Confusion Over Forum Rules

[bkkmadness]

Wolfie, this is not a topic or the same subject as before and not a discsussion on an individaul moderating issue. I just would like an explanation of "sexually orientated" discussion that is not allowed.

I always took it to mean, not talk about the shag you had last night, or not start mentioning the prices of girls at this bar or another?

Can a mod please give us a clear definition on what is considered sexually orientated discussion please so we have a little clarity on this?

ie. a clear list of what we are allowed to mention and what we are not?

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Edited April 18, 2005 by bkkmadness

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Surprised to see a valid topic relating to a valid topic closed so fast and single handedly by a moderator.

Surely the point of Forum Support is to support the issues and questions that members have when, for example, a thread is stamped out before it has even had a chance - as has hapened twice today.

This is especially wrong in the Forum Support Desk where a topic should only be closed by, preferably, a senior mod or admin after the topic is either resolved or exhausted.

Coming from any other moderator I'd be astounded.

[bkkmadness]

Scamp, Wolfie has PMed me, this will stay open and an admin has been sent to respond, which is appreciated.

The other topic was closed because it discussed individual moderation issues, my mistake I'm afraid.

You shouldn't make this a personal issue between poster and moderator, dealing with moderation issues and moderating posters is a compromise, not a war dude.

My post is not about the closed topics, a post like that will get this closed and Wolfie has already PMed me explaining them. It is about clear explanation of one of the forum rules.

Edited April 18, 2005 by bkkmadness

[taxexile]

You will not use thaivisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy , or otherwise in violation of any law. Posting another members personal details or web site details is forbidden and will result in being banned. Excessive, aggressive posts against other members, moderators and admin; or flaming will not be tolerated. 'Flaming' is best defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, rants, and/or for launching personal attacks, insulting, being hateful, useless criticism, name calling, swearing and other bad behavior or comments meant to incite anger. Religious or racial slurs, rude and degrading comments towards women, or extremely negative views of Thailand will not be tolerated. Discussion of moderation issues, actions or moderation policies concerning individual cases are not allowed in the forums. Such comments should be directed to a moderator or administrator, and not discussed on the forum.

these rules are broken daily , but not all offenders or posts are closed down.

there is almost continual flaming on some topics , religious and racial slurs are common , ( muslims , brits , the french , americans are all singled out due to their nationality or religion ) degrading comments about women are disallowed , but there is no mention of degrading comments about men being disallowed , bar recommendations are allowed in the gay forum but it seems not allowed anywhere else and now a topic deemed to be making negative comments about thailand has not only been closed down but the posts have been deleted.( i didnt read that topic so i dont know what was said) but was surprised to see the whole thing erased.

will there be a thai visa book burning soon ??

lets have some uniformity in action regarding moderation.

then we all know where we stand.

[bkkmadness]

And just briefly checked in the Gay section, 2 pages of brief searching.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29239&st=0

started by a moderator which states the topic is

"For those looking for Gay Go-Go Bars and/or Sauna's.. this post will serve to collect your contributions.. .

Please feel free to contribute, and I will create a Pinned List at the top of the Forum.. no specific ratings, just brief comments from Members"

And another sexually related topic on penis size.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=31581&st=0

Another topic on "Favourite go go bars"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27405

and yet another one on "Beer Bars?, do u like them beter than go gos?"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24951

Mods, can we have a definition of the rules plz coz it's really confusing. Can we discuss sexually related topics in the gay section as it seems to go unnoticed there?

Edited April 18, 2005 by bkkmadness

[Thomas_Merton]

... and now a topic deemed to be making negative comments about thailand has not only been closed down but the posts have been deleted.( i didnt read that topic so i dont know what was said) but was surprised to see the whole thing erased.

will there be a  thai visa book burning soon ??

lets have some uniformity in action regarding moderation.

then we all know where we stand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have been PMed with the reason for this thread closing: some postings referred to the Succession. This is quite clearly against TV rules.

I fully support the deletion of this thread.

[bkkmadness]

Taxexile, the other topic was closed as the Royal family was being discussed which may endanger the whole forum I believe so they have to take a zero tolerance on it. Probably been better just deleting those posts though and leaving a note as to why and let the chat carry on as normal.

[taxexile]

then i appreciate the need for the deletion.

[bkkmadness]

Well, I've seen some admin and mods drop by and Wolfie PMed some admins for me to tell them to come and help us work out the rules, but alas no luck so far. Are the rules that confusing?

I think it shows a reasonable amount of respect to come and answer some members (who donate topics/posts and content to this forum everyday) questions about forum rules, so please respect us and when you drop by, define the rules for us, and explain why they are different between the gay and other sections.

Thanks

[thai_norman]

probably lady men topics should be in the gay section, as they were once men and are attracted to men.

[Khutan]

Guys, the rules have been changed. If you read the forum rules, you will know that discussions of that matter are to be done -----> here <----- That is all.

Continuing to abuse moderators will not change the attitude of admin.

[bkkmadness]

No abuse of moderators here Mattnich.

So should the go go bar discussions in the gay forum be sent there as well?

Why are they not considered sexually orientated?

Just want a clear explaination of the sexually orientated rules that's all.

I don't understand why some thimngs can be discussed in one section of the forum and not the other and I don't understand why penis sizes and best go go bars topics are not considered sexually orientated.

If you could clarify the rules please that would be great.

I see no reason to go to the barladies forum with this topic unless they can explain to me thaivisas rules.

Thanks for your help.

Edited April 18, 2005 by bkkmadness

[bkkmadness]

If the rules are how I think they are, then all the topic urls I posted above, please consider them reported as breaking forum rules and I hope you will devote some moderation time to them.

Thanks

[Ajarn]

Taxexile, the other topic was closed as the Royal family was being discussed which may endanger the whole forum I believe so they have to take a zero tolerance on it. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There have been discussions on the RF that haven't been censored, so it's not a zero tolerence issue, it seems

I agree with some others that the forum rules on flamimg seem to be mostly ignored by mods and admins, even when there are personal threats of physical violence.

I, too, wish for better consistency on these issues...

[bkkmadness]

I think the discussion on the RF was looking a bit negative, in fact some comments that could be construed as negative were involved.

[taxexile]

the gay forum in itself is a forum for discussing topics relating to sexual orientation.

if there is a dedicated forum for discussing matters pertaining to homosexual orientation , then surely there should be a dedicated forum for discussing matters pertaining to heterosexual orientation , (and i dont think the barladies forum is that forum ...... that forum is mostly pornographic in content and aimed at hardcore or pseudo- hardcore priapists , or hardcore pseudo-priapists )

the pink pages manage to discuss their topics in an adult and responsible manner and there is no reason to doubt that a heterosexual forum would be any different.

Edited April 18, 2005 by taxexile

[bkkmadness]

Guys, the rules have been changed. If you read the forum rules, you will know that discussions of that matter are to be done -----> here <----- That is all.

Continuing to abuse moderators will not change the attitude of admin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've read the forum rules but don't understand one of them, that's why I asked the question. If somebody could please let me know?

Taxexile, no offense, but your question is for another topic, let's not confuse the issue here and give the mods a chance to close this thread down and avoid the real question, which is what seems to be happening?

Edited April 18, 2005 by bkkmadness

[gburns57au]

I believe that there is a lot of inconsistency on the site, While I think that the mods do a pretty good job, they do make a rod for their own backs from time to time. The forum rules leave themselves open to interpretation in many ways.

While people may ask for clarification on the rules, for a moderator to make such a clarification, he is making another rod for his back....

IMHO.... the rules do need looking at and need to be a little bit more liberal. For instance if I want to talk about my GF and how I met her I am breaking an unwritten rule. And yet a gay guy can do the same thing with immunity. There is a lot of flaming which is against the written rules but it is still allowed to continue. etc...etc...etc...

I have been informed that no single moderator makes a descision to delete a topic, it is usually the result of a discussion of at least 2 of them.

As I said I think the mods do pretty well....it is a hard job to moderate when the rules are full of grey areas....but do you want hard and fast rules...with no lateral movement....break the rules once and you are delisted...

[The Gentleman Scamp]

I had no idea this would happen and was obviously quite dissapointed as I had though it was an interesting post - my first for quite a while and I thought it ad been closed very suddenly on the mere assumption that it would be trolled or that I had started the post to cause controversy so Wolfie I apologise if my PM's were a little strong.

George as suggested I post it in another forum I have never heard of.

I am a member/moderator of another forum where it could be posted but I now feel that by doing so, this will be seen as a bitter or rebelious move on my part which it isn't at all and I hope that it is clearly understood as it is the obvious alternative forum in which to try it out.

This has been an unpleasant surprise but hasn't soiled my view or enthusiasm for ThaiVisa in any way so let's let it lie and in future I'll chose my subects with a little more forsight.

Cheers.

[siamesekitty]

Hi, just wanted to say that there were a couple of threads I was looking forward to having thoughtful discussions on too.

[Thomas_Merton]

Surely the by its very nature, moderation of TV, will be sometimes stringent other times arbitrary, perhaps inconsistent but often tinged with moderation and always thankless.

Just look at this thread; according to the rules:

Discussion of moderation issues, actions or moderation policies concerning individual cases are not allowed in the forums. Such comments should be directed to a moderator or administrator, and not discussed on the forum.

..it should have been closed ages ago.

But, as one of the contributors has said on another occasion, this is both the fascination and irritation of LOS.

So why complain?

[thai_norman]

Forums, as in real life, it seems that gays have more rights than the hetrosexual majority. sad really, and unfair, but thats life.

[thai_norman]

the gay forum in itself is a forum for discussing topics relating to sexual orientation.

if there is a dedicated forum for discussing matters pertaining to homosexual orientation , then surely there should be a dedicated forum for discussing matters pertaining to heterosexual orientation , (and i dont think the barladies forum is that forum ...... that forum is mostly pornographic in content and aimed at hardcore or pseudo- hardcore priapists , or hardcore pseudo-priapists )

the pink pages manage to discuss their topics in an adult and responsible manner and there is no reason to doubt that a heterosexual forum would be any different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A great post, gays are allowed to discuss, erm, their erm stuff, but hetroes aint.

[bkkmadness]

Surely the by its very nature, moderation of TV, will be sometimes stringent other times arbitrary, perhaps inconsistent but often tinged with moderation and always thankless.

Just look at this thread; according to the rules:

Discussion of moderation issues, actions or moderation policies concerning individual cases are not allowed in the forums. Such comments should be directed to a moderator or administrator, and not discussed on the forum.

..it should have been closed ages ago.

But, as one of the contributors has said on another occasion, this is both the fascination and irritation of LOS.

So why complain?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This topic should not have been closed ages ago as it is not mean't for discussing that individual case or an individual moderator, the Scamp just took it off topic there.

I'm concerned over clarification of a rule so I can post future topics with this is mind, as I wouldn't want to risk them closed down wasting my time for what I would consider no apparent reason.

Those Scamps thread did start me thinking on this, I say again this is not what the topic is about, I posted the original question quite cleary, it would only take a mod/admin a few mins to reply and clear this up for a respectful and sincere member who I hope contributes to this forum (that's me by the way ).

To avoid any further confusion, here's the question again -

"I just would like an explanation of "sexually orientated" discussion that is not allowed.

I always took it to mean, not talk about the shag you had last night, or not start mentioning the prices of girls at this bar or another?

Can a mod please give us a clear definition on what is considered sexually orientated discussion please so we have a little clarity on this?

ie. a clear list of what we are allowed to mention and what we are not?"

Edited April 18, 2005 by bkkmadness

[cdnvic]

Bkk, the explanation is this;

Every moderator is different, and will make slightly different judgements on every post. This isn't because we're inconsistant, it's because we're humans, not robots. Every poster, and reader is the same too. It will not always be what you consider fair, but when you try to balance the needs and tastes of everyone here, the sponsors, the hosts, etc, you will wind up upsetting someone along the line.

We aren't going to make it so that we always moderate to the letter of the law, its not a stalinist state here. Gays do not have more rights here than others, nor do they in most countries offline. You will sometimes disagree with topics closing or posts being deleted, but really, it's hardly a big deal is it?

Bkkmadness I suggest you invite a thousand people over to your place, try to keep the place from getting trashed, and when you have found a way to make every single one of them happy at once then most of us mods will gladly pay to attend your seminars in perfect moderation. Since you are the first one in here to complain usually, (I mean, I went to bed during this, and woke up this morning and you were still going on about it), you must put alot of thought into these things even though everyone else has moved on. Therefore I urge you to do this experiment and then get back to us. I really want to know how its done so that I and the others can make you happy all the time.

Or if thats too difficult logisticly you can just get your head wrapped around the fact that its just a topic in a forum and get over it.

cv

[bkkmadness]

Bkk, the explanation is this;

Every moderator is different, and will make slightly different judgements on every post. This isn't because we're inconsistant, it's because we're humans, not robots. Every poster, and reader is the same too. It will not always be what you consider fair, but when you try to balance the needs and tastes of everyone here, the sponsors, the hosts, etc, you will wind up upsetting someone along the line.

We aren't going to make it so that we always moderate to the letter of the law, its not a stalinist state here. Gays do not have more rights here than others, nor do they in most countries offline. You will sometimes disagree with topics closing or posts being deleted, but really, it's hardly a big deal is it?

Bkkmadness I suggest you invite a thousand people over to your place, try to keep the place from getting trashed, and when you have found a way to make every single one of them happy at once then most of us mods will gladly pay to attend your seminars in perfect moderation. Since you are the first one in here to complain usually, (I mean, I went to bed during this, and woke up this morning and you were still going on about it), you must put alot of thought into these things even though everyone else has moved on. Therefore I urge you to do this experiment and then get back to us. I really want to know how its done so that I and the others can make you happy all the time.

Or if thats too difficult logisticly you can just get your head wrapped around the fact that its just a topic in a forum and get over it.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was talking about perfect moderation at cdnvic, and your post was suitably patronising. I was asking a simple question, that was obviously not so simple for you.

It didn't take a lot of thought to make a simple question.

If you cannot answer the original question and your only aim is to belittle me then your contribution to this thread is worthless.

I understand moderation is very difficult on a forum as large and busy as this, explaining the rules of the forum are not.

It's not a big deal, its a question, so don't get worked up or upset about it or make ridiculous comments about me inviting a 1000 people to my house , just answer it if you can please.

Thanks

Edited April 18, 2005 by bkkmadness

[cdnvic]

And Scampy, sorry this one didn't make it but those of your topics that make it through the filters are usually quite interesting so I look forward to the next.

Cheers

cv

[bkkmadness]

Since you are the first one in here to complain usually

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Though not quite the correct statement I will agree that I do offer constructive criticism from time to time, and I hope that thaivisa does not consider itself above the occaisional criticsim by it's members who truly help make this the best expat forum on Thailand to date.

I offer criticism as I feel that it may help to improve this already great forum, and I hope that my criticism is small perecentage of my otherwise useful contributions, chilled out non flaming attitude, and some ok topics that I have started.

I hope that by offering the occaisional criticism I will not be penalised as a trouble making member which I certainly am not, and my quest for knowledge on this subject is treated with the respect and courtesy it deserves.

But this topic was not a criticism of moderation ruling but merely a question about forum rules, please do not be mistaken about that.

Best regards,

bkkmadness

[Darknight]

HMMM, Always the same teasing questions

For sexual related posts we have an agreement with Barladies.com. Please use their forum.

For Gay posts , moderator of that specific forum has strict orders not to allow sexual references in posts.

The rules are clear enough as you well know Bkkmadness.

Wolfie was correct in closing the thread but i can understand scampy didn't know the barladies agreement yet.

Barladies.com is dedicate is a sexual forum for all walks of life , so please use that one.

Case CLosed.

Darknight.

[tuky]

Might I just add BKKmadness, that whilst this thread has been active, us admin/mods have been discussing it in our private forum.

We might not be able to get back to you as quickly as you like, that is because we take your offerings seriously.

I think the most important point we have come up with over this is that members, such as yourself should use the PM system to air your concerns as per the forum rules.

We appreciate your help in these matters.