Tourist Visa To Retirement Conversion

[thaiphoon]

Good result. Chonburi immigration is one of the exceptions where you can do the conversion process; most immigration offices will simply direct the applicant to Bangkok for processing.

Woha hang on there, you can do it hassle free in the Phuket Immigration Office, been doing it for 5 years now.

If you re-read my post you will see that I said Chonburi was one of the exceptions, not the only exception. Not sure I understand why you would regularly be going through the conversion process. Do you mean extending your permission to stay each year for the last 5 years?

[tropo]

Retirement is 800,000 in bank account or 65,000 per month income or combination to meet 800,000.

Marriage is 400,000 in bank account or 40,000 per month.

First application money in bank 2 months - other applications 3 months.

What is the income requirement if you have a dependent spouse?

[beechguy]

Retirement is 800,000 in bank account or 65,000 per month income or combination to meet 800,000.

Marriage is 400,000 in bank account or 40,000 per month.

First application money in bank 2 months - other applications 3 months.

What is the income requirement if you have a dependent spouse?

It remains the same.

[lopburi3]

Foreign spouse is the same requirement as not having foreign spouse. But once one has a retirement extension of stay the other can obtain a matching stay without income requirement as dependent. If they want a real retirement extension of stay they would also have to meet the normal requirements; in there name.

[tropo]

Foreign spouse is the same requirement as not having foreign spouse. But once one has a retirement extension of stay the other can obtain a matching stay without income requirement as dependent.

Can they not apply for retirement extension of stay at the same time?

[lopburi3]

As long as both meet the financial requirement on there own they can.

If one is going to use the dependent method that can only be issued after the spouse has his extension of stay and requires a non immigrant visa entry. If have the visa they should be able to do same say (although might be told to return with less than 30 days remaining if just entered) - if not the dependent takes copy of marriage proof and spouse passport with extension of stay to a Consulate to obtain single entry non immigrant O visa and 60 days later applies for the dependent extension.

[tigerbalm]

Your quote is very confusing as no indication it is a quote.

1. You want a one year extension of stay for retirement - not an OA visa.

2. You can obtain a non immigrant O visa from a Consulate outside Thailand or change a tourist visa or visa exempt entry inside Thailand (extra cost of 2,000 baht and must be done with 21 days or more remaining on permitted to stay time.

Thanks for the (As ever) helpful info, I was hoping you or Lite Beer would reply.

I paid a visit to the local immigration today and they handed me a form to convert my tourist visa to a Non O, i can subsequently then apply for the Non O/A

Ps I agree the quote was a bit misleading but there was no quote button at the bottom of the original posters posting for me to use, so i had to resort to copy and paste

Regards

TB

[lopburi3]

With that method you just highlight the text and click on the quote icon at top of message to put it into quotes.

What you will be doing is extending your non immigrant visa entry for reason of retirement. It is not called OA or visa. It will be a one year extension of stay using a TM.7 form and paying 1,900 baht.

[tropo]

As long as both meet the financial requirement on there own they can.

If one is going to use the dependent method that can only be issued after the spouse has his extension of stay and requires a non immigrant visa entry. If have the visa they should be able to do same say (although might be told to return with less than 30 days remaining if just entered) - if not the dependent takes copy of marriage proof and spouse passport with extension of stay to a Consulate to obtain single entry non immigrant O visa and 60 days later applies for the dependent extension.

Thanks Lopburi and sorry for continuing to harp on this point, it's just that I intend to apply for a retirement visa later this year with my dependent Filipino spouse and I want to get it perfectly clear how to go about it.

It's a bit ambiguous to me from what you're written above. Does she definitely have to have the single entry non-O visa in order to get the dependent extension. Can she not get this on a tourist visa?

If not, is it possible that we could both get a single entry non immigrant O visa together somewhere in the region (Laos, Malaysia)?...or is the only way for me to convert my tourist visa and get my retirement extension of stay first and with that my dependent will get a non-O visa from a consulate in the region?

(Is there another thread you're aware of that covers this process in a step by step manner?)

[thaiphoon]

Here are the steps, assuming you meet the requirements (financials 800k/65k):

1a) You obtain single entry Non-O visa from consulate abroad, being over 50. You will receive 90 day permission to stay on entry into the Kingdom, and during the last 30 days of your permission to stay you apply for your extension of stay based on retirement, or

1b) You obtain tourist visa/use visa exempt entry to enter the Kingdom, and with a minimum of 21 days remaining on your permission to stay you go through 2 step process to convert from tourist visa/visa exempt entry to Non-O visa. Then within the last 30 days of the new Non-O permission to stay you apply for your extension of stay based on retirement. There is a fee for the conversion process of 2,000 baht, which is roughly the same as applying for single entry Non-O visa, so many opt for the latter to simplify the process. In addition to papers detailed below you would need to complete Form TM86 to convert a tourist visa to a Non-O visa or Form TM87 to convert a visa exempt entry to a Non-O visa.

(Note: Chonburi immigration - which I think you would be using - is one of a few immigration offices outside Bangkok that handle conversions, and understand they process both stages of the conversion process simultaneously).

2) You will need to take to immigration completed application form TM7, recent passport sized photo, copy of bank passbook/bank letter (if using bank balance option) or embassy letter (if using income option), and copy of passport. A map to you residence might be asked for together with some proof such as rent receipt/lease but that should be all. Fee 1900 baht.

3) When your own extension of stay is in place, your spouse should obtain single entry Non-O visa from consulate abroad using copy of your main passport page, your own extension of stay and marriage certificate. Your spouse will receive 90 day permission to stay on re-entry into the Kingdom, and during the last 30 days of that permission to stay your spouse can apply for her own extension of stay as your dependant. Note your spouse must start the process for her own extension of stay from Non-O visa; conversion from tourist visa/visa exempt entry is not an option for a dependant's extension of stay.

4) Your spouse will need to take to immigration completed application form TM7, recent passport sized photo, marriage certificate, your own extension of stay and copy of passport. Fee 1900 baht.

Remember that if either of you plan to travel abroad during the period of the extensions will need re-entry permit(s) to keep your permission(s) to stay alive. Fee 1,000 baht single entry; 3,800 baht multi entry for each permit. You will also both have to do 90 day reporting if in country for longer than 90 days at a time.

[tropo]

Thanks Thaiphoon, that's cleared up most of the gray areas for me. Just a few more questions:

1. Would my spouse be able to get a single entry Non-O visa from Vientiane, Penang or KL?

2. Once my spouse has her extension of stay granted, what are the follow-up requirements for her to keep it? How does she go about renewing every year? What are her reporting requirements?

[thaiphoon]

1) Yes

2) Your spouse renews her extension of stay each year piggybacking your own extension of stay using the same paperwork as in point 4 of my earlier post

Both of you have to do 90 day reporting, no difference.

[tropo]

Much appreciated Thaiphoon!

Thanks for the step by step guide.

It's a bit of messing around, but it'll be a lot better than trying to stay here on tourist visas.

[thaiphoon]

Treat it as a 'one off' and, apart from 90 day reporting, all you will need to deal with are the annual extensions.

Good luck to you for the future.

[tropo]

Thaiphoon, I have a few more questions for you regarding retirement extension of stay. Rather than PM'ing you privately I thought it maybe useful to other members to have the answers posted up on the forum.

If I convert a tourist visa or 30 day visa exempt entry to a non-O is it possible to apply for the retirement extension of stay earlier than in the last 30 days of that non-O? How strict are they on this?

Another question: If for examle I applied for the retirement extension of stay on the 30th day before my non-O expires, when would the extension start? How long does the process take?

Yet another question: Is it possible for my dependent spouse to get a non-O 90-day visa before I have my retirement extension of stay in place? I'm asking this because if it is possible then we could both get non-O's at the same time and possibly have matching dates on our extension of stays.

[thaiphoon]

1) Normally is within the last 30 days of the 90 day permission to stay obtained following Non-O visa conversion. Believe you will be using Chonburi office, who can process the whole conversion from tourist/visa exempt entry to Non-O visa to extension of stay based on retirement in one go. Understand they hold the passport overnight and you collect the next day. Remember you must have at least 21 days remaining on your permission to stay to do the conversion.

2) Extensions always start from the end of your current permission to stay. So if you applied 30 days before your permission to stay ended, your extension of stay would expire in 13 months time.

3) Unless your spouse qualifies for issue of Non-O visa in her own right, the consulate will want to see a copy of your own extension of stay and marriage certificate to issue her with her Non-O visa. The expiry date of your spouse’s extension of stay, when issued, will match yours irrespective of what date she applies/it is issued.

Edit: Remember once you/your spouse have your extensions of stay in place you will both need to obtain re-entry permits if planning to travel during the period of the extensions to keep permission to stay alive.

[tropo]

Thanks very much Thaiphoon.

[JimGant]

Note your spouse must start the process for her own extension of stay from Non-O visa; conversion from tourist visa/visa exempt entry is not an option for a dependant's extension of stay.

What a bummer. If coming from the US, it's becoming impossible (based on some negative reports, and no positive reports) to get a Non Imm O just for meeting age and pension retirement requirements. So, a farang couple coming to Thailand to retire would need to convert to a Non Imm in Thailand; but if the dependent cannot do so, a trip abroad for a Non Imm O becomes a clumsy necessity.

Other countries *do* have less stringent provisions for issuing Non Imm O visas than the US.....

Thaiphoon, is the dependent non-conversion something that's been reported -- or is there something in the written law that states this? Just wondering is this might be Immigration Office specific.....

[thaiphoon]

Thaiphoon, is the dependent non-conversion something that's been reported -- or is there something in the written law that states this? Just wondering is this might be Immigration Office specific.....

It is written into Police Order 777/2551:

2.20 In the case of a family member of an alien who has been permitted temporary stay under clauses 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.5, 2.6,2.7, 2.10, 2.12, 2.13,2.4, 2.15, 2.16, 2.17, 2.21, 2.22,2.26,6.29 of this Order (applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child ofhis/her spouse):

Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

(2) Proof of family relationship;

(3) In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be de

jure (legitimate) and de facto; or

(4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the family, and must be less than 20 years of age; or

(5) In the case of a parent, the said person shall be 50 years of age or over.

[JimGant]

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

Hmmm. That's the exact wording in Police Order 777/2551 for virtually every situation where someone wants to obtain a one-year extension of stay (for marriage, retirement, work, education, etc.). But, with the relatively recent TM86 and TM87 routes for obtaining Non Imm visas in-country, I see nothing that differentiates a dependent needing a Non Imm from any of these others........ And, on face value, there shouldn't be any difference -- as all these one-year extensions are similar, particularly in that they all need the Non Imm "baseline" from which to issue the one-year extensions. Why one situation would require leaving the country to obtain a Non Imm -- and the others would not (via conversion in-country) -- makes no sense.

However, as we all know, making sense with immigration dictates isn't necessarily the rule.

Any real-life examples of dependents not being able to convert to a Non Imm visa?

[tropo]

Any real-life examples of dependents not being able to convert to a Non Imm visa?

The dependent has to get a non-immigrant visa at a consulate outside of Thailand. They are not converting to a non-immigrant visa but applying for one.

[JimGant]

Any real-life examples of dependents not being able to convert to a Non Imm visa?

The dependent has to get a non-immigrant visa at a consulate outside of Thailand. They are not converting to a non-immigrant visa but applying for one.

Why? Nothing written says this.....

Ok, thaiphoon provided the following quote from Thai law:

It is written into Police Order 777/2551:

2.20 In the case of a family member of an alien who has been permitted temporary stay under clauses 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.5, 2.6,2.7, 2.10, 2.12, 2.13,2.4, 2.15, 2.16, 2.17, 2.21, 2.22,2.26,6.29 of this Order (applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child ofhis/her spouse):

Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

But here's a quote from paragraph 2.22 of the same police order, this paragraph related to the requirements for a retirement extension:

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

(2) The applicant is 50 years of age or over;

(3) Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month; or......

And you'll also see the identical "obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)" for paragraphs related to marriage extensions, skilled workers, studying religion, etc.

My point is: we know, at least for married-to-a-Thai and retirement extensions, that you can receive the necessary Non Imm visa (or at least its equivalent) at Immigration offices within Thailand -- if you meet the criteria for the subsequent extension for married-to-a-Thai or retirement. Why, then, can you NOT get the same treatment if you meet the criteria as a dependent of an alien on extended stay? There's nothing in the law that precludes it....

But it wouldn't surprise me that some, if not all, Immigration offices won't do conversions for dependent extensions. After all, married-to-a-Thai conversions are only done in Bangkok, while retirement conversions are apparently country-wide.

That's why I was looking for specific examples. Maybe just maybe, you might be able to convert the wife's tourist visa, saving a trip out of the country. And maybe, if done at all, it is only in Bangkok....

Barring conclusive evidence it can't be done anywhere, I would think it would be worth a try.

[thaiphoon]

My point is: we know, at least for married-to-a-Thai and retirement extensions, that you can receive the necessary Non Imm visa (or at least its equivalent) at Immigration offices within Thailand -- if you meet the criteria for the subsequent extension for married-to-a-Thai or retirement. Why, then, can you NOT get the same treatment if you meet the criteria as a dependent of an alien on extended stay? There's nothing in the law that precludes it....

The dependent is not following the same criteria for extension of stay as the main applicant. Non-O visa is only obtainable in Thailand as part of the two step process to obtain extension of stay, and as long as the applicant meets the criteria for that extension of stay, financials being 400k/800k or 40k/65k for marriage/retirement respectively. The dependent is not providing any financials, and is effectively getting a 'free ride' off the financials of the main applicant. You are comparing two different situations, and immigration treats the requirements for those different situations differently.

[JimGant]

You are comparing two different situations, and immigration treats the requirements for those different situations differently.

I guess you've seen an example of this, and if that was at Bangkok Immigration, then you would appear to be correct. If it was up-country somewhere, I would say there's still a chance you can do this in Bangkok (based on what we know about conversions related to marriage extensions).

Why? Because the 'sameness' of all the situations, namely: The applicant meets all the requirements for a one-year extension of stay -- except for not having a Non Imm visa. And its just because of these situations that the TM86 and TM87 avenues for in-country Non Imm visas came along. And they don't mention anything about meeting financial requirements.

Proof is in the pudding, however. I just haven't seen any pudding here.

[tropo]

Proof is in the pudding, however. I just haven't seen any pudding here.

I'll be trying this "pudding" in about 6 weeks. I will ask at the Chonburi office if it is possible before I plan my dependents visa run trip to Penang.

Edited March 30, 2010 by tropo

[JimGant]

I'll be trying this "pudding" in about 6 weeks. I will ask at the Chonburi office if it is possible before I plan my dependents visa run trip to Penang.

Good show. If they turn you down, ask if it might be done in Bangkok.