Doing It The Hard Way...

[StreetCowboy]

Yeterday I decided to stop drinking, for a host of reasons

1. Work

2. Money

3. Driving (I suppose that's 1)

4. I need to get my apartment sorted out.

Anyway, that lasted until I phoned a friend about a rugby competition we're going to watch, and I persuaded him to join me for a quit pint, which ended at about 2 or 3 am.

So I agreed to drive to the rugby, which will be a bit of a challenge, but I reckon its the only way that I'll be able to remember tomorrow evening; if I start drinking in the morning, no matter how slowly I start, I'll be steaming drunk when the rugby finishes and there's no chance that I'd go home then...

So if I drive, then I'll be able to resist temptation to even have one beer. I mean, what would be the point? If its not enough to make you unfit to drive, you might as well be drinking coke.

I'll let you know after the weekend how I got on...

Actually, the mere thought of going home to an empty flat gives me a thirst... the old "quiet pint and home by midnight" thirst that ends up in a strange short-time hotel in a back soi you're not familiar with...

SC

[ThaiPauly]

If as you say you drink in the morning ,do you think you have a problem with alcohol?

Only you have not listed your health as a reason to stop.

[gerryBScot]

StreetCowboy as a recovering alcoholic and AA member I think few of us ever wake up in the morning and think I better quit drinking because it is not really good for me. There is no logical explanation for how we drink and the things we do when drinking, and we rarely make a logical, rational decision to quit and stick to it. We may quit short term until some trivial reason pops up and we find ourselves drunk somewhere we didn't quite intend to be...... And I did this thousands of time. Stopped and then started. It never got better, I never learned to drink like a gentleman...... and I don't know anything about you but I reckon it is not going to get any better for you. AA has worked for me and I would suggest you check it out if you haven't already done so.

[bizzniz]

I stopped drinking for about tree yers ago, I gone to a 6 week 12 steps course for free here in Sweden

I drank 1-2 litre vodka evry day, so it whas time to stop.

And I do not have taste any alcohol seen that day i stopped. After 35 yers drinking

I whas told to go at AA, and i did for short time, but i dont like that, so do not go ther anymore.

[StreetCowboy]

StreetCowboy as a recovering alcoholic and AA member I think few of us ever wake up in the morning and think I better quit drinking because it is not really good for me. There is no logical explanation for how we drink and the things we do when drinking, and we rarely make a logical, rational decision to quit and stick to it. We may quit short term until some trivial reason pops up and we find ourselves drunk somewhere we didn't quite intend to be...... And I did this thousands of time. Stopped and then started. It never got better, I never learned to drink like a gentleman...... and I don't know anything about you but I reckon it is not going to get any better for you. AA has worked for me and I would suggest you check it out if you haven't already done so.

I know this is the wrong answer but...

The weekend went pretty well, all things considered. I didn't really feel I was missing out on the first day of the tournament when I was driving; I didn't have a single beer, as that would just give me a thirst. I volunteered to drive the second day as well, but a colleague drove instead. We went for a few beers when we got back to town, but quite quiet, and I resisted temptation to go for a quiet one on my own on the way home - as I was still sober enough to remember how that would end...

We kept the beer to two dozen tins between two of us, less a few that we gave away, and I remember the whole day, including falling asleep during the ladies' final.. but I didn't miss a minute of the four main men's finals, either through queueing at the bar, or going for a piss, or nodding off; and then when we got back to town, we all went our separate ways straight home... again, sober enough to remember how it might end if I stopped for 'one for the road'.

I still spent more than I could afford, though. But at least I woke up fit to drive to work for 8 in the morning...

I know that's the wrong answer, because this weekend's experience probably won't help me next time. Its not about drinking safely once, or not getting into trouble for a few months... and maybe if I'd had one more beer each night, I'd have made a different decision when it was time to go home.

For Thaipauly: To clarify, I don't drink in the morning, and although I enjoy an afternoon binge, its not something I can often accomodate - and given the consequences for the evening and night and next day, something I try to avoid. But at the rugby, you're sat in the hot winter sun (from 09.20 in this case) and you can start as early as you want (actually I thibnk maybe the beer stands were all closed when we arrived before 9, but anyway... I'd thought of trying to delay the first beer till the long intermission at 2.30, but instead, we bought the first box of beer at just after noon....

I'm sorry this post won't provide much encouragement to anyone else, but I suppose what I'd like to say is "If you want to stop, don't let the good times put you off...there's plenty more bad times to come." I think I would have enjoyed the second day just as much without drinking, I'd have got home with a thousand baht more in my pocket (in local currency) - although I would probably still have been licking my lips with thirst walking past the pubs and nightclubs on the way home. BUt certainly, the first beer is easier to resist than the last.

Thanks for your patience...

SC

[gerryBScot]

Cowboy that's exactly how I remember it. Horrible now with the benefit of hindsight and a little sobriety. Desperately trying to control it. I hated functions where heavy drinking was expected, like weddings with a free bar or the cricket club dinner or tour. I was really exposed in those situations to getting completely out of hand and being "discovered"! I wasn't a jolly drunk! Of course it was a lot safer just taking the supplies to bed and drinking myself unconscious.... which was my preferred option at the end. I used to think things like , well I wasn't too bad, when I went out and survived it without making the proverbial puddendum of myself but inevitably there was an out of control bender just round the corner. And that was one of the things I learned early on in sobriety, that when I drank I couldn't predict what would happen, like where I might end up, what I might do etc .... invariably I did stuff I wouldn't have done if sober.And I worked all my drinking life and Sundays were critical days in stopping at the right time so I would be sober enough to get up and get to work Monday morning. I used to think I could control it, of course the opposite was the case, it really controlled me. I am grateful to you for the reminder of what it used to be like.

[PhilHarries]

What you have to understand is that it all works different for different people. Some love the cosy isolation of the AA way but many prefer to live a life.

What I did was to set a minimum number of drink free days I'd do during the year, produce a simple spreadsheet with embedded graph and go for it. As long as you beat the target you are doing well and you can allow yourself a night or two on the piss as a reward.

Follow the AA route and you automatically assign yourself as a failure, a sick person, one that cannot be allowed to run his own life.

You are better than that, take control of your own life and do not allow lower life beings to run it for you. Make a plan and stick to it, or better still beat it for in beating it you are beating those AA losers.

First step, look yourself in the mirror and say "I am not an alcoholic", the get your drinking under control. Do NOT allow others to run your life unless you hit rock bottom. Even then I would say that the individual, given the inspiration, beats organised repression every time.

<edit : typo>

Edited December 6, 2009 by PhilHarries

[StreetCowboy]

What you have to understand is that it all works different for different people. Some love the cosy isolation of the AA way but many prefer to live a life.

What I did was to set a minimum number of drink free days I'd do during the year, produce a simple spreadsheet with embedded graph and go for it. As long as you beat the target you are doing well and you can allow yourself a night or two on the piss as a reward.

Follow the AA route and you automatically assign yourself as a failure, a sick person, one that cannot be allowed to run his own life.

You are better than that, take control of your own life and do not allow lower life beings to run it for you. Make a plan and stick to it, or better still beat it for in beating it you are beating those AA losers.

First step, look yourself in the mirror and say "I am not an alcoholic", the get your drinking under control. Do NOT allow others to run your life unless you hit rock bottom. Even then I would say that the individual, given the inspiration, beats organised repression every time.

<edit : typo>

I suppose drinking too much is not my problem - its a symptom or a consequence of being unable to stop drinking when I am half-pissed or more. And then, unable to stop, I continue... I've actually got no idea how I stop in those circumstances (since I am not there to see it, so to speak). I assume I fall asleep, half-wake up and get home (or wherever) on auto-pilot. And I don't think that being dry for a week or a fortnight or a month before a night on the piss makes that any less likely.

Anyway, I've no firm plans for tonight, but let's hope that whatever they are, I'm fit for work with some notes left in my wallet in the morning...

SC

[gerryBScot]

Cowboy there are many ways to do it. If I had taken the approach the previous poster is endorsing I would be dead! I reckon my UK physician and cardiologist would agree with me. My problem was binging, almighty blitzkreig drinking sprees. I am also the type of alcoholic who used to get cases of red wine delivered because apparently a little glass or two is good for the heart, two or three bottles at a time with a brandy chasers....well a bottle by the bedside! You can't mix the grape and the grain!!! I tried for long enough to control it and all I ever achieved was letting it control me. A few drinks is beyond me, one is too many and 20 is not enough! Yup I am a loser! I am happy with not drinking one day at a time. That works well for me. However I love the idea of a spreadsheet! I would concede that AA can be a tough place at times but my experience of it is profoundly different to that described by the above. It works fine for me and countless others.

[ThaiPauly]

Wow !!! You work out your boozing on a speadsheet Phil, amazing.

I would really HATE to have to put myself through THAT.

Controled drinking for the alcoholic in denial just DOES NOT WORK and how sad one's life must be ...waiting for that NEXT drink

A sad sad story

I know a lot of AA "failures" that have not drunk in years would love your methods, not to mention your theory highly amusing..or just plain stupid

But apart from that it irks me that the OP may take you seriously ....how do YOU know "he is better than that"??

You don't know him peronally do you?... he may well be a "blossoming alcoholic"...your sort of advice could see him damage himself beyond repair.

Best keep your ridiculous theories on "control drinking" to yourself mate

[StreetCowboy]

Wow !!! You work out your boozing on a speadsheet Phil, amazing.

I would really HATE to have to put myself through THAT.

Controled drinking for the alcoholic in denial just DOES NOT WORK and how sad one's life must be ...waiting for that NEXT drink

A sad sad story

I know a lot of AA "failures" that have not drunk in years would love your methods, not to mention your theory highly amusing..or just plain stupid

But apart from that it irks me that the OP may take you seriously ....how do YOU know "he is better than that"??

You don't know him peronally do you?... he may well be a "blossoming alcoholic"...your sort of advice could see him damage himself beyond repair.

Best keep your ridiculous theories on "control drinking" to yourself mate

(blank lines deleted in quote)

I think you're being a bit unkind...

I'm not sure how much of PH's post was meant as a wind-up to the AA chaps, but I think until someone has tried every method to control their drinking, they won't really understand the extent of their problem.

Since leaving BKK, I've stopped going to AA meetings, or rather not got round to going back; to be honest, I found it much easier not to drink in Thailand, because if you were out boozing with your friends you could go to a go-go bar or a food court where there was something else to do than swill beer down your throat.

Anyway, for Phil's benefit, the AA fellas I met in Thailand were a pretty entertaining bunch, not so different from the guys you meet in the pub. I would hope Phil's rant won't put anyone off going to AA, nor any experience they might have of "safe drinking" - if you're prone to disasters when you drink, then not having a mishap is not safe, its lucky...

SC

[StreetCowboy]

8>< SNIP ><8

....

- if you're prone to disasters when you drink, then not having a mishap is not safe, its lucky...

SC

Well, after a pretty good weekend last weekend at the rugby, the wheels came off the wegon in the following week. So I'm off the drink this week until my wife and kids arrive for Christmas, and that'll tide me dry through to new year; then I'll probably try again to find the AA meetings here... desperate times, desperate measures...

SC

[philo]

Good luck to you, StreetCowboy.

After my relapse after the hospital detox and 32 days sober, I managed 8 days on my own. But now I am soon ready for the hospital again.

A f'ed up brain and alcohol is a recipe for disaster.

philo

(sober now, but for how long?)

[StreetCowboy]

Good luck to you, StreetCowboy.

After my relapse after the hospital detox and 32 days sober, I managed 8 days on my own. But now I am soon ready for the hospital again.

A f'ed up brain and alcohol is a recipe for disaster.

philo

(sober now, but for how long?)

I'm glad to see you back! I feel much the better for a few days off the drink now - since Friday night / Saturday morning, and I feel happy and confident I can last till the family get here, and then through their visit. And after that, well that's the new year...

At least now you know you can do without a drink; the challenge I suppose is to see how often you can do without a drink! Are you drinking less now than before your dry spell?

As a friend of mine said before he went back to the UK - I'm going to try to cut down to binge drinking once a week...

SC

[StreetCowboy]

I hope everyone is well

Philo - how are you doing?

LivinginExile - not seen you for a while - you OK?

THis is my last night before the family arrive, and I've lasted five nights without a drink - probably the longest since i left Thailand.

I'm lucky I've been working such long hours, but still, when I'm doing my late night shopping, I often think "I quite fancy a quiet relaxing pint in Barrels; no the Music Box would be more entertaining, and I could chat to the Chinese girls..." - luckily I realise where that would lead, and realise its the beer talking...

I wonder how much of what I enjoy in the pub - the music, the chat, the girls - is just a sub-conscious association with drink, and when I think about nipping back to my old local to see how the lads are getting on, its just the drink trying to persuade me to lift up a glass?

Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year when it comes

SC

[Neeranam]

What you have to understand is that it all works different for different people. Some love the cosy isolation of the AA way but many prefer to live a life.

What I did was to set a minimum number of drink free days I'd do during the year, produce a simple spreadsheet with embedded graph and go for it. As long as you beat the target you are doing well and you can allow yourself a night or two on the piss as a reward.

Follow the AA route and you automatically assign yourself as a failure, a sick person, one that cannot be allowed to run his own life.

You are better than that, take control of your own life and do not allow lower life beings to run it for you. Make a plan and stick to it, or better still beat it for in beating it you are beating those AA losers.

First step, look yourself in the mirror and say "I am not an alcoholic", the get your drinking under control. Do NOT allow others to run your life unless you hit rock bottom. Even then I would say that the individual, given the inspiration, beats organised repression every time.

<edit : typo>

How irresponsible Phil. Maybe the OP is an alcoholic.

What you don't seem to understand is that there is a big difference between a heavy drinker stopping drinking and an alcoholic.

I could draw a spreadsheet with a graph to reduce the number of tubs of ice-cream I eat but certainly not alcohol. I am addicted to alcohol but not ice-cream.

You are better than that, take control of your own life and do not allow lower life beings to run it for you.

What on earth is this supposed to mean?

So you are not an alcoholic and have managed to control your drinking - whoopdee fking doo - I hope you are pround of yourself.

[StreetCowboy]

What you have to understand is that it all works different for different people. Some love the cosy isolation of the AA way but many prefer to live a life.

What I did was to set a minimum number of drink free days I'd do during the year, produce a simple spreadsheet with embedded graph and go for it. As long as you beat the target you are doing well and you can allow yourself a night or two on the piss as a reward.

Follow the AA route and you automatically assign yourself as a failure, a sick person, one that cannot be allowed to run his own life.

You are better than that, take control of your own life and do not allow lower life beings to run it for you. Make a plan and stick to it, or better still beat it for in beating it you are beating those AA losers.

First step, look yourself in the mirror and say "I am not an alcoholic", the get your drinking under control. Do NOT allow others to run your life unless you hit rock bottom. Even then I would say that the individual, given the inspiration, beats organised repression every time.

<edit : typo>

How irresponsible Phil. Maybe the OP is an alcoholic.

What you don't seem to understand is that there is a big difference between a heavy drinker stopping drinking and an alcoholic.

I could draw a spreadsheet with a graph to reduce the number of tubs of ice-cream I eat but certainly not alcohol. I am addicted to alcohol but not ice-cream.

You are better than that, take control of your own life and do not allow lower life beings to run it for you.

What on earth is this supposed to mean?

So you are not an alcoholic and have managed to control your drinking - whoopdee fking doo - I hope you are pround of yourself.

Its almost enough to put you off trying to give constructive advice, eh Phil?...

Although I suppose I should remember that its not just me that might take Phil's advice - there could be lots of others silently reading this thread who might think "tht's a good idea..."

And I think Phil's spreadsheet is a good idea; I have a lot of friends who would probably be surprised at how much they drank when thery started to fill in the spreadsheets, and might decide to cut down a bit, and improve their health and so forth. This forum is for them as well as for alcoholics.

And for the alcoholics, so long as they are willing to try anything to keep drinking, then clear, simple systems like Phil's should make it easy for them to understand, after trying it for a while, that nothing is going to work. And then they can decide whether they want to drink, or not drink, and better understand the consequences of that decision. Phil's suggestion is no good for someone that wants to not drink.

The family arrived this morning, so that should help me stay dry. A dry Christmas - who'd have thought it! Probably Hogmanay too...

SC

[philo]

Hi SC.

I am not an Xmas man, but I wish you and your family the best of (dry) luck for the rest of the year (life).

I am not dry, but most of the cravings are gone. No more drinking in the morning, and I stop after a few beers in the afternoon. Bedtime 8PM, up 4AM so I can get my coffee, a youghurt and the first dose of vitamins for the day - and a little bit of time for myself before the first child wakes up 5-6 AM. The second one wakes up around 6-7 AM, and then we play on the floor until my wife comes out of the bedroom 8AM. Not a perfect life, but better than before (the first can 2-5AM and continously drinking till late PM).

I haven't forgotten though how sick I was before I went to the hospital. So I will soon go back to CM and lock myself up for a week to get it kickstarted again.

In a good mood though, and with some hope that I will manage it sooner or later.

Best of luck to all fellow heavy drinkers and alkies.

philo

[cognos]

AA states that you need to say that you are "powerless" over alcohol..and this may indeed be true for many "problem drinkers". For many others, however, they do, can and will have the power over alcohol, like me.

i used to drink 6 to 8 beers 3 to 5 times a week for years, and just stopped Oct 2. I have had no cravings. The bottom line to me is you NEED a good reason to quit, a REAL good reason. For me it was the potentiality of losing my wife. She threatened to go back to Thailand (from here in Canada), and it blew me away sufficiently to quit. But for me, i smoked pot as well, and the 2 went hand in hand. She didn't mind me drinking, but hated the (smell of ) smoking, so I just quit both. My modus operandi was to have 3,4 beer, smoke some, and then have 3, 4 more beer, eat, tired, go to bed, wake up feeling a little or a lot shiiiity.

The success rate of AA is low, like 3-5% ( please correct me if i am wrong ) , but it WORKS for certain personality types, so Phil should not call them losers. For those who find AA works, it is their ROCK, and their life will and should revolve around it.

For every AA success story, there are countless others who quit on their own. Some are dry drunks, and some revert back to the happy mindset of their days prior to drinking. For the former, they have not been able to get over the hump for a myriad of reasons. For the latter, they do get over the hump for a myriad of reasons.. attitude = altitude for one reason, and they get that.I did not like getting drunk, just a good buzz, but now i get a better buzz being straight.

If you are drinking and unhappy, you will stop when you reach your version of rock bottom. You will use AA, or not, but you will quit. The main thing is that being a dry drunk is better than nothing, but the ideal scenario is to come full circle, to the place you used to be at prior to your drinking days, called peace of mind.

God bless you in your attempts to quit. You can do it if you want. PM me if you need support. I listen and care. Sincerely, Cognos

[Neeranam]

The main thing is that being a dry drunk is better than nothing, but the ideal scenario is to come full circle, to the place you used to be at prior to your drinking days, called peace of mind.

How very true.

You talk about AA - I think a big problem is that many non-alcoholics are forced to go to it, especially through the US court system. It is not for non-alcoholics.

To the OP - all the best at quitting or cutting down and have a great drink-free Christmas.

[gerryBScot]

To all posters on here and readers, I hope you and your loved ones have a great Christmas and New Year. For those trying to stop, not sure or struggling it is my experience, that January is a deadly time for drunks. Many of us get through the festive season and head out early January for further research. Keep posting, keep connected, don't give up giving up. Chok dee

[cognos]

its hard to listen to those "reformed" ones like me who have quit,but there is something funny about being straight and sober..you remember that, right?? in your early years..the innocent, happy years..its called being alive, so BE ALIVE..your urges come down to eating, sleeping..sex..reading..sports..cooking..walking..just normal stuff..forget the huge mood swings..the highs and lows of self medication..keep an even keel.

..no more cravings, counting drinks, counting days, counting hours..just LIVING with peace of mind

[StreetCowboy]

...

..no more cravings, counting drinks, counting days, counting hours..just LIVING with peace of mind

For Philo: Great to hear from you, that you are keeping well; or at least better...

Thanks for all the encouragement. I've stopped drinking many times before - sometimes twice in the same week. I'd never really appreciated the cravings for what they were. All the things I associate with a good night in the pub are just a ventriloquist's dummy so the beer can talk you in to going on a bender...

I had to go out to the internet cafe to do some work this evening, and I thought - 'my wife wouldn't miss me if I stopped for a pint on the way back...'; but I need to remember I don't drink for the sake of one pint.

Anyway, so far, so good; that was a week at 3 am this morning,

SC

[cognos]

for many folks who develop a drinking problem..really the only satisfying drink of the first pint is the FIRST gulp..and from there its a chilling and very forgettable slippery slope down a frigid,bumpy, icy slope to never never land.. would you not agree? Why put yourself through the ringer again and again for one piddling "satisfying gulp"? Why F up an otherwise good night for a few seconds of so- called pleasure..less than an orgasm's time in duration..Keep up the good work

[StreetCowboy]

for many folks who develop a drinking problem..really the only satisfying drink of the first pint is the FIRST gulp..and from there its a chilling and very forgettable slippery slope down a frigid,bumpy, icy slope to never never land.. would you not agree? ...

To be honest, no; not yet, anyway.

I suppose one of the biggest obstacles I have is that I can rarely remember a bad night's drinking, and even on the worst nights, I can remember the good bits..

BUt what I keep trying to remind myself of now, is how easy it is (more like, difficult not to...) have 'one for the road' on the way home that ends in disaster.

I suppose a good anecdotal reminder of that - I was visiting Hong Kong with work and I went with a colleague for a few beers - probably four. After, he went home, and I went back to my hotel, and found it very difficult indeed to stay in the hotel room and go to bed; the hotel was in the middle of Wan Chai, and I knew, if I stepped out the door, I'd drink myself to oblivion, spend a fortune and end up who knows where?

But I really enjoyed the four pints, and the evening's conversation...

As an acquaintance once said - if I could drink sensibly, I'd be out there all night every night.

Another reason that I try not to drink - sooner or later, it will kill me. If I don't drink tonight or tomorrow, it will be later. If I stay off drink long enough and often enough, I might die of something else before it kills me. Morbid stuff - my apologies.

Anyway, Merry Christmas one and all

SC

[cognos]

you are right..drinkers cannot be put into a cookie cutter solution.. my apologies.. each one that finds a solution will generally do it on their terms..THEIR WAY

[StreetCowboy]

Two weeks dry tonight - in fact, since the rain we had here when it tipped down for three days solid, coincidentally.

I'm not sure how I'll manage when the family go back to Bangkok in the New Year. I've set myself the target of staying dry til the beginning of February, then I'll have a rethink with a sober perspective...

Happy Mew Year to one and all when it comes, and best wishes for health, wealth and happiness

SC

[cognos]

why not just stay dry permanently? You can go out in the heavy rain, and you can drink, or you can stay dry on both accounts. You WILL succeed if you WANT to, so God bless you

Sincerely, Dean signed: up 2 UUUUUUUU

[473geo]

Ok i,ve been through quite a lot of the drinking issues which I see described.........now I know what I am about to say may be dangerous for some........

I personally believe, that as far as drink goes, you must know your weaknesses and your limits, and what takes you there.........

I used to be that person who went out and was always last to leave the drinking den, at this time of year more so than ever.....

but......and here is the bit a lot of people will dislike.......

I decided to strictly control my drinking........not abstain all together......you see I firmly believe that if I have the will power to stop all together, then I can and will control my drinking.....I have learnt that this ability to control starts to fade after 2 pints, so that is my limit, if and when I do drink, which is actually very infrequently. During the last few years I have had only the occasional lapses had 3 or 4 pints and not actually got drunk......just had a little more than I feel is good for me....but these times have given me both the stark reminder that I can easily overstep the mark.....and the confidence that on the occasions where I have erred I have retained an element of control.........I must add however it is a long time since I ever had a craving for alcohol.....it seems to have left me......perhaps my life is good without it?........and my wife would not tolerate me drinking to excess, so that, if you are looking for a motive is a good one!!

Now I fully realise I run a risk.......and that my approach will not suit all.......and maybe even dangerous for some........but it is working for me.....the reason I relate my tale is that I used to smoke.......I haven't lost the craving or stopped......I have just chosen not have a cigarrette for 10 years or so!!

Festive wishes to all.....good health for 2010...

[StreetCowboy]

8><---SNIP----><8

I decided to strictly control my drinking........not abstain all together......you see I firmly believe that if I have the will power to stop all together, then I can and will control my drinking.....I have learnt that this ability to control starts to fade after 2 pints, so that is my limit, if and when I do drink, which is actually very infrequently. During the last few years I have had only the occasional lapses had 3 or 4 pints and not actually got drunk......just had a little more than I feel is good for me....but these times have given me both the stark reminder that I can easily overstep the mark.....and the confidence that on the occasions where I have erred I have retained an element of control.........I must add however it is a long time since I ever had a craving for alcohol.....it seems to have left me......perhaps my life is good without it?........and my wife would not tolerate me drinking to excess, so that, if you are looking for a motive is a good one!!

8><---SNIP----><8

I'm not sure that I see any point in only having two pints. And besides, three pints isn't that much more... At least zero and one are quite clearly absolutely different.

I've found in the past that sometimes when I set out to only have one or two pints, something crops up - a friend comes in to the bar, or a game of rugby that I want to see comes on TV or whatever, and sometimes it ends in tears, sometimes it doesn't. If I'm drinking coke, or orange juice (or going wild and mixing my drinks) then regardless of what I stay on for, there's no problem.

Anyway, it'll be three weeks for me by the time the family leave. I'll need to form a plan then - it helps that I'm a bit short of money this month - a lot of commitments have come up at the same time, so a bit more discipline won't go amiss..

Wishing you a very happy hogmanay and all the best for the new year

SC