Desperate Thaksin May Go For Broke

[Thaihog]

It's a pity that when Thaksin told the times reporter that he only had $200K in the bank, the reporter never asked him about the $150 million he got for the sale of English soccer club Manchester City, where did this money go. Did he donate to charity LOL.....

All Thaksins millions are in bank accounts of his ex wife and his kids where nobody can legally get at them...

[NOKIA6969]

The megalomaniac is out of control. In his self serving attempt to bring down the Democrats, he may well be twisting his knife into the Kingdom itself.

I wonder how long he can run his private jet on his perpetual travels if 100 to 200 thousand bucks was all he really had.

ERR...100-200 Million USD and by the way he said it, x4 i recon

[PeaceBlondie]

I thought he said his assets were down to US$100-200 MILLION.

[steveromagnino]

It's a pity that when Thaksin told the times reporter that he only had $200K in the bank, the reporter never asked him about the $150 million he got for the sale of English soccer club Manchester City, where did this money go. Did he donate to charity LOL.....

All Thaksins millions are in bank accounts of his ex wife and his kids where nobody can legally get at them...

As he gives his interviews from a secret location staying at the Burj which is one of the most expensive hotels in the world, holding court in an entire floor with a team of advisors out of USA lobbying and PR firms surrounding him to assist and plenty of bodyguards and assistance, one might question whether he is indeed 'short of a bob'.

'Until the vast majority poor have a seat at the table can there be peace. On their terms. One man -one vote. These are the people who serve you every day- food, cleaning, sex. It is why you live here. What kind of person are you? look to your own motives. Taksin is used as straw man to distract from the real suffering of the many.'

Hey have had one man one vote since the early 90s bar 1 year; the end result has included electing Thaksin, electing Banharn, Samak and the most recent coalition government with Abhisit. One person one vote (which is what I presume you are trying to say here) under an MMP system with the usual coalition governments required under that in all cases except 2004 is alive and well.

It just so happens that most of the politicians representing the people are total knobs. That's the bigger issue.

'This kind of head line just shows how desesperate some people close to the present administration are. Since the beginning of the year, anybody with a little bit of money was able to at least double any money invested in the stock exchange. Banks that were broke now show healthy profits. Mr Thaksin, if anything, is a wise investor.'

Indeed. Despite the yellow shirts holding the country hostage with the airport occupation in December, following the red shirt attempts to derail the economy in April with their riots and then their lies about massacres, then again with a few aborted rallies, then again upcoming more rallies, the Thai economy to date has weathered the storm fairly well; little wonder that Thaksin being a 'wise investor' as you call him is so keen to try to undo this because that is the only card he really has with the voters who chose him; that he is somehow a better choice than anyone else.

His own track record as PM saw lots of PR but nothing spectacular long term from a policy or economics perspective either from indicators such as GDP growth (for instance no double digits GDP growth despite all the claims in 2003/04 from guys like Raktapongpaisan that the FTAs we signed so quickly with no due diligence really would result in double digits growth thereafter) or wealth distribution or anything really, so he really needs things to be quite a lot worse in order to being able to claim believably that he would be doing a better job; after all the administrations since his have actually got most of the schemes that were failing/struggling in his time (30b healthcare, deregulation, legal controls, elite card, roading/skytrain masstransit, new airport) either working (healthcare) or cancelled (Elite) or on a long path to fixing the mess (airport, mass transit).

I think yes, there is someone desperate and no doubt the killer blow is coming if he cannot stop it as he did in the asset concealment case where he was clearly by the letter of the law guilty in lying about his assets, but was able to get off by the narrowest of margins thanks to huge public pressure. Whether he can create that pressure again now; having failed to derail ASEAN in April and APEC a few weeks ago via Cambodia remains to be seen.

Edited November 23, 2009 by steveromagnino

[h90]

It's a pity that when Thaksin told the times reporter that he only had $200K in the bank, the reporter never asked him about the $150 million he got for the sale of English soccer club Manchester City, where did this money go. Did he donate to charity LOL.....

All Thaksins millions are in bank accounts of his ex wife and his kids where nobody can legally get at them...

he told a couple of 100 millions and corrected himself after getting some direct questions.

It was obvious that he is just lying around and tries to tell the number which fits him best.

[Lite Beer]

Inflammatory post deleted.

[Jingthing]

I find the article spot on. Thaksin is clearly extremely desperate now to overthrow the current government, and the article explains the urgency and unfortunate offensiveness of his timing (the big money case is coming up). The main thing that I question in the article is their conclusion that if he loses his latest final desperate push (as he did miserably at Black Songkran) that he will really, really quit this, even if the courts rule harshly against him. It is hard to imagine him ever stopping this campaign as long as he does live.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Jingthing

[trd]

As long as the military continues to intervene in politics, Thailand can never join the club of democratic countries. Whether you like Thaksin or not, he was elected by the people in a free election, not once but three times and then deposed in a coup. How can the powers that be adopt such a self righteous attitude while ignoring such a blatant breach of democratic values.

He was elected twice.

The third election was annulled for TRT fraud.

You need to understand a bit more about how real establishment power works here. So why hasn't every other political party been banned for vote buying in the last 30 years? Do you seriously believe that 18 million votes were bought.

TRT was then disbanded.

He had dissolved the parliament by his own choice,

and when 'deposed' was an unelected, appointed caretaker PM,

and sole person in charge of the government,

while showing clear signs of mental instability.

Also he was elected by the people as an MP and nothing more.

In most democratic countries it is the party that selects their PM

He was then elected by a coalition in parliament as PM.

Coalitions are and have always been part of parliamentary democracy. Read some history.

That's how it works here and that is the facts.

He was not elected in PPP, even though he was it's puppet-master.

All this points to his desperation of course.

It is a failings of his logic and control that caused him

to lose all he coveted so highly, including his pile of cash.

I don't know where you come from, but I would have serious objection to tanks rolling down my high street.

I'm not going to remove this post, as the intent is quite clear.

If you want you post to live please take note of forum rule

#29. To not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[hansnl]

I don't see how a fall in the govt at the 11th hour will derail the court judgement against him, first there wouldn't be enough time for his cronies to regain power through an election or parliamentary vote before the verdict and even if and when they came back to power they wouldn't easily be able to influence the court at this late stage, since all the hearings and evidence gathering has finished.

It's more about timing for an election since the longer the Dem coalition holds out the more the economy will recover and with each desperate attempt to force them out, Thaksin is losing more and more credibility. They've got the momentum going now with the Cambodia crisis and want to create a last ditch attempt at forcing the govt to slip up (perhaps some military bloodshed to quell the riots). Remember these are conniving but not entirely sane or clever people involved (UDD, Puea Thai), just listen to some of their crazy rhetoric and accusations.

If he survives the Asset Seizure, then a PT govt would be able to work on somehow creating a re-trial for Thaksin, but I believe that a marginal decision will rule against him, considering how much havoc he's created for the country. Just imagine what sort of havoc he could create if you gave him back 2 billion US$. Perhaps they hope that behind the scenes they can cut a deal with him, whereby he gets his money back eventually when he's proven he can stay out of politics and fade away.

He can fight on and on, drag the country down as a bargaining tool but frankly I think one man taking on a whole system that has the courts and ethical advantage is just too big a mountain to climb. Ultimately he needs not only to somehow weed his way out of convictions but then face down a very dissatisfied country if justice is ultimately stymied.

What it might come down to his an outright civil confrontation between two halves of the country to the point that everyone loses, and ultimate Thailand has to ask itself do we put an individual or the country first. And I don't think Thaksin really wants to see that far down the line.

Oh yes, that is what he really wants.....power, raw ultimate power.

At any cost!

[otherstuff1957]

Actually I wonder if he really needs to worry about the verdict in this case. Consider Samak's "cooking show" verdict, Thaksin's "Pojemon's land" verdict and the Rubbertree sapling case. The first two were cases where relatively few individuals were involved. The third case was a typical legal labyrinth where everyone and his cousin had a finger in the pie. In the first two cases Samak and Thaksin could be found guilty without too many other people being implicated. In the Rubber sapling case many powerful, influential people were involved, including allies of the current government. A guilty verdict would simply have been too destabilizing.

I don't know the details of the Assets case, but are there any members of the current government or their allies involved? If so, mightn't a guilty verdict for Thaksin lead to the current coalition falling apart?

[neverdie]

I thought he said his assets were down to US$100-200 MILLION.

Ohhh poor baaaastard, I hate it when that happens.

Interestingly, if you took 200 million USD and turned it into AUD, you'd have 220 million AUD, then at todays interest rate of 6.25% on a term deposit, paid 10% non resident withholding tax on the deposit, you would only end up with 12.4 million AUD (Approx) in earnings, a mere 31 million baht per month to live off. Poor baaastard.

[p_brownstone]

Desperate Thaksin may go for broke

By Political Desk

The Nation

This kind of head line just shows how desesperate some people close to the present administration are. Since the beginning of the year, anybody with a little bit of money was able to at least double any money invested in the stock exchange. Banks that were broke now show healthy profits. Mr Thaksin, if anything, is a wise investor.

It's worrying for the country that a major newspaper spreads this kind of rumour. It just shows how scare some people are of Mr Thaksin.

You clearly do not understand English idioms (nothing wrong with that – I don’t understand many Thai idioms too!) - "go for broke" means to throw out all pretence and take decisive action in a final attempt to succeed.

It has nothing to do with money.

Patrick

[justnbangkok]

The Nation really do put the 'anal' into analysis.

During the Songkran mayhem, the premier almost lost his life when his car was attacked by red-shirted people at the Interior Ministry.

So aside from the fact Abhisit wasnt in his car or anywhere near it when it was attacked, how did he almost lose his life? But let's not dwell on the little details when there is an excuse for yet another anti-Thaksin rant in The Nation.

he was in the same location when the car was attacked. he was on the way out to his car.

[Naam]

Figures of 600 to 800,000 million dollars as his remaining wealth have been bandied around and if memory serves correctly, he even mentioned a similar number and then at a different time and place said friends were helping him out as he was kind of short.

ahemm... cough... cough...

[givenall]

We always knew this was coming down the pike.

No surprise, just a question of when.

Sad isn't it.

I don’t think this sad at all. I think is justice served even if it is served by the same kind of people that have rise to power and wealth as he has

[baht&sold]

We always knew this was coming down the pike.

No surprise, just a question of when.

Sad isn't it.

I don’t think this sad at all. I think is justice served even if it is served by the same kind of people that have rise to power and wealth as he has

Pffft!

"He owns the party and has the right to do anything. Nobody can stop him. Nobody dare criticise him"

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/11/18...cs_30116842.php

The above quote from a frazzled Puea Thai source speaks volumes about Mr Thaksin and the movement he's directing- to serve HIS needs.

Shades of a megalomaniac in a bunker screaming: 'I AM Germany, Germany is ME!!!'.... (as the penny drops and aides scurry for cover)

[LawnGnome]

As the days and weeks roll by, and Thaksin sinks further and further in depravity, those who defend him look more and more unstable as well. Also, it would sure be refreshing if Thaksinistas would admit that you can dislike Thaksin, and still not be allied with the military/PAD/ elite/ ThaiChinese Own All and Control All Conspiracy, etc.

[Jingthing]

As the days and weeks roll by, and Thaksin sinks further and further in depravity, those who defend him look more and more unstable as well. Also, it would sure be refreshing if Thaksinistas would admit that you can dislike Thaksin, and still not be allied with the military/PAD/ elite/ ThaiChinese Own All and Control All Conspiracy, etc.

That would be very refreshing. A sincere, idealistic, ethical reform minded political movement that denounces BOTH extreme sides. Why can't the Thais get this together? It doesn't bode well for real democracy here anytime soon.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Jingthing

[trainman34014]

Where was the police escort when Abhisit's car was attacked? Did they stand there looking like spare tricks at a wedding as per usual? Are they, like all bullies, tainted with cowardice?

Too busy stopping bikers without helmets for tea money of course. Since when did they care about anyone else but themselves?

[Publicus]

I don't see how a fall in the govt at the 11th hour will derail the court judgement against him, first there wouldn't be enough time for his cronies to regain power through an election or parliamentary vote before the verdict and even if and when they came back to power they wouldn't easily be able to influence the court at this late stage, since all the hearings and evidence gathering has finished.

It's more about timing for an election since the longer the Dem coalition holds out the more the economy will recover and with each desperate attempt to force them out, Thaksin is losing more and more credibility. They've got the momentum going now with the Cambodia crisis and want to create a last ditch attempt at forcing the govt to slip up (perhaps some military bloodshed to quell the riots). Remember these are conniving but not entirely sane or clever people involved (UDD, Puea Thai), just listen to some of their crazy rhetoric and accusations.

If he survives the Asset Seizure, then a PT govt would be able to work on somehow creating a re-trial for Thaksin, but I believe that a marginal decision will rule against him, considering how much havoc he's created for the country. Just imagine what sort of havoc he could create if you gave him back 2 billion US$. Perhaps they hope that behind the scenes they can cut a deal with him, whereby he gets his money back eventually when he's proven he can stay out of politics and fade away.

He can fight on and on, drag the country down as a bargaining tool but frankly I think one man taking on a whole system that has the courts and ethical advantage is just too big a mountain to climb. Ultimately he needs not only to somehow weed his way out of convictions but then face down a very dissatisfied country if justice is ultimately stymied.

What it might come down to his an outright civil confrontation between two halves of the country to the point that everyone loses, and ultimate Thailand has to ask itself do we put an individual or the country first. And I don't think Thaksin really wants to see that far down the line.

Oh yes, that is what he really wants.....power, raw ultimate power.

At any cost!

Yes, the money is reality and the loss of power by being deposed is the loss of face. Thaksin wants both back. I'd enthusiasticaly welcome a conditional deal which would give some of Thaksin's loot back to him if over time Thaksin could prove he is finally, in fact, truely and in actuality done and finished with politics. However and unfortunately, I'm not holding my breath for such a clean and optimistic arrangement and outcome.

[Supernova]

Thaksin needs to protect his Bt76 billion assets, perhaps his last resources as far as the public knows, which have been frozen at the request of the Assets Examination Committee.

How unfortunate... I'm sure a good chunk of that money was also acquired legitimately.

After using neighbouring country Cambodia to attack Thailand, leading to a dispute between the two countries

The ongoing diplomatic row with the Cambodian Government wouldn't have happened had Abhisit kept his cool. But I guess he just had too much of a hard-on for Thaksin to let it pass... What Abhisit needs is a crash course in Diplomacy.

During the Songkran mayhem, the premier almost lost his life when his car was attacked by red-shirted people at the Interior Ministry.

What a load of trash. Funny how journalists distort the truth and get away with it.

It would be no surprise if Thaksin sets off on a "kamikaze" mission and takes the country hostage as he has always done - putting his personal interest before the country's.

LOL. So the coup that overthrew the government three years ago wasn't a kamikaze mission? What about the 'elite' who are running the show behind the scenes? If there's anyone holding this country hostage, it's them.

Another EPIC FAIL by The Nation.

[timekeeper]

Thaksin broke,you must be joking.

He's smarter then the whole government together.

if was really smart, then he would not have left a paper trail a mile wide behind him and left the money to be seized when it all went wrong

i would have more time and respect for him if he had taken every satang with him............

[baht&sold]

WEB OF INTRIGUE

Prosecution reveals how the Shinawatras hid and multiplied their assets while in power

Would you cheat your son out of Bt3 billion? That could happen if your assistant was in a hurry to cover up something very important to you.

That was what the prosecution in the Bt76-billion asset seizure case against ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra told the Supreme Court last week.

The story was part of the prosecution's detailed argument that Thaksin and his ex-wife, Pojaman na Pombejra, did own altogether 46.87 per cent of Shin Corp shares worth more than Bt69 billion while the former held the country's highest office from 2001-2006.

The alleged cover-up of massive wealth was in blatant violation of Article 100(3) of the National Counter-Corruption Commission Act of 1999, which bars public office holders and their spouses from owning shares in companies holding state concessions.

In this case, Shin Corp was the holding company for Advanced Info Service (AIS) and Shin Satellite, which enjoyed government concessions for lucrative cellular and satellite service businesses.

Back in 2000, Thaksin and Pojaman were busy preparing to hide their multibillion-baht assets ahead of the general election.

After winning the election by a landslide, they could have sold off the assets or put them under a "blind" trust to comply with the law, but these options were never used.

Instead, a highly complex web of offshore and onshore entities and nominees was used to conceal their tremendous wealth.

Behind the scenes, the motives were multifaceted, ranging from tax avoidance to election campaign financing and other political reasons.

The entire process of concealing such massive wealth was unprecedented in Thai history. So was the subsequent government policies and measures used to increase the value of the holdings over a period of more than five years.

Kaewsan Atibhodi, a member of the now-defunct Assets Examination Committee, which investigated this and other Thaksin cases, said the overall process of asset concealment and "policy corruption" was just intriguing.

As a key prosecution witness in the Bt76-billion asset seizure case pending in the Supreme Court, Kaewsan last week testified that the whole Bt76 billion fortune should be devolved to the state.

"First of all, Thaksin hid his vast shareholdings even after being elected the prime minister, so he intentionally violated Article 100(3) of the NCCC law.

"Secondly, as prime minister, he introduced measures and policies that benefited Shin Corp so he violated Article 100(1) of the NCCC law.

"Therefore, Thaksin abused his office to gain his wealth, resulting in a loss to the state of more than Bt100 billion. Since he and his former wife controlled as much as 46.87 per cent of Shin Corp, the benefits from such a large shareholding were therefore ill-gotten and should be forfeited."

Yet, the prosecution would have to convince the court that Thaksin and Pojaman did really conceal their wealth while the former was in office - a key point consistently countered and dismissed by the defence lawyers.

Given that the burden of proof rests with the accused in corruption and related cases, the prosecution concluded that they were not satisfied with evidence presented by the defence, which argued that all Shin Corp shares were "sold" to the couple's children and relatives before Thaksin assumed the premiership.

"This argument was not convincing because the documentation, such as notices of share transfers, promissory notes, annual reports of Ample Rich Co (one of the offshore nominees) could have been tampered with or backdated to alter the whole story," Kaewsan said.

"However, we're not given any hard evidence that couldn't be meddled with, such as share depositories or transaction records that Thaksin could have asked from UBS Bank (Singapore branch) to prove that his son, Panthongtae, was the authorised owner of those shares, not just his father's nominee."

Pojaman testified before the court that Panthongtae earlier paid her Bt4.5 billion in promissory notes for a total of 450 million shares of TMB Bank that were sold to her son.

Her testimony raised even more questions than answers on the contentious point of whether the son and other Shinawatra children as well as relatives were genuine buyers of Thaksin and Pojaman's shares or just their nominees.

The facts show that if the Bt4.5 billion payment by Panthongtae to her mother for the TMB shares was real as claimed by Pojaman, the mother would have probably conned her son out of as much as Bt3 billion in just one go.

Why? The entire 450 million shares of TMB Bank as cited by Pojaman included 300 million shares that Pojaman got for free via the exercise of 300 million warrants, so the actual cost of all 450 million TMB shares was just Bt1.5 billion, not the hugely-inflated Bt4.5 billion.

Any decent mother wouldn't have done this to her beloved children. In other words, it simply defies conventional wisdom.

So what could have happened? Besides Pojaman's aides, who prepared the document for court evidence, no one else would have a clear idea of what went wrong, but the glitch clearly undermines the defence's credibility as far as true ownership of all of the Thaksin-Pojaman assets is concerned.

In fact, this is one of the most fundamental points in the prosecution's argument for taking permanent possession of the Bt76 billion.

The prosecution firmly believes that Thaksin covered up his wealth illegally and then launched policies and measures that enormously benefited his financial interests over his years in office before selling those assets to Temasek Holding of Singapore at a huge gain in 2006.

Company above state

Five policies and measures |that benefited Shin Corp:

- Reduction in the concession fee of AIS from 25 per cent to 20 per cent of its revenue, resulting in state-owned TOT losing Bt70 billion.

- Amending AIS's contracts with TOT and state-owned CAT to share roaming charges resulting in a combined loss of Bt21.7 billion for the state.

- Enacting legislation to convert concession fees into excise tax on telecom services in bid to keep AIS's market lead at the expense of competitors.

- Approving Shin Sat's IP Star satellite project so that it did not have to put into orbit a Bt4-billion Thaicom 4 satellite, resulting in a Bt20-billion loss in state benefits.

- Approving a Bt1-billion increase in Exim Bank loan for Burma from Bt3 billion to Bt4 billion, so the extra Bt1 billion could be used to buy satellite services from Shin Sat.

-- The Nation 23 Nov 2009

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Samuian]

All this makes me think what might have been stored in the many, many trunks leaving with 2 Jumbo Jets off to Norway in the days when his luck turned bad...

maybe the Shin Shares case is just something very obvious who knows...what else and why was it all in such a mess - is it because they couldn't or would trust anyone else, because of the nature of their so fast accumulated wealth?

Comes the financial crash to mind where, if one would have known.... one could double his fortunes, I remember these events very well... when Chavalit always insisted that there would be no "floating" of the Baht, but then, on a Monday, it was a Bank Holiday he announced the unavoidable...

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Sigh.. Honestly, people electing Mr. Thaksin elected him BECAUSE of his business experience in running one of the biggest Thai companies. Honestly, tranferring ownership of so many mega-companies was never going to be easy. And now the "burden of proof rests with the accused", with the prosecuting simply stating they don't believe the evidence.

Unbelievable.

Edited November 23, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[hammered]

Interesting stuff from both Gen.Prem and Thaksin in the unmentionable one.

[Jingthing]

Sigh.. Honestly, people electing Mr. Thaksin elected him BECAUSE of his business experience in running one of the biggest Thai companies. Honestly, tranferring ownership of so many mega-companies was never going to be easy. And now the "burden of proof rests with the accused", with the prosecuting simply stating they don't believe the evidence.

Unbelievable.

Really?

Doesn't Thailand operate under the Napoleonic system of justice where you're presumed guilty if charged and have to prove your innocence? Why a different standard for the drug dealer vs. the rich man?

[Artisi]

Sigh.. Honestly, people electing Mr. Thaksin elected him BECAUSE of his business experience in running one of the biggest Thai companies. Honestly, tranferring ownership of so many mega-companies was never going to be easy. And now the "burden of proof rests with the accused", with the prosecuting simply stating they don't believe the evidence.

Unbelievable.

Really?

Doesn't Thailand operate under the Napoleonic system of justice where you're presumed guilty if charged and have to prove your innocence? Why a different standard for the drug dealer vs. the rich man?

Why a different standard for a rich man (read Thaksin), cause he's not guilty - just ask him.

[Samuian]

Sigh.. Honestly, people electing Mr. Thaksin elected him BECAUSE of his business experience in running one of the biggest Thai companies. Honestly, tranferring ownership of so many mega-companies was never going to be easy. And now the "burden of proof rests with the accused", with the prosecuting simply stating they don't believe the evidence.

Unbelievable.

There is nothing to "believe" it's about truth, facts, being presented which leave no doubts and that simply hasn't happened!

The example where she would have "cheated" her own son.... of around 3 Billion... is quite mind boggling but I am sure these are only "honest mistakes"... why no proper transfer sheets, bank evidence, all "only to avoid" taxes - this alone s a crime already!

The gardener, the secretary all of a sudden the have been all holding hsares worth millions and millions, nay billions - right, or

might an law enforcing agency have the right to question and investigate such practice?

The kiddies have just left college.... she worked at McDonalds and he is a photographer and are worth millions, lending daddy some money that he doesn;t feel lonely and bored in his exile to buy an entire football club like ManC..?

The changing of laws for his very own gains... Nothing?

What is your understanding of right and wrong then?

Where are we, is Alice in Wonderland time again?

[hammered]

Sigh.. Honestly, people electing Mr. Thaksin elected him BECAUSE of his business experience in running one of the biggest Thai companies. Honestly, tranferring ownership of so many mega-companies was never going to be easy. And now the "burden of proof rests with the accused", with the prosecuting simply stating they don't believe the evidence.

Unbelievable.

Really?

Doesn't Thailand operate under the Napoleonic system of justice where you're presumed guilty if charged and have to prove your innocence? Why a different standard for the drug dealer vs. the rich man?

Thai law is (Roman) code based and Roman code is where the idea of innocent until proven guilty stems from.

Edited to add: many systems though do have small parts of the legal system where this gets inverted, and I am not sure whether Thailand has any specific laws that do this.

Edited November 23, 2009 by hammered