Thaksins Assets

[webfact]

THAKSIN'S ASSETS

AEC member testifies in Thaksin's assets case

By The Nation

Published on November 13, 2009

Kaewsun Atibodhi, a former member of the defunct Assets Examination Committee (AEC), testified yesterday as a prosecution witness before the Supreme Court in the case in which fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra is accused of being unusually wealthy.

If found guilty, Thaksin could see Bt76.6 billion in assets seized, if the money is deemed to have been acquired improperly.

Kaewsun told yesterday's hearing an AEC investigation found that Thaksin and his then-wife, Khunying Pojaman, still held shares in companies based overseas - Ample Rich and Win Mark - although they claimed to have "sold" the shares to members of their family, including their son and daughter.

Under the constitution at the time, it was against the law for Cabinet members or their spouses to hold more than 5 per cent of shares in any company.

Kaewsun told the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders that Thaksin and Pojaman were found to hold more than 5 per cent of shares in the two companies when Thaksin was serving as prime minister.

He said that shares in the two companies were transferred to many family members but the money earned from the sale of the shares eventually went into Pojaman's bank accounts.

During a cross-examination by Thaksin's lawyers, Kaewsun's qualification as an AEC member was questioned because he had earlier written a book critical of Thaksin. Kaewsun said he made the criticism sincerely due to Thaksin's action and that he had no personal grudge against him.

Thaksin's lawyers were told by the court not to repeat their questions too often. They said they did that because they could not understand Kaewsun's answers. The court told them his answers were well understood by judges and that the lawyers might have to look at themselves for failing to understand.

The AEC was set up after the coup in September 2006 to investigate alleged corruption by Thaksin and members of his Cabinet. A number of cases investigated by the AEC have since gone to court.

-- The Nation 2009/11/13

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[plachon]

Looks like the price of a lunch box is getting a whole lot more pricey these days....................

[Meridian007]

If found guilty, Thaksin could see Bt76.6 billion in assets seized, if the money is deemed to have been acquired improperly.

Wasn't it already "seized"? I thought it was in holding until this ridiculously long court case is completed? Hopefully recent events will speed things up a bit.

I think that if the decision is not made in Thaksin's favour, and there is no recourse for an appeal, he will lose interest in his shenanigans. The red shirts, black Songkran, and now all of this in Cambodia are all an attempt to get back in and stop this case.

When will we see a conclusion to this? I remember something about a December judgment?

[animatic]

"Under the constitution at the time, it was against the law for Cabinet members or their spouses to hold more than 5 per cent of shares in any company."

Well this is the crux of the biscuit.

This is why Thaksin is circling like a shark and doing the Cambodia distractions.

Note this is under the 1997 constitution and the new one is even stricter.

So that's why the Red Shirts want it rolled back.

"He said that shares in the two companies were transferred to many family members

but the money earned from the sale of the shares eventually went into Pojaman's bank accounts."

This is right to the point and also explains their divorce of convenience.

They were not good at the paper trail AFTER the money was made,

only about making it appear to not be their money,

and the shares not under their control...

But as the old adage goes follow the money.

Edited November 13, 2009 by animatic

[Samuian]

Plain greed, power obsessed and lost in the believe being an "Untouchable" - holding highest office in their very own hands - best evidence for taking advantage of being the head of the state getting lost in corrupt deals, if not supporting corruption to serve ones very own ambitions!

Edited November 13, 2009 by Samuian

[DocHolliday]

and... what do the legal experts on this forum have to say on that?

Will he get that money back or not? Any prediction?

[trogers]

and... what do the legal experts on this forum have to say on that?

Will he get that money back or not? Any prediction?

He will get his money back if his 2nd lot of 'honest mistakes' is to be believed...

The first lot was held through the names of household and office employees...and now through his children...

[Thailand]

and... what do the legal experts on this forum have to say on that?

Will he get that money back or not? Any prediction?

Not a snowballs chance in h-ll if the current government have anything to do with it and you can bet they do.

[animatic]

If he gets the lions share back, he will have enough to bring the country to it's knees and take over...

He will want revenge. They know it he knows it, they can't allow that at this point in time.

And the AEC guy just testified there is a paper trail to show that it is shadily acquired.

Potjamin might get some back, but Thaksin will have a much higher level of proof to provide.

Yes in Thailand often guilty until proven innocent. There was visible reasons to freeze the cash,

and proof must be provided of the money's provenance.

[LawnGnome]

His money is as good as gone. I hope it will be spent educating the rural poor. But, really, Im sure that is what Thaksin was planning to do with his money anyway, right?

[MILT]

and... what do the legal experts on this forum have to say on that?

Will he get that money back or not? Any prediction?

Not a Chance but I am sure TS has many plan B's and with this news I am sure well will witness yet another.

[EnhancePlus]

His money is as good as gone. I hope it will be spent educating the rural poor. But, really, Im sure that is what Thaksin was planning to do with his money anyway, right?

Great idea! I love it. Too bad all the greedy mitts of the government are already out pre-purchasing their new benzes and beamers. That is the education the rural poor will get

Edited November 13, 2009 by EnhancePlus

[hammered]

This issue is central to everything Thaksin is doing.

[givenall]

Looks like the price of a lunch box is getting a whole lot more pricey these days....................

No Problem, since Mr. T believe in recreation , he can do in Cambodia what he did in Thailand to cumulate wealth

[JetsetBkk]

the defunct Assets Examination Committee (AEC) ...... ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra is accused of being unusually wealthy.

How convenient for the current government, army generals, etc that the AEC is "defunct". I wonder how many of them would be considered "unusually wealthy".

[Ricardo]

the defunct Assets Examination Committee (AEC) ...... ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra is accused of being unusually wealthy.

How convenient for the current government, army generals, etc that the AEC is "defunct". I wonder how many of them would be considered "unusually wealthy".

Agreed, having reached the point where it is possible to bring an ex-PM to court, and convict him of anything at all, which I view as a significant step forward, this process needs to continue, not stop.

[Stumbo]

His money is as good as gone. I hope it will be spent educating the rural poor. But, really, Im sure that is what Thaksin was planning to do with his money anyway, right?

Great idea! I love it. Too bad all the greedy mitts of the government are already out pre-purchasing their new benzes and beamers. That is the education the rural poor will get

Yes, agree that don't want Taksin cashed up, but this is the real reason, to dilute it as it passes through many hands. Educating the rural poor, unfortunately many still don't realize that the current regimes idea is to keep them ignorant and in their place. Well I suppose that helps keep the bars full, some may see that as maintaining the staus quo for expats as well.

[TAWP]

Well, it would be a masterstroke of genius if the money seized was publicly declared to be used for helping all rural poor throughout the nation (not only in the north).

I'm not holding my breath ofcourse, but one can dream.

Edit: 76 billion put into the hands of 1 million adults, is 76k per person.

Edited November 13, 2009 by TAWP

[Kitsch22]

His money is as good as gone. I hope it will be spent educating the rural poor.

You mean "educating" as in "teaching them that in the new improved democracy their votes will elect, say, 30% of the legislature and all candidates must be approved by the military anyway"?

[jackspratt]

His money is as good as gone. I hope it will be spent educating the rural poor.

You mean "educating" as in "teaching them that in the new improved democracy their votes will elect, say, 30% of the legislature and all candidates must be approved by the military anyway"?

Why do you put what appears to be only your delusional thoughts in quotes?

Did someone else of any relevance say it?

Edited November 13, 2009 by jackspratt

[JetsetBkk]

the defunct Assets Examination Committee (AEC) ...... ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra is accused of being unusually wealthy.

How convenient for the current government, army generals, etc that the AEC is "defunct". I wonder how many of them would be considered "unusually wealthy".

Agreed, having reached the point where it is possible to bring an ex-PM to court, and convict him of anything at all, which I view as a significant step forward, this process needs to continue, not stop.

Yes - they should be reinstated and made to work their way down the list of disgustingly rich b@stards who currently sit on their fat @rses laughing at the shenanigans and waste of human endeavour bringing one disgustingly rich b@stard to jail where he belongs.

But then again, they were only created to get Thaksin, so they did their job.

[hammered]

Win Mark was always one of Thakins biggets weakpoints legally. The cases may be seen as politcal, or the bringing of the cases maybe better terminology, but that doesnt mean there arent some bits that do indeed look a bit dodgy to say the least and may indeed be criminal.

[Bagwan]

and... what do the legal experts on this forum have to say on that?

Will he get that money back or not? Any prediction?

Not a snowballs chance in h-ll if the current government have anything to do with it and you can bet they do.

It was Thaksin himself who said that anybody caught with their hands in the till would be severely punished - and that it would not matter if there were no receipts i.e. no paper trail. If those sentiments are followed than Thaksin should be behind bars now and forget about legal process.

[LawnGnome]

His money is as good as gone. I hope it will be spent educating the rural poor. But, really, Im sure that is what Thaksin was planning to do with his money anyway, right?

Great idea! I love it. Too bad all the greedy mitts of the government are already out pre-purchasing their new benzes and beamers. That is the education the rural poor will get

Yes, agree that don't want Taksin cashed up, but this is the real reason, to dilute it as it passes through many hands. Educating the rural poor, unfortunately many still don't realize that the current regimes idea is to keep them ignorant and in their place. Well I suppose that helps keep the bars full, some may see that as maintaining the staus quo for expats as well.

Actually, as a university educator, I have seen several positives signs from the current education minister. The lastest is the Thailand Quality Framework, which we just had a seminar about last week. It will look at curriculum, not only vertically, but horizontally, as to how certain issues are taught in classes, such as critical thinking, ethics and responsibility, etc. One of my friends, who is a past present of the SE Asian International schools assoc. thinks that this type of curriculum reform is badly needed, and quite good in concept.

I would say that the government trying to make 12 year access to schools for free (or at least lessen the "extra costs" as much as possible, its one of its greatest political platforms. I have enjoyed seeing them talk about spending more to renovate school buildings, and they seem to work working to make universities more accountable (more for the lower tiered unversities). Perfect, no. I would spend even more money, and make teacher retraining a huge national agenda target. But a step up from a few of the previous recommendations (One latop, one child, one extra baht for me, from Thaksin's playbook, etc).

My university enjoys a nice benefit from Abhisit being in charge, as Abhisit's father used to be the president, so we get good budget consideration. I appiciate that, and try to produce the best graduates I can, as do my collegues.

[Old Man River]

and... what do the legal experts on this forum have to say on that?

Will he get that money back or not? Any prediction?

Not a snowballs chance in h-ll if the current government have anything to do with it and you can bet they do.

In a normal situation, I would agree with you. Now is not normal.

[webfact]

THAKSIN ASSETS CASE

FINAL COUNTDOWN

By THE NATION

Published on November 21, 2009

Say you are put in charge of a state livestock project that provides great facilities for all cow-owners. You get the job on one major condition: you cannot raise your own cow, let alone use it to reap any benefits from the project.

Violate that condition and the state will take away whatever is deemed your undeserved produce.

The question is if you do breach the rule, can the state take your cow? You bought it yourself. You have spent a lot of money raising it. When it fell ill, you paid the vet with your own cash.

If the answer is no, another question emerges: what is the undeserved produce? The legs? The body? The head? The entire cow has grown remarkably in its entirety since you fed it at the project site. And you did it knowing full well the consequences of your actions.

This analogy is what the Supreme Court hearing Thailand's biggest-ever political and corruption case is facing. The trial, centred on ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's Bt76 billion in alleged unusual wealth, will likely wrap up in two weeks' time, and a historic verdict that will have far-reaching repercussions on various aspects of Thai society is expected next month - and sooner rather than later.

Thailand has been grappling with the issue of conflict of interest ever since Thaksin was poised to become prime minister. The costly soul-searching has brought about an unprecedented national divide and one great political crisis after another. A main chapter will be concluded when the court hands down its verdict.

The prosecution believes it received a big boost on Thursday when a senior Securities and Exchange Commission member testified there was reliable evidence of massive shareholding concealment in the telecom business that Thaksin was supposed to give up on becoming prime minister.

The testimony, by assistant secretary-general Waratchaya Srimachand, corroborated findings by the Assets Examination Committee (AEC), whose origins have been decried by the Thaksin camp because it was set up after the September 19, 2006 coup.

Kaewsan Atibhodi, who led the AEC, has finished his testimony and expressed satisfaction with the prosecution's presentation. He said the case against Thaksin was built on three main arguments: Thaksin concealed his telecom shares while prime minister; the concealed shares belonged to businesses that benefited from his government's actions; and the laws prescribe "seizure of related assets" to punish such offences.

The defence's hopes of discrediting the investigators - the AEC - have been dashed by a lot of transaction information that the 2006 coup could not have brought about. Therefore, the defence's main strategy has been the "I paid for my cow" argument.

Kaewsan said what had been presented before the court included how the investigators established that Ample Rich, Win Mark and Thaksin's children were simply his nominees, while the fugitive ex-prime minister and his wife controlled a dizzying movement of shares of his telecom empire. The court has also been told how Thaksin not only controlled those shares, but also helped them increase in value through dubious state decisions.

He is confident the complete picture has been presented at the trial.

"Kanchanapa Honghern [Thaksin's ex-wife's personal assistant] was the movie director, Pojaman [na Pombejra, Thaksin's ex-wife] the producer, and Thaksin the owner of this movie project," Kaewsan said.

On Monday: The prosecution's case in detail.

-- The Nation 2009/11/21

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[Ricardo]

Educating the rural poor, unfortunately many still don't realize that the current regimes idea is to keep them ignorant and in their place.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss, you mean ?

Well, it would be a masterstroke of genius if the money seized was publicly declared to be used for helping all rural poor throughout the nation (not only in the north).

I'm not holding my breath ofcourse, but one can dream.

For what it's worth, probably not much, I would share that dream.

If only Thaksin had also been willing to share, just a part of his unusual increase in wealth while in power, than I believe he would probably still be in power. But that was never going to happen, was it ? A 'man of the people' and self-proclaimed 'fighter for the poor', actually using some small part of his own wealth to achieve his stated-aims, ... Nah !

[mca]

the defunct Assets Examination Committee (AEC) ...... ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra is accused of being unusually wealthy.

How convenient for the current government, army generals, etc that the AEC is "defunct". I wonder how many of them would be considered "unusually wealthy".

It does make me wonder how many of the folks who were out for Thaksin's blood would hang around and face the music if the AEC had investigated them and found that their army general or MPs salary really doesn't stretch to their nice 100 million baht seafront property with his and her S-Classes.

"Yes. You've got me bang to rights. I'll accept my punishment like a man."

Sure.

The only ones to do time would be the ones too slow crossing the nearest border.

Edited November 21, 2009 by mca

[mca]

My university enjoys a nice benefit from Abhisit being in charge, as Abhisit's father used to be the president, so we get good budget consideration. I appiciate that, and try to produce the best graduates I can, as do my collegues.

LawnGnome. What would your stance be if Thaksin was still in power and decided to give a university "good budget consideration" because maybe he was pally with the dean or something? Genuine question.

[Gary A]

Thai laws are enforced VERY selectively. Isn't it strange that the government is able to follow the money for selected individuals but not the rest of the politicians?