now he is sticking to his price because he afraid of losing his life savings. There will be one of three outcomes. 1. some fool fresh off the plane will offer something close to what he wants and he will sell this turkey. 2. He will just close down after he runs out of money to keep it open. 3. he will sell at a big loss. Cutting his profit on a beer by 50% to double the number of people coming in won't help. It's doubtful that twice as many would come in anyway. I feel sorry for him, and his situation. Not enough to over pay for something that is going to fail though.

If the price of a drink is most important to you, go to the place with the cheapest drinks. If entertainment is #1, you will have to pay a little extra. You just can't have both. Telling a bar owner what he has to do doesn't work. He knows what he can afford, and you don't.

[steady]

i can rememeber before (probably not now) I could buy a case of San Miquel which worked out about 27 baht in those wholesale shops which are scattered everywhere..... so then a bar sells it for 45 baht.. thats an uplift of approx 60% which is pretty good considering how easy the product is to handle as it doesn't go off like, say, fruit and veg where you have to allow for waste...

Anyway I'm talking about "bars" that consist of 4 counters, a fridge and a couple of fans.... so if someone can't see the common sense of paying less for a beer in a bar in the same vincinity thats up to them....

"thats sums up about 85 % of Pattaya day time clientele.. even though I'm not a business guru, thats not a bad share of the market...especially if your bar consists of the open air tin roof variety..."

William, maybe I can educate you just a little on how owning a bar works. First off an open air tin roof in Pattaya is not cheap. In fact an enclosed bar in BKK costs less. Pattaya rents are really high. I looked at an open air tin roof place on Soi 7 last month. Let's assume I took it. There was one million Bht a year key money and the rent was 70,000 a month. Take the one million and devide it by 12 months, that comes to 83333 Bht add the 70,000 Bht per month and you get the true rent for a month 153,333 a month.

Now that 27Bht San Miguel you talk of actually costs 34 Bht delivered. Sell that beer for 45 Bht and there is a profit (not really, I'll explain) of 11 Bht That is 7.5% profit, not 60%

I'm sure that you like your beer cold, so I will have to buy ice every day to keep it cold. One bag won't do it. Lets say that I only spend 1,000 Bht a month on ice, because I really don't care how cold the beer is, after all I give you a condom for the bottle, and a cool cloth to wipe the sweat off you. Oops, another 1,000 Bht or a month

You will not go in if the lights are not on or fans running, so lets add 2,000 Bht a month for electricity.

Now we will assume a light bulb never burns out, a glass never brakes, no one ever knocks over a speaker, and chairs never break or get worn out, and coolers run forever. WE will make maintenance 0 Bht

My clientele only cares about price of beer, and not service, or ladies, so I skimp on those. I hire one casheer at 5,000 a manager at 10,000 and have two ladies serving during the day, and two more at night, the cheapest rate for a fat 35 year old woman with bad strech marks is 2,500 Bht each. (we are all the same here, and a bar with only two ladies working will attract us right in) we have a total staff costs of 25,000 Bht

We won't add in the cost of things I had to buy to open the bar. Like furniture, glasses, a sign, light fixtures, fans, sound system, after all, they are cheap, and I shouldn't need to recoup the cost anyway, after all, I'm the bar owner. That should be enough.

Let's add those costs up. Rent 153,333 Keeping beer cold 2,000 electricity 2,000 maintenance 0 staff 25,000 that equals 183,333 Bht I have to pay to serve you a half warm beer by an ugly lady. If we take that 183,333 and divide it by the 11 Bht "profit" I make on a beer and we get 16575, the number of beers I have to sell per month to break even. Divide that by 30 days in a month and we get 552 beers a day I have to sell to break even. Or 552 times 45 Bht per beer equals 24,863 Bht per day my bar has to make to break even.

Lets talk about you for a minute. You will come to my bar because of my cheap prices, and the fine lady company I have available. I'm going to guess you'll take up one of my seats for about two hours and buy three beers got a total profit to me of 33 Bht Now I only have to make 24,833 Bht more today, to break even. Wow. Break even means I don't make any money. That's OK though, I'm only in business to make you happy and comfortable. I don't have to do the things you do,, like have a place to live, eat, drink, take my lady out, or send her family money. It's OK if I can't go to a movie, or pay for a taxi, they are extravagances anyway.

Is there anything else I can do for you?

Maybe I should give you my girlfriend for 33 Bht for 2 hours also. dam_n, I'll be rolling in money then.

I'm interested in your girlfriend at 33 baht for 2 hours....but I'm a bit concerned that she might be the 35 year old one with stretch marks. Would you give me a discount ?

[davethailand]

thanks for the explanation LoveDog100....

Actually, there are a few bars on East Pattaya where I occasionaly drink if I want to meet up with somebody, single shop house type where I have sat in there for maybe 4-5 hours till midnight (tbh i can't remember exact price is but think it is around 65-75 baht range) I would maybe spend 500 baht in these outings with very little other customers and have wondered if they do in fact even breakeven?? Sounds like they don't ??

Anyway good luck with your business but i fail to see the point laying out approx $4500 per month for such low profits .....you sound like a reasonably smart chap as you can at least crunch the numbers (this is probaly beyond some owners) so you should open yourself a brokerage account and dabble on the markets.. sounds alot less riskier and work than running a bar ???

Crunching the numbers seems to be beyond many of the people that open bars here. That is why they change hands so often. I didn't even mention the cost of starting a company, liquor license, music license, any CD played needs a payment to the record label, and of course no matter how many licenses the place has, still the police have to be paid. The bar I spoke of was leased, and the fool sunk a whole lot of money into it remodeling it. I give it 3 months before it goes under, or is sold. I've looked for over a year, and have yet seen anything that would make a profit. The places that do, have been there a long time and are paying substantially less rent, on top of charging more for drinks. Still, fools will get off the plane after selling a home in their country and invest in something that is doomed from the start. That's why rents don't go down, a lot of these fools get off the plane every month.

"getgoing: I've said this many times to many bar owners. The busiest place in town is the cheapest place. There are other considerations. Entertainment is a big one. No one listens."

OK get going, which would you rather have, 12 customers with 11 Bht a beer profit, or 2 with 66 Bht a beer profit?

I'll take the 2 any day. Lest staff to have to deal with them, less trash, more seats available, fewer people to make happy. Of the two, which do you think is more likely to buy a lady drink, or pay a bar fine? If you said the two, you would be right.

As for good entertainment. I agree, However... Take one of the places with good Philippine bands like Moon River Pub on North road, The Honey Pot on Soi2, or FLB on walking street. They are paying well over 150,000 BHT a month Just for the band. They also have to supply a large amount of the equipment because the band can't afford to buy it themselves. How much does that add to the cost of a beer? Even Tony with all his Millions reopened Tony's cool spot a couple of months ago. To save some money, he got a Thai band, then had two American vocalists. The Americans are gone now, replaced with one Thai vocalist. He just wasn't making the money. Check out Lucifer's on walking street. A beer will set you back 150 BHT, but I will bet that 40-50 Bht of that goes just to pay the bands. No one can go into business and lose money month after month and still stay in business. Would you work of you had to pay your boss every week for the honor of working? hel_l no, you wouldn't work for free either.

It's not the bar owners here guys. Sure some of them are stupid. Most are businessmen trying to give you an honest product at a fair price. Everything is stacked against them here. Right off the bat he is paying 100% more for rent than a Thai would pay renting the same place. With Rents, police, cost of beer, licenses that no Thai is required to have. No one has ever been able to explain to me why a beer here where the average wage is 3 or 400 Bht a day costs twice as much as a beer in the states where the workers make a good union wage. How can a tin roof with no walls, cost more per year to rent than it cost to build?

Many people here have opened a thread asking about opening a bar in Pattaya, or Thailand. Always the bar owners advise against it. It's not because they are scared of the competition. They know that the person asking hasn't thought it all out, or ran the numbers. Until your a bar owner, you don't even know what all the numbers are. Just the number of weird licenses is staggering. I have yet to see a bar open with everything in order. At the first police raid you find out what you missed, and how much you are going to have to pay them. The next raid there will still be something they find.

I talked with a guy just the other day. I sat and talked with him for hours. He wants 7.5 million for his bar. That is what he paid. At the same time he loses money every day except Friday, and he doesn't make enough on Friday to cover the losses the rest of the week. Together we went through the books. His bar isn't worth 1 million. Still he has 7.5 invested and doesn't want to lose it. Right now he is sticking to his price because he afraid of losing his life savings. There will be one of three outcomes. 1. some fool fresh off the plane will offer something close to what he wants and he will sell this turkey. 2. He will just close down after he runs out of money to keep it open. 3. he will sell at a big loss. Cutting his profit on a beer by 50% to double the number of people coming in won't help. It's doubtful that twice as many would come in anyway. I feel sorry for him, and his situation. Not enough to over pay for something that is going to fail though.

If the price of a drink is most important to you, go to the place with the cheapest drinks. If entertainment is #1, you will have to pay a little extra. You just can't have both. Telling a bar owner what he has to do doesn't work. He knows what he can afford, and you don't.

If thats all they are paying then they are having a result, I pay more than twice that.

[rayong09]

Nice post Lovedog100 and absolutely correct.

If Fred the Factory worker from Felixstowe clocks in and clocks off at work for 25 years then sells his 2 up 2 down then moves to Thailand and opens a bar how the hel_l do these people honestly think they're going to make a living being self employed and their own boss, it just isn't in their nature, that's not being nasty just a fact.

Let me give you a quick example of the stupidity of some expats. My father lives in Spain, he noticed a man sitting outside his bar looking extremely distressed. My father walked over and asked if he was OK. He replied no I have been had over I'm going to loose my life savings. I have bought this bar and when I came to view it, it was busy and the books looked like it was making a healthy profit. Since I have been open it has been dead every day, it looks like they have ripped me off by making the bar look busy when really it isn't.

My father said let me have a look at your paper work if you don't mind I will see if I can give you some advice. The man returned with the paper work for the bar. He had paid 80,000 Euros for this bar and this is the absolute killer.......he genuinely thought he owned it my father said look its leasehold you rent it not own it, owning is Freehold, he said and wait for it...."he didn't know there was a difference"!!! He thought the monthly payments were maintenance for the complex the bar was in, my father said no that's rent!!!!

Anyway he was in a helpless situation and went home after a while and lost everything, didn't even use a lawyer when he paid the money. Like Lovedog100 says, there are plane loads of suckers landing every day packing up to live the dream, return home shattered and broke not just in Thailand but all over the world.

[Rumcabal]

Excellent posts Lovedog100. They should be compulsory reading for anyone thinking of opening a bar in Thailand. If you do eventually decide to open a bar yourself, let us know where. I reckon it will be a success.

[Gary A]

Trying to make a living running a bar is a REALLY tough way to go. The major problem is that it is not a level playing field. Your costs are going to be considerably higher than your Thai competition. You will have a number of friends who come in to have a couple of beers. They get pissed off if you don't sit and drink with them. Some are anxious to give you advice on changes that need to be made. Their intentions are normally good but they don't have a clue about running a business, especially a business in Thailand.

The bottom line is that it is not your money and if you think the boss is stupid for whatever reason, that's their business and NOT yours. If the boss does make a living, he is going to work harder and more hours than he did with any job he ever had.

Being tied to a marginal business 24/7 and not being able to pick up and holiday for a couple of weeks is also a bummer. My personal opinion is that Thailand is an incredibly corrupt country and a farang needs to think long and hard about opening any business here.

[jupiler]

Starting/buying a bar in Pattaya, is indeed the most stupid thing to do. Unfortunatly, most people realise that when theyr savings are all down the drain.

Compare beerprices in girly bars to other country's, Pattaya is probably the cheapest place on earth!

[Ulysses G.]

Trying to make a living running a bar is a REALLY tough way to go. The major problem is that it is not a level playing field. Your costs are going to be considerably higher than your Thai competition.

One major problem is all the idiots (in my personal opinion) with hobby businesses who are perfectly happy to lose money as long as it isn't too much. They ruin it for those who need to make an income off their business.

[Dpolenz]

i WOULD HARDLY CALL THEM "IDIOTS"PLUS THEY ARE ENTITLED TO RUN THERE BUISNESS ANY WAY THAT THEY WANT.IF THEY CAN AFFORD TO RUN A BUISNESS AS JUST A HOBBY THEN THAT MEANS THEY ARE FINANCIALLY ALREADY SECURE,SO IDIOTS THEY ARE NOT.

[torrenova]

Some useful points and though there are some far of the mark assumptions and some errors which skew the argument, the gist is on the right track. However, the generally accepted and simplistic percentages for costs, salaries and profits do not work in Thailand and the in the bar game, they work even less. Bragging it might be but I can crunch the numbers better than most and I've done bars in Pattaya for years and always made money.

The problem most people make when they get into the bar business is that they do not separate their life and the business. I reality, you cannot, but you have to mathematically. If you need Bt1m a year to survive (and you have actually done your sums and it is not just a piss poor guestimate), then having one business which makes you Bt800k is not going to work out is it ? The fact that your business does not cover your expenditure does not in itself make it a bad business. However, it does mean that you cannot go on like that for very long.

Think about how many people you know who have small businesses in Pattaya who only have that one business ? Most of them I think. So most of them are likely to make around what they spend or supplement it with income from their previous life. Some have to curtail their life to the income produced from their business.

Now think about your 800k profit business again and you guy needing Bt1m to survive. If he had 2 of these businesses, then he would be fine, generating 600k more each year than he needed. If he is smart, he banks that, reinvests either in his existing or new businesses and over time, he has a diversified portfolio of say 5 businesses, all making 500-800k and he nets 3-4m a year, continually spending only a fraction of that and either building up a large bank balance or buying ever more business interests. OK, that is a "perfect" scenario but not impossible. In fact, whilst everyone would like a business giving you $100k or more in your pocket each year, it is much easier to get a few small businesses which can operate with limited management input but which all contribute.

People have to get to a level where their business generates a significant amount over what they need for a comfortable lifestyle. Bars can do this but not if you only arrive with enough cash for a bar which barely supports your lifestyle. That is what most do and that is the most fundamental point where they go wrong.