Corn - Post Production

[CHLEE]

Dear kind reader and expert,

I have planted approximately 80 rai of corn for animal feed. At this moment, it is time for harvest. I wish kind readers and experts here can advise and share some of their expert opinion on my following concerns:

1. How do we know the moistures content of the corn seed?

A lot has been written about the importance of the moistures level in the corn seed. Just wondering whether we can check on the moistures level if it is still not harvested from the corn trees? What I wish to know is there any equipment or method that we can check the quality level of the corn before I decide to harvest the whole of 80 rai. At the moment, we are still relying on the counting of the days test i.e. 125 to 130 days after seeding. What are the other way to determine the suitability of harvesting the corn?

2. What is the rate of plucking corn from the trees?

At the moment, we are given to understand per bag (abt 80kg) of plucking is about 15bt. Is this the normal standard?

3. We are preparing to sell our corn seed to the local co-op? What is the advantage and disadvantage of doing so? Is there any other way?

4. What are typical things after post harvest that need to take notice so as not to be cheated by cunning people? Please highlight.

5. Any other advice that will be useful especially the post harvest of the corn?

I sincerely thank to those who offer kind and sincere advice on the above.

Thank you very much.

Regards,

Lee

[slapout]

With the questions you have presented, terms used, etc I gather you have little experience in farming of corn. The answers to determine moisture have been posted on this forum several times, when to harvest is determined by the maturity of the ears if you are picking them for sale,(which I understood that is your intent) rate for picking (workers day rate in area or by the kilo, same applies), not knowing what co op offered vs market I won't answer, I doubt those cunning people will forwarn you or us of their methods so do your homework. Maybe you can look around for potential buyers for the ears, forage and get prices for your crop via competitive bidding. Lots of luck. Several people who participate on this forum do buy and sell what you have to offer. Give location, info on crop, (days since planting), variety, etc, and you may get info you want.

[massein]

You are pretty much victim to the middle man in your area. This year my wife only got 3 B per kilo, but then later she receive a small gov subsidy. The middle man paid the same price wet or dry. in years pass the tested before determined the price.This save a quiet a bit of labor since it was still raining during harvest.When the stalks turn tan and gray they or ready to harvest, take one ear an roll it strongly in you hand and the kernels will come off the cob. Good Luck

[Gary A]

You can test corn using the old farmer's method. You should be able to twist the corn cob between your hands to shell it. Then you do the bite test, yes, that's right, the bite with your teeth test. If the kernel doesn't crack and feels soft, the corn is too wet.

You can also hit a few kernels with a hammer and they should shatter rather than smash.

[WatersEdge]

This is a mercilessly low market year,

condolences you chose this year to gain initial experience,

but look at this site for a market estimate.

http://www.dit.go.th/diteng/image/hi_4.pdf

massein said his wife received only B3 for corn.

That would have been reasonable for field damp cob corn early in the season.

There is around 30% cob and water shrinkage

between September reasonably dry field damp cob and November dry grain.

The offering price here during harvest was only B2.30 to B2.80

Last year it was B3.20 to B2.90, actually falling as the harvest progressed.

This market report is based on Bangkok,

so you will not see prices this high at your local granary.

Figure that the trucker gets around B0.12 / kg for each 100 km.

Silo price is what you'd expect the local granary to buy at,

for dry yellow corn at 14.5% Moisture.

15% is considered the same as 14.5

There is a grain moisture tester made by Kett,

which costs B26,500, and delivers an exact moisture percent readout in around 5 seconds.

I lost nearly B6,000 on one truckload,

just because my Foreman shipped a load he said was dry,

but which read nearly 20% moisture on the tester.

So B26,500 can be a justifiable expense quickly recovered,

particularly if you cannot trust your granary operator,

or if you are hauling a long distance to the granary.

The Kett tester also is calibrated for many other types of grain.

Silos discount B0.10 per kilogram for each moisture percent above 15%

My experience is only in Mae Sot, Tak province

Based on the cost of drying grain,

they are more than guaranteed a profit for the trouble of buying & handling wet grain.

For your 80 rai of corn,

it may pay you to develop a quick relationship with a Silo operator,

to ask if he'd test a sample of your corn before you bring the whole thing in.

A few bags taken to the granary in advance,

will give you their purchase rate.

The biggest granary in Mae Sot buys anything that comes in the gate,

a tractor trailer or just a few bags.

They take a moisture reading, as well as a visual inspection in a tray.

They are looking for undersize kernels, broken pieces, foreign material, and of course, the ever present weevil (mote)

So there are more valid points for discount than just moisture.

They have four different grades of corn, 1,2,3 & 4, in descending order of quality.

#4 Corn is really bad.

#1 is nearly perfect

The typical Corn coming in is #2.

The granary will tell you if it is too bad for them to buy.

None of this takes sneaky business into account.

This is the standard way that a local healthy market works.

In my market, there are so many granaries,

large, medium, and small

all competing for a limited number of farmers,

that word gets around quickly who the cheats are.

And they simply die off for lack of business.

There are occasional sneaky cheats posing as farmers,

the rascals among us aren't all granary owners.

On the same market report,

Animal Feed Factory Price is what you'd expect to pay if you were buying grain.

As slapout mentioned,

there are a good number of Farm forum members who feed livestock.

It will be to both your benefit to connect with one,

so that he gets a discount and you get a standard good price.

That is, you split the marketing margin between you.

I need around 200 tons this year for my hogs,

so keep me in mind if you are located near Mae Sot.

I'm in a plentiful growing area in a low year,

I grow my own corn for both grain and green forage,

chopped and carried straight from field to barn.

so I'm not likely your best prospect.

I take it that your corn is irrigated,

because at this late date you are long past the season

that would allow proper grain development.

You said you are 125 to 130 days,

which means you planted in mid July...

You probably had to irrigate it in October,

depending on what part of the country.

Rainy season corn is planted mid May to early June

for harvest through September, but very little into October.

If you are prepared to feed livestock,

that's by far the best way to go this year.

That grain will be worth a great deal more

after an animal, fish or bird has converted it to meat.

With goats and hogs, it is not necessary to grind or even shell the corn.

Both can eat whole grain off the cob.

Goats prefer it dry, wasting nothing passing through,

as they chew the cud,

breaking any kernels that escaped the first chewing.

Hogs like it soaked in water one day.

They chew only once, but water softened kernels never come out whole.

Large hogs will tear the husk off the cob.

Goats and small hogs want the bare grain on the cob.

Poultry and Fish need it hammer milled.

Corn is on the high side of fiber to be much good for fish.

Big catfish do OK on it, nothing fantastic.

I pay hand laborers by the day,

supervised to insure they keep working,

so I don't know the standard bag rate

paid by neighbor farms.

Since I harvest everything right down to the ground,

at 90 days

while it is still too wet to store,

my harvest mode is apples vs. oranges.

I don't know if granaries will buy grain still on the cob this late in the season.

Farmers who keep their corn in field cribs to dry a few months

and to wait for the market price to recover from harvest glut

usually have their own sheller.

Granaries do have shellers, but don't expect to operate them at this late date.

Another good reason to feed it to livestock.

Corn stored 3 to 4 months will be completely infested with Weevil,

so you will need to fumigate anything stored longer with aluminum phosphide,

carbon dioxide, or some other toxic or suffocating gas.

I have read that grain in sacks can be turned once every week,

when the weevil are trying to bore into the kernels.

and the disorientation prevents them from eating,

so they starve.

Until I actually experience it,

I will mention it only as something I've read.

Weevil eat the heart of the Corn,

where the majority of the oil and protein is found.

Corn that is weevil damaged is still edible by livestock,

although the nutrition is diminished.

Weevil have a bitter taste,

and the damaged grain smells a little rancid,

but animals will still eat it.

There is so much good grain in the market,

that granaries / feedmills have no motivation to buy weevil damage.

At that stage you are pretty well stuck with it.

[Maizefarmer]

Lee

You are talking about corn for anaimal feed, but corn sold on to merchants is only partly used for anaimal feed - it could be used for anything from cosmetic production, to animal feed, to human food prcoessing, to export ect ect ....... if you are selling it to a co-op or merchant, you have little control on how it is then used. The co-op will purchase on moisture content primarily. They will store it and possibly grade it when it comes to selling on later.

If you are selling to a co-op, just concentrate on getting the best price you can for the moisture content.

125 – 130 days – this is not green corn plant, is it? This 80rai of corn has already started to dry out and become brown hasn’t it?

So we are not talking about whole corn plant – we are talking about 80 rai of corn seed only – just the seed, no plant - Correct/Incorrect?

Can you please take a picture of the corn plant as it is in the field, so I can see just how brown these plants are, and also please take a close up picture of one of the corn cobs and seed, so I can get an idea of just how dry the corn seed is.

If this is about the seed only – you have 2 choices:

a) pick the cobs and sell these with the seed to the bulk merchant/dealer in your area (bad - you will not get a good price)

pick the cob’s and buy yourself a machine to remove the seeds form the cob’s – and then just sell the seed to the merchant.

For 80rai you are going t need a 35hp – 50hp machine to get the seeds off the cob’s. If this is a one off instance and you will not be growing again, then don’t bother, but if you intend to grow again, then yes, it will be worth investing in a second hand machine. You should be able to buy one for somewhere around Baht 30K – 40K.

There are no tricks – you get paid according to the weight of the seed, and the weight of the seed is dependant on the moisture content.

The lower the moisture the better. If these corn/maize plants are already brown (as they almost certainly will be now that they are 125 – 130 days old), take 5 or 10 cobs off plants in different parts of the 80rai (spread out the choice as much as possible over the complete field area), and rub the seeds off by hand. Mix all the recovered seed together, and then separate into 2 different 0,5kg samples

Take both these 0,5kg samples to your local bulk dealer and ask him to test the moisture content.

It takes around 1minute to test – and he will give you a figure I guess which is going to be somewhere between 12% and 17%.

Also ask him how much he is paying per kg at the different moisture percentages.

You want to sell him the seed at as low a moisture figure as possible i.e. if it’s 17% or more, I personally would leave it in the field for another week or 2, but if the figure is around 12% - 15%, I’d start harvesting straight away.

Are you going to be harvesting with Thai labourers by hand, or are you going to be hiring a combine harvester?

By hand is going to take you a couple weeks to harvest 80rai, With a combine, it will take you one day!

You have a 3rd option: do you have space to store all the seed?

If you do have space and don’t need the cash right now, so long as the seed is nice and dry and the moisture content is low, you can store it for a while (months if you want – but it has to be dry other wise is will start to rot) and hope the price goes up some more over this dry season. If you haven’t got space to store it, well then you have no option – you have to sell it as soon as you harvest it.

What will you earn per bag of corn seed?

Depends on the moisture contentp/kg - it can be anything between Baht 300 and Baht 800 – 1000 per sack (50kg's 80kg a sack) – and you are going to have a lot of sacks of corn from 80 rai of land, so you better do some logistics planning otherwise things are going to get out of hand.

If you are employing manual labour you don’t know, you need to ensure you know who has picked what – because you pay your labourers on the basis of how many bags of corn the pick – so each sack/bag needs to be marked. In the early days many years ago I used to give my labourers x amount plastic cable ties each day – each labouer had a different colour plastic cable tie with a certaibn amount of notches cut into the cable tie. As they filled a sack they attached a cable tie. At the end of the day, we counted up the cable ties.

You also need a tractor and trailor to drive up and down the field to collect the sacks 2 or 3 times per day.

If you are going to be using sacks speak to the co-op - they will usualy lend you the sacks on a deposit and then refund you the money when you return the sacks. Don;t buy new sacks - they cost a lot of money.

If you are doing this with a combine harvester, there is no hanging around – time is money and the combine operator will want the bin on the combine emptied immediately – so you will have to have a tractor and trailer standing by. The tractor/trailer driver owner will want to get the corn seed offloaded into your storage or to the merchant immediately, so that it can be weighed and moisture checked – you are then given a slip of paper with the weight and moisture content. That is your receipt.

Once all the corn is harvested, you take all the receipts to the merchant, he adds it all up and gives you the cash or a cheque.

The whole point about this detail above, is that 80rai of corn is a fair amount/weight of corn and you will need to have a plan worked out and ready to deal with the seed as it is harvested. Don’t leave things to the last moment – you are going to have tons and tons of corn seed to deal with - loose control of the logistics and you will loose control of the corn seed - and folk will fast take advantage of you. Their will be disputes regards who picked what and how much, how much went on the trailer to the corn merchant, there will be disputes over the moisture content. 80rai is a lot of corn manage during harvest if you don't have experience - you can't be in 2 places at once, so employ someone who you can trust and who will help you keep an eye on things otherwise the figures are not going to add up.

If you are feeding this corn seed to your own animals you will need to of course have storage, but crush it first beofre feeding, and mix it into a balanced diet of fresh feed and/or silage, don't just feed them buckets full of seed. That will be an expensive waste of corn seed.

Good luck

[CHLEE]

Dear Maizefarmer,

First of all, thank you for giving me such a great advice and sharing some of your expert experiences with me. I am deeply appreciated.

As from the questions that I posed, it can be seen that I have no experience at all in the cultivation of corn. I must admit that I am a first time planter and being that, I feel at times vulnerable and worried over the complexities of the whole corn process. Looking from the advices given by the kind readers here, it makes me feel that I have plenty to learn and now it looks daunting that how complex the corn business can be.

Secondly, I am replying to your questions as follows:

125 -130 days - this is corn planting days. From the look of it, almost all of the tree have became brown. In the beginning, I separated the planting into 3 lots i.e. 40 rai, 20 rai and 20 rai for the ease of management. So, at the moment, my plan is to harvest the 1st 10 rai to gain the experience of harvest and selling to the co-op. I will harvest the remaining when I know better the ways and results of mine 1st 10 rai. Do you think is a good idea to do this? If I decide to harvest in stages, perhaps up until December, would it affect the quality of my corn seed or the corn seed will devalue?

I am not clear about your questions of "So we are not talking about whole corn plant – we are talking about 80 rai of corn seed only – just the seed, no plant - Correct/Incorrect?". What I was given to understand is that, from 80 rai of corn plantation, I can mostly get around (plus/minus) 80 ton of corn seed.

I will go into the plantation tomorrow to take a picture of the corn trees and a close up of the corn cobs and post it here in due time.

As for the choices that you have recommended, currently, I have the intention to sell the corn seed outright to the merchant after I engage a private processor to take out the corn seed from the corn cob. Although I do have intention to plant it for the long term, as I am new in the business, I will want to learn and grow from stage to stage. So your advice here are tremendously helpful to me! I did not plan to buy the machine as I think I am lack of experience to do everything from beginning to the end.

We are arranging to harvest the corn by using the local labourers.

At the moment, we don't have the space to store all the harvested produce. We have no plan for this because 1. we have no experience in storing the produce 2. we do not know when is the best moment to sell the corn seed as we have not see the whole cycle of the corn business yet.

As for your other advices especially on smaller stuffs e.g. plastic cables ties and etc, they are of great importance to me because all these things counts at the end of the day. I would be grateful if more of such advices are forthcoming.

Thank you Maizefarmer for your time and advice.

Hope to learn and hear from you again.

Regards,

Lee

Lee

You are talking about corn for anaimal feed, but corn sold on to merchants is only partly used for anaimal feed - it could be used for anything from cosmetic production, to animal feed, to human food prcoessing, to export ect ect ....... if you are selling it to a co-op or merchant, you have little control on how it is then used. The co-op will purchase on moisture content primarily. They will store it and possibly grade it when it comes to selling on later.

If you are selling to a co-op, just concentrate on getting the best price you can for the moisture content.

125 – 130 days – this is not green corn plant, is it? This 80rai of corn has already started to dry out and become brown hasn’t it?

So we are not talking about whole corn plant – we are talking about 80 rai of corn seed only – just the seed, no plant - Correct/Incorrect?

Can you please take a picture of the corn plant as it is in the field, so I can see just how brown these plants are, and also please take a close up picture of one of the corn cobs and seed, so I can get an idea of just how dry the corn seed is.

If this is about the seed only – you have 2 choices:

a) pick the cobs and sell these with the seed to the bulk merchant/dealer in your area (bad - you will not get a good price)

pick the cob’s and buy yourself a machine to remove the seeds form the cob’s – and then just sell the seed to the merchant.

For 80rai you are going t need a 35hp – 50hp machine to get the seeds off the cob’s. If this is a one off instance and you will not be growing again, then don’t bother, but if you intend to grow again, then yes, it will be worth investing in a second hand machine. You should be able to buy one for somewhere around Baht 30K – 40K.

There are no tricks – you get paid according to the weight of the seed, and the weight of the seed is dependant on the moisture content.

The lower the moisture the better. If these corn/maize plants are already brown (as they almost certainly will be now that they are 125 – 130 days old), take 5 or 10 cobs off plants in different parts of the 80rai (spread out the choice as much as possible over the complete field area), and rub the seeds off by hand. Mix all the recovered seed together, and then separate into 2 different 0,5kg samples

Take both these 0,5kg samples to your local bulk dealer and ask him to test the moisture content.

It takes around 1minute to test – and he will give you a figure I guess which is going to be somewhere between 12% and 17%.

Also ask him how much he is paying per kg at the different moisture percentages.

You want to sell him the seed at as low a moisture figure as possible i.e. if it’s 17% or more, I personally would leave it in the field for another week or 2, but if the figure is around 12% - 15%, I’d start harvesting straight away.

Are you going to be harvesting with Thai labourers by hand, or are you going to be hiring a combine harvester?

By hand is going to take you a couple weeks to harvest 80rai, With a combine, it will take you one day!

You have a 3rd option: do you have space to store all the seed?

If you do have space and don’t need the cash right now, so long as the seed is nice and dry and the moisture content is low, you can store it for a while (months if you want – but it has to be dry other wise is will start to rot) and hope the price goes up some more over this dry season. If you haven’t got space to store it, well then you have no option – you have to sell it as soon as you harvest it.

What will you earn per bag of corn seed?

Depends on the moisture contentp/kg - it can be anything between Baht 300 and Baht 800 – 1000 per sack (50kg's 80kg a sack) – and you are going to have a lot of sacks of corn from 80 rai of land, so you better do some logistics planning otherwise things are going to get out of hand.

If you are employing manual labour you don’t know, you need to ensure you know who has picked what – because you pay your labourers on the basis of how many bags of corn the pick – so each sack/bag needs to be marked. In the early days many years ago I used to give my labourers x amount plastic cable ties each day – each labouer had a different colour plastic cable tie with a certaibn amount of notches cut into the cable tie. As they filled a sack they attached a cable tie. At the end of the day, we counted up the cable ties.

You also need a tractor and trailor to drive up and down the field to collect the sacks 2 or 3 times per day.

If you are going to be using sacks speak to the co-op - they will usualy lend you the sacks on a deposit and then refund you the money when you return the sacks. Don;t buy new sacks - they cost a lot of money.

If you are doing this with a combine harvester, there is no hanging around – time is money and the combine operator will want the bin on the combine emptied immediately – so you will have to have a tractor and trailer standing by. The tractor/trailer driver owner will want to get the corn seed offloaded into your storage or to the merchant immediately, so that it can be weighed and moisture checked – you are then given a slip of paper with the weight and moisture content. That is your receipt.

Once all the corn is harvested, you take all the receipts to the merchant, he adds it all up and gives you the cash or a cheque.

The whole point about this detail above, is that 80rai of corn is a fair amount/weight of corn and you will need to have a plan worked out and ready to deal with the seed as it is harvested. Don’t leave things to the last moment – you are going to have tons and tons of corn seed to deal with - loose control of the logistics and you will loose control of the corn seed - and folk will fast take advantage of you. Their will be disputes regards who picked what and how much, how much went on the trailer to the corn merchant, there will be disputes over the moisture content. 80rai is a lot of corn manage during harvest if you don't have experience - you can't be in 2 places at once, so employ someone who you can trust and who will help you keep an eye on things otherwise the figures are not going to add up.

If you are feeding this corn seed to your own animals you will need to of course have storage, but crush it first beofre feeding, and mix it into a balanced diet of fresh feed and/or silage, don't just feed them buckets full of seed. That will be an expensive waste of corn seed.

Good luck

[CHLEE]

Dear WatersEdge,

Thank you for your really kind advices.

In terms of prices, I was given to understand that the government is currently paying 7.1bt as a minimum price to subsidise the farmers. Although I understand that I will never be paid up to 7.1bt, we do check with the local co-op that they will pay 6.5 bt if our produce meets their standard of specifications. 1. Just want to check with you whether my understanding of this is correct and true? 2. I am confused with your pricing of B2.30 to B2.80 and pricing stated in the Bangkok market report stated in the Department of Trade website. How the mechanism works?

For the price of the truckload B0.12/kg per 100km, are they a standard price across the whole of Thailand?

Dear WatersEdge, I don't understand of your irrigation means. My piece of land are located quite hilly area in Kanchanaburi province and the method and timing of planting are following the local way of planting. At the moment, I don't think they do any irrigation. Do you mind to share with me your method of irrigation means?

Thank you for sharing with me the methods of treating the corn seed for animal feedstock used. At the moment, I have no intention to go into the animal/livestock business but I do have intention to do more trading on the corn feed.

Thanks for you kind advices.

Regards,

Lee

[WatersEdge]

Hi Lee,

In order to get the government subsidy price,

the farmer must sign up with the government before the end of the previous calendar year.

It requires a Thai Citizen ID Card,

so assuming you are a foreigner not married to a Thai,

it does not apply to you.

It has been explained to me that I could participate by proxy,

filling the unused portion of a Thai farmer's allotment,

but there's no way I'm putting myself on a dangerous limb like that.

I would surely become the first known case of concern over corruption.

There are ways to compete squarely by honest creativity.

The very low prices of B2.30 to B2.80 I mentioned,

were for field damp cob corn when harvest was underway in September.

The granaries offer very low prices,

accepting corn they know has a high moisture content,

and which they must shell in their machines.

The price usually rises after harvest is past,

when it is assumed that farmers will shell their own corn,

delivering only loose grain.

Now, in November the granaries are buying only loose grain.

So the only concerns are moisture content and the visual quality inspection.

The Department of Internal Trade market report is based on

offering prices of

Silos buying and

Feedmills selling

in the Bangkok area.

Those prices would be for bulk grain at 14.5% standard moisture

probably in full truckload quantity

The B0.12 / kg per 100 km from Bangkok is a general estimate

on the cost of trucking in 30 metric ton truck and trailer loads.

It's based on haulage costs from a trucker friend.

Thailand has an enormous surplus of heavy trucks,

so many that truckers cannot possibly maintain a full schedule.

But this does not translate into a sharply competitive freight market,

because truckers simply prefer not to work

than to work for a competitive rate.

For instance, my trucker friend owns three trucks,

and runs only 8 loads per truck each month,

24 loads total.

He specializes in long hauls from the North to Bangkok,

but even so he could very easily haul twice that number.

And if he had a backhaul from the Bangkok to the North,

he could handle 4 times his present tonnage.

Logic says that an aggressive transport company

could completely dominate the present situation,

leaving everyone else asleep in their hammocks.

But it hasn't happened yet.

I can email you a photo of my corn sheller machine,

completely portable mounted on a pull trailer,

with a 9 hp Kubota Diesel engine.

This enables me to drive to any location,

shell the corn there with very brief preparation time,

and be gone immediately afterward to the next location.

Looking up Purchase Records from August 2008

the total setup was B56,500

Corn Sheller 20080808 Kubota RT 90 Engine Used ฿24,000 Frame Weld Fab ฿500 Sheller Machine ฿17,500 Trailer ฿14,500 ฿56,500

It can handle 1,000 kg per hour in as dry cob corn,

which amounts to around 865 kg / hour out as loose grain

That is, roughly 145 kg is cob and dust debris.

I don't know the brand name,

but it is bright red color and very common all over Thailand.

These corn sheller machines can be mounted stationary of course,

and can be powered by electric motor.

You don't need the pull trailer or diesel engine.

The cheapest setup possible,

My neighbor sets his sheller on the farmyard dirt,

fastens it in position with wooden stakes,

then powers it with a long belt

driven by his two wheel tractor engine,

with the belt tensioned by ropes pulling the opposite direction on the tractor frame.

They don't worry about maximum power output,

because they intend to work two full days shelling one fieldside barn

of around 8 tons finished grain.

In order to keep the corn sheller machine busy to full capacity,

I use 7 men feeding it and clearing the two product streams away.

Just a few men can theoretically operate the machine,

but they will not keep the machine busy to capacity.

My irrigation is by impact sprinkler,

with water pumped from either the river or from fish ponds

4" PVC Mainline with

2" PVC Sprinkler sets

on 20 meter center

with Sprinklers 10 meters apart on the set

staggered pattern 5 meters to the adjacent sets.

This gives me full coverage on only an 11 meter sprinkler radius,

which requires a little more than 2 bars => 30 psi water pressure at the sprinkler.

You must have more consistent late season rainfall in Kanchanaburi,

because there is no way that a Mid July planting would make a good crop in Mae Sot,

without irrigation to finish developing the grain in October.

As you consider future years,

I'd advise that you process the grain as much as you can,

for value added products

and sell them as near your farm as possible,

to reduce or eliminate transport costs.

There is considerable inefficiency in the Thailand farm commodity system,

leaving considerable niche opportunity for a smart and quiet operator.

Trucks running up and down the highway

carrying bulk goods one way and finished goods back,

large areas of land farmed for small yields

while intensive management could greatly increase output on a fraction of the area farmed.

And of course, the disregard of the dry season as a farm opportunity.

I see a tropical climate and keep the pumps running,

while my neighbors sit and discuss how hot and dry it is out there.

If you reach a modest scale of operation,

so that you are a perceived threat to the grain trading established businesses,

you will somehow be shut down.

There is no tolerance of outsiders who actually become competition.

When you are small you will be winked at.

As you grow, it will cease to be cute...you will be stopped.

This is why I have completely internalized my operation,

with only market ready livestock leaving the farm gate.

Others with pertinent experience are very near by,

and may wish to comment as well.

Do your work well with vigor and satisfaction,

but be aware that Thailand business is simply not fair.

The way things are eventually must be dealt with.

[Maizefarmer]

Don’t worry about the no experience part – I too started many years ago with no experience. Its where we all start, though I have to say that to start off with 80rai …. well, that takes some courage. Yes, you have a lot to learn – you’ll still be learning in 10years time. I’m still learning after 20years – and still make mistakes from time to time.

Yes – from what you have said its clear we are talking about the corn seed – you are harvesting corn seed to sell to the co-op. Okay, that’s now clear – this is not about storage or about animal feed – its corn seed to sell to the co-op.

Yes – if you are harvesting by hand break down the harvesting into sections 20 rai – 20rai – 20rai – 20rai. That will be easier to manage, and the sooner you start the better.

How many labourers do you intend to hire?

80 tons of corn seed ?? – yes, that’s possible but what is the distance between the rows of corn you planted and what is the distance between the plants in each row?

Was this corn planted by hand or with a planter hitched to a tractor?

No, forget trying to play the market over a few weeks or a month or so – you want to harvest that corn and move it immediately – get it down to the co-op straightaway and get your receipt for delievery. End of subject – keep it simple and straight forward.

If you are going to be growing again, go out and buy yourself a corn sheller. Personally I have have doubts about using a little Kubota powered machine that does a 1000kg’s per hour – you’ll be shelling non-stop for days, but if that’s what it has to be then so be it. I’d try get something bigger – harvest 20rai, shell it, sell it, harvest the next 20rai, shell it, sell ……… the quicker you get the job done the less it will cost.

Nothing complicated about a corn sheller – go look at one, they are simple machines

AS for irrigation – well its hilly land (how hilly?) so that’s something that needs to be taken into consideration, but unless you are growing at least 2 crops per year and sometimes 3 crops per year, I wouldn’t bother trying to invest in an irrigation system for 80rai. In theory sounds like a good idea, just wait till you start getting into the detail and have to tackle the practical issues that will have to be deal’t with, like pipe laying, or constant pipe moving, sprinkler setup, and moving the sprinklers, the cost of the labour moving the irrigation hardware every few days, the pump and motor, the fcost of fuel to run the motor …… blah blah, blah blah, and on and on it goes. Nope, stay away from irrigation for the time been – you’ve got enough on your hands for the moment.

By the way – do you know what it cost you t plant and cultivate this 80 rai i.e. have you kept a record of what the seed cost, what the fertiliser cost, what you paid in labour to plant the corn seed ect ect …… you kept record of all these costs to date?

[CHLEE]

Dear Maizefarmer,

Thanks again for your advice, encouragement and confidence booster.

I have just purchased a grain moisture tester yesterday and we tested against one of our sample brought back from the farm. The result showed that it is 19%. So, I guess we still need some time for them to dry further. May I ask you, if I wait until the 2nd week of December to harvest, would there be any drop in the quality of the corn? Any side or negative effect?

At the moment, due to the labourer's shortage in the village, we managed to get 10 workers only.

May I seek another advice from you? As you advised that it is best to separate 20-20-20-20 rai for harvest and since we only have 10 workers, in our estimation, we think we require 2 to 3 days to harvest every 20 rai. In view of that, we would require about 500 gunni sacks for the storage of the corn cobs. In your view

1. Do you think it is best idea to keep every corn cobs in the sacks until the day (I will be there) when it will be processed using the machine or it is better for the worker release to a designated area after plucking each day? My concerns are that there will be theft of the corn, uncountable volume of the corn plucked by worker so as to pay them the right salary, and no appropriate way to documents and record the actual harvested volume. For your kind information, as the farm is located a distance away from my office, it is simply not possible for me to be there when the worker is plucking.

2. If it is best idea to keep in the sacks until the processing day, then a lot of gunni sacks would be required. But if this is the better way, so be it than to loose all the corns, right?

All our corns were planted using a planter hitched to a tractor.

As for the corn sheller, it has been a great advice from you and WatersEdge. I think at the moment, as I have no experience at all, I will outsource this to a third party. Learned the process and by next planting, I will be able to improve by getting our own corn sheller. At that moment, I would need your advice on the type of corn sheller to be bought. Hope you don't mind then

In terms of the sprinkle irrigation system, currently I do understand the headache and the amount of capital required for the set up. We have been using our sprinkle system to plant bird eye chili and beans for years. We also have tried to use the same for the corn plantation. However, the return from the corn does not justify for us to invest the sprinkle system in the corn. At the moment, we will follow the local tradition of planting the corn 2 times a year. The next planting will be in April and harvest between July to August. Then we will plant again in August 1010. Just wonder whether do I have to do anything to the land to make sure that the land is fertile enough for me to keep planting 2 times a year? Would the yield of the 2nd planting drop tremendously?

We do keep records all our cost and processes from the 1st day to now. It will be easier for us to track our progress, kept within the budget and target, and to improve our planting system and cost from time to time.

From you and WatersEdge remarks, I sense that corn plantation is a worthwhile and interesting business to be in. There are plenty of things to learn and I hope to improve from times to times. Hope you don't mind to share your invaluable experience.

Thank you once again.

Regards,

Lee

Edited November 18, 2009 by CHLEE

[CHLEE]

Dear WatersEdge,

First of all, it is interesting to find that Maizefarmer and yourself are so insightful in the corn production business. You all are a great bunch. It does really makes things easier and less lonely for me to go into this business after knowing both of you guys! Cheers!

For the Gov subsidy, I have secured some Thais to get this done for me. To create a win-win solution for the locals, I do pay them a great deal of incentives. Business is no longer fun if only one party wins!

Your in depth explanation of the Bangkok selling price and the price I suggested are fully well understood. Thank you.

Just out of curiosity, is there anyone buy the corn fully unprocessed i.e. field damp cob and why farmer want to sell that since the price is so bad?

There are 2 things to consider when coming to determine the quality of the corn seed i.e. 1. moisture contents and 2. visual inspection. For the moisture content, I got a grain moisture detector with me, so it should not be a problem. What about visual inspection for bad kernels, side materials and others, how can I cover that? How does the granaries / local co-op test and decide on the level of these matter? I was being told that for every 20 ton of corn seed, there will be approximate of 1 ton of bad qualities corn seed, is that true?

Many people has advise me to separate out the good ones from the bad ones and sell both at different prices. How can I do that? Is there a machine that I can use to separate the 2 or this is largely done by manually?

Please do kindly email me a picture of your corn machine. My e-mail address is [email protected] and msn: [email protected].

I appreciated the fact that you share some of your experience of the corn sheller and irrigation with me. At the moment, I am still a new bird in the corn business, so I think I have no choice but to keep things rather simple and straight forward.

I do agree with you that there are many rooms to explore in terms of commodity trading in Thailand. And I do agree with you that the established family and local company here are not an easy thing to deal with. But I am sure, if there is a will, there is a way. They have also gone through phases like these before. Just perhaps need to find the niche.

Great to exchange ideas with you. Hope more will come !

Regards,

Lee

[Maizefarmer]

I’m suprized the moisture percentage is that high (19%) – did you pick samples from different parts of the field. You will find that the corn on top of the hill should be about 2% drier than the corn lower down. 19% after 130days is quite high – hey, where are these pictures?

10 workers 20rai – willl take 3 - 4 days to pick 20rai - depends how motivated your workers are.

How many sacks required? – don’t know – if you take those pictures, then I’ll be in a better position to express an opinion (can see then how many cob’s per plant, can see average size of cobs, can see then the average height of the corn plants ect ect …..).

Where to keep the cob’s? – asked you about storage and you said you had none. You need to lock the sacks up somewhere – if you leave them in the field there is a chance they will be stolen overnight. If they have to stay in the field, fine collect them together in 1 pile and employ someone to act as security guard overnight. Yes, keeping them in the sacks for a few days to as long as a week or so after been picked is no problem – quality won’t suffer if the moisture is below 16%. At 19% mmmmmm …. bit risky. That’s high - mold can start to grow - I’d leave them in the field to come down at least another 2% before picking and putting into sacks.

What type of moisture meter did you purchase – name? Possibility of a picture?

I think you need to check this moisture figure again – pick cobs from different parts of the field spread out as much as possible, high up and low down – about 3 - 5 kg’s – mix it all together and take 3 more moisture tests.

While about it check the cob’s for mold and for insect damage – if there is evidence of insect damage and/or mold, you need to start picking and you need to shell and then spread the seed out on a tarpaulin somewhere and get the moisture percentage down quick – it will take 2 – 3 days to get it down to below 16% - then put the seed into sacks. If the co-op guy sees insects in the corn or mold growing on it he may drop his offer.

I think you guys are going to run into problems here, if you still have 19% and there is evidence of mold and/or insect damage.

If you are planting 80rai of corn and are not keeping a record of costs, and then hoping you make a profit, how will you know if you have made a profit, or a loss? How much was spent ploughing the field to prepeare for planting, what did the tractor charge to plant, how much fertiliser per rai, what did the seed cost, what are going to have to pay to harvest the corn ... Yes – you need to keep a record of costs. What are your total acosts todate? - I'd guess they are somewhere between Baht 100K - 160K(?).

How do you maintain soil quality?

Well, you will need to, otherwise each time you plant you are going to get less and less corn seed, and you will start to make less and less money, or loose more and more money.

Your big costs are corn seed and fertiliser (and the tractor for planting) – but you need to know how much fertiliser to use and to know that you should know what type of corn hybrid was planted (what type did you plant?) to know what type of fertilser to use and whenn to apply it, you need to know the row and plant spacing to calculate this (what were the row and plant spacings?), you need to know the soil type. It sounds like you have not used fertiliser this first time round (other than perhaps when planting(?)).

If this is how things are at the moment, you have a fair amount of work to do.

[CHLEE]

Dear Maizefarmer,

I enclosed the picture of the corn, corn seed and grain moisture meter for your viewing.

There is something weird happening lately. The other day, I told you that when we check the corn seen using the grain moisture meter, it stated it was 19%. However, we re-check on the same sample again today, it showed that it is 13.8%.

We know that we only pick one sample to check on the moisture for the whole corn plantation may definitely not reliable and inaccurate. So, we will go into the farm in 2 days time to resample all the corn in the 20-20-20-20 rai.

As it showed that it is 13.8%, shocked, we have now decided to proceed with the plan of plucking the selected 1st 10 rai (since it is the 1st area we 1st planted) even we have not received the final results of the moisture level at this moment. This is due to the fact that I am a frequent traveler and timing is too tight for me change to alternate date. I would want to see what is the result and making further plans for the remaining of the farm.

In 2 days time, I will take all the pictures as you suggested to post it here and will also keep in the record for our future reference.

Our initiate investment was around 160k to 180k. This is our 1st trial. We believe it will be much lower in our next planting.

At the moment, we are trying to makes plan to proceed with 1st plucking and as you rightly said, we have a fair bit of work to do. And suddenly things seem a bit out of hands...sigh..

Regards,

Lee

I’m suprized the moisture percentage is that high (19%) – did you pick samples from different parts of the field. You will find that the corn on top of the hill should be about 2% drier than the corn lower down. 19% after 130days is quite high – hey, where are these pictures?

10 workers 20rai – willl take 3 - 4 days to pick 20rai - depends how motivated your workers are.

How many sacks required? – don’t know – if you take those pictures, then I’ll be in a better position to express an opinion (can see then how many cob’s per plant, can see average size of cobs, can see then the average height of the corn plants ect ect …..).

Where to keep the cob’s? – asked you about storage and you said you had none. You need to lock the sacks up somewhere – if you leave them in the field there is a chance they will be stolen overnight. If they have to stay in the field, fine collect them together in 1 pile and employ someone to act as security guard overnight. Yes, keeping them in the sacks for a few days to as long as a week or so after been picked is no problem – quality won’t suffer if the moisture is below 16%. At 19% mmmmmm …. bit risky. That’s high - mold can start to grow - I’d leave them in the field to come down at least another 2% before picking and putting into sacks.

What type of moisture meter did you purchase – name? Possibility of a picture?

I think you need to check this moisture figure again – pick cobs from different parts of the field spread out as much as possible, high up and low down – about 3 - 5 kg’s – mix it all together and take 3 more moisture tests.

While about it check the cob’s for mold and for insect damage – if there is evidence of insect damage and/or mold, you need to start picking and you need to shell and then spread the seed out on a tarpaulin somewhere and get the moisture percentage down quick – it will take 2 – 3 days to get it down to below 16% - then put the seed into sacks. If the co-op guy sees insects in the corn or mold growing on it he may drop his offer.

I think you guys are going to run into problems here, if you still have 19% and there is evidence of mold and/or insect damage.

If you are planting 80rai of corn and are not keeping a record of costs, and then hoping you make a profit, how will you know if you have made a profit, or a loss? How much was spent ploughing the field to prepeare for planting, what did the tractor charge to plant, how much fertiliser per rai, what did the seed cost, what are going to have to pay to harvest the corn ... Yes – you need to keep a record of costs. What are your total acosts todate? - I'd guess they are somewhere between Baht 100K - 160K(?).

How do you maintain soil quality?

Well, you will need to, otherwise each time you plant you are going to get less and less corn seed, and you will start to make less and less money, or loose more and more money.

Your big costs are corn seed and fertiliser (and the tractor for planting) – but you need to know how much fertiliser to use and to know that you should know what type of corn hybrid was planted (what type did you plant?) to know what type of fertilser to use and whenn to apply it, you need to know the row and plant spacing to calculate this (what were the row and plant spacings?), you need to know the soil type. It sounds like you have not used fertiliser this first time round (other than perhaps when planting(?)).

If this is how things are at the moment, you have a fair amount of work to do.

Edited November 19, 2009 by CHLEE

[Maizefarmer]

Well well ……. there we go – just as I suspected. Sorry for patting myself on the back but I always worry a bit when advising someone to do this or that, or telling someone this or that when it comes to crop handling, bearing in mind the impact it could have on income.

From the pictures you have posted up it’s my estimation that you are going to yield somewhere around 750 – 850kg per rai max – your net yield is going to be somewhere around 55 – 60 ton max, and quite possibly as low as 48 – 50ton for the 80rai.

What to do now?

Start getting that corn off the land quick quick and into sack’s….

At 13,8% - yes, you can store in sacks for a few weeks quite safely with no degredation in quality – if you need to. It’s a pity you can’t polish the maize – if you were geared up for this, you’d be able to store in sacks for months. Is it worth polishing now, nope, this will just add further complications to the logistics – harvest, shell, pack and sell as quick as you can now.

Replanting(?) – do not use any of the seed you have now harvested for replanting the next crop. You will get a poor harvest.

If you are going to replant, closer to the time we can discuss (if you wish) issues regards the soil type, soil preparation i.e. how to plough, when to plough, what depth to plough to, how long to leave the land standing before you cross cut (this is also about controlling weed growth and weed density), what seed to use, planting depth, plant spacing, row spacing, fertiliser type & regime (when to apply and how much to apply per rai), what pesticide to use, how much to apply, when to apply …… and a whole bunch of other points which will get your net yield up next time.

For the time been just concentrate on harvesting, shelling and selling on as quick as you can.

As you going to make a profit this time round? Yer, I think you are – but it’s not going to be as much as it could have been. In summary, for a first time effort I actually think you’ve done rather well.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[CHLEE]

Dear Maizefarmer,

I am a bit curious. How can the same tester have different results within the days of 3 or 4? Is it something wrong to the method that we tested? Could the machine not reliable as the variation is indeed quite big.

Yes, we are proceeding to start processing the corn field straight away. May I ask for your suggestion: I am in a bit of rush schedule, and all this plucking, shelling , and selling to the local co-op needs my personal presence to be there to avoid cheats and frauds. In your experience, is there any way or method that I can use to ensure all or part of these can be done without my presence? I know is hard but I still want to ask this silly question. Just in case, there are some answer somewhere.

Yes, for the replanting part, I may need to come back to trouble with you again. Learning new things are always hard but you indeed a very great help. Sincerely, I thank you for your generosity and kindness in guiding me through this winding process.

Thanks again.

Well well ……. there we go – just as I suspected. Sorry for patting myself on the back but I always worry a bit when advising someone to do this or that, or telling someone this or that when it comes to crop handling, bearing in mind the impact it could have on income.

From the pictures you have posted up it’s my estimation that you are going to yield somewhere around 750 – 850kg per rai max – your net yield is going to be somewhere around 55 – 60 ton max, and quite possibly as low as 48 – 50ton for the 80rai.

What to do now?

Start getting that corn off the land quick quick and into sack’s….

At 13,8% - yes, you can store in sacks for a few weeks quite safely with no degredation in quality – if you need to. It’s a pity you can’t polish the maize – if you were geared up for this, you’d be able to store in sacks for months. Is it worth polishing now, nope, this will just add further complications to the logistics – harvest, shell, pack and sell as quick as you can now.

Replanting(?) – do not use any of the seed you have now harvested for replanting the next crop. You will get a poor harvest.

If you are going to replant, closer to the time we can discuss (if you wish) issues regards the soil type, soil preparation i.e. how to plough, when to plough, what depth to plough to, how long to leave the land standing before you cross cut (this is also about controlling weed growth and weed density), what seed to use, planting depth, plant spacing, row spacing, fertiliser type & regime (when to apply and how much to apply per rai), what pesticide to use, how much to apply, when to apply …… and a whole bunch of other points which will get your net yield up next time.

For the time been just concentrate on harvesting, shelling and selling on as quick as you can.

As you going to make a profit this time round? Yer, I think you are – but it’s not going to be as much as it could have been. In summary, for a first time effort I actually think you’ve done rather well.

[Maizefarmer]

Nope – nothing wrong with the machine you have – I’ve used one on occasion in the past and I have found them to be plenty good enough, but new machines – depending on how it was stored may have excessive moisture in it from humidity when first used. You should do half a dozen to a dozen dry runs through the machine and compare it with a known machine using a sample of corn which has been checked in a known moisture tester.

You should also take your moister meter down to the co-op and check half a dozen samples that have first been checked with the Co-Op moisture meter – compare the Co-Op’s meter readings with your moisture meter readings – using the same samples in both testers.

The above will give you a good idea of both how the meter is working, and how you can expect it to compare with the Co-Op’s readings.

DON’T SHARE YOUR MOISTURE METER READINGS WITH THE CO-OP – KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF AND GET YOU TRUSTED COLLEGUE/WORKMAN TO PHONE YOU WITH THE CO-OP READINGS EACH TIME A DELIVERY IS MADE

You need to take corn cob’s from different part s of the field – as a rule a pick approx 2kg’s or 4 – 5 corn cob’s for seed per 10 rai, from at least 4 different areas (more or less equi spaced) – and then mix the whole 8 – 10kg’s together and separate into about 5 different piles – then test each lot separately, add the totals together and divide by the number of tests undertaken – this will give you a fairly accurate average.

Nope – there’s no short cut: check the weight and moisture before you send it to the co-op. Send it with someone who you trust and get them to phone you with the C-Op weight and moisture readings on delivery – if you can’t sort the issue out on the phone with the co-op, get your trusted worker/family member to take it back to your farm (or where-ever you are keeping it), and keep it all there until you have some time yourself to take it back to the co-op. You are not under pressure to sell as soon as it is picked – you can put it a side for a few days can’t you.

Get prices for weight and moisture from the co-op, before you start delivering – so you know what to expect.

[CHLEE]

Dear Maizefarmer,

Your advice is clearly noted.

In your previous message, you said that I may only achieve between 48-60 ton this time around. May I know what I have not done correctly this time so as not to repeat the same in my next planting? Is it that I have waited for far too long to harvest? If I have harvested earlier, I would perhaps achieve 1 ton per rai? If yes, how much earlier do I should have to start harvesting the crops? Or looking from the corn seed, you have other reasons to believe that the way I planted was wrong?

Another simple question is that, as I told you that I have 80 rai of planting corn, this is only an estimation. In actual fact, I have a total of 200 rai. The remaining of the land is to plant bird eye's chili. I have some very long and unsettling problems. The first problem, the local way of doing the land measurement is that they don't measure in rectangle or square boxes style. Very traditionally, they use a rope to roughly estimate the size of my plantation even it is a triangular shape. As the proper way to go forward, I don't agree with this kind of measurement. It is very difficult to partition and makes plan to plant the crops.

The second problem is, after the land being measured, when we request outsiders to tractor our field, they will asked us for payment of 40 rai. But when we harvest the land, our farm manager told us that the yield should based only 20 rai. It is a great confusion and madness. We have been having this problem for far too long and I have tried many attempts to resolve this issue once and for all. I need the land to be re-measured and marked as per every 20 rai so as to calculate the yield of per rai for whatever I planted. No one in the village except the village head willing to do the re-measurement ad marking for us. We are at his mercy because he has an attitude problem. Are there any local authorities we can go to for them to do this officially on our behalf? Is there any other way to deal with this issue?

Your advice shall be appreciated.

Regards,

Lee

Nope – nothing wrong with the machine you have – I’ve used one on occasion in the past and I have found them to be plenty good enough, but new machines – depending on how it was stored may have excessive moisture in it from humidity when first used. You should do half a dozen to a dozen dry runs through the machine and compare it with a known machine using a sample of corn which has been checked in a known moisture tester.

You should also take your moister meter down to the co-op and check half a dozen samples that have first been checked with the Co-Op moisture meter – compare the Co-Op’s meter readings with your moisture meter readings – using the same samples in both testers.

The above will give you a good idea of both how the meter is working, and how you can expect it to compare with the Co-Op’s readings.

DON’T SHARE YOUR MOISTURE METER READINGS WITH THE CO-OP – KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF AND GET YOU TRUSTED COLLEGUE/WORKMAN TO PHONE YOU WITH THE CO-OP READINGS EACH TIME A DELIVERY IS MADE

You need to take corn cob’s from different part s of the field – as a rule a pick approx 2kg’s or 4 – 5 corn cob’s for seed per 10 rai, from at least 4 different areas (more or less equi spaced) – and then mix the whole 8 – 10kg’s together and separate into about 5 different piles – then test each lot separately, add the totals together and divide by the number of tests undertaken – this will give you a fairly accurate average.

Nope – there’s no short cut: check the weight and moisture before you send it to the co-op. Send it with someone who you trust and get them to phone you with the C-Op weight and moisture readings on delivery – if you can’t sort the issue out on the phone with the co-op, get your trusted worker/family member to take it back to your farm (or where-ever you are keeping it), and keep it all there until you have some time yourself to take it back to the co-op. You are not under pressure to sell as soon as it is picked – you can put it a side for a few days can’t you.

Get prices for weight and moisture from the co-op, before you start delivering – so you know what to expect.

Edited November 20, 2009 by CHLEE

[Gary A]

Many Garmin brand handheld GPS units will quickly calculate area. They are considered accurate to less than 10 percent error. They are not suitable for professional work, but good enough for general non official use.

[Maizefarmer]

It’s a calculation off the top of my head based on the size of the corn cob and seed size in the photographs (yes – I can see the cob is broken) – and many years of growing over a 1000 rai every year. That’s all it’s based on – nothing more scientific than that, and I could be very wrong, because I don’t know how many cob’s you have on each plant (2 max – one big and one smaller one(?)) and what the plant spacing was when planted. I’m guessing around 50cm – 70cm between rows and 25cm – 35cm between plants in each row (??) I asked you twice ofr the above info and got no answer, so I started guessing (!!)

You've done nothing wrong - In fact, as I said in an earlier posting, I think you've done rather well for a first time effort. Things will only be better next time round - the learning curve is very steep, and very fast.

Are there no papers for this land? If there are, what type of papers i.e. what type of titleship does the land have?

GaryA's idea is a good one – buy yourself a cheap GPS – divide the total area into a number of known straight line shapes as close to square as you can. Take your GPS measurements plot them out on a piece of A3 paper, and convert from Longitude/Latitude readers to distance in meters. Remember longitude and Latitude distances change as you move away from the equator, so you may have to do some trig math work. Once you have your distances, do your area calculations, in acres or hectares (hectares are better if you are working in meters), and then multiply appropriately to get the number of rai.

How accurate (?) - depends on the error in the 10Mhz signal your GPS generates, and how good/bad the weather is when you take the GPS reading (poor weather can attentuate/slow down and/or speed up the timing reference from the satellites) but I'd go along with the +/- 10% figure as a max in terms of caluclated area (not distance) and typicaly around +/-3% rms - the more readings you take (i.e. the more you break the total area up into smaller areas to get straight lines and as close to square as possible the greater your final error can be)

Have fun!

Edited November 20, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[Gary A]

I had an eTrex legend and I think it was much closer than ten percent. You enter the coordinates with the push of a button. It will calculate the area automatically. I entered coordinates about every fifty meters walking in as straight a line as possible.

Walk around following the same route in reverse and re-enter the coordinates. You will be amazed how close it repeats.

[slapout]

Gary has the best solution, but will require the op or someone familiar with the gps device to be on hand. They also have hand held measuring wheels available here which work good for squares, rectangles, triangle, etc of land, if you can get a good diagram with measurements inserted. A measuring chain is another option for the measuring wheel with the same limitations. Put up you own markers for planting reference and you will not have to depend on the village head. Plot a map of your land and tell the foreman where you want markers for whatever size plots you desire.

One other note on the moisture tester, it should have a null/zero procedure to eliminate the humidity inside the tester prior to measuring the grain for real moisture content.

[CHLEE]

Dear Gary A,

Thank you for your kind posting.

May I check with you where can I get one of the Garmin or eTrex GPS in Bangkok as I am not a local here. Do you have a picture of the device and what is the approximate cost to the device?

Sorry for being nerdy on the tech side. Thanks for advising anyway.

Regards,

Lee

I had an eTrex legend and I think it was much closer than ten percent. You enter the coordinates with the push of a button. It will calculate the area automatically. I entered coordinates about every fifty meters walking in as straight a line as possible.

Walk around following the same route in reverse and re-enter the coordinates. You will be amazed how close it repeats.

[CHLEE]

Dear Maizefarmer,

For the plant spacing, please allow the understanding that I have outsource the work to an appointed corn manager then. He was suppose to complete the whole process while our people here are suppose to learn the process as we go. However, due to some family reasons, he has to return to his village and here we are, to complete what we 1st started out to do. So please accept my apology for not be able to give the figures.

Yes, in terms of the land we do have some papers though not the official ones. What we have is agreements which has been witnessed by the local head village, police and forest department heads. At the moment, we are not too worry over the ownership issue. And yes, we will proceed to straighten this out as times allow.

I am a bit curious again

In your previous message, you say something about polishing. How this works and what should be the right equipment set up? How it can add value to my selling price? Is it complicated? The effort is worth so much more than non polish?

Does anyone plant bird eye chili here too I wonder ?

Hope to hear from the master soon!

Regards,

Lee

It’s a calculation off the top of my head based on the size of the corn cob and seed size in the photographs (yes – I can see the cob is broken) – and many years of growing over a 1000 rai every year. That’s all it’s based on – nothing more scientific than that, and I could be very wrong, because I don’t know how many cob’s you have on each plant (2 max – one big and one smaller one(?)) and what the plant spacing was when planted. I’m guessing around 50cm – 70cm between rows and 25cm – 35cm between plants in each row (??) I asked you twice ofr the above info and got no answer, so I started guessing (!!)

You've done nothing wrong - In fact, as I said in an earlier posting, I think you've done rather well for a first time effort. Things will only be better next time round - the learning curve is very steep, and very fast.

Are there no papers for this land? If there are, what type of papers i.e. what type of titleship does the land have?

GaryA's idea is a good one – buy yourself a cheap GPS – divide the total area into a number of known straight line shapes as close to square as you can. Take your GPS measurements plot them out on a piece of A3 paper, and convert from Longitude/Latitude readers to distance in meters. Remember longitude and Latitude distances change as you move away from the equator, so you may have to do some trig math work. Once you have your distances, do your area calculations, in acres or hectares (hectares are better if you are working in meters), and then multiply appropriately to get the number of rai.

How accurate (?) - depends on the error in the 10Mhz signal your GPS generates, and how good/bad the weather is when you take the GPS reading (poor weather can attentuate/slow down and/or speed up the timing reference from the satellites) but I'd go along with the +/- 10% figure as a max in terms of caluclated area (not distance) and typicaly around +/-3% rms - the more readings you take (i.e. the more you break the total area up into smaller areas to get straight lines and as close to square as possible the greater your final error can be)

Have fun!

[farmerjo]

I have a garmin hand held gps,

Check if you have a mitr phol sugar factory around,they sell gps,s for about 14000 baht for memory.

[Gary A]

Here are two Thai links. The prices here in Thailand are quite a bit more expensive than in most other countries. The advantage to buying here is that most units will have the Thai map already installed. A caution is that not all units are capable of area measurement. If you buy one, check to see that it is capable.

http://www.gadgetrend.com/gps_nav.php

http://www.eaglegps.co.th/

[Maizefarmer]

Aaaah ….. now it all makes sense – this maize planting was contracted, and things haven’t gone quite as was hoped for with the contract planter - which explains the lack of knowledge why you are so cautious dealing with others beyond the farmgate.

The question about the land docs was not about ownership - from some docs you can get detail to determine land size - that was why I was asking. Nothing to do with ownership.

Polishing – it’s a word for cleaning corn seed, getting all the dust and other loose organic material off the seed so its nice and clean. Go look at a sack of shelled corn seed – it will contain dust, bits of broken cob and or plant and other organic material – it’s “dirty”. Polishing removes all the dirt and loose organic material – but if you are selling to the Co-Op, no its not going to make much difference as they will sell it to processors who, depending on what they intend to do with it will polish it and clean it as they need to, and if they don’t need to, then they won’t.

Polishing will be to your benefit if you are going to be wholesaling to a food processor directly, and have something like 100 - 500 tons – now it becomes worth polishing and grading – otherwise don’t bother

Polished commands a higher price (if sold to food processors) and can be stored for longer (like most crops that are clean – they last longer in storage if they are clean) – so you can keep the current harvested, plant a again, harvest the next crop, shell it clean/polish it and you’ll now have well over a hundred ton’s – then you got to go do your research in the food processing industry in Thailand and find out who wants corn/maize seed, and what grade they want.

Then a company rep from the food company comes to see you, he’ll inspect your storage facilities, he’ll inspect your processing equipment, and if still interested he’ll ask you to get it certified, you will then have to employ SGS or some other company to come in a issue a certificate which could cover a whole bunch of quality related parameters (and is not cheap to get – it runs into the Baht 1000’s).

Then there are the transport/delivery logistics that have to be worked out (most food processors want raw ingredients on a “just in time” basis) – more costs.

From farming, you are now trading – you will need staff, you will need an office, you will need to satisfy health & safety reg's, you will have paperwork like you have never seen before to do - you will have introduced a whole bunch of additional procedures & costs - it's a fulltime job, and quite frankly as you didn’t personally have the time to get the nitty gritty detail and low down regards all the basic questions you have asked to date, let alone plant the corn yourself, unless you are dealing with 100’s of tons at the very least and better if its 1000’s, my advice is that you are best off to just stick to farming.

Learn to cultivate, what type to cultivate, what fertiliser to use and when, how to prep the field ect ect etc … learn to farm and maximise the yields, then worry about all the extra stuff.

Farming is a hands on 24/7/365 (and a ¼!) occupation

I’d still be very interested to see some photos of the field(s) where this corn has been grown – can you post up some pictures Lee?

Birds Eye chilli on the scale you are talking about – that is very big and unlike dealing with corn where/when you can always offload the whole lot in bulk to a Co-Op, I’d make sure I had a buyer lined up and a quality/grade agreed on with that buyer before hand, to ensure you get a decent price. Processing and storing chilli – especially bulk dried chilli – requires carefully controlled conditions. I’m not the man to ask about chilli – my experience extends to growing a few rai on occasion in the past on an experimental basis, and it wasn’t my best farming day, so I am going to leave any advice to others to offer you.