Fines For Traffic Offences 'too Weak'

[BigBikeBKK]

Be careful with what you wish. One of the main reason i came to Thailand 9 years ago was because there was more personal freedom here ( I am not speaking about politics here ).

Please, please, stop trying to make from Thailand a Western country or I will have to move on.

Well said! I freakin' LOVE the complete lack of traffic enforcement in this country combined with above average roads. My friends and I laugh about how many times we'd have lost our licenses back home if we drove the way we do here in the Land of Smiles. A personal favorite:

Happy Trails!

[BigBikeBKK]

Which reminds me, I need to get a good Thai translation for: "The closer you get, the slower I go. Please drive safely." to put on the back window of the car. Really tired of Somchai sitting 5mm off my bumper.

Heh heh - when they ride my ass I just take my foot off the gas- drives 'em nuts doesn't it?!

I want one in Thai that says, "I brake for tail gaters"

[BigBikeBKK]

Show me one Thai, that given the chance, wouldn't want to live in the west, or at least work there.

I have plenty of middle class Thai friends who have lived, studied and worked abroad and prefer to live in Thailand. The "west" isn't all it's cracked up to be...

[ScubaBuddha]

Staying my wife family near Rangsit the %of thais who do not wear a helmet here must be near 90% no joke nobody cares I have seen kid aged about eight riding mopeds with two friends on the back all with no helmets on. I have no seen one policeman yet here I guess the bibs make money elsewhere

You are where the bad (scapedgoated) BIB go to be punished. IE They don't get the oportunity to exploit and extort like they do in the tourist or urban areas.

[phetaroi]

Seconded! If one wishes to engage into Western lifestyles and extensions, than it would seem logical to live in a Western country.

Since you have a "general dislike, distrust, disgust, contempt, or hatred of the human species", why are you hear communicating with us? Why are you contributing your thoughts to our society?

[phetaroi]

None of us posters are trying to turn Thailand into a "western country". All we're pointing out is ways to make Thailand a safer place to drive in. Even if we were trying to make Thailand into a "western country" what's wrong with that ? Show me one Thai, that given the chance, wouldn't want to live in the west, or at least work there.

Exactly. I think most of us are advocating pretty basic stuff here. Like driving on the wrong side of the road. Not bothering to stop at intersections. Gross speeding.

Sunday I was at Paragon and, although I'm not sure if it was a protest per say, there was a "remembrance" of those killed in car accidents in Thailand...by dozens of Thais permanently crippled in wheelchairs. Those of you who say let's not have reasonable traffic laws -- and I'm amazed at how many of you ignoramuses are here -- are saying to those permanently paralyzed auto accident victims -- "Tough titties, my freedom is more important that you being able to lead a normal life."

[brahmburgers]

I reckon confiscate the vehicles in real dodgy incidents and destroy them.

Confiscate the vehicles for 1st offense and give them back a week later.

For 2nd offences, sell/auction the vehicle and use the money to care for crash victims and/or education.

Similarly, I never got behind authorities burning elephant tusks confiscated from traffickers. I can understand the psychological factor, however, why not sell the tusks (to the Chinese, who'll pay highest), and use the money to beef up law enforcement.

Be careful with what you wish. One of the main reason i came to Thailand 9 years ago was because there was more personal freedom here ( I am not speaking about politics here ).

Please, please, stop trying to make from Thailand a Western country or I will have to move on.

Hear Hear, I agree.... 'Please, please, stop trying to make from Thailand a Western country '

It's bigger than 'Thailand / western country' .....it's about extremely selfish and ignorant people threatening others' life and limb. If I see a man callously beating a child or tethered animal, or a woman, I don't as much care what nationality the brute is - as I care to stop the brutality. Consequences of callous drivers in Thailand can be brutal. It just so happens most of the driving brutality in Thailand is caused by Thais. If you want to get apologetic about that, ....or if you want to tell me to go back to the country I resided in decades ago, or call me a racist, go ahead. Doesn't bother me.

[joorakee]

Show me one Thai, that given the chance, wouldn't want to live in the west, or at least work there.

I have plenty of middle class Thai friends who have lived, studied and worked abroad and prefer to live in Thailand. The "west" isn't all it's cracked up to be...

I know some (upper-)middle class Thais who return(ed) by choice from Japan to Thailand (like me to my home country), too.

Home, sweet home.

[rfukata]

it all begins from common sense and education in Thailand.

90% of drivers in Thailand do not qualify for a drivers license of any sort as they can not comprehend driving etiquette and rules.

-common in Thai standard;

underage driving, no insurance, no maintenance, no papers, no drivers license, minimal child seats, and much more.

Cops and law-enforcement don't really give a rats As_s as the fines (higher the better) will yield them a healthy source of

bonus income.

[caf]

I reckon confiscate the vehicles in real dodgy incidents and destroy them.

Confiscate the vehicles for 1st offense and give them back a week later.

For 2nd offences, sell/auction the vehicle and use the money to care for crash victims and/or education.

Similarly, I never got behind authorities burning elephant tusks confiscated from traffickers. I can understand the psychological factor, however, why not sell the tusks (to the Chinese, who'll pay highest), and use the money to beef up law enforcement.

Be careful with what you wish. One of the main reason i came to Thailand 9 years ago was because there was more personal freedom here ( I am not speaking about politics here ).

Please, please, stop trying to make from Thailand a Western country or I will have to move on.

Hear Hear, I agree.... 'Please, please, stop trying to make from Thailand a Western country '

It's bigger than 'Thailand / western country' .....it's about extremely selfish and ignorant people threatening others' life and limb. If I see a man callously beating a child or tethered animal, or a woman, I don't as much care what nationality the brute is - as I care to stop the brutality. Consequences of callous drivers in Thailand can be brutal. It just so happens most of the driving brutality in Thailand is caused by Thais. If you want to get apologetic about that, ....or if you want to tell me to go back to the country I resided in decades ago, or call me a racist, go ahead. Doesn't bother me.

Seconded

[brahmburgers]

....minimal child seats.

more realistically; no child seats.

...and why has no one been able to invent some sort of child safety device for motorbikes? one hand by mom holding a child in front (with other on handlebar), or dad bending his arm behind to hold a child behind, doesn't do a bit of good in a crash. And small child safety helmets, forget it. I've seen about one in ten thousand, and that was by farang riders.

Little kids riding in front on motorbikes, have their tender faces about 3 cm from the hard plastic speedometer display. How long does it take for a head to travel 3 cm in a 25 Km/hr collision? could someone invent a padded device to attach to the speedometer housing (without blocking its reading)? I might recommend it be detachable with velcro, but then it would be taken off once and never put back on. I reckon a toddler with a maimed face is better than a dead child.

I know Thais love their kids, but how about some proof of that on the roads?

Edited November 17, 2009 by brahmburgers

[selftaopath]

This has to be a joke, yes?

I agree. This country has many laws. How many are enforced? LOL I believe a quote by an Afgan official says it clearly:

"Corruption is the cancer that is destroying the lives of the people," said Justice Minister Mohammad Sarwar Danish.

Unfortunately, I don't think Land of Scams (LOS) will ever head the warnings and the Thai people will continue to suffer. They deserve better.

k

[ableguy]

Just think of the "money" that would be generated if the Thais would simply establish a "real traffic" enforcement team and enforce just the basic traffic laws, like it is done in many western countries. Real traffic cops, real fines, and real traffic courts. They would all be driving new cars, get paid a decent wage, and traffic deaths would drop. In one way over regulation is bad but one the other side, you'd be able to drive somewhere not worrying how much you will be paying for other guys mistake or stupidity.

If they had real traffic enforcement how would the BiB make a living get real.

[PETERTHEEATER]

i know there are cases in china where illegal hawkers have their wares and bicycle confiscated and they end up having to walk quite a distance to reclaim( not traffic violation related but indicative of a method of law enforcement)

That reminds me of when I was in India. A 'Tri-shaw' driver had parked up in a wrong place. A policeman just undid all of the valves on the wheels and threw them away. I thought it to be a good form of punishment.

When I was in the Middle East, the local authorities warned my company to instruct employees not to park in a certain restricted area which was reserved for Ambulances. We never did, it was only the locals who did so.

A couple of days later, I arrived at work and found that the local police had removed the valves from the wheels of two vehicles parked in the reserved space and each had four flat tyres. They were both ambulances

[kutjebu]

I love driving in Thailand.Free style.No helmet and sometimes I not wear my shirt either on the motorbike.

Before I forget it I go every night to the pub and come back on the motorbike,without problems.Same like the sixties in Holland.

Keep on doing the good work Thailand.

[TAWP]

kutjebu>> Thank God for non-socialist medicine, I don't wanna pay for your foolish acts. But the problem is that sometimes it isn't only yourself you are hurting...

[piewarmer]

Every time I drive through Chiang Rai on the main road I notice everyone wears a helmet .

even the passengers...

They are doing something right there... don't know how it's achieved but well done!

Edited November 17, 2009 by piewarmer

[kimamey]

Be careful with what you wish. One of the main reason i came to Thailand 9 years ago was because there was more personal freedom here ( I am not speaking about politics here ).

Please, please, stop trying to make from Thailand a Western country or I will have to move on.

Hear Hear, I agree.... 'Please, please, stop trying to make from Thailand a Western country '

None of us posters are trying to turn Thailand into a "western country". All we're pointing out is ways to make Thailand a safer place to drive in. Even if we were trying to make Thailand into a "western country" what's wrong with that ? Show me one Thai, that given the chance, wouldn't want to live in the west, or at least work there.

Perhaps we should take away all the western influences From Thailand. It would stop most of the injuries and deaths on the roads since there wouldn't be any cars or motorbikes. Of course this forum would close without the western internet. Communication could be difficult without land and mobile phones. I could go on.

Just remembered get rid of all those western farangs.

There problem solved.

Just have to tell my gf now.

[selftaopath]

Just think of the "money" that would be generated if the Thais would simply establish a "real traffic" enforcement team and enforce just the basic traffic laws, like it is done in many western countries. Real traffic cops, real fines, and real traffic courts. They would all be driving new cars, get paid a decent wage, and traffic deaths would drop. In one way over regulation is bad but one the other side, you'd be able to drive somewhere not worrying how much you will be paying for other guys mistake or stupidity.

If they had real traffic enforcement how would the BiB make a living get real.

I agree with the post I believe you responded to. I read: They would all be driving new cars, get paid a decent wage, and traffic deaths would drop. Funds brought in "could" be used to increase the police salaries and possibly reduce corruption -LOLOL or so my thinking leads me :-) However TIT eh?

I firmly believe the average "poor" Thai would love to have much less corruption. Facts are - correct me if I am wrong- the typical Thai person has no representation. Examples of this are numerous.

I cringe with horror when I see a little infant - approx. 2 years old standing up on the footrest of a motorbike/ without a helmet, holding onto the handle bars, head barely rising over them, and an "adult" riding through traffic of BKK. Is this dangerous to only Westerners?

cheers,

k

[Tanaka]

Maybe instead of trying to enforce every rule which will not happen. Start drivers safety training at an early age in schools, teaching young students the importance of safe driving. Start with very simple safety ideas at an early age. Then progress up thru the school grades and even into college. Maybe end with a required final drivers safety class at the age of say 15-16 years. Over time you will have at least some of the drivers thinking more about safe driving than just getting on a bike or in a car and zipping off down the road.

Good suggestion. Ii just wonder who would be qualified to teach??

[Tanaka]

The problem with any kind of increased enforcement/fines is the monetary cost to the poor. A person earning only 200 bt/day will only have perhaps a few hundred baht monthly in their discretionary spending budget, no savings, and no protection or security against emergencies. So this will adversely effect the poor considerably more than the middle or upper classes. It's akin to a regressive system of taxation. All of this is especially true as the current MO of the BiB is to unfairly target motorcycles, i.e. the common Somchai who is barely eeking out an existence.

Well, first they somehow did have money to buy a motorbike. Second, what you say here about poor people meaning they cannot afford to pay the penalties for breaking the laws? Oh, dear. Then the solution must be to abandon the laws, no? Or only for poor people, maybe? Hmm, is about the situation today that.

[Tanaka]

As someone else suggested, I think it is is a good idea to have different levels of fines based on the class of vehicle driven. I don't mean the make/model, but along the lines of 2-wheel, 3, wheel, 4-wheel private, 4-wheel commercial, and large commercial truck or bus.

Totally disagree!

It is not the vehicle that breaks the law, but the driver.

True of course. But, when breaking the law, the damage you can do is far greater with a 30 ton truck, an 18-wheeler or a bus than with a motorbike. Not talking about damage to the driver.

[Tanaka]

I love driving in Thailand.Free style.No helmet and sometimes I not wear my shirt either on the motorbike.

Before I forget it I go every night to the pub and come back on the motorbike,without problems.Same like the sixties in Holland.

Keep on doing the good work Thailand.

They say there is one born every minute. I wish it were the opposite, two less every minute. Albert Einstein alledgely said: "There are only two things that are infinite, universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe."

[way2muchcoffee]

The problem with any kind of increased enforcement/fines is the monetary cost to the poor. A person earning only 200 bt/day will only have perhaps a few hundred baht monthly in their discretionary spending budget, no savings, and no protection or security against emergencies. So this will adversely effect the poor considerably more than the middle or upper classes. It's akin to a regressive system of taxation. All of this is especially true as the current MO of the BiB is to unfairly target motorcycles, i.e. the common Somchai who is barely eeking out an existence.

Well, first they somehow did have money to buy a motorbike. Second, what you say here about poor people meaning they cannot afford to pay the penalties for breaking the laws? Oh, dear. Then the solution must be to abandon the laws, no? Or only for poor people, maybe? Hmm, is about the situation today that.

Nope. I think that the penalties should be based on average salaries and/or average discretionary spending in the country. A 3,000 bt fine for a simple traffic violation in Thailand would be equivalent to nearly a $3,000 dollar fine in the US based on average salaries. It would be much more than that if one were to look at discretionary funds available to the average person. All I'm saying is that the penalties are probably about right here IMO.

Edited December 9, 2009 by way2muchcoffee