Mind Your Own Business In Los

[cognos]

re: the recent post about the ex- Western policeman in THAILAND wanting to help the "assaulted" woman.. Years ago, there used to be news reports in Vancouver about people in the US cities ignoring the plight of unfortunates being beaten up, assaulted, even killed. The gist was, " mind your own business".. ignore the problem as it was not yours. Perhaps many Canadians smugly thought we were better, but the big city mentality crept up to Canada years ago, leveling the playing field and making Canadians the same as our neighbours to the South. In LOS, us farang generally "mind our own business". This is understandable in many cases, as we are farang and as such do not understand the nuances of some parts of the Thai culture. How about the Thais themselves? Was it always a case here of "minding your own business", even when people are being assaulted?.. or is it like in the west, where the ME FIRST attitude has swung to the extreme end of the pendulum, where neighbours ignore neighbours, "everything" is shrugged off unless its happening to you or your direct family??

[jc14all]

It is all about culture clashes and I can understand from a distance this line of reasoning but when I'm face to face and knee deep involved in an incident it is very difficult to resist or reject my gut instincts. I have to keep reminding myself that I'm in Thailand and not in my home country like some programmed robot with programmed directives (Robo Cop). It isn't easy because sometimes our responses come natural which my lead us into trouble.

I was once in Korea when a friend of mind responded to a drowning women who had fallen from a bridge into an icy cold river. All the bystanders did nothing but my friend's natural reaction was to save her life and that is exactly what he did. All was good and well and he was considered a hero in the newspapers and in the overseas media.

About a month later that same women shows up at my friend's door as a cultural thing that he is now responsible for her life and she now belongs to him. nevertheless, my friend's wife (Korean) would not have it and sent the girl packing. I don't know what became of the girl other than she became a social misfit in her own country, because no one wants such a person in that culture (most likely she would commit suicide). Moral of the story was to mind your own business when your are in a foreign country. It isn't always easy but we live and learn and take our risk based on our past experiences.

I just hope I never have to deal with myself responding to my gut instinct and later having to live with it. It really sucks but that is what it is.

Edited November 30, 2009 by jc14all

[cognos]

"..I have to keep reminding myself that I'm in Thailand.."

precisely my attempted point..should one live by the "golden rule" everywhere, ie: treat others as you would wish to be treated, or should one forego this in instances when it is "culturally unacceptable"( like perhaps in Thailand)? BTW, TV folks, please do not take this as a moral affront to yourself, it is an attempt ( perhaps a very lame one at that ) to look at our values as they pertain to general and/or specific situations where someone "needs help"..no more, no less

[easyride]

I was in my favourite open air bar last night when a Thai boy sat next to me and started chatting. Moments later a couple of police leapt off thier bikes and started slapping the lad about. Why? How should I know but my beer nearly got knocked over. They ignored me and I ignored them.

Handcuffed he was eventually driven away in a police van and I was left to continue my enjoyment. I love Thailand.

[mahtin]

Cognos, you are not keeping your promise.

Farang Pub?

[Ulysses G.]

I was in my favourite open air bar last night when a Thai boy sat next to me and started chatting. Moments later a couple of police leapt off thier bikes and started slapping the lad about. Why? How should I know but my beer nearly got knocked over. They ignored me and I ignored them.

Handcuffed he was eventually driven away in a police van and I was left to continue my enjoyment. I love Thailand.

If you were any kind of a man, you would have stood up and thrashed them all.

[mahtin]

If you were any kind of a man, you would have stood up and thrashed them all.

Are we supposed to be talking about barboys?

[IMA_FARANG]

No it hasn't always been the case....and isn't a Thai trait. It is a response learned to adapt to the "moderenization" of Thai life in the cities....exactly as it is in western cities....like New York and (maybe) London.

Experiments with rats have established gthat as their living conditions get more rowded, the rats become more vilent and uncaring toward both othe rats they are not related to, and siblings from teir own litter.

I first came to Thailand in 1977...and I know from my experience that since that time life for the average Thai has become much harder, and the old "Land of Smiles"...at least in Bangkok...isn't as friendly as it used to be. I've seen this change as the lifestyle in Bangkok became more "weaternized".

I remember vividly walking with my Thai girlfriend in 1978 out from the guesthouse where we were staying to the main road to get a taxi. An old man was sitting by a wall, looking dazed and hungry. I, the farang, was about to pass him by, when my Thai girlfriend stopped and asked him if he was alright. After a short disussion she established that he had no money for food and that he had no home. My Thai girlfriend gave him some money from her own purse, and led him to a food stall to get a bowl of noodles which she paid for. (That was the first hint that I might have a"keeper" there)

My Thai girlfriend raised 3 children by herself, when her Thai husband ran off leaving her with nothing. I remeber how she told me that once that then when she had no food for the children, a nieghbor woman brought her some food...becaus the children were hungry.

But that was 40 years ago....before life was "westernized".

There has been economic progress in Bangkok since 40 to 50 years ago....but that doesn't life has "improved".

[RoastLamb]

If you saw a man slapping around a woman by the side of the road in your home country, most of us, if we were being honest, would gladly ignore it. It's only the farang superiority complex that tells you to do something if you see that in Thailand, it's as if it suddenly becomes your purpose in life to teach these undeveloped people some lessons in morality. You should definitely mind your own business, here or anywhere else for that matter. Unless you're a Policeman you have no right to police and unless you're a Judge you have no right to judge.

[eek]

"..I have to keep reminding myself that I'm in Thailand.."

Personally, when it comes to someone possibly in distress, sod whatever the so-called culture might be. MY culture is one of humanity, and rightly or wrongly, for me that means trying to come to the aid of someone who may need it. Of course, each situation is different and that doesnt mean running in throwing your weight around. I dont care if it labels me as a "busy body", but i think i also have tact and know where my limits are. Its not all or nothing..there is a middle ground of what a person can try to do.

Ive heard domestic arguments outside my place at night a few times. I go out to quietly check that its remaining verbal. A couple of times that meant i had to sit outside whilst slightly napping just to make sure. If a fight ensued id first of all call on a security guard around my place, and second call out for them to stop. Physically i can do nothing, but I can at least make effort to try get them to stop. I havent been tested on that though..yet.

If i was ever in a situation where it was down to me to prevent something serious happening, i believe i have enough integrity to get over any fear and grab the nearest thing i could use as a defensive weapon if needs be. Then i would tell the person to back off.

If you saw a man slapping around a woman by the side of the road in your home country, most of us, if we were being honest, would gladly ignore it.

I dont know how others feel about this RoastLamb, but for me i disagree. However, as a woman it may be easier as im probably less likely to antagonise a man who is being violent, than if another man were to step in in some way.

You should definitely mind your own business, here or anywhere else for that matter. Unless you're a Policeman you have no right to police and unless you're a Judge you have no right to judge.

Vehemently disagree, sorry. I dont view coming to the aid of a person as judging. I dont need to know the reasons why someone may be having the living daylights beaten out of them, i should try to find a way to stop it. In fact, by NOT doing something, you are just allowing someone else to be a "judge", instead of making sure the proper authorities sort it out. At the very least some kind of report should be made to help the person, rather than minding ones own business and letting another person suffer. I would always regret if i were to read a story of how someone was raped or beaten to death in an area where i had heard (or possibly seen) something going on. Im not superwoman, maybe there is nothing i could do physically, but at least i have a phone, and in that phone i have various numbers programmed. I also have a voice, and that voice can scream out and attract attention, and when needed, i am not afraid to use it.

[RoastLamb]

You're taking it to extremes a bit there, eek, what with the rapes and murders. Those incidents are in a different league to the physical bickering that the thread refers to. Luckily not many of us will be put into situations where it is up to us to stop a murder, and obviously we'd all like to stay we'd step in and stop it, but in reality noone knows how they would react in such a situation. I suppose everybody has a certain line of violence that when crossed, they would act. For me the guy slapping his girlfriend by the side of the road does not cross that line. Indeed that line has never been crossed. I've never felt the need to step into a confrontation that didn't involve me. Maybe I've just lived a sheltered life, or maybe it's because if I had a violent girlfriend with whom my relationship had deteriorated to the point where she was slapping me by the side of the road, the last thing I would want is some stranger coming in and thinking they could magically resolve a situation that was probably the culmination of several years worth of very personal drama.

[GuestHouse]

Looking around at the behavior of so many of the misfit Farangs that get washed up in Thailand it's understandable why this 'Mind your own business' is so attractive to so many.

On another day we'll get posts from guys who've had their passports seized by their embassy because they didn't take care of their own business before running away to Thailand. Or guys posting on how they ran away from debt, or the law back home.

And that's not to mention guys who even manage to fall foul of the lax law enforcement here.

Thailand is slowly filling up with guys who have every reason to want everyone else to 'mind their own business'.

[happylarry]

I cant believe there have been so many posts on here and yet no-one has mentioned the true reason for not getting involved.

It is an established fact that in this country if a farang stops at a roadside accident then he will be deemed responsible for causing it even if he were nowhere near at the time. In the UK if I saw someone needing help I wouldnt think twice about stopping, but here in Thailand no way, and believe me it is truly hard to drive on by but the Thai's have brought it on themselves by their false claims.

In the case of the man assaulting a woman in the street, once again in the UK i wouldnt think twice about stepping in but out here....if he is the sort of man who does that then he will more than likely be carrying a gun and use it, or visit you later with a dozen of his friends. There is absolutely no doubt that the serious loss of face would force him to get even one way or another

For all its good points thailand is a very violent and lawless country and for a ferang to get involved with that voluntarily is beyond stupidity.

HL

[TaoNow]

As an indicator of how deep and pervasive the "do not get involved" norm is in Thai society, just mention the word "seu-ak" (เสือก) to a Thai friend and watch their reaction.

[cognos]

"Cognos, you are not keeping your promise.."

my bpen rai khrap?? sorry, I broke a promise..but I don't break important ones..btw if I see a lady being assaulted..I will probably step in, dam_n the torpedos.. as a victim of sexual abuse as a kid, I have an extra dose of sympathy for all victims, especially female..I was a wood work teacher in PC ( protective custody..prison system, with many murders, sex offenders, "rats"etc.) for 7 years, and have some degree of street smarts to hopefully not get myself killed if intervening..

[cognos]

.."It is an established fact that in this country if a farang stops at a roadside accident then he will be deemed responsible for causing it even if he were nowhere near at the time.."

I would hope thats not the case, but it may well be..I'm a special needs teacher in Vancouver, and have many students of " India origin" who go there during the school year..a few have reported seeing dying people on the street in the Punjab, and noone helps.."Why not.. I asked them?".. they always say what you said..the helper will be blamed... a sad situation that..

[Fishenough]

It is an established fact that in this country if a farang stops at a roadside accident then he will be deemed responsible for causing it even if he were nowhere near at the time. In the UK if I saw someone needing help I wouldnt think twice about stopping, but here in Thailand no way, and believe me it is truly hard to drive on by but the Thai's have brought it on themselves by their false claims.

Could you post information concerning these facts? Is this an example of; set ups, bad timing and a bad person, or select reported incidents in the busier areas of Pattaya, Bangkok, etc?

Having stopped at two motorcycle accidents, and hearing a recent story from a friends assistance to a car/truck accident near Fang, never for a second thought any chance of false claims could occur from these events. Just many thank you's returned. Each was a case of a recent accident, accident cause fairly apparent, it had already happened, and with deciding that assistance may be needed and parking a safe distance away.

Common sense and not an emotional response should be your deciding factor on providing assistance; and that includes where you are are and what could happen. But if the facts say otherwise.

Edit - 18 years ago, on a bicycle tour, in India stopped to help an elder lady repair a bike tube. Local 'helpers' stopped to make sure that I paid for her tire, got away only paying $2 us, but was told I had to buy the lady a new wheel. Was crazy at first, five young large Canadians and 2 small local man making sure we felt threaten to pay, but many more people stopped and some got quite loud. One of about twenty reasons why I'll never return to India.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Fishenough

[happylarry]

Could you post information concerning these facts? Is this an example of; set ups, bad timing and a bad person, or select reported incidents in the busier areas of Pattaya, Bangkok, etc?

No I cant state facts, like newspaper articles or the like, but having lived here for six years now and talking to friends etc and hearing of instances that have happened I have built up an educated opinion of this unfortunate state of affairs.

Obviously there is always a case that is the opposite to the norm but for instance....between Chaweng and Lamai on the island of Samui there is a cliff road with some really bad bends. Many accidents occur there. I had a friend who was returning from a night out and he came across a Thai motorcyclist laying flat out after crashing his bike. He stopped to help as this is very dark and no buildings anywhere near. When some more Thai people turned up and eventually the police, he got blamed for the crash. What could he do with no witnesses, they took him for a few thousand that night and he only wanted to help.

Maybe the people are different inland but on a tourist island where most Thai people have gone purposely to live off the ferang money you simply cant trust anyone.

Your good intentions are ignored when they think of those banknotes, and if you still want to be good samaritan then so be it mate but you have been warned.

HL

[GuestHouse]

Ah... Established Bar Stool Hearsay

[barky]

It may very well be hearsay GH, but there are a lot of westeners "here saying" it. Where there's smoke.....

And whilst I agree that Thailand draws a lot of low-life aliens to its shores, there are fortunately, many westeners that arrive here, and believe it or not, are not running from the law as you would have many of us believe.

I tend to agree with both Happy Larry and Eek, as one the one hand , I would like to belive that my instict to help someone in genuine need and distress would not come back to bight me in the proverbial ar*e. However, as some people like to keep reminding me, we are guests here ( a notion I reject for many reasons) and we come right down the bottom in the pecking order , depending on how deep your pockets are.

Therefore, in the main , it would be foolhardy to stick your nose in, especially if the situation regarded Thais.

Edited December 2, 2009 by barky

[dumbnewbie]

Wow - what a depressing thread, especially when many feel the situation is the same in US, Canadian, UK etc.

I'm not sure where to ask this, but now I'd like to know some places where this is NOT the situation, i.e., places where if you were being attacked or lying on the pavement people would come to help you?

[cognos]

Wow - what a depressing thread, especially when many feel the situation is the same in US, Canadian, UK etc.

I'm not sure where to ask this, but now I'd like to know some places where this is NOT the situation, i.e., places where if you were being attacked or lying on the pavement people would come to help you?

probably the smaller the place, the more likely it is to receive assistance from strangers..my friend in Vancouver has MS, fell off his scooter and lay there for quite a while as strangers zipped past, oblivious and/ or uncaring.. in their cosy automobiles.. so much for the Canadians are better perception i used to have..but wait!! I also know a guy from my youth ( he is now a lawyer in vancouver) who rescued a women that was being shot at as he drove by, and she was hit and bleeding profusely.. he stopped his car and pulled her in, despite also being shot at by the gunman..and took her to the hospital..risked his life to save her!! These heroic types are everywhere in small numbers, so take heart my good fellow!!

[Scully]

Goodness there is a lot of rubbish posted on this website, luckily however there are a few posters that know what they are talking about which always makes me read on.

We all know what we would do in certain situations but this needs us to understand exactly what is happening.

The majority of farang don't speak Thai and for this reason and this reason alone prevents most farang from getting involved in anyone else's altercation.

I would only get involved if it was very serious (ie causing personal injury) otherwise I couldn't possibly intervine.

[Fishenough]

No I cant state facts, like newspaper articles or the like, but having lived here for six years now and talking to friends etc and hearing of instances that have happened I have built up an educated opinion of this unfortunate state of affairs.

Obviously there is always a case that is the opposite to the norm but for instance....between Chaweng and Lamai on the island of Samui there is a cliff road with some really bad bends. Many accidents occur there. I had a friend who was returning from a night out and he came across a Thai motorcyclist laying flat out after crashing his bike. He stopped to help as this is very dark and no buildings anywhere near. When some more Thai people turned up and eventually the police, he got blamed for the crash. What could he do with no witnesses, they took him for a few thousand that night and he only wanted to help.

Maybe the people are different inland but on a tourist island where most Thai people have gone purposely to live off the ferang money you simply cant trust anyone.

Your good intentions are ignored when they think of those banknotes, and if you still want to be good samaritan then so be it mate but you have been warned.

HL

Bad situation to come across, I'll be honest because if I found myself in that same situation as your friend where location and being alone would tell my brain not to stop though my gut would tell me differently. Always follow your brain.

[easyride]

I was in my favourite open air bar last night when a Thai boy sat next to me and started chatting. Moments later a couple of police leapt off thier bikes and started slapping the lad about. Why? How should I know but my beer nearly got knocked over. They ignored me and I ignored them.

Handcuffed he was eventually driven away in a police van and I was left to continue my enjoyment. I love Thailand.

If you were any kind of a man, you would have stood up and thrashed them all.

Had I thought I'd have invited them back to thrash me......................

[robblok]

Ah... Established Bar Stool Hearsay

Recently in an accident myself.. i got hit by a truck when on my bike.. i was responsible (i admit it even though the truck was going fast and hit me from behind). But that truck got hit by 2 other cars and i was only blamed for the truck.. police told the other drivers they should have held more distance. I can only say during the whole procedure i was treated with respect and fairness. I have reviewed my opinion of thai police not all are bad and not all are after ripping of farang. The thai guy who hit me was worried about me and even helped me move my bike from the police station on his truck.

I really wonder sometimes if all the other farangs live in the same Thailand as i do. I live outside the tourist area's btw.

And i just quoted you because i agree with you.

[GuestHouse]

It's good to hear Robblok, too many bar stool pundits putting out this idea that Thais and the Thai police are out to rip them off if they get involved in an accident (even as a passer by).

I suspect having established the only meaningful interactions they have with Thai people (fleeting as those may be) on the basis of a financial transaction, they extrapolate this to the population at large.

[happylarry]

quote from myself... Maybe the people are different inland but on a tourist island where most Thai people have gone purposely to live off the

ferang money you simply cant trust anyone.

quote from robblok.. I really wonder sometimes if all the other farangs live in the same Thailand as i do. I live outside the tourist area's btw.

In my post I made allowances for the fact that I am unaware of the reactions of people in areas I dont know, but you have stated that you dont live in a tourist area and yet have made no allowance at all for the different type of person that lives there.

In Samui there has been non stop building for years and the island has been inundated with workers from all over Thailand but mainly from Isaan, as well as this there are the people that go there to work the beaches, bars and just sit at home while their wives/gfriends earn the money any way they can.

There is one thing that associates these people and that is they have all gone to the island for one thing...ferang money.

The Taxi's rip you off, the buses rip you off, the beach sellers rip you off, jet ski operators etc etc. Also the shops have ferang prices and thai prices.

Anyway the point is the islands population is mostly money orientated and, I imagine is different from non tourist areas, which is why I made that statement in my quote above.

As for guesthouse's uncalled for insinuations.....I just feel sorry for the man, if in an interesting debate, all he can do is start downing other people for giving their honest opinions. Oh and by the way....there is more to life than sitting on a bar stool...you want to get out and try it sometime.

HL

[RubbaJohnny]

I was in my favourite open air bar last night when a Thai boy sat next to me and started chatting. Moments later a couple of police leapt off thier bikes and started slapping the lad about. Why? How should I know but my beer nearly got knocked over. They ignored me and I ignored them.

Handcuffed he was eventually driven away in a police van and I was left to continue my enjoyment. I love Thailand.

If you were any kind of a man, you would have stood up and thrashed them all.

Perhaps he didn't have a

Truncheon Voucher !

[kensingto]

"อย่าเสือก" should apply to the headline if written in Thai.