Getting a second wife

[vvvnow]

Am I a wuss? Yes, no doubt... First trip to Thailand when I was 18, third woman I slept with in my life (1st in Thailand) I married, she's 10 years older. Been married 10+ years, still love her, but like a sister not a lover, and I am not gonna live 30 more years of my life with just her.

Now she has been offering a second wife for years. "When the time comes" she says, and I believe her, she has always let me fool around with support even. But the time is now. The girls I met on my last trip will not accept second wife status. I prefer intelligent types (why would they want a schmuck like me, you might ask, but then you must not be living in Thailand if you don't know the answers to that question), and they mostly will never accept second wife status.

But I can't quite take the step and hurt my wife's heart (any more than I already have) to the point of saying "I'm outta here: AMF!". She's an extraordinary woman, but the romance and lust are gone, and I am only 30.

So I am turning to this board's eternal wisdom (?) for help, since it seems to be cheaper than 100$ an hour for a therapist, and with the experience of the assembled members, will probably give me better advice anyway.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Start out on the sly....conceal what you are doing and all will be well.....the $100 bucks an hour will buy you a lot of good company and will be miles more therapeutic        Thai men keep it quiet and wives are fine about it as long as they are not made public fools of

[SeaVisionBurma]

Agreed,

There seems to exist an unspoken policy of acceptance among the Thais.  Everybody knows it happens, but nobody throws it in the wife's face.

Everything then remains at a status quo.

Aren't you the fellow who got offered the nieces?  That's an unusual story.  Let's hear more about that.  ::

OFF-TOPIC:  Someone go and pull our latest troll Baron von Scrotum-features' plug out - I refuse to post in his thread and give him more fuel.  And the fact that he's English & masquerading as a German is worse.   <deleted>.  

[tomy]

there are 2 type of people in thailand, the rich and the poor there is no in between.

50-90% intelligent types that you are looking for are the rich, and why the fuk in hel they want your sorry ass, to go abroad or become something better you said .

with the money they earn they can travel the world and be anywhere they please, and marry a man 101% better than your sorry-ass

let me correct you:  I prefer (NOT TO) intelligent types, the kind that work in a hoochies bars, maybe a GOGO dancer, better more down at the border of combodia they are plenty of the type that you looking for.

try malaysia they are muslim country, you can have 2,3,4 or what ever wife you wanted

i feel very sorry for you and your recent wife, you musta pick her up at the hoochies bar 10 years ago, and decided to marry her which she is 10 year older than you and hoping she would pamper you. i guest she got what she wanted

*(why would they want a schmuck like me, you might ask, but then you must not be living in Thailand if you don't know the answers to that question)*

final say, she got something she want, and you don't, enought say, now pay the $100 for services (therapist)

[Heng]

Agreed,

There seems to exist an unspoken policy of acceptance among the Thais.  Everybody knows it happens, but nobody throws it in the wife's face.

Everything then remains at a status quo.

It's an unspoken policy everywhere in the world.   I don't know the current figures, but I know I've seen the "XX% of couples cheat" (or so the occasional surveys say anyway) come out every few years.   Yes, believe it or not, this is called "face" and even westerners practice it.    

The general rule is "no support" for the other girl.  If you want to bang her on a per hour or per day basis, fine.   'You better not be sending her to school or buying her homes or cars, though.'   Typically this is the ideal situation.  But as per primitive male sugar daddy nature, we often break these rules and screw it up.    

[SeaVisionBurma]

But as per primitive male sugar daddy nature, we often break these rules and screw it up.

Heng, I couldn't have put it any better myself.

But I still want to see how vvvnow gets on with his nieces/video drama (see Double Trouble)

:cool:

[D80]

(why would they want a schmuck like me, you might ask, but then you must not be living in Thailand if you don't know the answers to that question)

I'm so sorry, I am Thai myself and still don't know what the answer to that question is.  Could you just come out and tell me?   ???

I have to agree with Heng on the face issue.  I find that it exist everwhere anyway, only in different forms.  For some reason, the Asian/Thai ones seem to puzzle most of the foreigners.  I don't find the way society works in the UK that much different from many aspects of Thai culture.  In the UK, I've read that something rediculous like 50% of married men/women cheat on their partners at least once during their marriage.  Only the other day, I've read an article in a reputable English newspaper about a new craze where people sign themselves up in some online lonelyheart page specifically to meet up for sex.  Most of them are in a long term relationship.  There are also dating agency here in the UK who specialise in people who are already in a serious relationahip but want a bit of extra sex on the side.  They are all extremely discrete about it (their identities were never revealed in any of these articles).  Sometimes, I was quite surprise that to save 'face' in this area, the westerners are just as bad (if not worse) as the Thais.   :cool:

So, it happens everywhere.  And it's true that in Thailand, many Thai women will put up with these sorts of things (partly because many belive that for women to be seen as 'good', they must only have one husband in their lives - rubbish really & that is dying out, thank God!).  But that doesn't mean they are happy about it.  As a Thai woman, there are many hours of counseling and drying my friends' tears over the issue.  

I have yet to come across someone who is happy to be a second wife (or even a Mia luang - first wife).  I have heard stories that some people manage to juggle between the wives.  I'm sure a happy situation all round must exist.  But I think it would be difficult to achieve.

Many Thai women look for a farang boyfriend/husband because they believe (mistakenly) that the westerners will be more faithful than Thai men.  Well, from what I have seen, heard, read, experienced, that belief is just a myth.

You mentioned that you want the intelligent type.  Well, I would think that most 'intelligent' Thai women are not likely to willingly & knowingly agree to be your second wife unless you guys come under Muslim law (i.e. you are allowed, because of your religious belief, to have more than one wife legally).  This is just my opinion... so skip it if you're not interested.  First of all, she won't be your 'legal' wife and you can't officially marry her.  She stands to lose everything if one day you decide to upgrade from her to a newer model.  If one day she is pregnent with your child and you decide to bugger off, it will be very difficult for her to get you to be responsible for the child (I know there are ways around it, DNA test, acceptance of father duty since birth and what have you but they are all not very easy to do).  A friend of mine is Mia Noi's daughter.  I know what they have been through.  A Mia Noi's status in society is not very high either.  Even when they are rich, they are still looked down upon somewhat.  It's not fair to just blame the ladies, but hey, that's the way it goes.  So, if anything happens, she is the one who will get the blame for it.  

From what I've experienced, the women who seriously stay a Mia Noi to someone are those who have been led to believe they are the only one.  When they found out later that it is not the case, they've already become attached to the men.  I have also seen many more who happily become a 'mia noi' temporarily so that she can suck the money out of the guys.  However, that borders quite closely to open end prostitution.  If that's what you want, then it shouldn't be too difficult to sort out.  But don't complain when you have problems, this is gonna cost you one way or the other.  

If your wife is not happy about it & you go behind her back, she is bound to find out one day.  That is when it will hurt her hundreds of times more.  Would you not be hurt if your wife does the same?  ???

I would rather try to sort something out within the marriage than throw my hands up in the air exclaiming 'the passion is gone' and the go look for it somewhere else.  I believe that passion is something that cannot last by itself in a relationship.  The two of you have to work at it together.  

And even so, after a certain period of time together, relationship grows to different steps anyway.  It's not necessarily going to be fun & game, shagging till dawn alll the time.  But it'll be something else valuable and passion can still exist to some level.  

If you are chasing the high level of passion now by moving on to a new person once what you used to have with your wife decreases, you will be chasing it all your life.  If there are actually more problems than that, I would look into it & re-assess the situation to see if the relationship is really going to last.  

To be absolutely honest, I'd rather split with my husband if he wants to have a Mia Noi.  My treshold towards infidelity is pretty low & I won't even tolerate my partner visiting prostitutes, let alone going for polygamy.  If he wants to do it, he can, but just not with me.

JMHO.  Hope you find the answer.

[vvvnow]

Sorry my wise-ass remark was not clear, my meaning was that even many intelligent women in Thailand are in it for the money or the lifestyle or whatever. And I am not demeaning women, I am sure men if they had such an opportunity would flock in equal numbers. If I knew I could get paid for that... well let's just say we wouldn't be having this conversation.

So some more details. Yes indeed I am the tragic hero (mentally challenged BUNYA AWN hero?) of the other post whose wife has offered one of her three nieces as a MIA NOY in order to keep me in the family. There are some creepy crawly things about going that route though, nevermind the potential timebombs in there.

After my second year of marriage, I think my wife realized that I had a wandering eye (among other body parts - good thing they're attached!), and thought that someday I might be bidding her adieu, so she offered at that time the MIA NOY option, when we move to Thailand. Of course I was all smiles for the past 10 years or so. Did I say "smiles"? It was like I used Joker Brand Products every day...

But now I have come to realize that the options I will have for the MIA NOY position (duties to include starting a family, which my wife can not have), essentially boil down to part- or full-time HA GIN girls, or else girls from her local city (outside Ganchana), or of course the niece option.

And on my last trip, I had no trouble finding the intelligent, educated, but still funloving city girls, who of course will not accept the position of MIA NOY.

I will be moving there soon and I hate every day as I drag my wife through more misery while I try to TAT SIN JAI and just do something. Seems like divorce is the only way, and yet, she is clinging to me for her dear life, and of course a good part of me wants to please her.

Is it bar girls to infinity and beyond for me? A darling field girl from the River Kwai? One of the Wyrd Sisters (nieces) with their kettle of newt eyes and and bat wings? Or do I bite the bullet and take door number 4 (divorce)? And it aint like I'm Brad Pitt or anything, just another hobo 30-something from the East Coast....

[Heng]

Many Thai women look for a farang boyfriend/husband because they believe (mistakenly) that the westerners will be more faithful than Thai men.  Well, from what I have seen, heard, read, experienced, that belief is just a myth.

The day that gals stop willing to become mia nois or go for the steal or blocked shot with a guy who is already attached, will be the day that men in Thailand (and hello, this includes falangs as well) cease their jao choo nature.   As they say, 'it takes TWO to dten lilat.'

[francois]

D80, agreed, and so real!

might be time to end this farang mith!

most of of the men (planet-wide) are not faithfull  ???

and it's a fact, how to deal with this ..?

silence may be the best way, it is, and will ever be this way, so keep it underground, there is no need to expose this more than intimate thing anywhere  ???

and may I add ... here  

we have good fun talking about what everybody know  

how many of us take a "little extra" on visa run?

"you don't go play golf honey!"    " sure not, coooome oonnnn"

is it closer enough to reality?

[Cha Minnow]

I've heard stories of women coming down with the "Lorena Bobbit" syndrome and snipping off your wee-wee, while you sleep, if they catch you in-love with another woman.

Just the other day in the news some woman went into her husband's office with a gun and shot him, his "2nd girl," and killed herself.

I'd say take the "4th Door," divorce. Cheating sucks, sucks. Oops did I say that twice? CHEATING IS LAME! Of course, I am 21 so I don't know much about divorce so good luck with that one. It seems like you have submerged yourself in a personal-#### and feel too guilty to want to end it. Guilt sucks too, but like Al Pacino said in the Devil's Advocate "Guilt is like holding a bag of bricks, all you have to do is drop it."

Just remember that if you divorce her she will most-likely not find another farang, or Thai man for that matter. I've heard several times from multiple women that they were afraid if they got too old no one would want to marry them.

Thanks for proving my golden rule: "DON'T GET MARRIED FOR A WHILE!"

[dr_Pat_Pong]

hmmmmmmmmmm at your age......why would you marry ? At least wait until you get to Thailand before you decide 4 sure

[Cha Minnow]

I've been in Thailand for 4 months, Dr.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

How legal is your visa status ?

[markt]

I've been in Thailand for 4 months, Dr.

Sorry to go off topic but that reminds me of a bloke i met in Pattaya a couple of years back.

He was a bar owner and i popped in for a quick one (beer that is).   He was telling me that he was a very popular man about town with the Brit expats,  knew most of them, played golf etc..

He was giving me advice about Ptty, he never asked if i had been before.

So i asked him if he knew a mate of mine. "No, is he new to Ptty? Because i know almost everyone" he said.    "Well he has lived here for 7 years" i said.

"Oh, i've been here for 6 months"  he mumbled.

What a character!   :laugh:

[Cha Minnow]

I'd say my visa is very legal, thanks to the help of immigration and paying 1900 baht!

It was a pain to have to show up at immigration in-order to renew my visa, but I understand that there are new security measures that have been taken to make the Thai citizens feel more safe!

So, since I just renewed my visa, I'll be here for (at least) another 90 days

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A 3 month extesion at Immigration       forgive my disbelief

[Cha Minnow]

My school says that next time I apply for an extension they will do it for a whole year! That will save my parents a lot of money, I think.

I was told that if I pay for my semester BEFORE I apply for the extension/student-visa that they would have been able to give me 6 months. At first I didn't understand why they couldn't just give me the 6 months but they said that I don't have proof of registration for this semester.

How confusing it all can be!  :: But worth it! Thank goodness my school takes care of all the mumbo-jumbo and paperwork.. not bad for 200 baht.

[D80]

Heng,

Indeed, it does take two to tango.  However, I think the situations whre the men go around collecting women's phone numbers (and more) claiming to be single need to be taken into account as well.

Most of the stories that I have experienced in Thailand and abroad seem to involve 'he said he hasn't got a girlfriend or a wife' amd the men admitting 'I told her/them I'm single and now I am in deep shit'.

 ::  

[vvvnow]

I think the real problem for me is that I am not actually living in Thailand yet. Here on the East Coast of the US, the pickin's are slim when it comes to Thai women, and everyone here knows me and my wife, ergo, I get the leavin's when it comes to extramarital flings.

My wife exhorts me to just "<deleted> around" and not take things too seriously, and that would be cool IF I had the opportunities that I do in Thailand and IF I didn't want to start a big family so badly. Although I must say I prefer to have a relationship longer than 2 hours in the sack...

As for the Bobbitt issue, with a wife that expects me to fool around, I am in no danger of gettin' the ole snipperoo.

I think the answer for me is, I just need to get the <deleted> over there with you all (or most of you all) so I can explore all 4 choices without going loopy over here. Living here is frickin expensive even with my good job, and I can never afford to retire here, nevermind health costs and lack of enjoyable sh*t to do (and I don't mean girlies and beer, I mean jeez, how many stinking movies can you go see, how many times can I go bowling or stare at the dirty FARANG girls at the beach).

As long as I am here, I will never trust a MIA NOY who lives over there who I see a couple times a year...

As long as I am here, if I get divorced now, I will likely get entangled with a hi-so rich girl over here and then never move back (they all wanna marry a FARANG and then live here forever, kinda the opposite of my plans...)

As long as I am here, my trysts with these hi-so girls are truly limited to damaged goods and money-grubbers (one asked for a BMW, another once gave me a list of gifts I should buy her!)...

So it's on on on with the job search, or bustin' my nuggets to save the necessary 8-10 million baht to be golden over there...

And dude that Devil's Advocate remark is classic, especially coming from Al Pacino's Satan character; however, and I think Brad Pitt as Tyler Durden in Fight Club had something pithy to say about it, when you've been brought up by a community of women, the guilt is so deeply ingrained that I think even Satan would have some trouble not feelin' GENG JAI about this situation... I consider myself fortunate that I don't feel like joining Hugo Weaving, Guy Pierce, and Terrence Stamp as drag queens in Priscilla Queen of the Desert...

[Heng]

Heng,

Indeed, it does take two to tango.  However, I think the situations whre the men go around collecting women's phone numbers (and more) claiming to be single need to be taken into account as well.

Most of the stories that I have experienced in Thailand and abroad seem to involve 'he said he hasn't got a girlfriend or a wife' amd the men admitting 'I told her/them I'm single and now I am in deep shit'.

 ::  

Yes, I've heard a lot of those stories too.   Again, (often, IMO) it's a man's lie vs. a woman turning a blind eye.   If the typical girl would look at a man with as much scrutiny as they inspect a shirt, blouse, or skirt before they buy it, they'd see the imperfections quite clearly.   All too often a girl is quick to put on rose colored glasses and "trick herself."

[Cha Minnow]

A 3 month extesion at Immigration       forgive my disbelief

The process was completed within 3 minutes of me entering Room #203 on the 2nd floor of the Immigration Department in Bangkok.

Me and twenty students from my school were accompanied by two University employees and were out of the Immigration Building an hour or two later. (The bottom floor was more packed than the JJ market on a sunday afternoon)

All I had to do was sign two photocopies of my passport and Visa stamp and I was on my way. I guess you learn something new every day, eh?  :cool:

I suggest trying the chicken sausages-on-a-stick on the 1st floor of Immigration. Two thumbs up! Can't beat the price! (b29)

Best Wishes,

Iced Lime Tea

[TizMe]

chicken sausages-on-a-stick

I love just about any Thai food, but I am yet to find a sausage in LOS that tastes any better than cardboard.

Can they really be that good?

Give me a good ol Aussie BBQ snag any day. Even British Pork Sausages are far superior.

[Axel]

...but I am yet to find a sausage in LOS that tastes any better than cardboard.

I am not so much into sausages, you never know what's inside.

But try BEI OTTO, Sukhumvit Soi 20, if you are in BKK.

The owner is from Black Forest in Germany and has his own butchery, bakery. In town for 20 years. Can't miss it, 50 yards from the main road on the left side.

[DaveYo]

A Very interesting topic i must say. Look you have been with someone for an extended time. It is understood that people change, and you have to be flexible and adjust to the change. This woman honestly has put up a lot of bull and the shit you have given her, you ought to be crucified. How would you feel if someone did that to you? Heck she is a lot better off than being with you. And you think being with a Thai woman will solve your problems. Think again, you might have more problems that you had back before you get your Divorce. Oh it is a wonder how your mind wonders without any direction.

This woman who is 10 years older deserves better. You now want a family, and with a family you will continue to go your wayward ways. Really now that shows me your responsibility with your roving eyes. With her offering a solution to your absent mindedness, you cannot seem to even reach a compromise within yourself.

I was married once and I wished I had a woman like yours to give me that second chance like she giving you. Unfortunately I lost a decent woman, but I also know I could not deal with her personality. It took me a long time to come to terms with that fact. So in my case it was best for us to part our ways for the sake of sanity. The second person I met and got married to is twenty times better on the other side of the spectrum. So the choice was mine to make. Have security or have real human down to earth love and respect and have a relationship that can grow. I wish I had both the security and the other, but it does not work out that way. It is one way or the other.

I pity you

Daveyo

[Payne]

I guess that Iam fortunate beccause the TG that has been my close friend for two and a half years says that she is content to have mia noi status. Sure she would rather be my legal wife, but I told her from the start that is not possible because I will never desert my number one wife, who I love and respect.

The way it works is that my number one wife seldom comes to Thailand when I am here, and if she does, the mia noi stays at home in Issan. I would never do anything to embarass my legal wife, but the mia noi unfortunately experiences some stigma from our friends and household staff.

Just to explain things a little more, I am 11 years older than my number one wife, and 44 years old than the mia noi. The number one wife is aware that I have a special friend in Thailand but it is never a topic for mutual discussion.

I might also add that it is perfectly natural for a man to desire additional sleeping partners. I just prefer to have one stable relationship outside of my legal marriage, rather than consort with a variety of bar girls and massage ladies.

[California Dave]

Payne

Just to explain things a little more, I am 11 years older than my number one wife, and 44 years old than the mia noi. The number one wife is aware that I have a special friend in Thailand but it is never a topic for mutual discussion.

So let's see. If your little "mia noi" is 20, then you must be 64. And if she's 26 then you must 70.

You disgusting pervert.

[BudZumwalt]

To M80,

Who says, "I rest my case, your honour! "

Well, I have seen a few of the ladies from Thailand, some seem almost presentable, I was wondering if your one of the some what attractive ones or not?

I will now rest my case, Bud arranged to have my most recent photo put on the web site, so perhaps we can settle this, go to the web site, click on the resume page, scroll past Bud the nicest, most polite, well manner, gentleman I ever used to be married too and then view my photo, I have finally gotten around posting it as asked by many followers of this forum. I hope everyone is now satisfied. I as well hope some the put downs will end, and you start saying constructive things about each other.

Savitri Lall

See me at ... www.zgramyachtdeliveries.com

[Jeepz]

I am guessing that California Dave is someplace on the shy side of forty. It seems to be endemic to younger folks that they think the sex drive disappears when one is around sixty. I suppose it does for a few, but for many it does not.

Now maybe its just the age difference between the guy and his mia noi, which I take to mean mistress. Would it be better if she was fortyish? Or maybe fiftyish? Well, all things being equal, if you had a choice between to two women whom you were comfortable with, one twenty something and the other forty something, where would you spend the night?

Selection of partner should be based on what makes you feel good, not on meeting the expectations of your peers or even worse, some youngster in need of a kleenex.

Ideally, a marriage is give and take, but both partners remain faithful. We all know how ideal the world we live in is. Sure, occasionally it works. And those folks are very lucky. But if that doesn't happen, then being thoughtful about your mates situation is the least you should do. It sounds like Payne does that. So my hat is off to him for being considerate. That he has a mia noi so much younger than himself, but still interested in him is something I find quite pleasing. Gives hope to us older guys.

Not that I really am hunting for some twenty something to spend my time with when I move to LOS, I am far too sedentary to keep up with someone that young, but still, the idea of it happening to *someone* pleases me to no end. So does the fact that it annoys youngsters to see it . I get the "you perv" look when I get caught eyeballing some young thing on train to work. Hey, they are still fun to look at.

My rule of thumb for (most) western women is: Under thirty they are often a pleasant eyeful, over forty and they are often well worth talking to.

Jeepz

[California Dave]

That he has a mia noi so much younger than himself, but still interested in him is something I find quite pleasing.  Gives hope to us older guys. 

You're right, I am on the (very) shy side of forty. I also agree with most of what you say.

But I still think you're a perv.