Bangkok Expressway Easy Pass Fails Test, Put On Hold

[dunque]

Remember, this is the same country that feels its ready to build a nuclear reactor....

Any Americans on ? Three Mile Island anyone ? It is soooo easy to criticise others, but try not to make it such a knee jerk one ok ?

[p_brownstone]

Anyone who believes that new Systems can be introduced “trouble free” in the West should look at the various Software Systems for the NHS, the Prison and Probation Services, the Armed Forces (the list goes on and on) in the UK – literally billions of GBP over budget, years late in implementation and still no definite Start-up date in sight.

Also – admittedly off-topic – I am amazed at the (at least 2) individuals who have Posted on this thread who have been in Thailand for 30 years but seem to delight in belittling, almost despising, all things Thai. How can you send 30 years in a Country with these emotions and attitudes roiling inside you? If I felt like that about a place I was living, I would have left long ago.

Patrick

[khaowong1]

Instead of charging prepaid users, they should of had beta users for a period of 4 - 6 weeks to test the systems, but typical, they wanted money, but no return unless they re-enable the system.

They should of got a proper programmer in me, with over 20 years experience. Instead they probably been down kow san lane and hired a cheap one at 500 baht.

I doubt they went that far... after all, the head supervisor has a nephew that has a game boy, and dog gone it, he's pretty good with it... so for a 100 baht, viola... Easy Pass...

[khaowong1]

Wow... what a bunch of rants... c'mon people, are any of us who have lived here for some time really surprised this new software didn't work? Has everyone one forgot all the problems at our "pearl of the orient" new airport?

[laocowboy2]

Instead of charging prepaid users, they should of had beta users for a period of 4 - 6 weeks to test the systems, but typical, they wanted money, but no return unless they re-enable the system.

They should of got a proper programmer in me, with over 20 years experience. Instead they probably been down kow san lane and hired a cheap one at 500 baht.

T.I.T. Third world country... NAFC...

Bit like the baggage handling cock up that f***ed up Heathrow a couple of years back, eh ? Hang on a sec . . . Britain's first world, isn't it ?

Not for much longer the way things are going!

[thaihome]

People are much more interested in their stupid TIT comments then doing a simple Google search to discover was designed and installed under the supervison of the Austrian company Kapsch TrafficCom.

What the fuc_k is the matter with you people.

You are much stupider then the any Thai that you take every occasion to deride in order to feed your naïve and childish superiority complexes.

TH

[mortenaa]

People are much more interested in their stupid TIT comments then doing a simple Google search to discover was designed and installed under the supervison of the Austrian company Kapsch TrafficCom.

What the fuc_k is the matter with you people.

You are much stupider then the any Thai that you take every occasion to deride in order to feed your naïve and childish superiority complexes.

TH

I agree with you.

Kapsch TrafficCom is just another sub-supplier along with Q-Free ASA (Norway), Ch. Karnchang Public Company Ltd. and Loxley Public Company Ltd., (CKLX), which is responsible for the total project. The end customer is Expressway Thailand Authority (ETA), a state-owned company reporting to Ministry of Transportation.

[ronrat]

The Melbourne MYKI system for public transport is years over due and 500 million (read 15000 million baht) over cost. All they needed do was copy the Singapore one as well. The idea is that contractors and transport Ministers and bureaucrats go on fact finding tours to HK and Sinapoer, London, New York. Find no facts and reinvent the wheel The politicians and public servants get generous tax payer funded redundancies then go and work for the winning bidder. And cock it up. The Thais are amateurs.

[eTiMaGo]

Having worked for a number of years in major IT and infrastructure projects in Thailand and elsewhere is SE Asia I have dealt with engineers from many nationalities such as Thai, Indian, Philippino and Chinese as well as many from western countries

From experience I can state that there are some very good Thai engineers, (and some very poor ones) just like anywhere else.

However they are disadvantaged by poor English, poor management and when working locally reduced budget caused by kickbacks. Often the product selected is not the best one, but the one that pays the best commission Many times this is a smaller company trying to make a name in the region, without sufficient experience.

It should also be noted that most prestigious projects open when the politicians say it will no matter how ready or otherwise the engineers say they are. The time allocated for proper testing is nearly always cut short, because it starts late due to delays in installation, but still always has to finish when the politicians say so. You would be surprised at the number prestigious projects that open without fully tested and functional systems.

On my last project in the ME some software engineers from Thailand were employed by a major international company because of experience they gained at Suvarnabhumi (and of course price) and it was generally agreed that they were far superior to the ones found locally.

So lets stop knocking Thai engineers and help them improve by impating our experience.

To one other poster I would say, that a certificate in programming does not make you a good programmer. Anybody can learn a computer language, but the ability to understand the issues and find and implement the correct solution comes from practice and experience. Once the solution is clearly identified then it is time to pass it on to a code monkey with the fancy ceritificate and no experince to implement.

Finally it is often not the software that is at fault, but poor operator training or unforeseen external events so without all the facts lets not make hast judgements on the ability or otherwise of our hosts.

Thank you, your answer hits the nail on the head in regards to outside influences on large projects like these, and programming skill in general.

I <3 Thailand, warts and all

[thaihome]

Everything was working fine until - human interference - means the toll collectors can't skim a little here and there - same as the Police who ran the electronics traffic lights systems in 1997. All was fine when sinked up - flow became normal and then - no earn for the brown shirts - so they started flicking buttons and the system was scrapped.

The only reason there are traffic jambs on expressways is the toll booth - and it will continue as the present system will be milked for all its worth as long as they can.

The traffic jambs in Bangkok are a direct result of police overriding the traffic lights running long periods between changes - third world or not - this all comes down to education.

In a final - think of the poor kids in the toll booths who suck up that pollution every time a car takes off. The electronic tag cards are ESSENTIAL for the lives of those people and their families. If a toll has to be collected then it should be an atmospheric pressurised booth to keep the pollution out to elongate their lives and lungs.

Do you actually drive daily in Bangkok? If these are your observations it would seem not.

The master traffic light control system was a disaster, and the traffic police stepped in and took it back when the entire city came to a stop.

Please explain why the toll booths cause the traffic jams on the expressways when they are in almost every case located BEFORE you get on. They do cause big problems on the streets feeding them, such as at the Rama III and Sukhumvit entrances, but they don't cause jams on the expressways themselves, if anything they limit them as they limit the number of cars that can get on at one time

The Traffic Police leave the lights on for long periods because they operate under the theory, and its one I agree with, the you can get more cars through an intersection if you leave the light green for 5 minutes than by splitting that period into 2 or 3 minute periods. It is frustrating to sit there waiting for two or three 5 minutes cycles to get through, but in the end it is the most efficient way to get the most cars through.

Bangkok traffic is bad because there are so many cars and the roads cannot be made big enough to handle them. Simple as that. The only hope is to implement methods, such as Singapore's ERP, to try and discourage people driving during rush hours.

[VBF]

The Thais certainly don't have a monopoly on screwing up public projects. First world countries just screw up on a bigger scale.

And usually have less reason to do so coupled with more excuses!

Witness Heathrow's Terminal 5 baggage handling system a while ago! That was a self-contained project using mature technology in a "developed" (?) country and STILL they made a total ba**s-up of it

As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the Thais are not the only people capable of making errors with new, big systems. Certainly, there MAY be an element of corruption, there MAY be an element of "face-saving" but as a professional software tester, I can assure you that these things happen everywhere. It's often due to pressures to "ship the product" before proper testing has completed in order to earn some money from it!

Another fine example? Windows Vista! Of all corporations who SHOULD know the value of complete testing before release, Microsoft should, but do they?

Edited November 17, 2009 by VBF

[hamishgillan]

I see nothing has changed on thaivisa, just a load of backbiting, with people being as rude to each other as they can get away with.

[NanLaew]

How is that a "silly comparison"? Do you think Thailand is so far behind Singapore that they could not implement a pay card system that can be universally used in mass transport, toll collection and payments in convenience stores, bar fines etc.?

Anyway NanLaew, &lt;deleted&gt;

It was silly, irrelevant and redundant comparison because Singapore had direct debit swipe cards at supermarket checkouts way, way back in the late 1980's. They also had a whole helluva lot less population than Thailand. Now if you want to talk specifically about cars and highways, they also have a whole helluva lot LESS cars and miles of expressways than the LOS.

I am all for comparing apples with apples but Thailand and Singapore? Give me a break here. Probably subscribes to the popular myth that Changi is also the best airport in the universe as well.

[Kan Win]

I keep asking for a "shaking head in disbelief" emicon. This one will have to do :D:cheesy:

Been looking for one of those to over use for sometime now.

and many more Kan be found

Give me a smile

Yours truly,

Kan Win

[xerostar]

A little off topic maybe, but to support the theory that Microsoft software maybe the culprit ..?

I was at an ATM (Krung Thai Bank) last week.

I was in the middle of withdrawing some cash and there was a power failure.

I watched the screen go through a shutdown procedure and noticed the large emblem of

Windows XP being displayed for a few moments along with a lot of other bank jargon.

Not to say Windows was to blame for this instance but it shows that one Thai bank is using

WinXP to run their banking programs, or maybe it was just running the ATM display?

Maybe the techos can explain it?

Anyway .. no cash at all. I lost my card and my temper.

A 145 Km round trip to go home to get my passport, return to the nearest Bangkok

bank to get a new card, get some cash and go home.

[dfp]

in the meantime i will continue to take advantage of the booth with the red light on and no cars in line at din daeng

Just back from Singapore. Now they are exchanging their old e-link cards, so now it not only works on the MRT and busses but also on the ERP tollroad system, schoolchildren can purchase their schoollunch at schools with the new card and shopping in 7-Eleven. It would be nice if the Thai authorities could make a study on that.

...or if you stayed in Singapore and kept the silly comparisons to yourself.

What are the silly comparisons ? Everything in one card, wouldn't it be nice ? Instead of having 2 cards for the MRT/Skytrain, one or more for each toll road operator in Bangkok. I cannot not see any silly comparisons here. I have stayed in Singapore for many years and everything there works like clockwork.

[singa-traz]

People are much more interested in their stupid TIT comments then doing a simple Google search to discover was designed and installed under the supervison of the Austrian company Kapsch TrafficCom.

What the fuc_k is the matter with you people.

You are much stupider then the any Thai that you take every occasion to deride in order to feed your naïve and childish superiority complexes.

TH

In IT, we call this "User Error" ...

[fiercesnake]

OK so this is just a usual example of typical Thailand, which most of us accept as part of living here. They are still learning, still developing and really it's only an inconvenience and money related.

What really worries me is the same set of bureaucrats want to produce a nuclear power plant here, seriously! Problem is if they get some idiot sub-contractor that makes just one little shortcut then the consequences I feel may be far more grave than just a rescheduling of an electronic pass. Are they REALLY sure they can go nuclear if they can't get so many other things like this e-pass right? This problem should be far more technically easier than nuclear physics! With nuclear there are no second chances. Think about it. LOS going nuclear???

[tmark]

OK so this is just a usual example of typical Thailand, which most of us accept as part of living here. They are still learning, still developing and really it's only an inconvenience and money related.

What really worries me is the same set of bureaucrats want to produce a nuclear power plant here, seriously! Problem is if they get some idiot sub-contractor that makes just one little shortcut then the consequences I feel may be far more grave than just a rescheduling of an electronic pass. Are they REALLY sure they can go nuclear if they can't get so many other things like this e-pass right? This problem should be far more technically easier than nuclear physics! With nuclear there are no second chances. Think about it. LOS going nuclear???

Zzzzzz .. Yawn ... Wha?? .. Oh yes. This kind of condescending comment has been done to death in this thread already ... anyone got anything new and original to say? 

PS .. why would they use a "sub-contractor"? .. sounds like Uncle Wally with his leather tool belt knocking up a set of bookshelves. Good joke ... now let's get serious ..... NEXT !

[madjbs]

The Thai expat idiots come out to play yet again. These kind of things happen on projects all around the world, all the time. All you people moaning about how useless everything and everyone here is, are only showing your own lack of knowledge and understanding as well as your bitter, nasty, hate everything attitude, an increasingly common theme displayed on these forums.

[tracer]

They should of got a proper programmer in me, with over 20 years experience. Instead they probably been down kow san lane and hired a cheap one at 500 baht.

Well, maybe you should actually have some knowledge about the topic before posting rubbish.

Personally I expect that he is bored.... I was in computers for a long time and that started on a solid core 64 k MAINFRAME...

forget the rest but things have changed and when I got to Thailand after a 'few' years the banks got computers... Funny to see every cashier being 2 people, one to write down what happened and one to stick it in a computer.

To be honest, it has got better. I can now say I know a few good engineers and still many useless ones...

I am retired so not looking for a job...(g)

[worldfun]

so we got some express ways with toll payment 'bottle necks' potentially allivating those & the next 'bottleneck' will take over in the road ;-)

then there's the 'unlucky' remaining bkk expressways that wont even get the 'easy pass' initially or perhaps ever even if already facing severe jams. oh well maybe better that way considering... LOL

anyway intersting to see whats the planned proportion of easypass/regular booths if not 100%? should be at least 50%?

[thaihome]

so we got some express ways with toll payment 'bottle necks' potentially allivating those & the next 'bottleneck' will take over in the road ;-)

then there's the 'unlucky' remaining bkk expressways that wont even get the 'easy pass' initially or perhaps ever even if already facing severe jams. oh well maybe better that way considering... LOL

anyway intersting to see whats the planned proportion of easypass/regular booths if not 100%? should be at least 50%?

If you actually drove on any expressway in Bangkok you would be able to answer the question yourself as the lanes are already clearly marked. I certainly don’t use every entrance, but in the two main ones I do use, it looks 2 out of 5 lanes at one and 1 out 3 in the other.

I think this is going to take some time to catch on. Certainly the old system only had a small fraction of people using it. I think the main problem will be unwillingness of people to part with the cash up front, especially if they do not have a lot to spare.

It should be interesting to see if this really alleviates any time waiting to pay a toll. It is only at rush hour that you see more than a few cars lined up waiting to pay, and from what I have seen it appears there will be dedicated gates in only a few places. It looks like most gates will be cash or card at the same time. So it would seem in most cases this may only save the few seconds of handing over the cash and getting change and receipt.

I don’t hold out much hope of this making any difference in the near term, maybe in very long term it may eventually help.

TH

[dfp]

How is that a "silly comparison"? Do you think Thailand is so far behind Singapore that they could not implement a pay card system that can be universally used in mass transport, toll collection and payments in convenience stores, bar fines etc.?

Anyway NanLaew, &lt;deleted&gt;

It was silly, irrelevant and redundant comparison because Singapore had direct debit swipe cards at supermarket checkouts way, way back in the late 1980's. They also had a whole helluva lot less population than Thailand. Now if you want to talk specifically about cars and highways, they also have a whole helluva lot LESS cars and miles of expressways than the LOS.

I am all for comparing apples with apples but Thailand and Singapore? Give me a break here. Probably subscribes to the popular myth that Changi is also the best airport in the universe as well.

There is one reason why there are less cars in Singapore. They are highly taxed as the government wants the population to use the mass transit systems. Additionally motorists are highly taxed via the ERP system.

We are talking about systems here and that is using a common pass for Skytrain/MRT/Buses/Toll Roads and then it does not matter whether it is in Kathmandu or Nakhon Nowhere.

Finally you hit it quite right about Changi Airport, it is one of the best in the world. Just compare it to the chaos at Suvarnabhumi.

I feel you have a certain grudge against Singapore ?

[worldfun]

"There is one reason why there are less cars in Singapore. They are highly taxed as the government wants the population to use the mass transit systems."

yes there's an 'insane' ~180% import tax on most cars just like in another small non car producing Nordic country, so the real reason why there's fewer cars is that those governments have no financial incentives to keep car numbers high. get it?

like everything else its all about money so dont sweat it just accept that apples are no oranges

[thaihome]

"There is one reason why there are less cars in Singapore. They are highly taxed as the government wants the population to use the mass transit systems."

yes there's an 'insane' ~180% import tax on most cars just like in another small non car producing Nordic country, so the real reason why there's fewer cars is that those governments have no financial incentives to keep car numbers high. get it?

like everything else its all about money so dont sweat it just accept that apples are no oranges

Actually Singapore controls the number of vehicles not by import tax but with a system called the Certifcate of Entilement (COE). The government issues set number of COE’s each year which are then sold at action where the price is determined by demand. The COE is only good for 10 years and at that point the vehicle must be exported or scrapped. It is a very good system that limits the number of new vehicles allowed and sets the price on the open market. Unfortunately it is only practical for a small city-state like Singapore and wouldn’t work in Thailand.

I would like to see Bangkok implement a version of the Electronic Road Pricing (ERP) which would charge each vehicle for entering specific central business districts (CBD) such as lower Sukhumvit and Silom/Sathorn. Of course, the BMA would need to greatly improve the current “Park and Ride” sites now available in the suburbs to allow people to take mass transit into the CBD’s. Though available in limited places, such Park and Ride sites are not very convenient for many people and it is just easier to take your car into the CBD.

TH

[samran]

"There is one reason why there are less cars in Singapore. They are highly taxed as the government wants the population to use the mass transit systems."

yes there's an 'insane' ~180% import tax on most cars just like in another small non car producing Nordic country, so the real reason why there's fewer cars is that those governments have no financial incentives to keep car numbers high. get it?

like everything else its all about money so dont sweat it just accept that apples are no oranges

Actually Singapore controls the number of vehicles not by import tax but with a system called the Certifcate of Entilement (COE). The government issues set number of COE’s each year which are then sold at action where the price is determined by demand. The COE is only good for 10 years and at that point the vehicle must be exported or scrapped. It is a very good system that limits the number of new vehicles allowed and sets the price on the open market. Unfortunately it is only practical for a small city-state like Singapore and wouldn’t work in Thailand.

I would like to see Bangkok implement a version of the Electronic Road Pricing (ERP) which would charge each vehicle for entering specific central business districts (CBD) such as lower Sukhumvit and Silom/Sathorn. Of course, the BMA would need to greatly improve the current “Park and Ride” sites now available in the suburbs to allow people to take mass transit into the CBD’s. Though available in limited places, such Park and Ride sites are not very convenient for many people and it is just easier to take your car into the CBD.

TH

I think something even more simple is placing a tax on parking spots in BKK. Parking is dirt cheap down town and encourages people to simply drive into town because the monetary cost of the trip is so 'cheap'. Easier to implement than a ERP (though that is a good idea too) and is perhaps the first step of making people pay the true economic cost of their road trip into town.

[worldfun]

om 'my' main expressway entrance 0/11 lanes are marked for 'easy pass', but what do I know I only work as a toll collector at lane 9 LOL

[RubbaJohnny]

Perhaps the contract was 'SWIPED INCORRECTLY'

Pre=loaded non credit cards are used worldwide (therefore visitors children etc can use them)

Of course they are great revenue cows for vendors as they get the cashflow upfront.

They are same as pre-loaded travel cheque or bankcards and culd have been bought of the shelf

Tag readers have been in use in Norway France for decades....

However we all know TIT that the contract was perhaps not as transparent as ee.g. Scandanavia

Bridges fall down in USA and towers designed to withstand Aircraft impact fall

I guess fast stretches on Expressway allow one more time to retune music queueing at the next glitch

Oddly the permaculture solution is right under the freeway ride a bike and grow veg on local plots

Edited November 22, 2009 by RubbaJohnny

[JatujakShopper]

---snipped-----

Can we criticize the Thais for falling in the same pitfalls as we have in the much "wiser" and developed USA?

Please, cut the Thais some slack!

Pisico

Edited to a more positive message: Thais are lovely people, trust them in all things!

Edited November 22, 2009 by JatujakShopper