German Tourist Killed By Hit-and-run Driver In Pattaya

[ILOOKFORWORK]

I've never heard of "zebra crossings", but I have heard of a "crosswalk".

Anyway, police were making money on people all over Bangkok last week (Thursday I believe) for not using the crosswalks and many other trivial things. Any other day you see them directing traffic and looking right at people as they walk across the streets, far from any crosswalk.

People drive crazy in Thailand, period. Accidents galore as many people probably already know. It will continue until the government does something never before seen here; that is, do it's job.

[cognos]

sorry to the family of this poor fellow..as much as we love LOS, the constant variety of these stories is more than mind boggling..its f'n atrocious..sheer insanity on a scale that is too over the top to believe sometimes..as I'm married to a Thai I'll live in Thailand 6 months of the year, but keep my house in Farangland for sure, to get away from the sheer madness

I mean this shiiit happens in the west too, but not on that scale

[bobbin]

Don't I just love Thai bashing in here, Thais this Thais that.

True there are many ruthless drivers in Bangkok, but 30 years I have born and lived here there are far more plentiful good drivers in the country, Bangkok is just a weird chaotic city.

I ask you foreigners to stop generalising from the fragment of the country that you see (especially if you spend most of your time in Sukhumvit, that's not really Thailand). It's very immature to think you know this country and everyone in it through and through, and not fair for Thailand as well.

And please don't try to connect to something else like 'Thais have no regard for anything, no education, no sense of humor, no professional skills whatsoever, no compassion and no regard for their own land. Beside ripping off people, killing others with their guns or with their trucks, they are good at absolutely nothing.' That's bit harsh isn't it? If we all were really like how could we have even survived at all until these days? Plus, saying that makes you sound more like a bitter old fool.

This accident was caused by ONE SINGLE bad driver (we don't even know if s/he's Thai), not the whole country's fault.

Who to believe?

You or my lying eyes?

[AskTheCPT]

Don't I just love Thai bashing in here, Thais this Thais that.

True there are many ruthless drivers in Bangkok, but 30 years I have born and lived here there are far more plentiful good drivers in the country, Bangkok is just a weird chaotic city.

I ask you foreigners to stop generalising from the fragment of the country that you see (especially if you spend most of your time in Sukhumvit, that's not really Thailand). It's very immature to think you know this country and everyone in it through and through, and not fair for Thailand as well.

And please don't try to connect to something else like 'Thais have no regard for anything, no education, no sense of humor, no professional skills whatsoever, no compassion and no regard for their own land. Beside ripping off people, killing others with their guns or with their trucks, they are good at absolutely nothing.' That's bit harsh isn't it? If we all were really like how could we have even survived at all until these days? Plus, saying that makes you sound more like a bitter old fool.

This accident was caused by ONE SINGLE bad driver (we don't even know if s/he's Thai), not the whole country's fault.

So you're saying Manhattan is not the real USA, London is not the real UK, Sydney is not the real Austraila... etc.?

C'mon I dont' buy that kind of poppycock

[Sisaketmike]

hope they catch the ratbag

R.I.P.

My condolences to the family and his friends. The truth is that somebody got killed, will they find the driver???

[slim]

This maybe the Land of Smiles but regrettably its populated by some of the most inconsiderate and impatient c**nts I've ever had the misfortune to come across in the 6 years I've lived here.

"Right of way" seems to be a concept way beyond the understanding of 90+% of most Thai motorist. Stopping to allow pedestrians across a road with or without zebra crossings is virtually unheard of.

I was crossing a busy road in Khon Kaen with slow moving traffic with my wife and 1 year old baby last year. We got half way across and as the traffic was virtually at a stand still I held my hand up to some retard in a darkened window 5 litre Isuzu penis substitute. Even though he could clearly see I was carrying a baby - he completely ignored me and tried to squeeze between me and the traffic coming the other way.

My wife declined the opportunity to hold our baby for 5 minutes as she knew what I was about to do.

I cant understand why they behave like this. I assume a lot of it is down to utter ignorance bearing in mind they have no driving test as such - or at least not one that has any bearing on the ability to drive.

They should start in the schools and teach road safety and road etiquette but I suppose they'd have to recruit too many non-Thais to run the courses.

[rkidlad]

Very sad indeed. It does happen all over the world, but it's much worse and less common at zebra crossings.

I remember when I arrived in Heathrow last. I stopped at the zebra crossing to let the driver go past. He stopped and looked at me funny. I remembered that in England drivers stop at zebra crossings.

When driving in Thailand it's very easy to become native. My advice is to ignore everything that drivers do here and drive like you would back home, It might take a bit longer, but may well save your life.

[Minnehaha]

I was hit by a car while in the zebra crossing with people in front of me and behind me. It could just as easily have been them. The car was progressing slowly trying to push through and I thought he would stop just as the other 2 lanes on his right and left had already done (he was in center lane). He did not. He hit me and I fell up on his hood. I was holding a 7/11 coke plastic cup full of coke and ice and I hurled it at the windscreen and the Thais all around me started laughing. I laughed too. and asked the guy to get out of the car to challenge him to a fight I was so f*cking angry and in pain from the wallop. He just sat there and I stood there for 4 or 5 minutes while all traffic started to move around he and I. Finally some Thais started to pull me to the side of the road to "resolve the situation" in a Thai way which meant all was forgiven and forgotten.

[Jigger]

Thai Driving

I received this as a forward, its funny and spot on!

It is important that all vehicles drive on the left hand side of the road. However we recognise there will be times when this is not practical or even possible hence on such occasions it is permissible to drive on the right – drivers should use their own discretion and good judgment in such cases.

The road immediately in front of your vehicle is your space and must be defended at all times and at any cost. Any other vehicle attempting to enter your space must be discouraged and if this happens speed up and try to ensure the interloper does not encroach. There are some bad people out there who simply have no sense of precedence.

When turning to the left or right it is important to signal your intention at some point in the process. Because people often change their minds about which way to turn the process of signalling is often best left until after the turn has been made just to ensure that you do not signal in error and confuse other road users.

When approaching a hazard in front of you it is best to attempt to steer around it rather than to incur costly wear and tear on the braking system. It may even be beneficial to increase your speed in such circumstances since the increased velocity of your vehicle may make the hazard go away.

It is important to position your vehicle on the road correctly and the white lines can be useful in this respect. When ever possible ensure that your vehicle straddles the white line and your hood ornament can be useful in helping you to position your vehicle correctly. On multi lane roads it is usually best to occupy the far right or so called fast lane since this will ensure that motorists behind you don’t break the law by speeding.

Black and white striped paths have been painted across many roads in city and town centres. These highly decorative road markings are for the entertainment of Foreign tourists who seem to enjoy walking on them – they require no special action on the part of the motorist.

Traffic lights are designed for your safety and have been installed to ensure a constant flow of traffic in all directions, at the same time. For the avoidance of doubt the green light means it is safe to proceed, the amber light means the red light is coming but it is still safe to proceed. The red light means that the green light will come next and it can surely only be a few seconds away so it must be safe to proceed.

When changing lanes it is advisable to execute the manoeuvre quickly so as not to inconvenience other road users. Newer cars are fitted with rear facing mirrors both inside and outside the vehicle and these are useful for checking makeup, hair you’re your general appearance – if you do not recall ever seeing these mirrors you may wish to go and examine your vehicle now. We do not consider it safe for drivers to use those mirrors whilst executing a dangerous manoeuvre such as lane change.

Motorists should exercise due care and attention at all times and avoid unnecessary distractions, particularly from other occupants of the vehicle. We recognise that there will be times however such as when your answer your mobile, have to speak with the wife/girlfriend next to you, play with the kids to keep them occupied, drink a beer, eat, have a brief nap, change the DVD etc when this will not be fully possible. At such times we ask you to be extra vigilant.

It is not possible to document all aspects of safe driving in this note because there are so many laws. Your local police have however been specially trained to understand all of the laws and they will advise you if they observe you breaking any of them

[Phil Conners]

.... in fact one black Vios increased its speed past an already dangerous velocity to beat me attempting to cross the road, and in doing so almost hit me.

from my experience .. (as driver of a car) .. stopping on a "RED Light" Zebra .. causes also other drivers (specially taxi drivers) to get quite Upset ...

using the horn and shouting on you (the idiot farang) stop the car in front of a red light ....

strange world's

The only place I've seen this happen in Thailand is when someone stops for red in the left-turning late, not being aware (or not caring) that you can turn left on red unless explicitly prohibited (such as on Pattaya Klang/2nd Road). Hugely annoying when you are waiting to turn left stuck behind someone waiting to go straight out in a left turning lane.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Phil Conners

[Brewsta]

Typical Traffic Terrorism - sadly.

Condolences and a lesson for us all to be on extra guard at night.

Nappy Hoel and Peace to the Lambs Of Slaughter in these totally unnecessary incidents.

Brewsta

[mythBuster]

Yesterday in Bangkok I twice used a zebra crossing; one of the newer ones with traffic lights. When the lights changed some of the traffic did not even bother to stop, in fact one black Vios increased its speed past an already dangerous velocity to beat me attempting to cross the road, and in doing so almost hit me.

Every time I use these crossings I am extra careful as Thai drivers have little or no regard for the pedestrian.

The problem with traffic lights and zebra's in Bangkok is that policemen seem to get them as a birthday present. Every time a policeman celebrates his birthday he seem to get either a traffic light or the keys to override the traffic lights. You can't blame the drivers in Bangkok, they have not been told in school about traffic rules, not even the traffic police seem to know them. It is like with motorcycles which always seem to overturn you not from the inside but from the outside which will turn them in a tasty red meatball if they meet a car from the opposite direction.

Traffic lights and zebra's only work when people know how to use them and that goes also for the police overruling the computer.

[shotover]

My sympathy to the family of the deceased.

In Bangkok most drivers will yield to pedestrians at marked crosswalks (assuming the driver notices the crosswalk), with the EXCEPTION of paid drivers - Taxi, bus, moto taxi drivers, etc.

I never step in fromt of a commercial vehicle assuming they will stop at marked crosswalks. They rarely yield at these crossings.

[wintermute]

I was hit by a car while in the zebra crossing with people in front of me and behind me. It could just as easily have been them. The car was progressing slowly trying to push through and I thought he would stop just as the other 2 lanes on his right and left had already done (he was in center lane). He did not. He hit me and I fell up on his hood. I was holding a 7/11 coke plastic cup full of coke and ice and I hurled it at the windscreen and the Thais all around me started laughing. I laughed too. and asked the guy to get out of the car to challenge him to a fight I was so f*cking angry and in pain from the wallop. He just sat there and I stood there for 4 or 5 minutes while all traffic started to move around he and I. Finally some Thais started to pull me to the side of the road to "resolve the situation" in a Thai way which meant all was forgiven and forgotten.

So you weren't seriously hurt but you chose to stand in the middle of the street and start threatening and raving at the guy who probably didn't understand a single word you said. That's brilliant. Maybe next time a truck will come along and finish the job.

Edited December 22, 2009 by wintermute

[Tonyzill]

I've never heard of "zebra crossings", but I have heard of a "crosswalk".

Anyway, police were making money on people all over Bangkok last week (Thursday I believe) for not using the crosswalks and many other trivial things. Any other day you see them directing traffic and looking right at people as they walk across the streets, far from any crosswalk.

People drive crazy in Thailand, period. Accidents galore as many people probably already know. It will continue until the government does something never before seen here; that is, do it's job.

ZEBRA crossing is an English or UK term for a pedestrian crossing where there are Black and White stripes marked on the road. There are a lot in Thailand however the crossung have no signs in UK they will have flashing lights on Poles and each side. The posts will also be painted in black and white bands. Pedestrians have the right of way.

[mrdome]

Traffic and water are the things to watch out for in LOS as the big killers.

RIP

[lensta]

Don't I just love Thai bashing in here, Thais this Thais that.

True there are many ruthless drivers in Bangkok, but 30 years I have born and lived here there are far more plentiful good drivers in the country, Bangkok is just a weird chaotic city.

I ask you foreigners to stop generalising from the fragment of the country that you see (especially if you spend most of your time in Sukhumvit, that's not really Thailand). It's very immature to think you know this country and everyone in it through and through, and not fair for Thailand as well.

And please don't try to connect to something else like 'Thais have no regard for anything, no education, no sense of humor, no professional skills whatsoever, no compassion and no regard for their own land. Beside ripping off people, killing others with their guns or with their trucks, they are good at absolutely nothing.' That's bit harsh isn't it? If we all were really like how could we have even survived at all until these days? Plus, saying that makes you sound more like a bitter old fool.

This accident was caused by ONE SINGLE bad driver (we don't even know if s/he's Thai), not the whole country's fault.

I have lived in Bangkok and Cha Am, travelled in Nakon Si Thammarat, Hat Yai, and Chiang Mai, Rayong. I have also lived in Australia, China, Indonesia, Hongkong and without doubt Thai drivers in general are the worst and most inconsiderate drivers that I have ever encountered.

[keyjor]

there seems to be little knowledge about what "zebra crossings" are for there is a crossing near the market near us but people will not use it as it is about 20 metres further away from the market and I have yet to see any drivers slow down or stop to allow anybody to cross the road at a zebra crossing. There are crossings at my son's school but there still has to be a policeman to guide the children acroos the road.

My sincere condolences to the family.

This kind of wreckless driving behavior is execrable and the norm in LoS. It's well past time for the authorities to act but it will never happen. The zebra stripes are obviously meaningless, shame on Thai drivers! SHAME!!!

Good one. Agree entirely,

RIP

[peter48]

my condolences to this man's family. "

Wow that's a very strong point you have made & I have some sympathy with it ; 8 years ago to this week when I married my Thai wife in the UK ..the only other farang husband present interjected my speech because at the wedding I praised the beauty and friendliness of Thailand etc., - I can't recall his comments now perhaps it was about corruption etc., But with solid experience you do really begin to see some serious weaknesses in their culture .

I think the one that struck in my visit last summer down in the Hua Hin area ...was Thais do not read. Further from Hau Hin along the posh coast near Banbury there were scores of Farang reading, books, papers or laptops along the beeches and hotel pools. It struck me you never see a Thai reading - they sit on their bums eating, gossiping and watching but never reading. They are fundamentally a semi-peasant society.

Most of the Thai girls back here in UK come for economic reasons - their plan is to amass wealth and send some of it back, they are jealous of one another, they gossip about one another ...rarely do they have true friendships. My wife and a local thai woman fell out over the fact that my wife could n't help this woman with some cooking Thai meals one day ; they have stopped talking to each other since their tiff. Separations and marital strife are very high here as its impossible to argue logically and calmly and I would say to any farang taking a Thai woman ... do not marry here! live with here yes BUT do not marry her ; keep your power because that lovey sweet smiling politeness is a Thai front- inevitably stuck in a semi suburban house in an expensive country like UK they will get painfully restless ; they will urge you to go back to Thailand after a few years and you will sink in your social position by buying some peasant place but you will have a 4 * 4 . If you must buy buy in a farang area.

The driving problem in Thailand is a symbol of its fundamental cultural problem - a lack of logic and reason and foresight.

[4u2mad]

When walking anywhere in Thailand I carry a walking stick. [...] A hard whack on the seat directly behind the rider generally does wonders!

Stick it in the front wheel, much more effective

Possibly why farangs can't own guns?

[fxe1200]

Yesterday in Bangkok I twice used a zebra crossing; one of the newer ones with traffic lights. When the lights changed some of the traffic did not even bother to stop, in fact one black Vios increased its speed past an already dangerous velocity to beat me attempting to cross the road, and in doing so almost hit me.

Every time I use these crossings I am extra careful as Thai drivers have little or no regard for the pedestrian.

I carry a police whistle (the metal type) while walking downtown Hat Yai. Using this helps to stop the traffic at the zebra crossing.

[mitrapaap]

I stopped at a crossing in Bangkok yesterday and a young couple started to cross the road, then an idiot driver came from behind and accelerated onto the wrong side of the road and passed me. He (and it was a he) was immediately followed by motorcycles passing on both sides at speed. The couple on the pedestrian crossing were so lucky, they missed death by only 2 or 3 inches, it was that close. It bothers me greatly, because if I had not stopped they would not have been placed in such peril. One more step and they would have been dead or very seriously hurt. And yet, I did the right thing. I think.

I have made similar experience and finally decided it was better not to stop. In my country you must stop when someone waits on the zebra crossing, but in Thailand I have decided it is safer for the pedestrians if you don't. Let them find their gap in the traffic, rather than to offer them security which is jeopardized by those behind you.

It is unfortunately no use to be a good example. It can even be dangerous, for others as in your example, for yourself in case the driver of the other car steps out of his car. I had a bus driver coming out with a wooden stick to hit me. Fortunately I saw it coming and the street was free, so I just drove off, taking the risk to hit him.

I used to hate the cars with dark films. Now I have dark films myself. It prevents me from agression against the stupid farang who can't drive - while it's actually them.

I like Thailand and usually Thai people, but when it comes to respect for others (and the environment) this country is a real challenge.

[BlackJack]

if any of you have witnessed getting your license at the Pattaya Branch then you will understand how Thais drive.

Imaging a gold fish brain behind the wheel of a car or a bike and then keep thinking this is a mine field not a road.

Then venture out.

The later it gets imagine that same gold fish brain with alcohol and drugs in it.

Most Thais carry some sort of a weapon and so your either brave or pretty stupid to take them on in a fist fight

Today I had a bike with a male driver a woman on the back and a kid sandwiched between them, cut me off then proceeded to weave in and out to get around the baht bus. 5 times he nearly hit my car. Then finally the woman driver started absusing me for endangering them. Go figure.

Car bigger than bike ........ mmmm

car hits bike ..... mmmm

bike falls over ..... mmmm

car does not fall over .... mmmm

people on bike get hurt .... mmmm

people in car do not get hurt ..... oh

but here car pays for stupid bike driver and damage ..... go figure

[caulfield2]

Wow that's a very strong point you have made & I have some sympathy with it ; 8 years ago to this week when I married my Thai wife in the UK ..the only other farang husband present interjected my speech because at the wedding I praised the beauty and friendliness of Thailand etc., - I can't recall his comments now perhaps it was about corruption etc., But with solid experience you do really begin to see some serious weaknesses in their culture .

I think the one that struck in my visit last summer down in the Hua Hin area ...was Thais do not read. Further from Hau Hin along the posh coast near Banbury there were scores of Farang reading, books, papers or laptops along the beeches and hotel pools. It struck me you never see a Thai reading - they sit on their bums eating, gossiping and watching but never reading. They are fundamentally a semi-peasant society.

Most of the Thai girls back here in UK come for economic reasons - their plan is to amass wealth and send some of it back, they are jealous of one another, they gossip about one another ...rarely do they have true friendships. My wife and a local thai woman fell out over the fact that my wife could n't help this woman with some cooking Thai meals one day ; they have stopped talking to each other since their tiff. Separations and marital strife are very high here as its impossible to argue logically and calmly and I would say to any farang taking a Thai woman ... do not marry here! live with here yes BUT do not marry her ; keep your power because that lovey sweet smiling politeness is a Thai front- inevitably stuck in a semi suburban house in an expensive country like UK they will get painfully restless ; they will urge you to go back to Thailand after a few years and you will sink in your social position by buying some peasant place but you will have a 4 * 4 . If you must buy buy in a farang area.

The driving problem in Thailand is a symbol of its fundamental cultural problem - a lack of logic and reason and foresight.

I think the only way I'd get married to a Thai or Filipina would be if 1) I lived in another Asian country and both of us were working or had something challenging to do in our lives, or 2) if I were 20 years older (retired), but even then I simply wouldn't build a house or do anything but rent. I certainly would leave all my assets in the US.

This year, I made a rule to only date women who can speak English pretty fluently, have a Bachelor's degree (or higher) and a job. It has saved me a lot of money and stress from having to "take care" of people you're not even sure like/love you for any reason other than your money.

My current g/f is a doctor who graduated from Chula and she makes 2.5 times what I do...in fact, I think I need to convince her family of my "worth/value" if I am every to marry her, which is kind of a change in perspective. But her parents are very anti-farang and I'm 14 years older than she is (40 to 26).

In the past, I married a Russian (and brought her to the US on a K-3/spouse visa) and the only thing that kept her from going crazy was going to university classes to finish her degree and working part-time. She would never have made it without those things...even taking care of two Labrador Retrievers wasn't enough to keep her from feeling a bit stir-crazy and depressed.

NOW, BACK TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED THREAD

Edited December 22, 2009 by sbk

[Phil Conners]

[...]

Today I had a bike with a male driver a woman on the back and a kid sandwiched between them, cut me off then proceeded to weave in and out to get around the baht bus. 5 times he nearly hit my car. Then finally the woman driver started absusing me for endangering them. Go figure.

Car bigger than bike ........ mmmm

car hits bike ..... mmmm

bike falls over ..... mmmm

car does not fall over .... mmmm

people on bike get hurt .... mmmm

people in car do not get hurt ..... oh

but here car pays for stupid bike driver and damage ..... go figure

I have the opposite experience - very often cars drive without any regard to bikes, squeezing them, blocking them, the mentality seems to be "if I have to be stuck in traffic in my car the dam_n bikes have to be stuck too!". If you had given him half a meter he could safely have negotiated past you and have been out of your hair in a few seconds.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Phil Conners

[mojaco]

<snip>

or is it that deep-seeded attitude that some have that the bigger you are, the more you can get away with it!

<snip>

I was seriously warned 20 years ago when I first visited Thailand that the "working rule of the road" is "size counts" and we pedestrians are the smallest size. I agree with that advice. Sadly true.

[robanywhere]

my condolences...

a couple of observations:

-- drivers in thailand believe they have the right-of-way at intersections and pedestrian crossings

-- traffic cops/rent-a-cops believe their job is to maintain the orderly flow of vehicles, *not* to stop the cars to let pedestrians cross (but they might be useful as a witness when you are run over)

-- try to cross with a cluster of pedestrians... cars are more likely to stop and there is safety in numbers (or at least your odds are better)

-- as a driver (like me), be careful in stopping for pedestrians (i've nearly been rear-ended several times...)

[oevna]

My observation about designated crossings in Thailand is that drivers seem to think of them as places of pedestrian traffic concentration; if one pedestrian is allowed to cross, it may open the floodgates for other pedestrians to start crossing too, blocking traffic indefinitely.

However, a pedestrian crossing at some random location in the middle of a block is a one-off delay, and probably won't be followed by others. They also tend to wait for larger gaps in traffic, since they are aware that they are breaking the law.

So as long as pedestrians are kept in terror of starting the flood of crossings, automobile traffic flow won't be delayed. My conclusion from this is that I am better off crossing at random locations of the road (or on pedestrian bridges, of course), not at designated street-level pedestrian crossings (defeating their purpose entirely).

This is not a racial judgment, but rather a criticism of law enforcement in Thailand. If drivers in any country can get away with breaking the law with relatively few consequences, it will result in rampant disregard for the law.

Of course, this doesn't excuse hit and run drivers. I'm just looking at it from a practical perspective.

[oops]

It is very sad that this man had to die.   What is even more sadistic is the fact that anyone here with a vehicle has a license to kill and the more expensive the vehicle the more careless the driver be it Thai or Farang.  For some reason the farangs seem to be worse then the Thai drivers.  I hope they find this guy and they push him out in front of a moving Tuk Tuk, then while he is still moving maybe they can throw him in front of a moving truck...!   Was that to harsh.?

This brings me back to the man who lost his wife and left with two children in Bangsare area.  The guy in the Mercedes left the scene after hitting a motorcycle and killing both  passenger and driver.  Leaving both the bodies on the street and his Mercedes he jumped into the car he was racing at the time.   Interesting enough like even though the cops know who did it and have his car the only thing the Sattahip police will tell the father that is left with the two babies and the her other three children is that the driver will come around soon and make things right....This will end up being the same way if the driver is Thai.   

The gentlemen I was speaking of needs help in selling his home so if anyone is looking please take a look at his home.  He would like to take his two children back to the UK.  You can find his property and phone number here  http://www.byownerthailand.com/index.php?p=detail_property&id=94

MY condolences go out to the German Pedestrian family.   RIP 

[phil2]

The witness could not remember the license plate of the truck

I just want to believe that so much.