Two Foreigners Arrested For Heroin Possession

[bobbin]

When you've walked in the shoes of myself or one of my collegues, lets see where you pathetic lets legalise it all rubbish theories stand then, until then flame me all you like, afterall its the only thing you know how to do.

You think you can just legalise all these illicit drugs and not have any more problems, change the legislation and everything else just disappears, magical.

Hey neverdie

Does the above statement mean you are a present or former policeman? The Law Enforcement Against Prohibition organization has , I believe, 15,000+ members. They also have been on the front lines and are looking for a different approach.

As to what might disappear ? Let me list a few things...

1 Drug Cartels

2 Murders over drug turf

3 Young people rotting in foreign and domestic prisons

4 An ever expanding prison system

5 A funding source for terrorists

6 The risk that countries like Mexico will implode and export drug violence into the USA

7 Etc, etc.......

If by some chance you meant you are related to emergency medical services, then you know that most accidents involve liquor.

Or, by colleagues, you meant the other guys at the water cooler?

[aras]

Put these people out of business and legalise it.

I suppose we should just legalise everything that is illegal then . It doesnt take long for the sillyness to start, does it.

Silly , you are silly. I live in holland. Drugs in small quantities is tolerated. Very little people are addicted here. We have many many coffeeshops where you go in buy smoke weed just like a bar, and well again way less cannabis here than the neighbouring countries etc.

So what is the problem with legalizing it ha?

pro's of legalizing.

1- no organized crime

2- no or less drug related petty crime violence- theft-murders-muggings etc

3- can control the use/quality. you know the addicted you might be able to help the rehab ( in some cases the government gives them drugs for free like methadone is a old custom which keeps the addicted out of crime) you can help them with mental treatments some jobs etc etc- and yes in holland this works out in many cases. We have very little drug related violence

4 It will be less cool for the youth much les interesting ( smoking weed is a cool thing in us etc it is not in holland) heroine is death here and crack has never took off here only cocaine is used mostly in some paries mostly by recreational users etc

But we are screwed because idiot americans and french two counties full of crappy people are forcing holland to restrict their policies. Holland doesnt like americans giving holland the name of the county full of drugs and prostitution haha I yo want prostitution in europe you shouldnt come tp amsterdan because there is very small numbers of ladies here ( they are in the open though and hence it is a touristic atraction which is going down the drain because it gives amsterdam a bad name the government says ) you better go to germany for prostitutes like many dutch people do, there are bigger more and cheaper lol

Silly ha, use your

brains not only the crap you hear from a bunch of criminal child molesting foxnews.....

[aras]

It remains a mystery to me, what kind of a idote brings heroine to thailand or have anything to do with drugs in thailand. Go to jail the rest of your life in thailand for a bit money. F....g retards.

[geriatrickid]

Ever notice that a thread like this brings out the "legalize it" and the problems will go away crowd? They are also the first group that will line up to crusade against the various mafias in Thailand like the tuk tuks. Know where I'm going now? If the drug trade was legalized, we'd see the same situation as what is in place with the tuk tuks and jet skis etc. Oh sure, they will say, sell it in approved government shops, control it etc. Hello? Earth to space people. TIT. Do you think that such a program could be run in Thailand? They can't even run a proper traffic enforcement police operation without there being extortion in some areas. So please, how about thinking such positions through before saying if you could wave your little magical faerie wands and make it so. This is the real world and I don't want to have to walk through war zones with competing tuk tuk driver types shooting it out as they compete for drug peddling turf.

Threads like this bring out all sorts of "crowds", including those who try to raise red herrings to divert the debate by about 180 degrees.

Thinking an issue through certainly has advantages. For example, why would there be "war zones" and "drug peddling turf" (what nice hyperbole) if the stuff could be obtained cheaply and safely in a controlled manner?

Why is it a red herring to deal with the specifics? Phuket cannot even control its tuk tuks or the jetskis on the beach and you think the drug trade would operate without a problem? These drug trafficers were arrested in Thailand. I don't give a rat's ass about the Nederlands, UK, or Timbuctoo. What I want to know is how people like you expect the drug trade to run without worse problems here in Thailand. Yes, that's right, worse problems.

Look at simple legal business operations here. Piss off the wrong special interests and you end up dead. Try and operate a taxi in someone's zone and there are beatings to be had. Everyone has a story about being caught in the middle of feuding drivers. Maybe you should look at what happened in the past when opium was legal. Can you recall something called the Opium Wars when hi-so British and French trading houses went to war with China over the drug trade, with the foreigners trying to force the opium on the Chinese. I don't think anyone in this part of the world needs any lessons on mass access to heroin and what it does to a nation. Read the history and then come and tell the locals that you are going to enlighten them on how to manage an dangerous addictive chemical.

So, wave your faerie wand and enlighten everyone on how a legal drug trade would operate in Thailand.

Considering the fact that Thailand cannot even police its current legitimate drug trade, the pharmaceutical industry, with all the bogus fake stuff in circulation, you are going to have to sprinkle alot of pixie dust to make the magical dream come true. Controlled manner? Yea sure, like the way fire codes are enforced? Or maybe building codes?

On a more pragmatic basis, what happens if products like heroin is legalised here and some poor sap ends up transiting Dubai with residue in his bag? Are you going to go visit that person on death row? How about the hassles that the tens of thousands of legitimate visitors would face upon return to their homelands? Oh wait, those countries would have to look the other way.

Are you going to come and clean the puke, feces and vomit away from the front stoops of the locals? What happens when the country is innundated with junkies? Do you think legalization will stop people on their downward spiral? When heroin takes over you care about nothing except getting another fix. You crap where you are, you piss where you are and you don't care. You stop functioning, no matter how easily available or cheap the product. Who is supposed to deal with the ODs and and the corpses? Or is that aspect going to miraculously go away because it's legal? How about we put a state sanctioned shooting gallery next to your home? You want it legalized, then come up with a plan that will deal with the impact. It's your project. Go and sell it to the people that will have to live near the junkies.

[jackspratt]

Ever notice that a thread like this brings out the "legalize it" and the problems will go away crowd? They are also the first group that will line up to crusade against the various mafias in Thailand like the tuk tuks. Know where I'm going now? If the drug trade was legalized, we'd see the same situation as what is in place with the tuk tuks and jet skis etc. Oh sure, they will say, sell it in approved government shops, control it etc. Hello? Earth to space people. TIT. Do you think that such a program could be run in Thailand? They can't even run a proper traffic enforcement police operation without there being extortion in some areas. So please, how about thinking such positions through before saying if you could wave your little magical faerie wands and make it so. This is the real world and I don't want to have to walk through war zones with competing tuk tuk driver types shooting it out as they compete for drug peddling turf.

Threads like this bring out all sorts of "crowds", including those who try to raise red herrings to divert the debate by about 180 degrees.

Thinking an issue through certainly has advantages. For example, why would there be "war zones" and "drug peddling turf" (what nice hyperbole) if the stuff could be obtained cheaply and safely in a controlled manner?

Why is it a red herring to deal with the specifics? Phuket cannot even control its tuk tuks or the jetskis on the beach and you think the drug trade would operate without a problem? These drug trafficers were arrested in Thailand. I don't give a rat's ass about the Nederlands, UK, or Timbuctoo. What I want to know is how people like you expect the drug trade to run without worse problems here in Thailand. Yes, that's right, worse problems.

Look at simple legal business operations here. Piss off the wrong special interests and you end up dead. Try and operate a taxi in someone's zone and there are beatings to be had. Everyone has a story about being caught in the middle of feuding drivers. Maybe you should look at what happened in the past when opium was legal. Can you recall something called the Opium Wars when hi-so British and French trading houses went to war with China over the drug trade, with the foreigners trying to force the opium on the Chinese. I don't think anyone in this part of the world needs any lessons on mass access to heroin and what it does to a nation. Read the history and then come and tell the locals that you are going to enlighten them on how to manage an dangerous addictive chemical.

So, wave your faerie wand and enlighten everyone on how a legal drug trade would operate in Thailand.

Considering the fact that Thailand cannot even police its current legitimate drug trade, the pharmaceutical industry, with all the bogus fake stuff in circulation, you are going to have to sprinkle alot of pixie dust to make the magical dream come true. Controlled manner? Yea sure, like the way fire codes are enforced? Or maybe building codes?

On a more pragmatic basis, what happens if products like heroin is legalised here and some poor sap ends up transiting Dubai with residue in his bag? Are you going to go visit that person on death row? How about the hassles that the tens of thousands of legitimate visitors would face upon return to their homelands? Oh wait, those countries would have to look the other way.

Are you going to come and clean the puke, feces and vomit away from the front stoops of the locals? What happens when the country is innundated with junkies? Do you think legalization will stop people on their downward spiral? When heroin takes over you care about nothing except getting another fix. You crap where you are, you piss where you are and you don't care. You stop functioning, no matter how easily available or cheap the product. Who is supposed to deal with the ODs and and the corpses? Or is that aspect going to miraculously go away because it's legal? How about we put a state sanctioned shooting gallery next to your home? You want it legalized, then come up with a plan that will deal with the impact. It's your project. Go and sell it to the people that will have to live near the junkies.

Oh dear!

From red herrings in the previous post to wildly inaccurate stereotypes in this one.

[neverdie]

I can see Jackspratt has attended his pro-drug antil law enforcement forum and called for backup......the pro drugs out with regulation will swamp this place and send torrents or BS about how good it would be to legalise everything.....what a great society, "Hey kids, if your good this afternoon, mommy will stop by 7eleven and pick up some crack cocaine and heroine for desert tonight" .

[TAWP]

When you've walked in the shoes of myself or one of my collegues, lets see where you pathetic lets legalise it all rubbish theories stand then, until then flame me all you like, afterall its the only thing you know how to do.

Why do you always confuse yourself to think that any proposition regarding legalization in any way means your anecdotal evidence doing your parking house-guard-tour is applicable as how the change would impact people?

The point of the change is that there would be a CHANGE...not more of the same. You know, kinda how like the recall of the prohibition ended a lot of the problems of that era that grew up from it?

The fact is that you have no idea how a legalization would affect you. You think you have seen a sneak preview, but you have not. You are fumbling in the dark, making wild guesses. If you wanna say that we are doing the same thing, than fear deal. But don't pretend that you know more. And what we can clearly see from the past 90 years is that hunting casual drug-users as hardcore criminals doesn't work. How many times do you smack your head in the wall before you try to walk around it instead?

[neverdie]

You think you have seen a sneak preview, but you have not. You are fumbling in the dark, making wild guesses.

And what we can clearly see from the past 90 years is that hunting casual drug-users as hardcore criminals doesn't work.

TAWP,

Of course, I should of known, you know better, having seen the real sneak preview and all that, I guess the view is good in that ivory tower of yours .

I'm fumbling in the dark, making wild guesses.....apparently not unlike those that want to legislate the devil, these are people who know better .

And what I see from the past 90 years is that we have allowed doo-gooders and fuzzy little cuddly warm people to water down legislation that should be alot harder than it presently is. These watered down laws and all these wish washy ways have effectively got law enforcement around the world attempting to deal with the problem with one hand tied behind their backs. Is it any wonder there are the problems that exist today. Theres no point trying to tackle a problem half heartedly, you never win that way. (Surely you would have to agree you would have half of whats before you today if you had only tried or were regulated to only achieve a portion of what you have?).

Anyway, I should of known on a forum of so many armchair experts, most of which have never probably even seen a drug fuelled violent offender and the various flipant drug users that it would be impossible to argue otherwise.....go ahead legalise drugs, won't really effect me now & where it does effect me I will simply deal with it on my own terms, afterall if we allow drugs & all the rubbish that goes along with that, then why legistlate against anything.

Lets just do away with Laws, Police, Courts & Corrective Services and have a free for all....I can take care at my end, I hope your up to the job at yours.

[neverdie]

FACT:

Crime, violence and drug use go hand in hand. Six times as many homicides are committed by people under the influence of drugs, as by those who are looking for money to buy drugs. Most drug crimes aren’t committed by people trying to pay for drugs; they’re committed by people on drugs

[neverdie]

The U.S. government began the Drug Use Forecasting (DUF) program in 1987 to collect information on drug use among urban arrestees. In 1997, the National Institute of Justice expanded and reengineered the DUF study and renamed it the Arrestee Drug Abuse Monitoring (ADAM) program. ADAM is a network of 34 research sites in select U.S. cities.

DUF research indicates that:

* Frequent use of hard drugs is one of the strongest indicators of a criminal career.

• Offenders who use drugs are among the most serious and active criminals, engaging in both property and violent crime.
  
  
• Early and persistent use of cocaine or heroin in the juvenile years is an indicator of serious, persistent criminal behavior in adulthood.
  
  
• Those arrested who are drug users are more likely than those not using drugs to be rearrested on pretrial release or fail to appear at trial.
  
  

[neverdie]

Detective superintendent Eva Brännmark from the Swedish National Police Board, in a speech given to Drug Free Australia’s first international conference on illicit drug use, said:

The police have been able to solve other crimes, e.g. burglaries, thefts and robberies, by questioning people arrested for using drugs. Some even provide information about people who are selling drugs, and the police have seized large amounts of drugs as a result of information from people brought in for a urine test. Many interrogations of drug abusers have also resulted in search warrants and the recovery of stolen property.

STRANGE ISNT IT?

[jackspratt]

Ya just don't get it, do you nd.

IMO, and based on my experience, the drugs (in the vast majority of cases esp. cocaine and heroin) are not the problem, it is the criminalisation around them that inevitably leads to crime.

Please post a source for your FACT.

Edited December 22, 2009 by jackspratt

[bobbin]

Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees!

When drugs are illegal, only "criminals" will have drugs! The logic is pretty straightforward.

As for the police having to deal with the problem with one hand tied behind their back, would you opt for the Communist Chinese approach (In their early days. Their approach these days is pretty much the same as other nations. Containment in the never-ending war.) and shoot all the users? Your fellow citizens by the way. Who needs a civil war by another name?

There are plenty of smart people out there who could work out the mechanics of legalization. The Mad Max scenario you paint is not the only option. The present system does not work. Period.

[bobbin]

neverdie

I see you use a quote of Einstein as your sig.

Did he not also say...

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[TAWP]

neverdie>> It was expected that you would fail to understand what I wrote. Or even that the problems you see now with crimes surrounding drugs in large is the EFFECT of it being illegal and controlled by mafia-organizations, instead of being quality-approved, affordable and not pushed into the darker alleys of the city where a higher amount of crimes are carried out...

[YHJB]

May they spend the rest of their days taking it in the bum at the Bankok Hilton.

Why - what harm have they ever done you?

Show some compassion.

Why show compassion to people who know by selling drugs they are killing people. Should we show compassion to gun runners? Or perhaps the poor who steal & mug people to get cash to buy drugs. Or best of all lets all have a group hug for the terrorists (from Pakistan by the way) who fund themselves from drug deals. Compassion.....eat my rectal remains.

[bobbin]

Why show compassion to people who know by selling drugs they are killing people. Should we show compassion to gun runners? Or perhaps the poor who steal & mug people to get cash to buy drugs. Or best of all lets all have a group hug for the terrorists (from Pakistan by the way) who fund themselves from drug deals. Compassion.....eat my rectal remains.

Rectal remains? Eeuuw!

Do you mean like the liquor manufacturers? Or the tobacco manufacturers? Or the armament manufacturers?

Those terrorists will be pretty hard up for funds when there is no criminal profit to be had by dealing drugs. Get it?

[ILOOKFORWORK]

In Thailand, so called "racial profiling" is probably accepted and nobody objects to its suppressing of somebody's civil rights; but then again, many things in Thailand violate civil rights and nobody complains about it..oh yeah.. except the red shirts. hehehe.

Edited December 22, 2009 by ILOOKFORWORK

[MegaRanter]

<br />I am working in Nigeria now and it amazes me that any country would allow anyone from here to enter their country without closely monitoring their activity. If Bangkok wanted to clean things up a bit, they only need to go to soi 5 and gather them up. The streets are full of Nigerians that are clearly not on vacation. This is not meant to say that every Nigerian is bad. I work with a few that are quite nice. Overall I would say that this country, Nigeria, is an absolute disaster. I am often stopped by police and greeted cheerily only to be asked for money to support their weekend activities. Thiese people only know corruption. Even the nice ones I work with have to partake in the corruption because it is everywhere here. They just simply refrain from it when they are with me. Is this racism? Maybe. I believe it is more of an admission that I don't trust anyone from this country. I even had to pay the Ambassador a $500 U.S. bribe under the table to sign my visa which was legitimate. She just wanted the cash. This was on top of the visa fees. I say this again. This place is corrupt!<br />

<br /><br /><br />

alexanderjing,

You do not sound half as bright as you might think, and I am wondering whats's your expertise or in what capacity you work in Nigeria. I can say say that there are about half a million local people with same skill, and you are just there to fill in the expat quota.

Any country or company that continues to do business in or with Nigeria does have a lot to answer for corruption, because they have already destroyed all the establishment, there is the Siemens scandal, there is a US congressman in jail, Shell and co has the country by the balls and the 'interested' west has virtually made it impossible for the best to lead that country. The oil companies of the west have by agreements of the corrupted past and present leadership made it impossible for the country to see the light of the day in the next hundred years.The country with so vast amounts of oil and gas can not get gas to power its electricity.

And the last time someone/ group made an attempt to redreaw the map and give its people a chance, the west gave its stooges planes and rockets to bomb women and children in the markets. half the reason Lennon returned his knitship or something that sounds like it.

I do not in any way or time or situation condone drug trafficking or usage ( I drink a bit myself), I hope every criminal gets a little bit more of what is due to him or her, what I am against is stereotyping, or the act of calling a whole geographical entity(read: not country) out as no gooders.FYI, its not never an ambassadors job to sign visas as you alledged.

I think if you really are not being overpaid or involved in some kind of oil bunkering or aiding our native nimcompoops to further impoverish Nigeria, you should move to Ghana next door. You told us you are paying undertable just to hang around to troll Thai forums?( google nigeriavillagesquare and tell us which ambassador you paid $500 to get a visa, we might help you get a refund)

I have lived here 15 years will for another 15, so you can bite me if I never do drugs or sell them, or even send you nice emails.

Edited December 22, 2009 by MegaRanter

[neverdie]

neverdie>> It was expected that you would fail to understand what I wrote. Or even that the problems you see now with crimes surrounding drugs in large is the EFFECT of it being illegal and controlled by mafia-organizations, instead of being quality-approved, affordable and not pushed into the darker alleys of the city where a higher amount of crimes are carried out...

Sorry drug fuelled voilence that is quality approved, your right, I just dont get it. Fortunately the 'nuts' that make the current laws will probably rule supreme over the nuts driving your campaigns.....so sad for you guys, anyway, dont let me stop you, continue with your relentless dribble about this, I doubt much is going to change in my lifetime.

[jackspratt]

neverdie>> It was expected that you would fail to understand what I wrote. Or even that the problems you see now with crimes surrounding drugs in large is the EFFECT of it being illegal and controlled by mafia-organizations, instead of being quality-approved, affordable and not pushed into the darker alleys of the city where a higher amount of crimes are carried out...

Sorry drug fuelled voilence that is quality approved, your right, I just dont get it. Fortunately the 'nuts' that make the current laws will probably rule supreme over the nuts driving your campaigns.....so sad for you guys, anyway, dont let me stop you, continue with your relentless dribble about this, I doubt much is going to change in my lifetime.

So you continue to prove Einstein right at two levels - both your own signature, and bobbins earlier post quoting Einstein:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[neverdie]

^Jack, I actually thought the second one applied to you, more than me. Also, if you thought your answers were so right, wouldnt all the worlds law makers agree and change these laws, of course you will come up with some far fetched excuses for them not doing so......anyway, have your little dreams boys, they will most likely only ever end up being dreams, in the meantime be careful with you drug binged ways or you might end up in the slammer, dam_n shame that would be.

Sorry, you like drugs and druggies and supporting the worlds losers, I dislike it, as do most countries and their laws, you need to get over that, its that simple.

[geriatrickid]

I am still waiting for an explanation of how the bureaucratic mess organization would work in Thailand once drugs were legalized.

Will it be modeled after the building code enforcement department? Will the BiB oversee it? Once the thousands of foreign drug users and addicts come to Thailand, will any of the legalize it crowd be organizing groups to help remove the carcasses and render financial assistance to those that tumble into the pit of addiction, or will they just tuttut and avoid the walking skeletons? How does the legalize crowd intend to deal with the resultant mess once junkies' residences turn into filthy holes as basic hygiene and cleanliness is neglected as the addiction takes hold? I would also like an explanation of how the legalized use of heroin will be sold to the majority of Thais that do not agree. Will their views simply be discounted in favour of the enlightened foreigners? In that regard, it didn't seem to work during the era when opium was cheap, readily available and forced upon asians by the Europeans. Will the once great foreign trading houses be able to come and sell their goods? To be consistent with those that are into free market positions, it would be an unfair trade practice to exclude foreign drug lords from setting up shop.

Red herring, my buttocks. How about coming into the real world before waving the faerie wands about proclaiming hypothetical scenarios as practicable. Junkies do not behave in a logical manner. Drug addiction is a selfish behaviour and the legalization does not take into account that behaviour. It assumes that everyone will comply with rules and regulations. This being Thailand, it is a most illogical proposal.

[jackspratt]

^Jack, I actually thought the second one applied to you, more than me. Also, if you thought your answers were so right, wouldnt all the worlds law makers agree and change these laws, of course you will come up with some far fetched excuses for them not doing so......anyway, have your little dreams boys, they will most likely only ever end up being dreams, in the meantime be careful with you drug binged ways or you might end up in the slammer, dam_n shame that would be.

Sorry, you like drugs and druggies and supporting the worlds losers, I dislike it, as do most countries and their laws, you need to get over that, its that simple.

I don't need to come up with excuses nd - I just look at the results to date. Have you?

And again, appropriately, your post ends up with the all telling "simple".

Edited December 22, 2009 by jackspratt

[jackspratt]

kid you make some sensible points about how it (legalisation and control) may or may not work in Thailand, then you go on with absurd comments about foreign drug lords and trading houses, and extrapolations back to 100+ years ago. Not to mention carcasses, walking skeletons, and pits of addiction. It tends to dilute the force of your arguments.

Thailand would certainly not be the ideal place to set up models that appear to to working in other places (research Switzerland and Portugal if you are interested). But at the same time, I would suggest the the drugs issue may be one of Thailand's lesser problems at the moment - certainly on a macro scale.

[neverdie]

^Jack, I actually thought the second one applied to you, more than me. Also, if you thought your answers were so right, wouldnt all the worlds law makers agree and change these laws, of course you will come up with some far fetched excuses for them not doing so......anyway, have your little dreams boys, they will most likely only ever end up being dreams, in the meantime be careful with you drug binged ways or you might end up in the slammer, dam_n shame that would be.

Sorry, you like drugs and druggies and supporting the worlds losers, I dislike it, as do most countries and their laws, you need to get over that, its that simple.

I don't need to come up with excuses nd - I just look at the results to date. Have you?

And again, appropriately, your post ends up with the all telling "simple".

Jack,

Flame me all you like, call me simple, but don't ever forget that because of people like me your community is alot safer because of the action people like me have taken over the years. You seem to have very little regard for that, FYI, I'm far from a simple person but really cant be bothered, 20 years was enough for me thanks.

As you are well aware there are millions of results from the efforts of law enforcement officers around the world when it comes to dealing with Drug related crime. What exactly do you want me to look at? i agree with you that the job has not been always effictively handled, there have been mistakes and much could be done to improve the situation, first of all the laws definately need to be addressed but in the exact opposite direction to what you are suggesting. The laws an ass, thats for sure, the community expects results but often as I said before, law enforcement officers have many hurdles to negotiate to get the results they acheive.

You seem to forget in 'your' arguement that one of societies legal drugs, alcohol causes more damage than all the other drugs combined, its legal, has it ever dawned on you that legalising illicit drugs may just increase certain problems with some of these substances. Do you also accept that we don't at the present time have the ability to quickly and efficently test for some of these substances effectively to regulate and control things like DUI (Driving under the influence - Drugs).

Are you really trying to suggest that legalising some illicit drugs will stop people from bingeing on them and becoming violent and comitting offences that relate to this sort of thing. Have you ever heard of drug induced psychosis & are you aware of all the possible effects of some of these illegal substances.

I'm guessing you have never personally faced a drug crazed idiot who is off his face on amphetamines or some of the other illicit drugs your booty of doo-gooders want to legalise.

Its certainly easy to sit on the sidelines and critise those who are attempting to make the world a better place, there will always be those arm chair experts who really have no idea.

[Moebius87]

Put these people out of business and legalise it.

I'm definitely against legalization... http://www.drugfreeworld.org/#/documentari...umentary-heroin

Any drug or form of substance abuse is bad for the persons victimized by this sickness. Any person who helps perpetuate this disease, (which does kill) is an accomplice to murder. If these allegations prove true, may they be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[bobbin]

Well so far, I think, we are having a reasonably civilized exchange of views.

neverdie's experiences in dealing with "drug fueled violence" has coloured his views, as they might mine, if I had ever experienced same. But here is the point...the law as it stands "requires" that addicts(ie heroin, meth, as there are no pot addicts) indulge in illegal acts as few would have legal incomes sufficient to pay for the artificially high prices.

Prohibition does not have a successful record. It does not work. So its your side of the argument that is waving faerie wands and hoping for successful outcomes. Indeed, it is the prohibitionists who are the fuzzy-thinking social engineers. Wanting to save everybody from themselves. Our side of the argument are the true free marketers. Individual choice and responsibility.

A free market eliminates the criminal profit, so no drug lords/cartels. No disruption of society funded by their obscene profits. Most of the social ills are a consequence of the illegality of drugs and what people do to get them, rather than the drugs themselves.

Geriatrickid is so far off on a tangent that his arguments have little credibility. Thailand is never going to be an example of doing anything right as long as it remains a feudalistic, corruption riddled society.

[mrtoad]

Some nice discussions on going in here. Usual suspects pushing the pro-legalization of drugs, generally though they have little experience of having to deal with the effects of drugs on society as it's so peacful up in those nice ivory towers.

[TAWP]

Some nice discussions on going in here.

Yes, almost, if only we could keep it based on reality and with courtesy...

Usual suspects pushing the pro-legalization of drugs, generally though they have little experience of having to deal with the effects of drugs on society as it's so peacful up in those nice ivory towers.

...and there it failed.

Ps. You and NeverDie know nothing about me or several of the other posters or our backgrounds, so please stop pretending that you do. It is just very childish. Ds.